Arkansas mens' sports in SEC.

[alohawg]

    So are we ready to build the new SWC?


  1, Arkansas
  2, Houston
  3, Kansas
  4, New Mexico
  5, Oklahoma
  6, Oklahoma state
  7, TCU
  8, Texas
  9, Texas A&M
10, Texas Tech

    Two questions. 1st. Do you think that we would be better in this conference? 2nd. Would the money be that much different?

North
  1. Missouri
  2. Kansas
  3. Kansas St.
  4. Oklahoma
  5. Oklahoma State
  6. Arkansas
South
  7. TCU
  8. Texas
  9. Texas A&M
10. Texas Tech
11. Houston
12. SMU

[hogcards]

North
  1. Missouri
  2. Kansas
  3. Kansas St.
  4. Oklahoma
  5. Oklahoma State
  6. Arkansas
South
  7. TCU
  8. Texas
  9. Texas A&M
10. Texas Tech
11. Houston
12. SMU

I like it.

[moses_007]

We're a track and cross country school.  Only sports we win championships in.

[Occams Razorback]

I understand what you are saying, but the post leaves a false impression that we are sucking at everything

Since we joined the league:

None of the following (including us) have won an SEC football championship: Ole Miss, Misstake, Kentucky, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Missouri but some have never even won their division and we have x 3

Georgia, Mississippi and Missouri have not won a regular season SEC basketball title (we've won two) - we've won our division four times

Texas A&M, South Carolina and Missouri have not won an SEC Basketball tournament title (as you mentioned, we've won one)

Auburn, Texas A&M and Missouri have not won an SEC regular season baseball title (we've won two)

Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri and Arkansas have never won an SEC baseball tournament

We've won 21 SEC Indoor Track and Field titles - Florida and Tennessee are the ONLY other two schools to win ANY since we joined the league

We've won 25 SEC Outdoor Track and Field Titles - Tennessee, Florida and Texas A&M are the only other schools with ANY wins

We've won 25 SEC Cross Country titles - Alabama is the only other school to win in that time span (twice only)

We've never won an SEC Tennis title but neither has South Carolina

We've only got one Golf title but Vanderbilt (surprising), Ole Miss, Missouri, South Carolina and Texas A&M have NONE

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions

In addition, we've won 42 Men's National Championships (including the SWC days) and the next closest is LSU at 18

We punch above our weight

[greasy_corner]

I understand what you are saying, but the post leaves a false impression that we are sucking at everything

Since we joined the league:

None of the following (including us) have won an SEC football championship: Ole Miss, Misstake, Kentucky, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Missouri but some have never even won their division and we have x 3

Georgia, Mississippi and Missouri have not won a regular season SEC basketball title (we've won two) - we've won our division four times

Texas A&M, South Carolina and Missouri have not won an SEC Basketball tournament title (as you mentioned, we've won one)

Auburn, Texas A&M and Missouri have not won an SEC regular season baseball title (we've won two)

Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri and Arkansas have never won an SEC baseball tournament

We've won 21 SEC Indoor Track and Field titles - Florida and Tennessee are the ONLY other two schools to win ANY since we joined the league

We've won 25 SEC Outdoor Track and Field Titles - Tennessee, Florida and Texas A&M are the only other schools with ANY wins

We've won 25 SEC Cross Country titles - Alabama is the only other school to win in that time span (twice only)

We've never won an SEC Tennis title but neither has South Carolina

We've only got one Golf title but Vanderbilt (surprising), Ole Miss, Missouri, South Carolina and Texas A&M have NONE

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southeastern_Conference_champions

In addition, we've won 42 Men's National Championships (including the SWC days) and the next closest is LSU at 18

We punch above our weight

Excellent post. 

The OP's attitude is an embarrassment to his/her generation and hog fans in general. 

[AirWarren]

North
  1. Missouri
  2. Kansas
  3. Kansas St.
  4. Oklahoma
  5. Oklahoma State
  6. Arkansas
South
  7. TCU
  8. Texas
  9. Texas A&M
10. Texas Tech
11. Houston
12. SMU

Let's do it.

