Why do so many continue to ignore the recruiting issues

[Wild Bill Hog]

If anyone bothers to check it out there are a ton of division 2 players in the NFL right now so there are plenty of quality players available if the coaches can identify & up-coach them.
that is not even counting the ones from Arkansas and the players that would like to be razorbacks that the coaches seem to have no interest in.

They just aren't uncommon enough.

[311Hog]

Does that change the fact that teams currently using it are doing extremely well?


Okay? Do they win games for us in the NFL? The best we get out of that is to tell a recruit "Hey, we have x number of guys in the NFL," for whatever that helps.

Who are these teams?  honestly.  The "Powers" of college football are all the same names and almost none of them "exclusively" use the HUNH or tempo "all the time" they turn it on and off and play different styles depending on what is needed.  That is what i would expect to see from teams that are so loaded with talent they can do this.

one thing is also true, it seems that the NFL and others are noticing the impact the "Spread" is having on the NFL OL hell last night i heard commentators outright bash it on live tv after monday night football.

I know we aren't suppose to care about developing players for the NFL, and i am sure that i am not alone in that i cannot stand the "prairie dog" offense going as fast as possible and even screwing yourself up in the process, but you are right in that sometimes it does appear to work.

[hogsanity]

This is what I got out of his post.  I welcome hogsanity to correct me if I read his original post wrong.

Basically the OP would rather everyone accept the fate prescribed to us as Arkansas fans.

"Don't have high expectations and you'll never be disappointed"

I'm sure there's a psychological study of how childhood experiences tailor adult behavior here somewhere.

NO, I am just amazed ( although I should not be by now ) how people will continue to act as if recruiting to Fay is the same as it is for Bama or LSu or FLa. At the end of the day, while all programs including ours get good players to come from far away ( Skipper, AC, Tretola, Kirkland come to mind ) a program is built on what it gets from close to home. Where would Bama be if that state produced the same # of sec players that AR produces on average? What about FL or GA?

People act as if changing style or coach or scheme is the answer to all the problems. Or if the AD would leave, that would fix it all. The only thing that is going to fix it is getting large #'s or SEC quality players from out of state, and so far NO COACH here has been able to solve that issue. 

[311Hog]

So basically you ARE implying exactly what I described.

"WHY do so many of you think we can do better?!??  We're not going to recruit better, and a different coach won't change anything."

Yeah.  Loud and Clear.

I think what he is saying is that instead of investing so much time and energy in trying to get the AD fired, or to get Coach Beliema to run the HUNH you might want to start pushing for an improvement in the state of Arkansas High School football and you might see better, longer lasting results.

Because hire, fire, rinse repeat is never going to solve the core issue.

[hogsanity]

So basically you ARE implying exactly what I described.

"WHY do so many of you think we can do better?!??  We're not going to recruit better, and a different coach won't change anything."

Yeah.  Loud and Clear.

Again, as usual for you, wrong. As with the team's play, you see in posts what you want to see. What I am saying is the problem is NOT coach or scheme or AD, it is simply player talent. Personally, I think they sign too many Arkansas kids. In most years they could go after the top 3 in staters and get 20-22 from out of state and be a better talented team.

People can continue to want the coach fired every 4 years if they dont live up to the unattainable wants fo winning 9+ games every year, being in the seccg every 3 years, being in the playoff every 5 years and whatever other pipe dreams they have. That is not the reality for any but a handful of programs. Programs that have much better overall talent do not have that kind of record, but our fans think if we just go hire a different coach, then the Hogs would. All the while ignoring the very reason many coaches would not come here to begin with, the in state talent base is pathetic 9 out of 10 years. 

[hogsanity]

Making a clear case for a better public school system can be accomplished without denigrating fans who are not pleased with the current product on the field. 
As has been mentioned ad nauseum on here, we've recruited in a similar fashion over a period of time, and during that time we've all been witness to what an upper-tier coach can accomplish... like/respect/hate the guy whatever.

