An odd statistic

[Biggus Piggus]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

[Razorod]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

I believe the issue is that we don't have enough quality guards on the roster. The bulk of the problems under Anderson relate to recruiting.

[Youngsta71701]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

You think you could stop Fox and Briscoe from driving to the hoop? No one in the SEC can. Maybe the country either.
Now I do believe the thing that you do is back off of them and try to make them shoot jumpers to beat you.
That's about all you can do.

[Biggus Piggus]

You think you could stop Fox and Briscoe from driving to the hoop? No one in the SEC can. Maybe the country either.
Now I do believe the thing that you do is back off of them and try to make them shoot jumpers to beat you.
That's about all you can do.

Yes! You have to make Fox shoot jump shots. He shot 10-14 from 2-pt range against Arkansas, 6-12 against Louisville. Give him layups, he will take layups all day.

Someone has to step up and stop the drive, though. Cannot let him go in without anybody standing in the way.

[lefty08]

Yes! You have to make Fox shoot jump shots. He shot 10-14 from 2-pt range against Arkansas, 6-12 against Louisville. Give him layups, he will take layups all day.

Someone has to step up and stop the drive, though. Cannot let him go in without anybody standing in the way.

The kicker with trying to stop him is foul trouble.  You may be able to stop him from getting in the lane for a half, but you will run out of players at some point in the 2nd half

[Biggus Piggus]

The kicker with trying to stop him is foul trouble.  You may be able to stop him from getting in the lane for a half, but you will run out of players at some point in the 2nd half

Yes, my guess is that had something to do with how Arkansas got run in the second half. Eventually, you get shellshocked from the onesided officiating.

[Auburn]

Foul harder.  If they're going to call for the touch foul, much less the ghost foul, make them remember it.  It doesn't have to be a nasty or egregious foul to be hard.

I HATED watching the 2nd half of KY gellies and Arkansas.  The refs simply shut down Arkansas playing defense.

Fox is a great player, best on this Kentucky team.  Fast, great vision, and very in control.  Gotta make him nervous and second guessing to slow their attack down.  (AND MAKE SHOTS on the other end, nudge Hannahs)

[Beaverfever]

I believe the issue is that we don't have enough quality guards on the roster. The bulk of the problems under Anderson relate to recruiting.

Macon and Beard looked really small against Uk.  I think CMA liked Manny's size and relative athleticism compared to the others guards.  Our guards in general were just not anywhere near good enough to beat Kentucky.  Disappointing when you consider our guards are mostly 21-22 and UK's are 18 and 19.

[hogsanity]

The problem with Manny playing so many minutes is how it hurt on offense because he is not a scoring threat at all. When he gets the ball on the perimeter, his man sags off him 7 or 8 feet because they know he is not taking a jumper from more than 6 ft. Yes, he will pick up a couple trash baskets, and maybe drive once in a blue moon, but from a guard playing 30+ mins you have t have more offense than that.

[PonderinHog]

Foul harder.  If they're going to call for the touch foul, much less the ghost foul, make them remember it.  It doesn't have to be a nasty or egregious foul to be hard.

I HATED watching the 2nd half of KY gellies and Arkansas.  The refs simply shut down Arkansas playing defense.

Fox is a great player, best on this Kentucky team.  Fast, great vision, and very in control.  Gotta make him nervous and second guessing to slow their attack down.  (AND MAKE SHOTS on the other end, nudge Hannahs)

Might as well get your money's worth.  And make it an early bird special.

[Youngsta71701]

Yes! You have to make Fox shoot jump shots. He shot 10-14 from 2-pt range against Arkansas, 6-12 against Louisville. Give him layups, he will take layups all day.

Someone has to step up and stop the drive, though. Cannot let him go in without anybody standing in the way.

Yep, once he got a head of steam he was unstoppable.

[Youngsta71701]

I believe the issue is that we don't have enough quality guards on the roster. The bulk of the problems under Anderson relate to recruiting.