[jimmur74]

You  dumb azz! National Championship in Basketball in 94. Get the hell out of here idiot

Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991 in all sports but football, and football in 1992.

If you go with 1991 as the join date, that's 27 years.

If you go go with the 1992 join date for football, that's 26 years.

Over that time period, the football, basketball and baseball teams have combined to win exactly 1 SEC title game.

That was the basketball team in 2000, or 18 years ago

Numbers. Do. Not. Lie.

That is what you should expect of Razorback football, baseball and basketball combined.

One SEC title every 27 or 26 years.

woo pigs, etc.

[Hogvillage Idiot]

#Math. Does. Not. Lie.

[oldhawg]

SEC basketball since (and including) 1992:

Florida has won 4 SEC Tournaments.
Mississippi state has won 3 SEC Tournaments.
Arkansas, Georgia, Vanderbilt, & Old Miss have each won 1 SEC Tournament.
Kentucky has won the rest (15).
Lot of mediocre teams in the SEC during that time.

In football:

Alabama - 7 titles.
Florida - 7 titles.
Auburn - 3 titles.
LSU - 4 titles.
Georgia - 3 titles.
Sec football is pretty top heavy.

Baseball:
Has had 9 different tournament champions. Ironically, Arkansas is not one of them, but Razorback baseball has probably had the most overall success in this timespan among the three major men's team sports.

I have a different opinion from yours on cross country, and track & field, I am extremely proud of the reputation that Arkansas has established in those sports.  Especially during the John McDonnell era, I spent a lot of time overseas, and it was the Arkansas track and field program that friends and associates brought up whenever we would get into sports discussions, simply because the Razorbacks dominated and were respected for their success year in and year out.  Not sure why, but there just seems to be more interest in running events and individual performances in these events among sports fans outside of Arkansas.   

[redeye]

Because no one wants to admit it it may actually be the program that's the problem. Instead they want to blame the ad or say they just keep hiring bad coaches or 100 other excuses. Perhaps its actually the program. Being in a state that produces precious few legit sec football players and until the recent times very few sec basketball players ( & many of them dont play here ).

I think it's definitely the program's fault.  The lack of a lot of great instate talent is part of that, but it's also leadership from the PTB.  All of those other things, like hiring coaches, fall under the leadership of the PTB.  No one holds a greater role than those in the PTB, whoever they may be, so they hold the most credit/blame for our success/failure.

But there's another thing here that's never discussed.  Expectations are somewhat unrealistic, too.  Winning the SEC championship has been akin to winning the national title for over 10 years now.  There are probably well over 100 FBS programs that haven't won a national title since we've joined the SEC and the vast majority of them don't compete in the conference that's won most of those titles.  As good as he was, I suspect that JFB wouldn't have been as successful with the murderous schedule we now play every single year.

Basketball has been a bit of a letdown, even though we're still one of the top SEC teams, but we're better than ever in baseball.  When we left the SWC, we were used to winning SWC titles regularly and it seems we're refusing to acknowledge how that's no longer possible in SEC sports, unless it's track.  There's no shame in that, but some act as if there is.  So I'd like to ask those who have unrealistic expectations, and those who have lost all hope, to step away from the punch bowl and take a deep breath, because everything will be alright.

[jvanhorn]

    So are we ready to build the new SWC?


  1, Arkansas
  2, Houston
  3, Kansas
  4, New Mexico
  5, Oklahoma
  6, Oklahoma state
  7, TCU
  8, Texas
  9, Texas A&M
10, Texas Tech

    Two questions. 1st. Do you think that we would be better in this conference? 2nd. Would the money be that much different?

Doesn't matter Texas would run that league, both on and off the field.

[jvanhorn]

I like it.

I guess we didn't learn anything from our SWC days in the same league with Texas.  Well those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it--and not just in sports.  here are two rules you can count on 1. Sports--being in the same league with Texas is letting the fox in the henhouse.  2.  Politics and the history of such.  United we stand, divided we fall.

