Someone who knows more about basketball please explain this to me...

[HogMantheIntruder]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this? 

[grayhawg]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this? 

Works that way if you can play more people.

[raz1965]

Works different ways in different games, some teams can take advantage of it, but Nolan did well with it and VCU is a copy of Nolans style and made a huge run in the tourney just a year or two ago, think you need great talent for it to work best.

[Dr. Starcs]

Don't forget Rick Pitino at Louisville.

The key is discipline in the press. And the ville had a Ron protector that controlled the paint along with outstanding guard play.

[onebadrubi]

Nolan was famous for making his kids run Cleveland hill often.  This kept the kids in an extremely fit shape for a high tempo style of ball.  I am not sure if Mike is doing that or not, but I know he is putting them through a fit regimen, remember the ROTC thing befor last season?

With our style of play he has to get them in very physical fit shape to run it as well as go deeper in the bench.  Remember a year or two ago we played a couple of better teams with just one or two subs that could play on a div 1 team?  These are the kind of teams we want to run out of a gym. 

It will be interesting to see what we can do to this years Kentucky substitution patterns. 

[chiefhawg]

It create mental as well as physical fatigue. Generally players take mental breaks after made baskets as they transition into the "offensive zone".  I am showing my age with that term. The press does not let them take that break. Watch a game closely. After a made basket, most player jog back down the court to set up on the offensive end. An effective press makes the team or primary ball handlers work. You see a lot of unforced turnovers not just steals.

[woodhog14]

Nolan was famous for making his kids run Cleveland hill often.  This kept the kids in an extremely fit shape for a high tempo style of ball.  I am not sure if Mike is doing that or not, but I know he is putting them through a fit regimen, remember the ROTC thing befor last season?

With our style of play he has to get them in very physical fit shape to run it as well as go deeper in the bench.  Remember a year or two ago we played a couple of better teams with just one or two subs that could play on a div 1 team?  These are the kind of teams we want to run out of a gym. 

It will be interesting to see what we can do to this years Kentucky substitution patterns. 

Yes, Mike makes them run Cleveland Hill.

[HSVhogfan2]

It is harder mentally and physically to bring the ball up the court as a guard than it does to apply the pressure. What worked so much better for Nolan is that when he trapped, he had guys with greater lateral quickness, who anticipated the passes and made steals. Therefore, most teams tried to beat the press with dribbling. The kiss of death.

MAs guys seem not to be willing, or able to anticipate the passing lanes and get steals. Therefore, a couple of diagonal passes leads to open jump shots without wearing on the opposing teams guards. I would like to know what the 3 pt percentage for opposing teams are second half vs first half. I bet it's not much different.

[chiefhawg]

Pressure teams will be really effective if/when the shot clock is reduced to 30 seconds. The entire game will be sped up.

[rude1]

The fatigue angle is only one that is looking to be accomplished and that one is probably overstated now with all the media time outs to stop the action. What you are also looking to do is force teams to speed up and play at a pace that's uncomfortable for them and more comfortable for us, resulting in them making mistakes that we cash in for easy baskets and more shot attempts. It's effective if you got the guys to run it correctly, which we don't have at this moment.

[HogMantheIntruder]

It is harder mentally and physically to bring the ball up the court as a guard than it does to apply the pressure. What worked so much better for Nolan is that when he trapped, he had guys with greater lateral quickness, who anticipated the passes and made steals. Therefore, most teams tried to beat the press with dribbling. The kiss of death.

MAs guys seem not to be willing, or able to anticipate the passing lanes and get steals. Therefore, a couple of diagonal passes leads to open jump shots without wearing on the opposing teams guards. I would like to know what the 3 pt percentage for opposing teams are second half vs first half. I bet it's not much different.

A lot of good answers on here.  This makes the most sense to me.  I guess the key is high basketball IQ, fast reflexes, and effort.  I was in my early teens when Nolan had us rolling, so I just remember everything working, but I didn't know why.

[Danny J]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this?

It worked well at UGA late(last 10 minutes), at Tennessee(but their lead was just too large) and could very well explain why Clark missed short and to the right on those two FT's.

I will also note it worked in the Iona game and many other non-conf home games that were really close up until the last 10 minutes of the game.

