Those final 3 minutes

[Tejano Jawg]

Today at my health club, one of the networks was re-running the NC-Arkansas game. I walked in just a few seconds after Barford's sweet layup that put us up 65-60. I did get to see Moses' big rejection that sent the ball into the 3rd row. The time on the clock was stopped at 3:00.

It was kinda interesting to see this with the TV sound completely off, and the closed-captions on. It changes your focus. Seeing the game in real time, without the game noise, and knowing how it all turned out...it was like the whole thing was in slow-motion. Like a bad dream sequence. We know about the 2 big events (no calls), but I'm curious about some that didn't seem as big at the time.

–Play resumes. We attempt a steal, get the ball but foul called = 2 NC free throws. (How much contact was there?...couldn't tell from the angle. The refs chose to call it. But we sure had a breakaway.)

–Hicks' dunk over Moses. (I'll give them that one. They earned it.) = 2 NC pts.

–Back on our end, Barford misses a shot and we're called for a foul going for the rebound. (I'd like to see the amount of contact on this too. The refs were sure on it.) = 2 NC free throws. NC goes up by 1.

–On our next possession, Macon's long 3 attempt was tipped—one ref called it a tipped ball, but was overruled...but by who?—NC ball. Also, there was some contact after the release, but NO call. (If this was NC shooting, would this have produced a whistle?)

–The coup-de-gras, on NC's next trip was the charge/block (take your pick) and travel....followed by Meeks' put-back. What I don't understand—there are times refs make a call because a play just LOOKS bad as it's happening...hard contact, arms flying, players getting knocked down. They may get it wrong sometimes, when reviewed with high-rez slow-mo, but you understand why a call was made. But this was a no-call on a sequence that had a LOT going on.

We can all think the refs were pre-disposed to favor NC...maybe, sure looks like it. But I think what happened on the play was HOW QUICKLY it happened. Rewinding a couple seconds, during Berry's drive, the ball wasn't away from body in mid-dribble. The ball was in his chest, clutched by both arms like a fullback on a dive handoff. The contact created such a space, Berry had room to take his 4th and 5th steps, and fling the ball. The bounce off the goal and put-back were ping-pong quick. There was no time for the refs to get air through their whistles. And they sure weren't going to wave off the basket. It's not all the time—yet not uncommon—when a scoring play happens a fraction of a second after a questionable event/foul. But still, the refs' job is to officiate, and they chose not to on that play.

–On our next possession, Moses was fouled and missed 2 free throws. That was the end. We had to have something there.

–A few possessions later, NC rattles in 2 more free throws. NC's 6th freebie point in 3 minutes.

Last thing. Consider this all in context—field goal %...Ark 43%, NC 38%. 3-point %...Ark 38%, NC 29%. So how'd we lose?...here's what made up for NC's poor shooting. Free throws...NC went 19 of 25, Ark 5 of 8.

[ShadowHawg]

No sale.

The Berry thing was far from bang-bang. It was so bad that everyone on the court stopped playing until the ball hits the backboard.

Williams says something about it in his post game presser and commended Meeks for playing until he heard a whistle.

[Rawker]

No sale.

The Berry thing was far from bang-bang. It was so bad that everyone on the court stopped playing until the ball hits the backboard.

Williams says something about it in his post game presser and commended Meeks for playing until he heard a whistle.

Agreeeeeed.  BUT I will point out -ONCE AGAIN AND FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, as I have done in at least 5 posts that have not been responded to - the BIGGEST kicker was point #1 of the OP's post:  Bailey had a CLEAN steal and that was going the other way for a layup, and probably making the game a real pickle for NC....THEY would have had to start fouling soon after that instead of us.  Bailey had been doing that since getting in the game in the 1st half, and THAT steal was the cleaning of all the ones he got.  THAT.....THAT....I'm telling you....was bigger than the walk, because at the point of that no-call we were the ones in the scoring bind at that point, but the refs had already turned the tide by calling Bailey's steal (and certain points) a foul.  I will NEVER....EVER...forget it!!!!