Barford was killing them with his tough physical play until the weak foul calls took him out of the game. Although he was out of control that charge on Briscoe was not a charge. He waited until Barford started going up to slide underneath him. According to the rules that is a blocking foul every time.

[hogsanity]

Barford was killing them with his tough physical play

That is why he was scoring and getting to the line, he was taking it to the defense, not driving in then shooting some sort of fade away. That is how you get to the line.

[ArkansasI]

Good thread...

I think Manny needs to take the open jump shots.  A D-I guard with an open look anywhere near the arc should have the confidence to shoot the basketball.

Fox was fun to watch.  I agree that you have to push him away from the rim.  Easier said than done, but our matador defense was atrocious.  Guys trying not to foul and letting him split defenders... If they are going to call the foul, I agree we should make them count.  The kid made free throw shooting look easy, too.

I would liked to have seen Fox work harder on defense.  "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."  We didn't have an athlete or offensive set that put him in defensive chase mode.

The guy is a huge difference maker - think Texas wishes he would played for the Longhorns?

[Atlhogfan1]

Might as well get your money's worth.  And make it an early bird special.

It would just add to our reputation.  And our rep contributes to some of this.  A veteran coach like Cal (and slimey) will smartly work the officials before and during the game reminding them of our reputation. (don't mistake this for me justifying the fouls called or the amount on the Hogs) 

This game put us 288th in college basketball in fouls per game.  Only major conference programs lower are Tenn at 319 and Ok St at 350.  May be an ugly foul fest in Stillwater.  Depends on how the refs want to let it go. 

Last season we finished 309th.
14-15 = 230th which is good for us.
13-14 = 283rd
12-13 = 322nd
11-12 = 256th

Officials already have the rep in mind when officiating one of our games.  Add in a coach like Cal in their ears about the physical play and not letting the game get out of hand.  It's something we have to overcome in conference road games.


Ok St is 4th in college bask in FTA's per game.  350th in committing fouls and 4th in how many FT's they get to shoot.  See where this game could be heading?  Dreadful from a watchable standpoint. 

There's AU and Pearl at 9 in FTA's per game.  Last time we played at AU, they shot 40 FT's. 
UK's 10th in FTA's per game.
OM 19th
Tenn 29th - shot 33 FT's vs Hogs, Hogs had 32 FTA's

So not sure fouling harder helps us. 


As far as the Manny thing, don't really have a strong opinion.  I thought the near void we have at F again hurt us.  Willis was important for UK.  Hit shots and made plays in the first half when we were right with UK and helped open the game up in the second half. 

[PonderinHog]

I said early, not often.   

[Atlhogfan1]

That is why he was scoring and getting to the line, he was taking it to the defense, not driving in then shooting some sort of fade away. That is how you get to the line.

Didn't he have a couple of offensive fouls too though as part of his 5 turnovers? 

[hogsanity]

Last season we finished 309th.
14-15 = 230th which is good for us.
13-14 = 283rd
12-13 = 322nd
11-12 = 256th

Based on these numbers, has it crossed anyone's mid that maybe the Hogs just foul ALOT. I mean over that course of time we probably have had 100 different officials over that time period, and they ALL call a bunch of fouls on the Hogs. It could just be that the Hogs, with how they play D, just foul alot.

[HoopS]

Fox is quick. You don't just simply stop him if you're physically unable to. What they needed to do due to that is at the very least overplay the left side so he has to move right but that isn't a guarantee either because he seems to move well both ways. Double him and then Willis is open. Or Briscoe. Or somebody. Need to bump him as much as you can get away with and see if you can frustrate him into some fouls. And yes, cut him off when you can but realize too that that will also lead to some blocking fouls as he outquicks you to the spot. Sometimes a player is just hard to defend.