[12247]

The full court press must be operated by players who refuse to be denied.  Properly operated, the defender cuts the ball handler off in any direction he chooses to attempt.  Those players not in the immediate action are dogged too.  You are pressing every player into finding it difficult to go where they desire to go.  Make each player difficult to throw or receive a pass.  You got 5 seconds to get the ball in and 10 seconds to cross the half if nothing has changed.  That eats on a team all game long.  There is no rest. 

If any defender gets beat on the press, it causes the offense to have an advantage because there 5 on 4 or worse.  If beaten, you absolutely have to hustle back into the flow and we don't.  Pressing isn't running along beside the dribbler and slapping at the ball.  We allow pressure to build because those defending nearer the basket are forced to leave their man to defend yours.  This can often end up with the other Guys getting an easy bucket.  Also if any defender doesn't give 100 percent the press is easy to break.  An average team who is willing to press can give a very good team fits.  Nolan kept subbing to keep fresh legs on the press.  The Arkansas press today is rarely effective.

[TennesseeRaz]

The full court press must be operated by players who refuse to be denied.  Properly operated, the defender cuts the ball handler off in any direction he chooses to attempt.  Those players not in the immediate action are dogged too.  You are pressing every player into finding it difficult to go where they desire to go.  Make each player difficult to throw or receive a pass.  You got 5 seconds to get the ball in and 10 seconds to cross the half if nothing has changed.  That eats on a team all game long.  There is no rest. 

If any defender gets beat on the press, it causes the offense to have an advantage because there 5 on 4 or worse.  If beaten, you absolutely have to hustle back into the flow and we don't.  Pressing isn't running along beside the dribbler and slapping at the ball.  We allow pressure to build because those defending nearer the basket are forced to leave their man to defend yours.  This can often end up with the other Guys getting an easy bucket.  Also if any defender doesn't give 100 percent the press is easy to break.  An average team who is willing to press can give a very good team fits.  Nolan kept subbing to keep fresh legs on the press.  The Arkansas press today is rarely effective.

Agreed.  And it really helps if your players are great defenders (quick AND willing).  I think we have some who may be willing, but despite being great athletes, they just aren't quick.

[hawgfan4life]

This team has great kids and I have no doubt they want to win and give great effort.  However, they have a serious lack of natural variables that some kids have and some don't.  Great players have a knack for being out of their position of responsibility to make a great play while not giving up the big play.  They have a sixth sense ability to anticipate and break when by all accounts, they probably shouldn't.  I see passes in every game that I wonder why in the world did we not see that pass coming and flash for the steal.  Portis has shown it a few times at the top of the key and Qualls made one in a game or two ago but overall, we simply do not see it nearly as much as we should in a pressing defense.

As for wearing down, that is why you see Coach Anderson subbing out everybody so long so often.  We are often times angry about the substitution pattern and wonder what is he doing.  His philosophy is they will make runs, the other team will get wore down, and they will win in the end and he coaches that way throughout the game.  Looks stupid and ugly sometimes when it isn't working.  We sometimes fail to recognize it when it is a scrappy close game and we win (MO and AL games).  Looks awesome when we are clicking and the other team loses their will to keep playing hard.

[Overtheroadtruckdriver]

It's hard to beat a good team with a press.  I would argue that in many cases it wears us down more than the other team and causes us to be fatigued in our normal half court defense.  Unless we are creating a lot of turnovers in the backcourt, which we don't do that often, it would be better for us to get back on defense and not have so many funky rotations where portis is pulled out to the three point line to cover a six foot guard. 

[k.c.hawg]

The National Championship team also had the added effect of our second five are better than your second five....and if you go with a 7 man rotation we will without a doubt wear you down. Corliss and Scotty averaged 29 min a game, Beck 25, McDanial 21, Stewart 21, Robinson 18, Crawford 18, Dillard 13, Rimac 12, Wilson 10. Those averages remained consistent throughout conference play as well. Everyone stayed fresh, everyone could truly bust ass every minute they were on the court. We had better scoring options in the second group, all players were better defensively than our current group. That team truly could wear teams down, this team doesn't have the depth of scorers or defenders for the strategy to work as well.

