Anyone else think Ervin and Townes should be starting?

[Hogtropolis™]

Anyone else think Ervin and Townes should be starting over Welsh and Hill.  Then we could have our 5 leading scorers on the floor to start the game.

Townes - 12.1 ppg
Thomas - 10.5 ppg
Weems - 12.7 ppg
Beverley - 12.3 ppg
Ervin - 9.3 ppg

Hill is averaging 4.2 ppg and Welsh is averaging 5.0 ppg.  It just seems to me that we should be starting our 5 most dangerous players, not bringing 2 of them off the bench.

[Reservoir Hogs]

Maybe Towns, but it is nice to have a 7 footer in on D for the start - just for intimidation... Although in this game we dont need a 7' because they're tallest is 6' 8 or something.
And no dont start Ervin.  He is doing so much better coming off the bench.

[claycohog]

YES!  We can't really complain until we lose a game, but when we do look out.  Personally, I see a few glaring weaknesses.

[opineonswine]

why does this matter?  It doesn't to them.

[Hogtropolis™]

why does this matter?  It doesn't to them.

I'm not saying start them because they are bitter or anything, I am saying start them because they are the best 5.  I just don't understand why the best 5 players aren't starting.  Sooner or later a team is going to jump out to a big lead that we aren't going to be able to come back from because we weren't starting our best 5 players.  JMO.

[claycohog]

It matters when teams jump out on us time after time before 16:00 minute timeout.  Sooner or later it will cost us the game.

[Razor8]

Not neccessarily. Since were winning with the starting lineup that we are using. I think we should stick with it - its possible that Townes plays better coming off the bench than he does as a starter.

[hawghoopster]

I think whoever Pel wants to start is fine by me.  Who am I to say who should start.

[opineonswine]

I think whoever Pel wants to start is fine by me.  Who am I to say who should start.

my sentiments also.  One thing is Hill gets the tip.  Did you notice Townes started the OT v. Bama and did NOT get the tip?

[Hogtropolis™]

my sentiments also.  One thing is Hill gets the tip.  Did you notice Townes started the OT v. Bama and did NOT get the tip?

I watch that very often, and I see Hill lose the tip A LOT.  If there is a stat on where to find that, I wouldn't know where to look, but he has lost quite a few this year.

[crayola99]

It doesn't matter who starts over whom.  What matters is the total minutes played.  Why mess with Townes or Ervin when they have been productive off the bench.  Also, you need players off the bench to come in and give productive minutes.  Can't do that if all of your point producers start the game.

[aristotle]

I like Townes and Ervin coming off the bench. Means we have at least two seniors coming in with the second wave. Pel makes substitutions quickly. You watch tonight. He'll sub before the first scheduled break at 16:00. He does nearly all the time.

[WADHOG]

Townes yes, but if it were up to me, and we are all glad it isn't, Ervin wouldn't play another minute.  I'm sorry, but that is just the way I see it.  I shouldn't be nervous every time a guy touches the ball.

[Prosciutto]

Some players need to watch the game for a while, so they can settle down before hitting the floor.

Ervin has had his chances, and it seems he plays much better off the bench.

[Hogtropolis™]

Townes yes, but if it were up to me, and we are all glad it isn't, Ervin wouldn't play another minute.  I'm sorry, but that is just the way I see it.  I shouldn't be nervous every time a guy touches the ball.

Ervin is a better player than Welsh.

[chiefsfan]

Ervin is a better player than Welsh.

Start Marcus Britt then.  Ervin off the bench is just fine...   You dont always start your 5 best players.  You dont win or lose games in the first 4 minutes.   Besides, some players are just better coming off the bench

Townes doesnt play good enough defensively to warrant a starting job.   thats why we rotate offense for defense with him and Hill late

Ervin turns the ball over WAYY to much to warrant a starting job.  I doubt he would be starting for most SEC teams this year.  Heck he wouldnt even be starting at Arkansas State for petes sake

[cthog99]

it's nice having a spark coming off the bench

[heathtits]

Ervin is a better player than Welsh.

Just because he is better does not mean he is as effective or works as well with the other players. It's all about chemistry and you don't go screwing that up after 2 big SEC wins. Besides Ervin's too intense to start, he get's too excited and that is actually a plus for a player coming off the bench. If Townes continues to play the way he has been, ( defense) he will be starting sooner than you think. Defense is the only reason Pel has him on the bench in the beginning.

[heathtits]

Ervin turns the ball over WAYY to much to warrant a starting job.  I doubt he would be starting for most SEC teams this year.  Heck he wouldnt even be starting at Arkansas State for petes sake

Biggest fallacy in Razorback Basketball this year. His turnovers have actually gone way down. Check the stats, he's averaging  the same amount of TOs per game as Beverly, Thomas and Welsh. Sonny Weems leads the team at 3.3 per game. Check your facts before you join the Ervin bash wagon.

