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Hazen transferring to Ball St.

Started by ricepig, May 22, 2017, 12:50:32 pm

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NWAHog479

As long as we don't bring in another Kouassi....

HognitiveDissonance

Hard to know what he would have projected to, but in the limited amt of time he got to play I saw very good athleticism, hustle, and seemed to be much the team player. Always cheering others on from the bench. Seemed like an excellent athlete, at the least.

But he didn't play enough to ascertain much of anything. Should he have stolen a lot of minutes for Thompson, etc. Of course not.

But the bigger picture is that freshmen who aren't 'stars' simply don't play much under CMA. There is somewhat of a pattern there.  Babb...Whitt...Hazen...Kingsley didn't play that much as a frosh...there was a whole thread devoted to 'why doesn't CJ Jones play more?' last year. So, guys get frustrated and transfer sometimes.

One can argue that those types of guys got the appropriate amt of PT and it was best for the team. The team had success last year, so what's the problem?
One can also argue that analyzing their respective talents and potential using the 'eyeball test', they should have played more.

Me, I fall somewhere in the middle. With this many younger guys transferring out, it does point to a valid question, I think. I never understood why Kingsley didn't see more PT as a freshman. Luckily he stuck it out. I think a case can be made that these young guys can be brought along a little better to not get so discouraged that they want out. Anytime that many guys want out, it's usually not a great thing.

 

mhuff

Quote from: Big Nasty 34 on May 23, 2017, 10:40:54 am
Go back to MMQB.

Well we just lost a big that could shoot from outside. This player would have helped whether some realize it or not. Not the first time this has happened,

PonderinHog

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on May 23, 2017, 12:06:29 pm
Hard to know what he would have projected to, but in the limited amt of time he got to play I saw very good athleticism, hustle, and seemed to be much the team player. Always cheering others on from the bench. Seemed like an excellent athlete, at the least.

But he didn't play enough to ascertain much of anything. Should he have stolen a lot of minutes for Thompson, etc. Of course not.

But the bigger picture is that freshmen who aren't 'stars' simply don't play much under CMA. There is somewhat of a pattern there.  Babb...Whitt...Hazen...Kingsley didn't play that much as a frosh...there was a whole thread devoted to 'why doesn't CJ Jones play more?' last year. So, guys get frustrated and transfer sometimes.

One can argue that those types of guys got the appropriate amt of PT and it was best for the team. The team had success last year, so what's the problem?
One can also argue that analyzing their respective talents and potential using the 'eyeball test', they should have played more.

Me, I fall somewhere in the middle. With this many younger guys transferring out, it does point to a valid question, I think. I never understood why Kingsley didn't see more PT as a freshman. Luckily he stuck it out. I think a case can be made that these young guys can be brought along a little better to not get so discouraged that they want out. Anytime that many guys want out, it's usually not a great thing.
I think Kingsley had a nagging injury or illness his first year.

labb

I seem to remember that Kingsley was recovering from malaria his freshman year

MountieDawg

SEC!

NoogaHog

Quote from: NWAHog479 on May 23, 2017, 11:22:58 am
As long as we don't bring in another Kouassi....

What you got against Willy? He was a 1 year big body to spell Moses and grab a couple of rebounds. He did exactly that. No more than that, though. What did you expect?

I dare say that another limited big like him would be more useful next year than a project at a position where we are already 3-4 deep. 
Слава Богу - Slava Bogu - "Glory to God"

Razorbackers

Quote from: HogBeliever625 on May 23, 2017, 10:42:11 am
I don't get the disappointment from everyone. We were in need of a 4 last year and this kid never saw the floor. Not very athletic. The guys we have now and coming in are better then him by a wide margin.


HawgnCorona

Quote from: The_Iceman on May 22, 2017, 01:09:43 pm
No surprise. Behind Thomas, Cook, and Bailey this year. Behind Perry and Bailey next year.

Well, maybe a big is on the way...Plenty o'play time for sure at the 5 spot.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting, get understanding." --   Proverbs 4:7

"Live justly, love mercy and to walk humbly with the Most High."-- Micah 6:8

poloprince

Best of wishes  :razorback:
$PoLoPrInCe$

RaisinHog

All of this talk of him being able too shoot a 3 .. did anyone ever see him make a 3pt basket in a game

navyhog24

Quote from: RaisinHog on May 23, 2017, 09:50:22 pm
All of this talk of him being able too shoot a 3 .. did anyone ever see him make a 3pt basket in a game

With what minutes would you expect it to happen?