[Wooderson]

I guess we didn't learn anything from our SWC days in the same league with Texas.  Well those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it--and not just in sports.  here are two rules you can count on 1. Sports--being in the same league with Texas is letting the fox in the henhouse.  2.  Politics and the history of such.  United we stand, divided we fall.

Is it any different with Alabama?  The fact is Arkansas is irrelevant in the sports that matter. The people in sports leadership roles at the UofA are colossal failures.  Dave Van Horn is probably the greatest under achiever considering what talent and resources he has. Mike is failing. Indications are Chad Morris will fail. The Razorbacks of the 60s, 70s, and 80s are a distant memory.

[Dominicanhog]

Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991 in all sports but football, and football in 1992.

If you go with 1991 as the join date, that's 27 years.

If you go go with the 1992 join date for football, that's 26 years.

Over that time period, the football, basketball and baseball teams have combined to win exactly 1 SEC title game.

That was the basketball team in 2000, or 18 years ago

Numbers. Do. Not. Lie.

That is what you should expect of Razorback football, baseball and basketball combined.

One SEC title every 27 or 26 years.

woo pigs, etc.

92 and 94 sec regular season champs..

[Hawghiggs]

Doesn't matter Texas would run that league, both on and off the field.

So how is that any different than now?  The old guard SEC triangle is alive and well. Heck, Alabama has a cheerleader for 4 or 5 hours a day on the SEC network. The days of DeLoss Dodds are over.

[Hoggish1]

Wooderson, it's not just depressing.

It's a clear indication of what Arkansas fans should expect, year after year after year.

No hope of an SEC title.

No hope of national "relevance."

I laugh every time somebody on this board yearns for the Bobby Petrino days in football.

The BEST team Petrino ever had at Arkansas finished THIRD in the SEC West.

It does NOT matter who coaches at Arkansas.

Arkansas has been, at best, a second-tier program for long, long time now.

.

AND, when we get close in football, the SEC comes up with creative officiating to keep us in our place.

[TexArkHogFan]

Well it is obvious that some on here thinks that sports begins and ends with football.  How many athletes from Hog football and basketball have played in the Olympics?  How many in Track and Field?  Oh, I forgot, the Olympics is not a sport.

[EastexHawg]

Wooderson, it's not just depressing.

It's a clear indication of what Arkansas fans should expect, year after year after year.

No hope of an SEC title.

No hope of national "relevance."

I laugh every time somebody on this board yearns for the Bobby Petrino days in football.

The BEST team Petrino ever had at Arkansas finished THIRD in the SEC West.

It does NOT matter who coaches at Arkansas.

Arkansas has been, at best, a second-tier program for long, long time now.

.

I would never watch another game and never log on to this or any other Arkansas-related media if I believed that.

I do think your view is shared by a lot of our fans, especially the younger ones, and that is why there is such willingness to settle for what we have been getting. 

[blueridger]

dear universe, don't listen to the negative crap.  Go Hogs!

[oldbear]

Realism is stating what has occurred and stating it based on actual events or numbers. When you comment on the future, you aren't necessarily being realistic, because no one can be certain as to what the future holds.

You cam either be optimistic about the future or you can be pessimistic. You can either strive for more or you cam sit and whine and be satisfied with the past. There are plenty of teams that have long periods where they are not particularly successful and then find the right leadership and make themselves relevant.

Optimism or pessimism is a choice. Neither necessarily equates to realism. Basing future predictions on past results is safe if you pride yourself in coming back and saying I told you so. It also makes you a pretty miserable person to hang out with in general.

I choose to be guardedly optimistic. By this I mean that I will hope for the best and if we don't get there, continue to cheer and hope and encourage that the coaches and players work to improve.

If a leader doesn't improve them, wedding whine about it. We give them a fair shot to improve or we keep moving to the next one until we get there. Arkansas can be relevant in any sport. Arkansas is capable of winning a championship in any sport. It's difficult, but the only way to be certain not to succeed is to not believe you can.

[oldbear]

Sorry for the typos. My phone doesn't always like me.