No, I'm pretty sure I have a clear understanding of what the OP has been trying to say the last few years.

A coach who just happened to show up when 1 tiny AR HS produced 3 NFL skill players in one class, and when Ar HS football as a whole produced more NFL talent in 2 years than it had in the prior 15 or 0 years combined. Coupled with a lifelong Hog fan transferring in from Mich, which meant the Hogs had 2 nfl draftees at Qb in the roster at the same time. YEa, every coach has had that every year since we joined the sec. And oh yea, that coach did not win the division or beat Bama either.

[311Hog]

Making a clear case for a better public school system can be accomplished without denigrating fans who are not pleased with the current product on the field. 
As has been mentioned ad nauseum on here, we've recruited in a similar fashion over a period of time, and during that time we've all been witness to what an upper-tier coach can accomplish... like/respect/hate the guy whatever.

No, I'm pretty sure I have a clear understanding of what the OP has been trying to say the last few years.

But that is my point.  You think Petrino did some kind of magic he didn't he got lucky just like every other successful arkansas coach has since "modern" football started in the 80's he got a "once every 5 years" group of amazing home grown talent.  If Dmac was never born Nutt would have been fired after 4 years.  If Mallett and the Warren kids were never born Petrino would have been run out of town before we ever knew he cheated on his wife.

And exactly what kind of success did Petrino have? he won 11 games once with what turned out to be a class that we are likely to never see again why? because Arkansas does not plan for classes like this, they just happen because no one is trying to improve the state of HS athletics or HS anything for that matter except in tiny pockets around this state.

Unless that is addressed no one save Nick freakin Saban will be able to do anything here.  And there is only one Saban and he isn't walking through that door.

[GoHogs1091]

Our success depends on having a once-every-now-and-then special Arkansas class, with some solid gets from out of state (typically Texas). Petrino would NOT have been as successful without that 2008 class. And now that TAMU is in the SEC, it makes it harder for us to recruit Texas.

It's just the way it is.

Our recruiting needs to be more focused into specific places for specific positions.  To me, this is what we should only be doing regarding our recruiting footprint.

Arkansas    For the usual 2-3 SEC level players that are in the State every year.

Oklahoma (particularly Tulsa, Muskogee, and Lawton)     There is usually always a good Running Back in Tulsa.  Muskogee and Lawton are very good "sleeper" places for good talent.

Texas   Just North Texas only, DFW area (including McKinney and Allen) and Tyler.  No recruiting South of Lufkin.  For Texas recruiting just Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs.

Louisiana    Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Offensive Linemen, Wide Receivers, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, and Defensive Backs

Memphis/Olive Branch

Georgia    Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Offensive Linemen, Wide Receivers, Defensive Linemen, Linebackers, and Defensive Backs

Ohio    Just for Offensive Linemen and Linebackers

Pennsylvania    Just for Offensive Linemen and Linebackers

If we want to get some JUCO players, then just recruit the Junior Colleges in Kansas, recruit Blinn in Texas, and recruit Navarro in Texas.

I didn't list Florida because it is too crowded with others who are recruiting there.  Also, we have had some issues with some of our Florida signees that has lowered our retention.  A football program such as ours, retention is upmost important.

[Knot2brite]

I am dying to hear how to make Arkansas high school football better...I have a vested interest...I am assuming either consolidation ( which won't make it better because instead of having two teams with little talent and making one big team with little talent isn't going to make it better) or we are going to start importing people from other states...which states are we getting them from

[311Hog]

I am dying to hear how to make Arkansas high school football better...I have a vested interest...I am assuming either consolidation ( which won't make it better because instead of having two teams with little talent and making one big team with little talent isn't going to make it better) or we are going to start importing people from other states...which states are we getting them from

Well if the answer was easy, it would have been done by now no? i mean when i was in HS in southern AR some of the best football players in my school never made it past Junior High school that is where alot of probably D1 talent ends up in this state.  How would you suggest we help them?

or the fact that a large portion of our state is extremely poor and caught in a pissing contest between LR and NWA ?