Hogimus Prime

If MA and staff sign someone I really hope its a big. 

 

navyhog24

Quote from: Hogimus Prime on May 23, 2017, 10:15:36 pm
If MA and staff sign someone I really hope its a big. 

Don't we all hope that

JayHog

With what minutes?  Idk. Maybe the minutes he used to shoot 8 shots last year. He made 1 out of the 8.

navyhog24

Quote from: JayHog on May 23, 2017, 10:20:52 pm
With what minutes?  Idk. Maybe the minutes he used to shoot 8 shots last year. He made 1 out of the 8.

So you expect a kid to come in ice cold off the bench in garbage time to be red hot where he'll be lucky to get even just one shot off in that time?

Pork Twain

May 24, 2017, 06:19:35 am #66 Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 07:57:55 am by Pork Twain
Quote from: Big Nasty 34 on May 23, 2017, 10:40:54 am
Go back to MMQB.
I don't normally get too upset over there either, about 3* players that have yet to contribute, deciding to transfer.  I hope the best for this kid but he was buried on our depth chart and if recruiting continues to maintain its current pace, always would be.

Mike is finally doing what I thought he would not be able to, recruit top talent to AR.  That will cause earlier recruited players to transfer as they see their opportunity to play, disappear.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Hollywood_HOGan45

I'm sure some moron on here will blame Mike.

k.c.hawg

Wishing the young man the best of luck at his next stop while in disbelief at the analysis this is getting.........even on Hogville. It is amazing that in a thread on the top 2 units he gets no mention as being in the top 10 players of the rotation. He is an 11th man at best and they are recruiting over him at this point. In his 3rd year he looks to be a back of the 2nd unit player. Yes, it's great watching a player develop for 4 years to earn 12-15 minutes a game as a senior but it just doesn't happen that much anymore. Good luck to BH, appreciate him being a Hog, hope he goes somewhere and tears it up
Just sitting on the deck with a cold beer and a hot tequila watching the razorbacks roam.

Hawg Red

The Hazen loss is only notable because he projected to have the potential to be a stretch-4. But it's hard to expect a kid to wait two years to have a chance to crack the rotation. And even after two years, Hazen would have just had a chance to make the rotation. Reggie Perry is 5-star PF and will walk into a starting spot. Bailey is already established over Hazen. So he has to then battle with Ethan Henderson, a superior athlete and a player that projects a better defender, for playing time for the 2018-2019 season. It's really just as simple as Hazen's time at Arkansas came down to that freshman season and establishing a future role, and he lost that battle to Bailey. The loser of that competition for limited meaningful minutes was likely going to head out. That's just how it is these days, and I can't blame him. He's a good player. He deserves to play somewhere. It was clear that it was very likely not going to be at Arkansas after he couldn't get those few meaningful minutes that Bailey got. I think Hazen is a better college prospect that Dee Wagner or Doobie Jenkins, but he just happened to play a position of strong depth. If he was a center, then he might have been willing to wait another year and take up Thompson's minutes in the frontcourt.

FineAsSwine

Quote from: k.c.hawg on May 24, 2017, 08:33:35 am
Wishing the young man the best of luck at his next stop while in disbelief at the analysis this is getting.........even on Hogville. It is amazing that in a thread on the top 2 units he gets no mention as being in the top 10 players of the rotation. He is an 11th man at best and they are recruiting over him at this point. In his 3rd year he looks to be a back of the 2nd unit player. Yes, it's great watching a player develop for 4 years to earn 12-15 minutes a game as a senior but it just doesn't happen that much anymore. Good luck to BH, appreciate him being a Hog, hope he goes somewhere and tears it up

I agree that he was not going to contribute until his jr or sr year. Most of my expectations and projections were prodded by CMA's own comments about the kid and how "he has a nose for the ball" "he can stretch the defense" and so on. No clear path to playing time for a developmental player on this team and that's a good thing.
Hogs up! Covid down!

ArkansasI

Quote from: HogBeliever625 on May 23, 2017, 10:42:11 am
I don't get the disappointment from everyone. We were in need of a 4 last year and this kid never saw the floor. Not very athletic. The guys we have now and coming in are better then him by a wide margin.

Thanks for the reply.

I never saw Hazen as a 2016-17 player.  He clearly needed some physical maturation.

When I watched his high school tape, I saw good length and a nice shot.  I didn't view him as a 4... and believed there was no chance he would provide help at the 4 last season.

Assuming Hazen puts on some quality weight/strength, I thought he might create some match-up problems at the 2-3.  I don't see anyone else on the roster with his potential skillset.