[IronHog]

Well it is obvious that some on here thinks that sports begins and ends with football.

It's the SEC


There is football......then all the women's sports

[theFlyingHog]

Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991 in all sports but football, and football in 1992.

If you go with 1991 as the join date, that's 27 years.

If you go go with the 1992 join date for football, that's 26 years.

Over that time period, the football, basketball and baseball teams have combined to win exactly 1 SEC title game.

That was the basketball team in 2000, or 18 years ago

Numbers. Do. Not. Lie.

That is what you should expect of Razorback football, baseball and basketball combined.

One SEC title every 27 or 26 years.

woo pigs, etc.

Some days I long for the Soviet Union, so defeatist posts like this could be taken out and shot and the family billed for the bullet.

[Dominicanhog]

Excellent post. 

The OP is an embarrassment

[Inhogswetrust]

Well that BP team was also likely the 3rd best team in the nation on a year with two all time great defenses

BP has never ever had any "all time" great defenses. Good ones maybe but not "all time" great.

[Jimbob111]

Wooderson, it's not just depressing.

It's a clear indication of what Arkansas fans should expect, year after year after year.

No hope of an SEC title.

No hope of national "relevance."

I laugh every time somebody on this board yearns for the Bobby Petrino days in football.

The BEST team Petrino ever had at Arkansas finished THIRD in the SEC West.

It does NOT matter who coaches at Arkansas.

Arkansas has been, at best, a second-tier program for long, long time now.

.

Bobby Petrino came closer than any coach since 1980. Hate all you want but the SEC was strongest during his tenure at Arkansas and he won a few games and challenged for a title, even if he came up short. Also, don't forget Nutt challenged and shared an SEC title although the SEC was WAY down during that time.

[Jimbob111]

Bobby Petrino came closer than any coach since 1980. Hate all you want but the SEC was strongest during his tenure at Arkansas and he won a few games and challenged for a title, even if he came up short. Also, don't forget Nutt challenged and shared an SEC title although the SEC was WAY down during that time.

Pardon, SEC West title for Nutt.

[IronHog]

BP has never ever had any "all time" great defenses. Good ones maybe but not "all time" great.

LSU and Bama both had generational defenses that year


2011 Hogs would win NC this year.

[HoggyCat]

Done with losing or winning.
It's just a sport.

Welcome back, Jeffi.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Instead of congratulations, can I instead get several hundred bottles of fine whiskey so I forget about the obvious sorry state of affairs I just stated?

If you want to forget about it, you might refrain from starting threads discussing it. Just a thought.

[HogsonHicks]

Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991 in all sports but football, and football in 1992.

If you go with 1991 as the join date, that's 27 years.

If you go go with the 1992 join date for football, that's 26 years.

Over that time period, the football, basketball and baseball teams have combined to win exactly 1 SEC title game.

That was the basketball team in 2000, or 18 years ago

Numbers. Do. Not. Lie.

That is what you should expect of Razorback football, baseball and basketball combined.

One SEC title every 27 or 26 years.

woo pigs, etc.

Who needs enemies with fans like this. Some of you seem to revel in the mediocrity you supposedly loathe.

[HogFansReunited]

You do know that most years we don't even try to win the SEC tournament in baseball. Also, if you think the SEC is loaded in football, check out the strength of conference for baseball. Wouldn't surprise me to see half of the top 10 as SEC teams.

[Dominicanhog]

You do know that most years we don't even try to win the SEC tournament in baseball. Also, if you think the SEC is loaded in football, check out the strength of conference for baseball. Wouldn't surprise me to see half of the top 10 as SEC teams.

according to some, if you don't win the conference, your not very good.. Top 10 rankings, national championships and runner ups are for losers...

[Peter Porker]

Arkansas joined the SEC in 1991 in all sports but football, and football in 1992.

If you go with 1991 as the join date, that's 27 years.

If you go go with the 1992 join date for football, that's 26 years.

Over that time period, the football, basketball and baseball teams have combined to win exactly 1 SEC title game.

That was the basketball team in 2000, or 18 years ago

Numbers. Do. Not. Lie.