[311Hog]

I get what you're saying... but just so we're clear - you're saying Petrino's success at Arkansas (real, imagined or over-inflated) was primarily attributed to the luck he experienced with the in-state crop of recruits?

So during his tenure here at Arkansas, when the media referred to the guy as the offensive-minded version of Saban (not my words) they were glossing over the fact that luck in recruiting was the major factor at play in our success?

I am saying that luck played a part in it.  The guy is obviously an offensive genius no doubt, but would you call him Nick freakin Saban? nope i do not think so there is only one name in college football that goes with Saban's and that is Bear Bryant that is the kind of company he is in.  Petrino doesn't even have one Natty ring he isn't even in the same conversation.

I am also saying that since i can remember the Hogs have lived and died off the talent from inside the state.  And more to that point i have actually played with and against some of those kids when i was in HS.  And since i am from southern AR i can say that LOTS of good D1 athletes go by the wayside for any number of reasons before they even graduate HS, and if they graduate HS they are ill prepared to make it at the UofA.

I am saying there IMHO is TONS of improvement and room for improvement that could be done to AR school systems that would have a direct impact IMHO on the state of the Hogs.  Alot more good then arguing about firing a coach that seems to be doing a better then avg. job and with no real replacements in sight.

[hogsanity]

I get what you're saying... but just so we're clear - you're saying Petrino's success at Arkansas (real, imagined or over-inflated) was primarily attributed to the luck he experienced with the in-state crop of recruits?

So during his tenure here at Arkansas, when the media referred to the guy as the offensive-minded version of Saban (not my words) they were glossing over the fact that luck in recruiting was the major factor at play in our success?

Would he have been as successful if he had had at receiver the average top 4 Ar HS receivers instead of 4 nfl draftees and 2 nfl draftees at TE ( Adams, Childs, Hamilton, Wright, Gragg, DJW ).

[Knot2brite]

Well if the answer was easy, it would have been done by now no? i mean when i was in HS in southern AR some of the best football players in my school never made it past Junior High school that is where alot of probably D1 talent ends up in this state.  How would you suggest we help them?

or the fact that a large portion of our state is extremely poor and caught in a pissing contest between LR and NWA ?

I have been trying to figure it out for 18 years

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Arkansas 4*/5*According to 247 sports:

2016: DE McTelvin Agim, RB Devwah Whaley, DT Austin Capps, RB TJ Hammonds, DT Briston Guidry, OG Jake Heinrich

2015: DT Hjalte Froholdt, TE Will Gragg, TE CJ O'Grady, QB Ty Storey, DE Jamario Bell, DE Jeremiah Ledbetter

2014: DT Bijhon Jackson, OT Brian Wallace, WR Jojo Robinson, OT Frank Ragnow

2013: QB Austin Allen, RB Alex Collins, TE Hunter Henry, OG Denver Kirkland

2012: WR Keon Hatcher, DE Taiwan Johnson, RB Jonathan Williams, LB Otha Peters, TE Demetrius Dean

Note: Deatrich Wise, Jeremy Sprinkle, Jamichael Winston, Brandon Lewis, Jared Collins, Adam Mcfain, Kody Walker were all members of 2011/2012 seasons and rated 3* or lower .

These are our "elite" players. How many of them have either moved on, changed positions, or just haven't been able to get on the field?