Yeah he really wouldn't be starting at Ark St? He's our 5th leading scorer on a good SEC team, leads the team in assists per game and has the third most minutes per game on the team. Oh yeah, and he hit the game winning and sealing shots in OT when NO ONE else on the team would. Yes that includes Beverly.

You would be a truly great coach for the hogs, keep up the good analysis.

[hogsailor]

Biggest fallacy in Razorback Basketball this year. His turnovers have actually gone way down. Check the stats, he's averaging  the same amount of TOs per game as Beverly, Thomas and Welsh. Sonny Weems leads the team at 3.3 per game. Check your facts before you join the Ervin bash wagon.

Yeah he really wouldn't be starting at Ark St? He's our 5th leading scorer on a good SEC team, leads the team in assists per game and has the third most minutes per game on the team. Oh yeah, and he hit the game winning and sealing shots in OT when NO ONE else on the team would. Yes that includes Beverly.

You would be a truly great coach for the hogs, keep up the good analysis.

I agree, Ervin is coming along (hell he should be there by now) but it still make me cringe every time he gets the ball and heads straight for the paint for a layup with three guys that have 8 or more inches on him blocking him out. One out of six or seven tries he'll get the points the rest he gets slammed or fouled.

I cringe every time Hill is out there...

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Hill has no business EVER being on the court.  Unless we are up by 50.

[heathtits]

Hill has no business EVER being on the court.  Unless we are up by 50.

How bout last night? You again don't know what you're talking about. 15 points from Hill, 12 in the first half. He added 9 rebs as well.  Townes was no where to be found.

[BCShogs]

How bout last night? You again don't know what you're talking about. 15 points from Hill, 12 in the first half. He added 9 rebs as well.  Townes was no where to be found.

It's the first time all year that Hill has done jack$hit. Maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

How bout last night? You again don't know what you're talking about. 15 points from Hill, 12 in the first half. He added 9 rebs as well.  Townes was no where to be found.

Funny that we LOST that ONE GAME Hill showed up in.

He is TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE, NOT D1 MATERIAL.  Sorry, it's the truth.

[PeytonManningSUCKS]

I've continually said, Hill starts for the tip-off.  The minutes are already going to Townes (besides last night's aberration).  as for Erv, I think it's probably a "settle down there fella" type move.  Inserting him into a game already in motion to calm him down a bit.

[chiefsfan]

Biggest fallacy in Razorback Basketball this year. His turnovers have actually gone way down. Check the stats, he's averaging  the same amount of TOs per game as Beverly, Thomas and Welsh. Sonny Weems leads the team at 3.3 per game. Check your facts before you join the Ervin bash wagon.

Yeah he really wouldn't be starting at Ark St? He's our 5th leading scorer on a good SEC team, leads the team in assists per game and has the third most minutes per game on the team. Oh yeah, and he hit the game winning and sealing shots in OT when NO ONE else on the team would. Yes that includes Beverly.

You would be a truly great coach for the hogs, keep up the good analysis.

Ervin would not be starting at Arkansas State.  I can personally gurantee you of that.   He would have to replace a guy averaging either 7 assists per game or a guy averaging 20 points per game to get a spot...   so this is guranteed

and before you go saying his turnovers are down, you need to go back and read the statistic I pulled up that said that he was directly responsible for at least 8 scoreless possesions per game.    He may only average 3 turnovers per game...   but missing stupid shots counts as turnovers...just not on the official statistics

As a point guard you want an asssit to turnover ratio of 1.5:1     ervins yesterday was 0.8:1

[Hogtropolis™]

As a point guard you want an asssit to turnover ratio of 1.5:1     ervins yesterday was 0.8:1

That was yesterday.  He had an off night.  Give him a break.  You said that as a point guard you want an assist to turnover ratio of 1.5:1.  On the season, Ervin is averaging 1.45:1, and last year he averaged 1.69:1.  That's right at what you are asking for and don't give me that line about his bad shot selection might as well be a turnover.  If that was the case, then tons of players across the nation would have an extremely high number of turnovers (including Charles Thomas).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15508

He's not a great point guard and no one is trying to say that he is, I am just saying that he is the best we have this year, so we might as well have him on the floor and we might as well support him too.  Next year Forston will hopefully put our PG woes behind us.

[heathtits]

It's the first time all year that Hill has done jack$hit. Maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

You guys who expect Hill to give double digit points and blocked shots per game are on a pipe dream binge. Do you not realize the simple presence down low he has? It doesn't even matter if he makes plays, the simple fact that he keeps the ball out of the paint has saved us from being blown out by MANY teams.