[Atlhogfan1]

Fox is quick. You don't just simply stop him if you're physically unable to. What they needed to do due to that is at the very least overplay the left side so he has to move right but that isn't a guarantee either because he seems to move well both ways. Double him and then Willis is open. Or Briscoe. Or somebody. Need to bump him as much as you can get away with and see if you can frustrate him into some fouls. And yes, cut him off when you can but realize too that that will also lead to some blocking fouls as he outquicks you to the spot. Sometimes a player is just hard to defend.

A team playing a version of the pack line defense maybe could slow down the penetration.  It would maybe mean on your offensive end leaving 2-3 out high even when a shot goes up in order to get back downcourt to set up before UK could push.  Get back, pack it in and make them shoot over.  Hope Monk is off(which he was) and make a Willis or someone off the bench beat you by shooting over you.  UK's starters were 0-9 from 3. UK also had 15 off reb which may be reduced by packing it in.  Not who we are though on either end of the court and why it is a bad matchup. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Based on these numbers, has it crossed anyone's mid that maybe the Hogs just foul ALOT. I mean over that course of time we probably have had 100 different officials over that time period, and they ALL call a bunch of fouls on the Hogs. It could just be that the Hogs, with how they play D, just foul alot.

This season Arkansas ranks 245th in college basketball for how often it put opponents on the line. Unlike past seasons, the Hogs have been getting to the line more often than their opponents do.

2011-12 - near average in opponents' free throws
2012-13 - heavy fouling
2013-14 - heavy fouling
2014-15 - only a little above average
2015-16 - heavy fouling
2016-17 - moderately above average

I know you want to claim that nothing ever changes, but it's never been true.

[hogsanity]

This season Arkansas ranks 245th in college basketball for how often it put opponents on the line. Unlike past seasons, the Hogs have been getting to the line more often than their opponents do.

2011-12 - near average in opponents' free throws
2012-13 - heavy fouling
2013-14 - heavy fouling
2014-15 - only a little above average
2015-16 - heavy fouling
2016-17 - moderately above average

I know you want to claim that nothing ever changes, but it's never been true.

I am not talking about fta's per game I was responding to the #'s ATL put up about where the Hogs have ranked in fouls per game, and it has been at least 230th every year since 2011-12.

The Hogs have done better at getting to the line because they actually have a couple guys that can take it to the rim and draw fouls, and who are causing guys to foul them when they start to drive too.

[HogFansReunited]

Based on these numbers, has it crossed anyone's mid that maybe the Hogs just foul ALOT. I mean over that course of time we probably have had 100 different officials over that time period, and they ALL call a bunch of fouls on the Hogs. It could just be that the Hogs, with how they play D, just foul alot.

Do we foul a lot?  Yes we do but you can't honestly tell me that you have watched us play and not seen a bunch of bad calls.  Yeah you can probably say this about most teams but we always seem to get shafted.

[hogsanity]

Do we foul a lot?  Yes we do but you can't honestly tell me that you have watched us play and not seen a bunch of bad calls.  Yeah you can probably say this about most teams but we always seem to get shafted.

A bad call is like when the KY guy was out of bounds when he caught the ball and made a pass while standing out of bounds. I have no idea how that baseline official missed that call. A foul call may be bad to you but not to me and vice versa. Is it a bad call when someone starts to drive and the defender puts his hand on him to slow him down? To me, no, because that is a foul, but to many hog fans it is a terrible call----when called on a hog player, but they want it on the other end every time.

If it were just this year, you could say something was up, if the Hogs had been 100th in fouls per game for the last 3 or 4 seasons, and suddenly jumped up to 285th, ok, what changed. But they Hogs have ranged 230th-300+ in that category the last 5 years, so this year is no different.

[lefty08]

A bad call is like when the KY guy was out of bounds when he caught the ball and made a pass while standing out of bounds. I have no idea how that baseline official missed that call. A foul call may be bad to you but not to me and vice versa. Is it a bad call when someone starts to drive and the defender puts his hand on him to slow him down? To me, no, because that is a foul, but to many hog fans it is a terrible call----when called on a hog player, but they want it on the other end every time.