Gonna repost this since the question never got answered

[Oklahawg]

Arkansas 4*/5*According to 247 sports:

2016: DE McTelvin Agim, RB Devwah Whaley, DT Austin Capps, RB TJ Hammonds, DT Briston Guidry, OG Jake Heinrich

2015: DT Hjalte Froholdt, TE Will Gragg, TE CJ O'Grady, QB Ty Storey, DE Jamario Bell, DE Jeremiah Ledbetter

2014: DT Bijhon Jackson, OT Brian Wallace, WR Jojo Robinson, OT Frank Ragnow

2013: QB Austin Allen, RB Alex Collins, TE Hunter Henry, OG Denver Kirkland

2012: WR Keon Hatcher, DE Taiwan Johnson, RB Jonathan Williams, LB Otha Peters, TE Demetrius Dean

Note: Deatrich Wise, Jeremy Sprinkle, Jamichael Winston, Brandon Lewis, Jared Collins, Adam Mcfain, Kody Walker were all members of 2011/2012 seasons and rated 3* or lower .

These are our "elite" players. How many of them have either moved on, changed positions, or just haven't been able to get on the field?

Notice the small number of in-state 4-star guys. Notice what happens if they don't contribute greatly (we have three right now at TE, and none have played that I am aware of...but it is early in their career, right?).

We are not loaded with in-state bodies, and certainly do not have an elite success rate with them. The places of biggest need - OL, LB, and Safety - are sorely missing on that chart above. They exist for OL, but are out-of-state players. They don't exist, plain and simple, for the other two positions. Another area of need is rush end, where we have struggled to ever land one, let alone have several on hand. Agim might fit the bill but was bulked up and moved inside.

The chirping about CBB is understood. But, when you do not have low-hanging fruit to recruit - in-state elite players - it is hard to build an elite program. Nutt and Bobby benefited from "up years" for in-state talent. CBB has yet to have one of those years, and it ain't happening this year either.

I am actually impressed with CBB's out-of-state recruiting in the above quote. There is a higher level of "hit" than I am used to from 4-star players. Usually, we get players who were gifted a 4-star designation and never pan out for us. From prior to the list, Tony Ugoh might be the last, unless Travis Swanson was a 4-star. Michael Grant? Jerico Nelson? Where is the bar for "elite performance at UA"?

[Knot2brite]

Actually consolidation would likely help quite a bit... it's been mentioned for years.  Apparently the backwards politics are deeply entrenched. 

Mississippi has half the school districts with close to the same amount of students.

Colorado for example has less than half the school districts with twice the amount of students.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2013/2013441.pdf

#s from 2011... Page 15.

I see a lot of football and honesty I don't think it will help as much as you think...some teams would be a small amount better but honestly there just isn't the talent pool out there that people think there is...there are several kids that are decent for high school but you would also see a lot of kids that would be left out of getting to play. High school athletics is a double edged sword...you want to help a kid get a chance to go to school but you also want to give all kids the opportunity to play...high school coaches are trying to win games to continue to make their house payments not to make the university of Arkansas better....they teach the game so kids can play

[Oklahawg]

25 recruits in the post I quote named as 4-star guys. JoJo and Otha are the only guaranteed whiffs - they are gone. Too early to tell on those that aren't whiffs. Hard for me to categorize any of the others as anything but able contributors. If you are wanting all-SEC, that's another discussion.

[hogsanity]

Actually consolidation would likely help quite a bit... it's been mentioned for years.  Apparently the backwards politics are deeply entrenched. 

Mississippi has half the school districts with close to the same amount of students.

Colorado for example has less than half the school districts with twice the amount of students.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2013/2013441.pdf

#s from 2011... Page 15.

Consolidation would help with much more than just athletics. But then every hole in the road couldn't have it's own school board anymore. Heck just consolidating administration into one county wide district would save close to 100 mil which could then be spent on actual education resources.

[Steef]

Notice the small number of in-state 4-star guys. Notice what happens if they don't contribute greatly (we have three right now at TE, and none have played that I am aware of...but it is early in their career, right?).

We are not loaded with in-state bodies, and certainly do not have an elite success rate with them. The places of biggest need - OL, LB, and Safety - are sorely missing on that chart above. They exist for OL, but are out-of-state players. They don't exist, plain and simple, for the other two positions. Another area of need is rush end, where we have struggled to ever land one, let alone have several on hand. Agim might fit the bill but was bulked up and moved inside.