[ShadowHawg]

Agreeeeeed.  BUT I will point out -ONCE AGAIN AND FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, as I have done in at least 5 posts that have not been responded to - the BIGGEST kicker was point #1 of the OP's post:  Bailey had a CLEAN steal and that was going the other way for a layup, and probably making the game a real pickle for NC....THEY would have had to start fouling soon after that instead of us.  Bailey had been doing that since getting in the game in the 1st half, and THAT steal was the cleaning of all the ones he got.  THAT.....THAT....I'm telling you....was bigger than the walk, because at the point of that no-call we were the ones in the scoring bind at that point, but the refs had already turned the tide by calling Bailey's steal (and certain points) a foul.  I will NEVER....EVER...forget it!!!!

No question. A 3 possession game comes with a whole different strategy and amount of pressure.

[Rawker]

No question. A 3 possession game comes with a whole different strategy and amount of pressure.

Yes.  THANK You.  No punditry brought it up....hardly talked about even here....the Bailey steal (called foul) was OUR 2 points that were given to NC with less than 3 minutes.  It's Everything.  Think about it, as Macon would have been laying in another one, the Arkansas bench going nuts....and NC tightening up even more (What, would we be up by 7 at that point?  SEVEN!!!!).  It could very well be over at that very second....in our favor.  And we're moving on to beat up on Butler and that close to the Final 4.

[Tejano Jawg]

The Berry thing was far from bang-bang. It was so bad that everyone on the court stopped playing until the ball hits the backboard.

I was guessing from the referee's point of view. I have no idea why they didn't blow the whistle after Berry's lumbering, out-of-control "charge"...and maybe that was more stretched out than what I remember, but the slap-shot goal wasn't. But it was already too late.

Yes.  THANK You.  No punditry brought it up....hardly talked about even here....the Bailey steal (called foul) was OUR 2 points that were given to NC with less than 3 minutes.  It's Everything.  Think about it, as Macon would have been laying in another one, the Arkansas bench going nuts....and NC tightening up even more (What, would we be up by 7 at that point?  SEVEN!!!!).  It could very well be over at that very second....in our favor.  And we're moving on to beat up on Butler and that close to the Final 4.

I agree with what that would have done to us (not just on the scoreboard) and to NC, being down 7. No, they don't recover from that.

The reason I originally thought this was relevant—so many of our fast breaks were from picking up loose balls, in traffic, then flying the other direction. It's one thing that kept us in the game. When I saw that play again, it looked great, with the ball tipped loose and 2 red shirts (Bailey and Macon) taking off in the other direction. No replays and no flipping out by CMA or our players, so the play faded into history. Setting up the rest of the garbage calls/no-calls.

[Biggus Piggus]

No sale.

The Berry thing was far from bang-bang. It was so bad that everyone on the court stopped playing until the ball hits the backboard.

Williams says something about it in his post game presser and commended Meeks for playing until he heard a whistle.

Berry walked a mile. A fricking mile. Then charged. Idiotic demonstration of refs' intent not to call ANYTHING on North Carolina at all. They don't love 'em. But they were biased. They were biased by their fear of making a mistake that would hurt North Carolina and have them eviscerated on social media and TV.

That's all I can imagine. Maybe somebody else has a logical explanation. They were not going to call jack. North Carolina got the clue and took advantage of it.

[Atlhogfan1]

The travel was obvious.  Only other guess I have is they couldn't decide walk or foul and none made a decision.  The play was such a cluster.  By the time the rebound was put back they all just said Frank it and went on. Didn't want to be the one who blew late whistle on NC.

Rewatching it seems kinda like watching the 4th qtr of the 69 Shootout.  I can't and won't and wasn't even quite born yet when it happened.