That is what you should expect of Razorback football, baseball and basketball combined.

One SEC title every 27 or 26 years.

woo pigs, etc.

Let's all chant SEC! SEC! SEC!

[Peter Porker]

We've done A piss poor job of running our athletic programs since then. 

We've had one good coach in football since then and arguably two in basketball.

And we ran him off! 2 SEC Championship game appearances hasn't been matched! If not for a Reggie Fish mistake and we would have won the SEC Championship in football.

[Peter Porker]

yaaaay, track

We're a powerhouse in track.

Everybody looooooves track, right?

Go track!

But we are not and everyone is catching up.

[houstonoutgusin]

Classic "big fish in a little pond" vs "little fish in a big pond" situation. The last roughly 25 years we have been trying to be a big fish in a big pond and have failed. The optimistic "we'll get them next year" crowd thinks we will eventually be that big fish but an examination of a quarter century of performance leaves little realistic reason to maintain this optimism.

My opinion - we are in over our heads in the SEC. It is time to move somewhere else. Time to become that "big fish in a little pond". Take Oklahoma as an example. In conference they will have one or two tough games a year. Get past those and you are playing for championships. Playing for championships helps in recruiting, you become an even bigger fish, etc. Just makes sense to me.

[Peter Porker]

Well that BP team was also likely the 3rd best team in the nation on a year with two all time great defenses

3rd best in polls until LSU dominated booby.

[Peter Porker]

Classic "big fish in a little pond" vs "little fish in a big pond" situation. The last roughly 25 years we have been trying to be a big fish in a big pond and have failed. The optimistic "we'll get them next year" crowd thinks we will eventually be that big fish but an examination of a quarter century of performance leaves little realistic reason to maintain this optimism.

My opinion - we are in over our heads in the SEC. It is time to move somewhere else. Time to become that "big fish in a little pond". Take Oklahoma as an example. In conference they will have one or two tough games a year. Get past those and you are playing for championships. Playing for championships helps in recruiting, you become an even bigger fish, etc. Just makes sense to me.

Whose really the boss the little fish or the top dog?

[Tusks]

How about instead of everyone bitching, the UA gets leadership that's committed to winning, coaches committed to winning, players committed to winning and FANS committed to winning.

There's nothing wrong with winning, it's not a crime.

[IronHog]

3rd best in polls until LSU dominated booby.

On the week a player died.  Remember BP took a knee just the year before


They tried to rally but that team was done by half......that system ran on IQ and prep not raw emotion

[okrazorback]

What do you expect? If we hire a good coach we fire him. If we get a lousy coach we brag about him for 5 years then when finally decide he can't beat anybody we fire him and hire someone with a worse record than he has. You say it is just because we are Arkansas I say that is not true. Good coach good record. Now I do hope that Chad Morris does as good as most of you on this board thinks he will, but if he doesn't I will blame the coach. Do you actually think if we had someone like Saban or Meyers we would not win more games than we do now. Now go ahead and tell me how stupid I am. In spite of all the learned may say I still hold my own  opinion. Good coach more wins.

[Hou-Hog]

That petrino team was third in the West no argument there but t it was also #3 in the country so they were nationally relevant

The other point that I would make is the the basketball team has made it to the SEC tournament final plenty of times so they are competing for titles. The baseball team has been to the CWS quite a number of times over the period which to be honest is more important to me than a SEC title.   

[12247]

Should we actually see anything in the thread as positive or negative?  This thread is very near the truth.  I am the one that said I didn't believe Van Horn would ever get us to those last levels.  But he makes us a contender 3 of every 5 years. 

We tend to blame recruiting for our problems in Football and basketball.  True, but maybe it shouldn't be and it isn't the total answer.  There are plenty of teams out there doing more than we do with less talent.  I contend if we utilize the talent we do get to their potential, on occasion beat a team we shouldn't and seize the moment when we can instead of being a lump on a log, eventually it will pay off.  The past 2 years in football, we should have finished no worse than 5th, overall in the conference.  We sucked.  The opportunity was there and we were not ready.