The chirping about CBB is understood. But, when you do not have low-hanging fruit to recruit - in-state elite players - it is hard to build an elite program. Nutt and Bobby benefited from "up years" for in-state talent. CBB has yet to have one of those years, and it ain't happening this year either.

I am actually impressed with CBB's out-of-state recruiting in the above quote. There is a higher level of "hit" than I am used to from 4-star players. Usually, we get players who were gifted a 4-star designation and never pan out for us. From prior to the list, Tony Ugoh might be the last, unless Travis Swanson was a 4-star. Michael Grant? Jerico Nelson? Where is the bar for "elite performance at UA"?

Good post.

[311Hog]

Consolidation would help with much more than just athletics. But then every hole in the road couldn't have it's own school board anymore. Heck just consolidating administration into one county wide district would save close to 100 mil which could then be spent on actual education resources.

ding ding ding

[hogsanity]

I see a lot of football and honesty I don't think it will help as much as you think...some teams would be a small amount better but honestly there just isn't the talent pool out there that people think there is...there are several kids that are decent for high school but you would also see a lot of kids that would be left out of getting to play. High school athletics is a double edged sword...you want to help a kid get a chance to go to school but you also want to give all kids the opportunity to play...high school coaches are trying to win games to continue to make their house payments not to make the university of Arkansas better....they teach the game so kids can play

No, you would maybe see some kids lose the chance to stand on the sidelines and never play. Even on teams with only a handful of subs, the same 11 or 12 play almost the entire game.

I agree there is not as much talent as people seem to think.

[Knot2brite]

Consolidation would help with much more than just athletics. But then every hole in the road couldn't have it's own school board anymore. Heck just consolidating administration into one county wide district would save close to 100 mil which could then be spent on actual education resources.

I am not totally opposed to consolidation for educational reasons because some schools can't provide and everyone can benefit...but athletics wise it isn't as much of a benefit as people think

[onebadrubi]

how many 4* and/or army/under armor all americans are on the current roster?

Don't we have two, a punter and a kicker at least?

[311Hog]

It's not going to happen anytime soon, and therefore not going to impact Arkansas Razorback athletics in any meaningful way.

So if the players we get are comparable to those we've gotten in the past (however you want to spin the in-state crop you referred to earlier, the recruit rankings bell curve was not disrupted by that class), then you have to look at the development and utilization of the talent at hand.

Many tried to tout Bielema's development skills (JJ Watt FTW!) when he was on-boarded.  To say this group is underachieving is a very fair statement.

When you have Clint Stoerner questioning what he just saw after the Alcorn State game, you have fundamental issues at hand.

totally agree with this as well.  even if we "figured it out" today it would be years before we saw meaningful results at the UofA level and that IMHO is why alot of people don't think about it because it wont happen "fast enough" for them.

I mean i believe there has to be a problem, i mean why else would they take arguably our biggest DL recruit in years and turn him into a LG and then watch as out of 10 plays he makes one or two really amazing blocks, but is then abused for the other 8 plays due to his obvious inexperience at the position, side of the ball, american football in general?  why keep going with that.

[DeltaBoy]

WE have to recurit BETTER!!!!

[HawgTrough]

What?!?

Florida has played in it more than Alabama.  They played in ALL of the first 5 SEC championship games.  A total of 11 times.

Georgia has played in it 5 times.  Not as impressive as Florida, but quite a few more than us.

Sweet mercy :facepalm

[311Hog]

What's even more mind-boggling about that particular situation is OL is the ONE area people could actually point to in recent years as having an uptick in quality.  Based on the number of quality programs who were also seeking the same players... typically a pretty accurate assessment of reasonable expectation.

Precisely and add in the fact of the Texas Grad Xfer also playing, that is basically 2 "brand" new OL starting over the others that have been "in it" for longer and were pretty highly recruited guys etc. I mean new OL coach etc. everyone probably started from square one, but watching the OL play you can see talent, but you also plainly see mental mistakes lots of them.