[BallHog1]

It's hard to beat a good team with a press.  I would argue that in many cases it wears us down more than the other team and causes us to be fatigued in our normal half court defense.  Unless we are creating a lot of turnovers in the backcourt, which we don't do that often, it would be better for us to get back on defense and not have so many funky rotations where portis is pulled out to the three point line to cover a six foot guard. 

There used to be a small school in Logan County, Scranton I think, that beat a lot of teams with much larger players, more players (bigger schools), and arguably better teams using a press.

[mhuff]

It is harder mentally and physically to bring the ball up the court as a guard than it does to apply the pressure. What worked so much better for Nolan is that when he trapped, he had guys with greater lateral quickness, who anticipated the passes and made steals. Therefore, most teams tried to beat the press with dribbling. The kiss of death.

MAs guys seem not to be willing, or able to anticipate the passing lanes and get steals. Therefore, a couple of diagonal passes leads to open jump shots without wearing on the opposing teams guards. I would like to know what the 3 pt percentage for opposing teams are second half vs first half. I bet it's not much different.

You got it Toyota. You are right on. Here's what is happening to be specific.... I have talked about it all year. First, the guys are not smothering...... I mean in your face ....aggressively attacking the ball handler. But when they do the longer pass is made and no one is taking advantage of it. You have to be like a little snake hiding in the grass.... when you see the dribbler get ready to pass.... you have to flash and pick it off or at least get a hand on it. Bell drives me crazy..... His defense is not good anyway... but he plays back and makes no attempt to steal the ball. He is like the defender who plays 10 yards off the receiver. All he has to do is grow him some..... Beard has been pretty good on occasion.......   I am visiting my grandson in OK. tomorrow. He has his last school BB game. We're going to have a conversation on over playing his man and not getting beat back door...... objective to pick off pass. Also, head fakes and picking off passes when it's 2 on 1. Fake like you're going to guard  and stop the ball handler ; then, switch over to pick off the pass. It will often cause a walk or out of control shot. He's really quick and loves defense. Might as well have some fun.

[naturalbornpigger]

Our press is ineffective.  We don't have the talent or the tenacity.  This team is soft.

[GlassofSwine]

We need a guy like Clint Mcdaniel. He was a relentless defender on the press.

[mhuff]

The full court press must be operated by players who refuse to be denied.  Properly operated, the defender cuts the ball handler off in any direction he chooses to attempt.  Those players not in the immediate action are dogged too.  You are pressing every player into finding it difficult to go where they desire to go.  Make each player difficult to throw or receive a pass.  You got 5 seconds to get the ball in and 10 seconds to cross the half if nothing has changed.  That eats on a team all game long.  There is no rest. 

If any defender gets beat on the press, it causes the offense to have an advantage because there 5 on 4 or worse.  If beaten, you absolutely have to hustle back into the flow and we don't.  Pressing isn't running along beside the dribbler and slapping at the ball.  We allow pressure to build because those defending nearer the basket are forced to leave their man to defend yours.  This can often end up with the other Guys getting an easy bucket.  Also if any defender doesn't give 100 percent the press is easy to break.  An average team who is willing to press can give a very good team fits.  Nolan kept subbing to keep fresh legs on the press.  The Arkansas press today is rarely effective.

Played on a team that was small. We once scored 10 points in a minute off a NLR team that averaged 6'4".

[Overtheroadtruckdriver]

There used to be a small school in Logan County, Scranton I think, that beat a lot of teams with much larger players, more players (bigger schools), and arguably better teams using a press.

I was on the receiving end of some of those beatings. Saw one of those I played against this morning in church in fact.  He couldn't hardly genuflect and I'm still as spry as a Billy goat.  I guess all those years of pressing word down his body.  I guess I'd rather have a couple of losses under my belt and still be able to genuflect.  Kinda funny in a way.

[HogMantheIntruder]

We need a guy like Clint Mcdaniel. He was a relentless defender on the press.

Aside from Scotty, he was my absolute favorite player on that team, and VASTLY underrated.  He always provided a spark offensively, but like you said, his defense was down right NASTY!!!  Thing is, I don't know that the refs would allow us to play defense like that nowadays.  Scratch that, I know for a fact they wouldn't.  Seems like they are constantly trying to make the game as un-physical as possible.

[Sharky]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this?

Depends, in part, on whether the press is working. Most basketball teams would rather have a team of 7 good all-around players, with 1 or 2 superstar offensive players. CMA needs 10 fast, superior athletes, and 1 or 2 superstar defenders.