By you and DJ shannon's logic, without Hill on the floor we have Townes, Washington and Thomas to play D down low. That would just be phenomenal, I mean haven't you seen Mike W. destroy the pick and roll or Townes inlet pass prevention(which has gotten better)? App. State game ring a bell?He obviously needs to be on the floor or Coach P wouldn't be playing him but what the hell does he know. He lost at home to a crap team with a near full capacity crowd.

The real answer is the fact that this team wins and loses based on guard play, it's simple as that.

As for Chiefsfan, what conference does ARstate play in? Oh yeah the Sun Belt. 7 assists per game and 20 points per game are just out of this world for that conference. Besides, use spell check or learn how to spell "guranteed" before you begin to analyze basketball.

Beverly, Britt and Welsh were JUST as bad, if not worse than Ervin last night. I give Ervin the benefit because he was TRYING to make things happen rather than doing the disappearing act that Bev learned from Weems last year. Hill and Weems on the other hand were really the only bright spots, but until the last 3 minutes of the game, they weren't getting Weems the ball enough. He was hot enough last night to score 35+ easy.

If you weren't AT the game last night and are trying to tell me what is going on, well stick to your radio analysis ignorance and quit posting.

[jry04]

You guys who expect Hill to give double digit points and blocked shots per game are on a pipe dream binge. Do you not realize the simple presence down low he has? It doesn't even matter if he makes plays, the simple fact that he keeps the ball out of the paint has saved us from being blown out by MANY teams.

By you and DJ shannon's logic, without Hill on the floor we have Townes, Washington and Thomas to play D down low. That would just be phenomenal, I mean haven't you seen Mike W. destroy the pick and roll or Townes inlet pass prevention(which has gotten better)? App. State game ring a bell?He obviously needs to be on the floor or Coach P wouldn't be playing him but what the hell does he know. He lost at home to a crap team with a near full capacity crowd.

The real answer is the fact that this team wins and loses based on guard play, it's simple as that.

As for Chiefsfan, what conference does ARstate play in? Oh yeah the Sun Belt. 7 assists per game and 20 points per game are just out of this world for that conference. Besides, use spell check or learn how to spell "guranteed" before you begin to analyze basketball.

Beverly, Britt and Welsh were JUST as bad, if not worse than Ervin last night. I give Ervin the benefit because he was TRYING to make things happen rather than doing the disappearing act that Bev learned from Weems last year. Hill and Weems on the other hand were really the only bright spots, but until the last 3 minutes of the game, they weren't getting Weems the ball enough. He was hot enough last night to score 35+ easy.

If you weren't AT the game last night and are trying to tell me what is going on, well stick to your radio analysis ignorance and quit posting.

I am glad somebody gives Ervin a little more credit. He isn't as bad as some of these "knowledgeable" posters think.

[ConwayHog]

Biggest fallacy in Razorback Basketball this year. His turnovers have actually gone way down. Check the stats, he's averaging  the same amount of TOs per game as Beverly, Thomas and Welsh. Sonny Weems leads the team at 3.3 per game. Check your facts before you join the Ervin bash wagon.

Yeah he really wouldn't be starting at Ark St? He's our 5th leading scorer on a good SEC team, leads the team in assists per game and has the third most minutes per game on the team. Oh yeah, and he hit the game winning and sealing shots in OT when NO ONE else on the team would. Yes that includes Beverly.

You would be a truly great coach for the hogs, keep up the good analysis.

We wouldn't have been in overtime if he hadn't hosed things up.  Not to mention Beverly had a dislocated jaw. 

Well, aside from Welsh, none of those guys play point guard so it's really irrelevant.  It's perfectly natural to hold your point to a higher standard.  I understand your point but you aren't defending Ervin.  You're argument is that he's not as bad as the others. 

Why don't you look at his assist/turnover ratio?  Why don't you compare his stats to others in the league or around the country?  Why does the barometer have to be against his own team? 

Ervin is not a quality SEC point guard.  Period.

[3kgthog]

It's not necessarily the number of Ervin turnovers. It's when they happen. We were trying to come back against SC and he had turnovers on 2 or 3 straight possessions in crunch time. How many times will we see him drive against three guys, not draw the foul, and then miss the shot too?

Townes needs to remain on the bench after his performance on Wednesday. He does not hustle. He does not block his man out. It was his man that got a few putbacks including a tip dunk. He's also getting outrebounded by a kid half his size (Beverley). At least Hill will occassionally block a shot, get lucky with a couple of points, and dive on the floor and make an effort for a loose ball when we need it.