[Piggfoot]

Gentlemen, we have a decent group of Kids here right now.  We have more 4 star talent I believe than any other coach in recent memory has had.  Lets play a little game with no winners, just for fun.  I offer that Saban and his staff could take our players and give us his players and that BAMA with our players would beat BB and Bama's players next year at Alabama.  There is that much difference in the two coaching staffs.  Great coaching plus our ability to recruit won't make us NCs annually but we would enter every season EXPECTING to win 8 games plus from 1 to 4 additional, depending on how good or bad the SEC-W overall, was that year.  With this staff, we can now enter every year pretty sure of 5 wins with another 1 to 4 wins depending on luck, injuries and how good or bad the rest of the SEC-W is.

Goodness gracious.

[hogsanity]

Precisely and add in the fact of the Texas Grad Xfer also playing, that is basically 2 "brand" new OL starting over the others that have been "in it" for longer and were pretty highly recruited guys etc. I mean new OL coach etc. everyone probably started from square one, but watching the OL play you can see talent, but you also plainly see mental mistakes lots of them.

Almost every problem the Hogs have eventually gets back to the depth issue. Not enough OL on hand to deal with an early departure and a couple guys not panning out ( which happens every where ). It is why they have had to start a FR at LB in either 3 of the 4 BB season or maybe all 4. I know Ellis and Greenlaw started as FR and now Eugene is having to ply as a FR. Where Bama and LSu are signing 3stars to be backups, the Hogs are signing unranked guys to back up their starters who are 3 stars.

[Ironhawg]

I am dying to hear how to make Arkansas high school football better...I have a vested interest...I am assuming either consolidation ( which won't make it better because instead of having two teams with little talent and making one big team with little talent isn't going to make it better) or we are going to start importing people from other states...which states are we getting them from

I can't believe you used the "c" word.  There are small school boards and administrators on their way to ride you out of town on a rail as we speak!

Seriously, I have always thought that consolidation makes a great deal of fiscal sense in those areas where it is geographically feasible.  Fewer facilities to run + fewer personnel costs to pay = savings that can be applied to make the educations received in the consolidated districts better. 

[Ironhawg]

Our recruiting needs to be more focused into specific places for specific positions.  To me, this is what we should only be doing regarding our recruiting footprint.

Texas   Just North Texas only, DFW area (including McKinney and Allen) and Tyler.  No recruiting South of Lufkin.  For Texas recruiting just Quarterbacks, Running Backs, Wide Receivers, and Defensive Backs.

You don't think it is worth the effort to recruit the Houston area?

[IntegrityHog]

Does that change the fact that teams currently using it are doing extremely well?


Okay? Do they win games for us in the NFL? The best we get out of that is to tell a recruit "Hey, we have x number of guys in the NFL," for whatever that helps.

Two words:  run and shoot.

[Razorbackers]

A coach who just happened to show up when 1 tiny AR HS produced 3 NFL skill players in one class, and when Ar HS football as a whole produced more NFL talent in 2 years than it had in the prior 15 or 0 years combined. Coupled with a lifelong Hog fan transferring in from Mich, which meant the Hogs had 2 nfl draftees at Qb in the roster at the same time. YEa, every coach has had that every year since we joined the sec. And oh yea, that coach did not win the division or beat Bama either.

Not to mention the TEs, OLM, and handful of defensive players in that time.

CBP could not have gotten any luckier with the crop of in state guys he had at the time haha.

[Razorbackers]

Yep, that settles it.

CBP was just lucky.

Yep that's what we said. Verbatim.

[Gonzo]

The problem is most of AR HS football is made up of slow ( compared to sec recruits ) small kids, or big fat tubby kids. I am sorry if that offends, but it is the truth. There are very few kids who pass the eye test for what colleges, especially the sec, are recruiting. 

Sounds like we agree, that's why I said AR HS football needs to improve.