If Hazen is a 4, then I'm wrong and so be it.  But if Hazen was never a good fit for the program, why did we bring him to Arkansas in the first place?  If the talent is truly on the rise - GREAT!

Biggus Piggus

Dee Wagner was a desperate reach. Lorenzo Jenkins was a desperate reach. Brachen Hazen was a desperate reach. In each case, Arkansas turned off of far better prospects earlier in the recruiting cycle, then scrambled late out of need. Let's hope that phase is past us.
[CENSORED]!

niels_boar

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 24, 2017, 12:36:57 pm
Dee Wagner was a desperate reach. Lorenzo Jenkins was a desperate reach. Brachen Hazen was a desperate reach. In each case, Arkansas turned off of far better prospects earlier in the recruiting cycle, then scrambled late out of need. Let's hope that phase is past us.

Wagner was a bad evaluation.  Hazen wasn't close to the same category of reach that Jenkins was.  Jenkins was only signed after Williams got kicked off the team in August.  It's not like there are a lot of options in August.  We weren't going to replace a quality senior Williams at that date.  That wasn't a recruiting mistake.  It was an untenable position. Miles not panning out was the recruiting mistake, though he might have been adequate in limited minutes as Williams' backup.   

You were pretty happy about the Hazen signing at the time.  In this environment the 12th-man transferring is more the norm than a surprise.  If our biggest recruiting problem is that a 3-star believes he can't crack the top-10 in two years, we'll be okay.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

 

azhog10

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 24, 2017, 12:36:57 pm
Dee Wagner was a desperate reach. Lorenzo Jenkins was a desperate reach. Brachen Hazen was a desperate reach. In each case, Arkansas turned off of far better prospects earlier in the recruiting cycle, then scrambled late out of need. Let's hope that phase is past us.
This is dumb. I get you on the first two, but Brachen wasn't so much of a reach. He could have contributed if we hadn't signed someone like Hall, and have Perry and Henderson lined up after that. Brachen knew he had a year to see if he could crack the rotation, and once we signed the guys we did he knew he would either be a guy deep on the bench and play very little over the next two years or he could transfer and get a better opportunity to play right away. He was a class act, loved being a hog, and the reason you see less and less redshirts are for reasons like this. Guys take a chance to play at a high major and if it doesn't pan out they use their redshirt as their transfer year. You are definitely being over dramatic about Hazen and calling him a reach.

King Kong

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 24, 2017, 12:36:57 pm
Dee Wagner was a desperate reach. Lorenzo Jenkins was a desperate reach. Brachen Hazen was a desperate reach. In each case, Arkansas turned off of far better prospects earlier in the recruiting cycle, then scrambled late out of need. Let's hope that phase is past us.

Hazen quality of offers far exceeded those of Wagner and Jenkins. I would not and do not consider him a reach

NWAHog479

Hazen was ranked high than both CJ Jones & Al Bailey

onebadrubi

Quote from: JayHog on May 23, 2017, 10:20:52 pm
With what minutes?  Idk. Maybe the minutes he used to shoot 8 shots last year. He made 1 out of the 8.

That's one more than yo would have made in those minutes.

Big Nasty 34

Quote from: mhuff on May 23, 2017, 12:23:36 pm
Well we just lost a big that could shoot from outside. This player would have helped whether some realize it or not. Not the first time this has happened,

I know who we lost and I know the potential of Hazen. I was replying to a poster who had the "who?" comment whether out of ignorance or an attitude of "we don't need him" I do not know.

Kevin McPherson

Quote from: azhog10 on May 24, 2017, 01:27:21 pm
This is dumb. I get you on the first two, but Brachen wasn't so much of a reach. He could have contributed if we hadn't signed someone like Hall, and have Perry and Henderson lined up after that. Brachen knew he had a year to see if he could crack the rotation, and once we signed the guys we did he knew he would either be a guy deep on the bench and play very little over the next two years or he could transfer and get a better opportunity to play right away. He was a class act, loved being a hog, and the reason you see less and less redshirts are for reasons like this. Guys take a chance to play at a high major and if it doesn't pan out they use their redshirt as their transfer year. You are definitely being over dramatic about Hazen and calling him a reach.

Bingo. Only 2 reaches in MA's 6 classes were Wagner (1st class after inheriting dumpster fire) and Jenkins (last-minute, August addition after losing effectively 8 players from April to Aug of 2015).


Hawg Red

Quote from: NWAHog479 on May 24, 2017, 02:28:38 pm
Hazen was ranked high than both CJ Jones & Al Bailey

This is correct.