Anderson tries to limit minutes to around 30, but his teams have experienced late season fatigue in the past. Fatigue might have been why Portis was ineffective against Missouri, and we didn't shoot that well. Portis has been playing a lot of minutes--hard, hard minutes. We could definitely be deeper, and we need at least ONE defensive spark--a high-energy steal and dish specialist--but they're hard to find.

[azhog10]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this?

Sure. But not all teams play 11 guys and not all teams are conditioned for it.

[WarPig88]

The National Championship team also had the added effect of our second five are better than your second five....and if you go with a 7 man rotation we will without a doubt wear you down. Corliss and Scotty averaged 29 min a game, Beck 25, McDanial 21, Stewart 21, Robinson 18, Crawford 18, Dillard 13, Rimac 12, Wilson 10. Those averages remained consistent throughout conference play as well. Everyone stayed fresh, everyone could truly bust ass every minute they were on the court. We had better scoring options in the second group, all players were better defensively than our current group. That team truly could wear teams down, this team doesn't have the depth of scorers or defenders for the strategy to work as well.

This is a fantastic post. Some fantastic insight to the success of the past and what separates today's team from them.

Very well put.

[hogsanity]

Pressure teams will be really effective if/when the shot clock is reduced to 30 seconds. The entire game will be sped up.

Not with 18 timeouts per game. With 8 tv timeouts, and each team having 5 timeouts, fatigue is rarely going to be an issue. Now possessions would be sped up, but I don't see them moving away from the 35 second clock anytime soon.

[riccoar]

If your playing a team that only goes 6-7 deep or depends heavily on their 5 starters it will be effective regardless of timeouts.  Assuming you have 10-12 conditioned players to execute it.

[hogsanity]

If your playing a team that only goes 6-7 deep or depends heavily on their 5 starters it will be effective regardless of timeouts.  Assuming you have 10-12 conditioned players to execute it.

Which means it will work against North Texas and Iona much better than it will against teams like TN or Bama.  IT also matter what kind of guard play the opponent has.

[HSVhogfan2]

Which means it will work against North Texas and Iona much better than it will against teams like TN or Bama.  IT also matter what kind of guard play the opponent has.

I can promise you with 100% degree of certainty, no guard likes to face an effective and relentless press. You would much rather be able to walk/jog the ball up court and get into your offense on your own terms.

Now one can argue whether or not AR press is effective/relentless, but to say with blanket certainity that presses don't work in this day and age is not accurate.

[bigredone]

Doesn't the full court press wear down the player(s) applying the press moreso than the one trying to bring it up the court? The theory that it takes the opponent's legs out late in the game just doesn't add up for me, and I rarely see any team (aside from those with much lesser talent and/or a thin bench) noticeably more "worn down" late in the game than we are.  Am I way off on this? 

There is also the idea that Nolan always employed of trying to take the fun out of the game for the other team. The press combined with the scramble was supposed to make the opponent hesitant to even make a pass which I have not seen much of this season. Mental fatigue was just as important as physical fatigue.

I know a lot of you don't like what Mike is coaching and it isn't exactly the same as Nolan but the goals are still the same. If you can get into their legs, great. If you can get into their heads, even better. If you get them both physically and mentally fatigued it is game over.

[hogsanity]

I can promise you with 100% degree of certainty, no guard likes to face an effective and relentless press. You would much rather be able to walk/jog the ball up court and get into your offense on your own terms.

Now one can argue whether or not AR press is effective/relentless, but to say with blanket certainity that presses don't work in this day and age is not accurate.

A good ball handler is not bothered by the press. The press can be effective, especially when a team jumps in or out of it, but to just run it constantly does not work like it used to work.

However, the biggest difference now over 20 years ago, imo, is that back then few teams had more than two players who were really good at handling the ball. Now teams 4 or 5 spot can bring it up if needed.

[HSVhogfan2]

A good ball handler is not bothered by the press. The press can be effective, especially when a team jumps in or out of it, but to just run it constantly does not work like it used to work.

However, the biggest difference now over 20 years ago, imo, is that back then few teams had more than two players who were really good at handling the ball. Now teams 4 or 5 spot can bring it up if needed.