If it were just this year, you could say something was up, if the Hogs had been 100th in fouls per game for the last 3 or 4 seasons, and suddenly jumped up to 285th, ok, what changed. But they Hogs have ranged 230th-300+ in that category the last 5 years, so this year is no different.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the Hog fans stuff, everyone in the country  noticed that Saturday night

[cableguy]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

I agree with you, we didn't lose the game because of Manny and it may point to some larger issues with the defense. Manny use to be a stopper on defense, he is no longer that in my opinion.  He is a good defender but Macon is two notches better than him because of his quickness. Manny shouldn't ever get 30 minutes in a game, especially when we got a 6'5" freshman gunslinger who's ceiling is much higher than Manny. 

[Atlhogfan1]

FTA numbers right now on the road vs opp's FTA's is a bit of an anomaly for us.

Road Opponents avg 28.6 FTA Hogs 28.8

Last season:
Road Opponents 26.3 Hogs 20.5

14-15:
Road Opp 25.8 Hogs 19.9


In BWA:
This season
Hogs 22.8 Opp 21.6

Last season
Hogs 25.9 Opp 23.3

14-15
Hogs 25.3 Opp 18.5

[Sow Lancelot]

The kicker with trying to stop him is foul trouble.  You may be able to stop him from getting in the lane for a half, but you will run out of players at some point in the 2nd half

Added to this is the fact that we are not very good at playing defense with our feet for an entire game. Bursts yes, although we did a better job with this against Tennessee.

IMO we rely too much on the expectation that if I miss the guy, someone will help. Our mentality should be to be responsible for your own man.

[Auburn]

So not sure fouling harder helps us. 

If Arkansas is going to be called for a foul, make it count.  It isn't like we'd be losing anything more.

[HoopS]

If Arkansas is going to be called for a foul, make it count.  It isn't like we'd be losing anything more.

sounds good but not realistic. They aren't trying to foul to begin with. So for them to fouls harder means to intentionally foul and we just aren't doing that. We try to disrupt without fouling but get called for ticky tacky crap. If hindsight were 20/20 just before a foul, sure, hack them.

[pigsooie1000]

I love Mike but the worst thing he does is overvalue one-sided players who are basically just average or slightly above on defense and undervalue those the other way. Watkins physical attributes limit him from ever being a great defender bc he can really only guard a small section of players as he's not quick enough to guard PG or big enough to guard forwards. his offense has improved a lot but he can't take a shot outside 10 feet, when he's out there there are often 3 players who we don't want shooting which kills our offense. Jones not at least getting 8-10 minute run-outs every game is pretty much indefensible at this point to me

[FineAsSwine]

Do we foul a lot?  Yes we do but you can't honestly tell me that you have watched us play and not seen a bunch of bad calls.  Yeah you can probably say this about most teams but we always seem to get shafted.

I think you just played the Razorback card.

[hogwood]

I believe the issue is that we don't have enough quality guards on the roster. The bulk of the problems under Anderson relate to recruiting.

We need a wing that can be an offensive threat and play hard-nosed defense. This is the position that Manny finds himself trying to play a lot of times, but just can't.

[Biggus Piggus]

We need a wing that can be an offensive threat and play hard-nosed defense. This is the position that Manny finds himself trying to play a lot of times, but just can't.

Yes. Agree with that.

[cableguy]

I love Mike but the worst thing he does is overvalue one-sided players who are basically just average or slightly above on defense and undervalue those the other way. Watkins physical attributes limit him from ever being a great defender bc he can really only guard a small section of players as he's not quick enough to guard PG or big enough to guard forwards. his offense has improved a lot but he can't take a shot outside 10 feet, when he's out there there are often 3 players who we don't want shooting which kills our offense. Jones not at least getting 8-10 minute run-outs every game is pretty much indefensible at this point to me

I feel the same way. I got torch by Hogville the other night for basically saying the same thing.

[hogsanity]

I feel the same way. I got torch by Hogville the other night for basically saying the same thing.

of course you did, you dared question the great and powerful Mike Anderson.