[Biggus Piggus]

The travel was obvious.  Only other guess I have is they couldn't decide walk or foul and none made a decision.  The play was such a cluster.  By the time the rebound was put back they all just said Frank it and went on. Didn't want to be the one who blew late whistle on NC.

Rewatching it seems kinda like watching the 4th qtr of the 69 Shootout.  I can't and won't and wasn't even quite born yet when it happened.

I can't even read that part of the book about the Big Shootout. Tried. Can't. About threw it through a wall.

[Tejano Jawg]

This is for Rawker—

I said that first play (following Moses' block) didn't have the advantage of other replays. Well check this out. A video shot from the crowd, narrated by a kid. Look at the play—at the 1:10 minute mark—the NC guard dribbles right into Bailey, then falls. Bailey gets a hand on it on the first bounce. Damn, that was getting ready to be showtime for sure. So was the NC player's flop the reason the foul was called?

This footage is like our Zapruder film. But then, we have quite a collection of these over the years.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

There is a bigger picture to all this. As the OP says, we've focused on the dramatic plays where the refs swallowed their whistles--which have been replayed hundreds of times. Those were huge and they do stand out. They do overwhelm the more general feeling that others in this thread have pointed out--what was called on us, what wasn't called on the Heels in that last critical stretch.

There's the question of how the refs were swaying things in those last 3 minutes. BUT, if you look at the foul calls-numbers for the entire game, they had a hand in it the entire time. (Us shooting 8 total free throws is really a joke. Has anyone else really looked at this?) So the end of the game wasn't some odd turnaround. The refs kept calling the game the same, it was just more damaging as time was running out.

[Sharky]

We took several bad shots in the last 6 minutes. It was lack of experience imo.

[WorfHog]

We took several bad shots in the last 6 minutes. It was lack of experience imo.

How many did UNC score without the assistance of the officials?

[Paul]

We took several bad shots in the last 6 minutes. It was lack of experience imo.

yep

[Rawker]

This is for Rawker—

I said that first play (following Moses' block) didn't have the advantage of other replays. Well check this out. A video shot from the crowd, narrated by a kid. Look at the play—at the 1:10 minute mark—the NC guard dribbles right into Bailey, then falls. Bailey gets a hand on it on the first bounce. Damn, that was getting ready to be showtime for sure. So was the NC player's flop the reason the foul was called?

This footage is like our Zapruder film. But then, we have quite a collection of these over the years.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!  You just made me LOSE MY **** all over again!!!  Just like I did when it happened!!!!!!  Thanks for this!  The steal is even cleaner than it looked on TV!!!  You've done two things here:
(1) You've made it even more clear to me that everyone in the whole CBB-watching world is looking at the wrong call that failed us.
(2) You ruined yet another day for me, as I now have another image to go on to show how much WE GOT SSSSSCREEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Updated:  You're EXACTLY right - this IS the Zapruder film of that game, and 1:13 is JFK's head going the wrong way.  Sorry I had to bring that into it, because this is not death, but right at 1:13, if you're not jumping out of your chair and rolling on the ground like I just did, you're not a Hog fan.

[Rawker]

yep

Nope.  Their experience was fine.  It was the effort put in to coming back from 17 and having to do it against 2 monsters down low and more size overall.  They just ran out of steam.  But MOSTLY they got screwed.  I submit, once again, 1:13 of Tejano Jawg's Zapruder film.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

I just watched the Zapruder film in reply #9. Outside of the entertainment of that kid's narration—who's clearly neutral at first, and was channeling Les Miles with his pronunciation of the the last "s" in Arkansass—it's tragic.

I like his first call, after our steal and Barford's layup, "that's happened a lot." And especially "the 1 is losing to the 8." If you guys haven't seen the vid, it's worth a look. But go back to the original youtube post so you can get it full screen. You're not going to like it. The Heel player is going around his screen and dribbles right into Bailey without seeing him. That pick looks clean--and that would have been 'game over.' The foul called flies in the face of refs letting the players play at the end. A microscopic touch (if that) gets whistled, and the collision a minute later doesn't??