You sound incredibly sure of yourself. Not bashing, just curious, where did you play college ball? You can PM me if you don't want to say on the board.

[hogsanity]

You sound incredibly sure of yourself. Not bashing, just curious, where did you play college ball? You can PM me if you don't want to say on the board.

I did not play college ball, I have eyes.

Think back to when the Hogs and UNLV were the two teams known for pressing. If they could force you to pass it to you 3 4 or 5, you were in trouble, because back then most guys in those positions could not handle the ball. Arkansas had guys like Stewart, Miller, and even Corliss, bigs who can handle it, so it was hard to press the Hogs.

Now just about everyone, has 3 or 4 guys who can handle the ball, at least effectively enough, to nullify a press. That is why we see so many teams get wide open shots or layups against the Hogs, and other pressing teams, now because they have so many more options to handle the ball.

[WarPig88]

A good ball handler is not bothered by the press.

Seriously?

He just has to sprint everywhere he goes if he wants to try and break it off the dribble. This wears his legs out regardless of what you believe.

I coach and we press most of the game even if we aren't creating turnovers just for the fatigue effect and I promise you it works, even in the college game with all the timeouts it works, though not as dramatically as it once did.

But to say that pressure doesn't affect a good ballhandler is just not correct.

[HSVhogfan2]

I did not play college ball, I have eyes.

Think back to when the Hogs and UNLV were the two teams known for pressing. If they could force you to pass it to you 3 4 or 5, you were in trouble, because back then most guys in those positions could not handle the ball. Arkansas had guys like Stewart, Miller, and even Corliss, bigs who can handle it, so it was hard to press the Hogs.

Now just about everyone, has 3 or 4 guys who can handle the ball, at least effectively enough, to nullify a press. That is why we see so many teams get wide open shots or layups against the Hogs, and other pressing teams, now because they have so many more options to handle the ball.

LOL. Can't argue with that logic, I guess. I just don't know many college guards over the last 35 years or so who would agree with you. And I'm not talking sound-bites in the media, I'm talking their honest opinion.

It is a different discussion entirely whether AR runs its press effectively.

[hogsanity]

LOL. Can't argue with that logic, I guess. I just don't know many college guards over the last 35 years or so who would agree with you. And I'm not talking sound-bites in the media, I'm talking their honest opinion.

It is a different discussion entirely whether AR runs its press effectively.

I don't mean to make it sound like players see a press and go " oh yea, they are going to be in my face all night, bring it on " I just mean it does not strike fear into them like it would a bad ball handler.

[SwinerBock]

The other thing about the shot clock... and just glancing at the thread so far, I'm not sure this was explicitly stated...  is that a press can force the opposing team to use upwards of about 15 seconds (or more) to get into their offense.  With a 35 second clock, that may not sound like a big deal.  But half-court offenses tend to use a good bit of that shot clock to search out a good to great shot opportunity.  Reduce that time any, and their shot selection quality goes down.

[rude1]

Just got back to this thread today and just wanted to comment that there has been very good basketball discussion in this thread with many posters accurately breaking down pressing basketball. Just wish we had more threads like this and less of the others.

[HSVhogfan2]

Just got back to this thread today and just wanted to comment that there has been very good basketball discussion in this thread with many posters accurately breaking down pressing basketball. Just wish we had more threads like this and less of the others.

Go kick rocks! 

[elksnort]

Anyone who has watched Razorback basketball for over 20+ years knows that the press DID work and worked well. It might work today also, but it appears that the Hogs still don't have enough of the type players to make it work as well as it used to.

So, maybe the coach should recruit more of these players or adjust the press when needed, like scaling it back some.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

A lot of good answers on here.  This makes the most sense to me.  I guess the key is high basketball IQ, fast reflexes, and effort.  I was in my early teens when Nolan had us rolling, so I just remember everything working, but I didn't know why.

You have to get the right players with the right skills to implement Nolan's system. Once you do that, it's constant pounding the ball in transition plus relentless pressure and defense that wears the opponents down. All of that causes lots of turnovers.

Any one of those elements can break a team off by itself. When it all works you get the Arkansas-Missouri blowout from back in the day.

I had a love hate relationship with Nolan while I was in school. Loved watching his teams play basketball but hated my coach trying to emulate his style. Off season conditioning was MISERABLE.