I believe we must correct what we can and be the best we can be.  When and if we put a competitive team on the field or on the court utilizing a scheme that today's Kids are interested in, we will get 1 or 2 better players than we would otherwise.  One outstanding player can make a basketball team top 20.  Two better players annually in football can make you a 10 game winner in the SEC most years and end up in the top 20 to 25 nationally.  Those 2 things are doable.

Addressing the different conference idea.  We would have better results within the conference in the above mentioned alignment than where we are today.  Bobby Petrino had 2 teams with us that likely would have won any of the other P5 Conferences at that time.  We couldn't even get out of the West with those records.  All 3 major men's sports would benefit, win wise, in just about anyother conference but where we are. 

Someday, I believe conferences will find that these huge conferences are not an overall benefit.  If conferences were found to be ideal at either 10 or 11 members and every team played every other team annually, then the conference winner could and should be the true winner annually.  This would also give more teams a chance to win something.  I suggest we need to get back to regional conferences instead of having members 3 states away like we do with Florida, Georgia and the Big 12 has W. Vir and the west coast has Colorado.  Those long distant games cost a team its diehard members.  I wonder how many fans follow us to those distant venues when we play there.  How many W. Vir fans make 4 or 5 trips west each season to see them play.  Not many I would guess.  When folks come to their senses, it will not take a half dozen assistant ADs,   needing assistants to their assistants to operate the corporation with an overall payroll 4 times what it should be.  The entire empire should be downsized.  I would love to see limits on assistant coaches downsized and instead we are upsizing.  The fuel to keep these aircraft carriers  up and running is wasteful and downright stupid, in my opinion. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

Lots of people in this thread that simply have no identity.  Figure out who or what you are and go with it, it's better to be consistent than to be wishy washie.  Sports can handle all kinds of people but the wishie washie are my least favorite.  If your pessimistic that's fine all teams need the harsh critic, if your optimistic that's great but if you are don't turn around and say your fine with whatever, that's neither pessimistic or optimistic that's wishie washie.  But ha, if your wishie washie own it!

[Hogwild]

At least give us the 2nd place finish in 2010.

Yet,  we finished as the 4th highest ranked team in our own division.

[oldman1015]

I can see it happening in baseball and basketball, but recruiting is a problem in SEC football.  Either we don't cheat well enough or the whole geographic thing.

Both

[hogsanity]

For those saying there are teams doing more with less talent, are they doing against the talent faced in the sec week in and week out in football. That is the problem with football recruiting. The Hogs are usually around 25th in recruiting BUT THAT IS ONLY ABOUT 10TH IN THE SEC.

In basketball, like it or not all that really matters anymore is the NCAAT. People measure your program on if you make the nccat, how often you make it and what you do when you get there.

As for baseball and the rest, so few care about those that they just do not move the needle.

How about instead of everyone bitching, the UA gets leadership that's committed to winning, coaches committed to winning, players committed to winning and FANS committed to winning.

There's nothing wrong with winning, it's not a crime.

WTH does that even mean? Committed to winning? Are you saying the players have not wanted to win? The coaches?

Let me guess, if they just want it more they will win, right?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

LSU and Bama both had generational defenses that year


2011 Hogs would win NC this year.

Dude, stop.  I mean I was a fan of BP too, but none of his Razorback teams would have won a NC this year. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

For those saying there are teams doing more with less talent, are they doing against the talent faced in the sec week in and week out in football. That is the problem with football recruiting. The Hogs are usually around 25th in recruiting BUT THAT IS ONLY ABOUT 10TH IN THE SEC.

In basketball, like it or not all that really matters anymore is the NCAAT. People measure your program on if you make the nccat, how often you make it and what you do when you get there.

As for baseball and the rest, so few care about those that they just do not move the needle.

WTH does that even mean? Committed to winning? Are you saying the players have not wanted to win? The coaches?

Let me guess, if they just want it more they will win, right?

Not arguing you point but you know we could have gotten better coaches a few times.  We FINALLY tried this time and failed because we were habitually six years too late.