[BRHogfan]

Okay, so I have trouble coming up with stats for college basketball, but realgm is a free resource and they supply Offensive and Defensive ratings for the players based on number of points that player produces and gives up per 100 possessions.

Watkins has the highest offensive rating on the team and is fourth in defensive rating behind Kingsley, Thompson and Bailey.

Based on the Stats, our best players strictly from a +/- perspective that are major contributors. 

Watkins (127.3 and 98.6) - 28.7
Thompson (120.2 and 94.3) - 25.9
Macon (126.1 and 101.5) - 24.6
Beard (121.7 and 104.5) - 17.2
Kingsley (107.7 and 93.6) - 14.1
Thomas (115 and 101.4) - 13.6
Hannahs (118.5 and 107.5) - 11

We average 113.2 Offensive rating as a team.  Kingsley, Barford, Bailey, and Cook fall under that line.
We average 100.2 Defensive rating as a team.  Macon, Hannahs, Beard, Barford, Thomas, and Cook fall over that line.

Only Bailey has a net negative effect, and Barford is practically neutral. 

In our 6 games against opponents who are over .500, the order of best players goes Macon, Watkins, Beard, Thompson.  Hannahs and Barford both join Bailey with a negative rating.

[azhog10]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

Transition defense was the problem against Kentucky in the second half. It didn't help that officials were letting certain play happen, but we attributed to most of it. We can't have blocked shots, long rebounds and turnovers above the free throw line. Add that to our transition defense not stopping the ball and Fox able to get the ball to the rim for dunks and layups and you get the blowout that happened in the second half.

[azhog10]

Added to this is the fact that we are not very good at playing defense with our feet for an entire game. Bursts yes, although we did a better job with this against Tennessee.

IMO we rely too much on the expectation that if I miss the guy, someone will help. Our mentality should be to be responsible for your own man.

I think the problem is quite the opposite. If we expected our help defense to be there if we get beat then our help defense would be much better. Too often there is NO help defense and I believe that is because we expect to be able to guard anyone 30 feet from the rim. I would love to see us loosen up the pressure off the ball, and be in a more helpside role than we currently are.

[hogman99]

Based on these numbers, has it crossed anyone's mid that maybe the Hogs just foul ALOT. I mean over that course of time we probably have had 100 different officials over that time period, and they ALL call a bunch of fouls on the Hogs. It could just be that the Hogs, with how they play D, just foul alot.

It's because they play defense with their hands, not their feet. You can get away with it when playing lesser teams, but not the good ones. It is a coaching moment that needs to be addressed.

[rzrbackramsfan]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

Somebody on here should send this to mike Anderson.

[rude1]

Supports what I have said, if Manny is getting extended minutes for us it isn't a good thing. Love the kids grit, but on what teams we are competing against would he get 22+ minutes a game? This just illustrates that the guard recruiting and or retention, especially at the high school level has been atrocious under this staff. We have tried to make a living off transfers and jucos.

[niels_boar]

Here are the games in which Manny Watkins has played 30+ minutes for Arkansas:

* 97-71 loss to Kentucky
* 92-69 loss to Texas A&M
* 85-81 loss to Dayton
* 88-85 loss to Wake Forest

I do not believe this is a Manny issue. Maybe it says something about the overall defense. If Arkansas needs Watkins that much for defense, it indicates another sort of problem.

Kentucky made something like 67% of its 2-point shots against the Hogs. Officiating was a big problem, but Arkansas gave up too many easy shots + displayed no ability to stop anyone driving to the hoop.

I think all it indicates is that we are shorthanded and/or have rotation players that are in foul trouble or playing lousy, none of which is conducive to winning road games.  Against Wake Forest we only had 8 players available, and four starters finished with 4 fouls and the fifth Whitt was ineffective.  Dayton was an OT game in which Thompson and Miles only played 19 minutes.  Watkins was shuttling between guard and forward.  The same was true at A&M. He was pulling double-duty last year as a stopgap at PF.