Brachen Hazen: 3-star; composite #261
Adrio Bailey: 3-star; composite #295
C.J. Jones: 3-star; composite #362

I would say that this deep into the rankings, there probably is not a ton of separation between most players, but it certainly shows that Hazen was not a reach.

Biggus Piggus

Quote from: azhog10 on May 24, 2017, 01:27:21 pm
This is dumb. I get you on the first two, but Brachen wasn't so much of a reach. He could have contributed if we hadn't signed someone like Hall, and have Perry and Henderson lined up after that. Brachen knew he had a year to see if he could crack the rotation, and once we signed the guys we did he knew he would either be a guy deep on the bench and play very little over the next two years or he could transfer and get a better opportunity to play right away. He was a class act, loved being a hog, and the reason you see less and less redshirts are for reasons like this. Guys take a chance to play at a high major and if it doesn't pan out they use their redshirt as their transfer year. You are definitely being over dramatic about Hazen and calling him a reach.

They needed Hazen to be a power forward. He wasn't going to be a power player. They signed him because they needed a big, and that's why he was a desperate reach. Maybe he had skills, but he wasn't going to get to use them in our system.
[CENSORED]!

ShadowHawg

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 26, 2017, 11:46:50 am
They needed Hazen to be a power forward. He wasn't going to be a power player. They signed him because they needed a big, and that's why he was a desperate reach. Maybe he had skills, but he wasn't going to get to use them in our system.

They were expecting more of a davor rimac from hazen rather than a big.

daBoar

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 26, 2017, 11:46:50 am
They needed Hazen to be a power forward. He wasn't going to be a power player. [/b]They signed him because they needed a big , and that's why he was a desperate reach. Maybe he had skills, but he wasn't going to get to use them in our system.
I thought he looked big on the bench.

nwahogfan1

Quote from: HogBeliever625 on May 23, 2017, 10:42:11 am
I don't get the disappointment from everyone. We were in need of a 4 last year and this kid never saw the floor. Not very athletic. The guys we have now and coming in are better then him by a wide margin.

Real easy to say these new guys will be better but will they?   None coming in are true PF's. All of them are 1 to 3 inches shorter but probable more athletic.  I do not know their mentality or where they want to play. Hazen looks for like a 4 than any coming in.  But he liked to shoot the outside jumper and play on the outside.  He saw himself as a shooter and not a banger.  So why was he recruited?  Why did he sign?  Was he told what his role would be here?  Did he buy into it?  Their is a place in college bb for long shooters so I loved that part so i think Hazen will be a good player in time but to truly be outstanding he must get stronger and more physical.

Curious if Hazen was redshirted this year and told to gain 15 lbs and get stronger plus continue to develop his outside game would he have stayed?

ShadowHawg

Quote from: nwahogfan1 on May 26, 2017, 03:53:58 pm
Real easy to say these new guys will be better but will they?   None coming in are true PF's. All of them are 1 to 3 inches shorter but probable more athletic.  I do not know their mentality or where they want to play. Hazen looks for like a 4 than any coming in.  But he liked to shoot the outside jumper and play on the outside.  He saw himself as a shooter and not a banger.  So why was he recruited?  Why did he sign?  Was he told what his role would be here?  Did he buy into it?  Their is a place in college bb for long shooters so I loved that part so i think Hazen will be a good player in time but to truly be outstanding he must get stronger and more physical.

Curious if Hazen was redshirted this year and told to gain 15 lbs and get stronger plus continue to develop his outside game would he have stayed?

Davor Rimac was only an inch shorter with the same build and played outside. That was the role in mind for Hazen also.

We replaced him almost immediately with a wing player. Pretty obvious what they were wanting when they could have easily saved the scholarship without it hurting this next season and gone after a "power forward".

Centers and power forwards don't really exist in today's college basketball.

hawginbigd1

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on May 26, 2017, 11:46:50 am
They needed Hazen to be a power forward. He wasn't going to be a power player. They signed him because they needed a big, and that's why he was a desperate reach. Maybe he had skills, but he wasn't going to get to use them in our system.
Exactly. If he can't be a power player, MA wants a player that can physically guard 1-5 if needed and Hazen is not that guy.