[Rawker]

I just watched the Zapruder film in reply #9. Outside of the entertainment of that kid's narration—who's clearly neutral at first, and was channeling Les Miles with his pronunciation of the the last "s" in Arkansass—it's tragic.

I like his first call, after our steal and Barford's layup, "that's happened a lot." And especially "the 1 is losing to the 8." If you guys haven't seen the vid, it's worth a look. But go back to the original youtube post so you can get it full screen. You're not going to like it. The Heel player is going around his screen and dribbles right into Bailey without seeing him. That pick looks clean--and that would have been 'game over.' The foul called flies in the face of refs letting the players play at the end. A microscopic touch (if that) gets whistled, and the collision a minute later doesn't??

It is tragic.  I love how Berry, knowing the steal was clean, immediately sold the BS by falling into Bailey to either stop the eventual dunk or get the call....and of course he got the call.  And there are SOOOOO many calls across the course of the game (everyone also forgot about the crap where Macon knock it out of bounds, it landed a full foot plus out of bounds, and an NC player picks it with no Hog still engaged in the assumed dead ball, and no call from the refs....easy layup for NC with no Hogs running back on defense.  In a fairly reffed game, it would have been an out of bounds play with the Hogs set up in halfcourt D during a period where our scrappy D was befuddling NC).   It's all even more painful to think about after NC had ZERO trouble with Bulter, which as I was watching the Hog-NC game, I prematurely imagined would be the case for us against Butler before NC came back in the end.  If we're "alllowed" to finish the NC game, I firmly believe we would have beaten Butler - especially after watching their weak ass guard play - and BOOM, Elite Eight....and then who knows?

[Rawker]

There is a bigger picture to all this. As the OP says, we've focused on the dramatic plays where the refs swallowed their whistles--which have been replayed hundreds of times. Those were huge and they do stand out. They do overwhelm the more general feeling that others in this thread have pointed out--what was called on us, what wasn't called on the Heels in that last critical stretch.

There's the question of how the refs were swaying things in those last 3 minutes. BUT, if you look at the foul calls-numbers for the entire game, they had a hand in it the entire time. (Us shooting 8 total free throws is really a joke. Has anyone else really looked at this?) So the end of the game wasn't some odd turnaround. The refs kept calling the game the same, it was just more damaging as time was running out.

Oh yeah...one that REALLY sticks out in my mind is a drive from Hannahs, who as ill-advisedly as he did play that day, did have one drive in the lane that was more appropriate for him.  It was the one time he ended up one-on-one against a guard, and that guard sent him to the floor as hard as I've seen - it was a full body slam.  No call.  That's 2 automatic FTs taken away, and the refs knew it.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

This is my last post on this topic (maybe). As I've been watching all the last several games wrapping up, in the past week, none of them have had a major sub-plot relating to the officiating. I know that goal-tending game was up there in stupidity, but that didn't occur in the critical closing minutes. Maybe ANY low seed gets those kind of calls/no calls against North Carolina. Who knows?

When I was doing a search for a game video, look at the headlines that followed the game. Pretty telling don't you think?

[rzrbackramsfan]

I really hope a montage of all the calls that screwed us will be made.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

I really hope a montage of all the calls that screwed us will be made.

Going back how far? Remember the U.S. Reed trip (called a travel) in the game that put freaking Indiana State in the Final Four?

[WorfHog]

Going back how far? Remember the U.S. Reed trip (called a travel) in the game that put freaking Indiana State in the Final Four?

At least the 1890's maybe earlier.

[arkfan81]

I'm still bitter about hogs/gators in the swamp. We were robbed then.

Now having the same feeling vs the Tar Heels.

I'll remember these two games for the rest of my life and remember the feeling of being robbed.