Pork Twain

May 27, 2017, 06:01:54 am #87 Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 02:34:08 pm by Pork Twain
Quote from: Big Nasty 34 on May 26, 2017, 11:12:35 am
I know who we lost and I know the potential of Hazen. I was replying to a poster who had the "who?" comment whether out of ignorance or an attitude of "we don't need him" I do not know.
I said who, because he was a non-factor so far and was becoming even more buried on the depth chart thanks to incoming talent.  I do not see this as a significant loss, much like I did not see Rafe Peavey transferring as a real blow to qb depth.  Far too often I see my fellow fans make a big deal out of something that is really no deal at all.  A solid tactic that is used by those is to vastly overrate a player that could not earn any playing time and underrate players on their way in.  I think this is one of those times.  Don't exaggerate what he "might" have developed into, because that is an unknown.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Swinesong1

Dude has gotten more attention in this forum by leaving than when he was here.  Lol

ShadowHawg

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on May 26, 2017, 04:51:22 pm
Exactly. If he can't be a power player, MA wants a player that can physically guard 1-5 if needed and Hazen is not that guy.

Bailey, Cook, and Thomas can't guard 1-5 and aren't power players either.

Pancetta

I wish CMA could find more minutes for feesmen early during the exhibition season to give them some confidence. There were several times this year we could have used a confident Hazen to shoot outside when Dusty couldn't get his shot off versus bigger teams. CMA just never seems to want to give freshmen playing time unlesd they are just unquestionably better than the older players. 
But he has righted the ship doing it his way so I'll just keep cheering.
Jump Ball / Re: Time to hit the panic button?
January 06, 2022, 05:32:59 pm
Nah. Every single transfer can score. The shots will come once the pecking order gets sorted out.
Pancetta

FineAsSwine

Quote from: Swinesong1 on May 27, 2017, 11:59:26 am
Dude has gotten more attention in this forum by leaving than when he was here.  Lol

The most important players are the ones that we don't have.
Hogs up! Covid down!

Big Nasty 34

Quote from: Pork Twain on May 27, 2017, 06:01:54 am
I said who, because he was a non-factor so far and was becoming even more buried on the depth chart thanks to incoming talent.  I do not see this as a significant loss, much like I did not see Rafe Peavey transferring as a real blow to qb depth.  Far too often I see my fellow fans make a big deal out of something that is really no deal at all.  A solid tactic that is used by those is to vastly overrate a player that could not earn any playing time and underrate players on their way in.  I think this is one of those times.  Don't exaggerate what he "might" have developed into, because that is an unknown.

I understand what you're saying, and I don't think he would've been an all conference player by any means. But the kid was a Razorback and was a great teammate by all accounts. No need for the "who" comment.

Pork Twain

May 28, 2017, 05:53:34 am #93 Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 07:42:38 am by Pork Twain
Quote from: Big Nasty 34 on May 28, 2017, 01:06:06 am
I understand what you're saying, and I don't think he would've been an all conference player by any means. But the kid was a Razorback and was a great teammate by all accounts. No need for the "who" comment.
There is also no need for the over valuation of what he has done or would do here, yet there is plenty of that.  It all balances out.  Do you think he is a huge loss that the team will not be able to overcome or maybe even improve upon?
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

FineAsSwine

Quote from: Pork Twain on May 27, 2017, 06:01:54 am
I said who, because he was a non-factor so far and was becoming even more buried on the depth chart thanks to incoming talent.  I do not see this as a significant loss, much like I did not see Rafe Peavey transferring as a real blow to qb depth.  Far too often I see my fellow fans make a big deal out of something that is really no deal at all.  A solid tactic that is used by those is to vastly overrate a player that could not earn any playing time and underrate players on their way in.  I think this is one of those times.  Don't exaggerate what he "might" have developed into, because that is an unknown.

Very good point, although I did like the potential outside shooting with size (or height at least) that he brought and CMA frequently mentioned that he was a pretty good rebounder but just needed to get stronger. I'm good with it though, now I'm on the GO train.
Hogs up! Covid down!

hawginbigd1

Quote from: ShadowHawg on May 27, 2017, 05:35:17 pm
Bailey, Cook, and Thomas can't guard 1-5 and aren't power players either.
If you don't think those 3 can't stand up to 1-5 if put in the position to do so much better than Hazen you don't know what you are looking for. Hazen might be able to stand up to 3-5 but most 3's and all guards would abuse him.

Swinesong1

Apparently, he's paying his own way during redshirt year. 

Hawg Red

Good luck to the young man. I think he'll have a good career in the MAC.

nwahogfan1

Quote from: Swinesong1 on June 05, 2017, 09:58:13 am
Apparently, he's paying his own way during redshirt year.

Why would have to pay? Ball St full?  I guess close to home was a factor in picking them but I wonder where his brother is going?

The_Iceman

Good for him. That's a good spot for Hazen.