Go Hogs! Beat Florida!

[Arkansas Fan]

Whaa? Agim has played fantastic this season. Problem is they moved him into a deep DT rotation so he doesn't see as much field as he should

Whaa? He's hardly played fantastic this season. According to star gazers and their mentality, he should have ten sacks by now. I mean, every other SEC team's five star players are beasts and tearing other teams apart, all Agim's done is have one good sack against TCU. Fact is, stars are overrated and have no say in a player's performance. What I'm seeing isn't about stars, it's about coaching, scheme, and lack of motivation that leads to quitting. There's talent on that defense, but what we saw was a joke.

[Razorbackers]

Had he not been lucky with his in-state recruiting crop we wouldn't have anyone here regretting he'd been fired... because no big loss, right? 

In the meantime, recruiting is the struggle we all know it to be, but our current head coach is getting the most out of the players we have so we shouldn't doubt things on the leadership front.  Right?

Don't worry about verbatim, generalities are easily accepted around here.

Pretty impossible to say what would have happened for CBP but if Joe Adams goes to USC and the Warren kids go to Tennessee and Mallett doesn't transfer to Arkansas, I can make an educated guess haha.

[PorkSoda]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

whether we can or can't is irrelevant, its the only choice we have

[zebradynasty]

Well schools that say the number of 4-5 stars doesn't matter....are usually the schools that don't have many! FACT:  Schools with Arkansas current level of talent rarely play in BCS bowls or win the SEC Championship.

[Piggfoot]

I don't understand why Arkansas fans don't understand why the Hogs face a steep uphill battle every year. The Problem is mis-information from the media plain and simple.
It looks to me that some of our fans are as clueless about recruiting as they claim our team was last week.

Last year Arkansas had 23 -3 star and above players. ( only 40--two star and above)  Arkansas got the only 5 star and 2 four stars, Agim,Capps and Hammonds, from that class.  The rest three stars and a boat load of 2 stars.

Alabama had 78  three stars and above, 2 five stars and 8 four stars.

Of the three stars and above Alabama had 3 1/3 times as many players

For those who do not understand, how many times would the Woodlawn Bears beat the Warren lumber jacks  or Alma beat Fayetteville or Heber Springs  beat Conway, over a 10 year period?

[311Hog]

I don't understand why Arkansas fans don't understand why the Hogs face a steep uphill battle every year. The Problem is mis-information from the media plain and simple. Last year Arkansas had 23 3 star and above players. Arkansas got the only 5 star and 2 four stars, Agim,Capps and Hammonds, from that class.  The rest three stars and a boat load of 2 stars.

Alabama had 78  three stars and above, 2 five stars and 8 four stars.

For those who do not understand, how many times would the Woodlawn Bears beat the Warren lumber jacks  or Alma beat Fayetteville over a 10 year period?

not to damn many for $500 Alex

[zebradynasty]

I don't understand why Arkansas fans don't understand why the Hogs face a steep uphill battle every year. The Problem is mis-information from the media plain and simple. Last year Arkansas had 23 3 star and above players. Arkansas got the only 5 star and 2 four stars, Agim,Capps and Hammonds, from that class.  The rest three stars and a boat load of 2 stars.

Alabama had 78  three stars and above, 2 five stars and 8 four stars.

For those who do not understand, how many times would the Woodlawn Bears beat the Warren lumber jacks  or Alma beat Fayetteville over a 10 year period?

There it is! I'll also add that I'm not saying rating players is an exact science a whole lot of variables in play. However, it's just a numbers thing. If our 3 star turns out to be a 2 star it hurts us far more than if say Alabama has 5-4 star turns out to be a 3 star!

[hogsanity]

I don't understand why Arkansas fans don't understand why the Hogs face a steep uphill battle every year. The Problem is mis-information from the media plain and simple.
It looks to me that some of our fans are as clueless about recruiting as they claim our team was last week.

Last year Arkansas had 23 -3 star and above players. ( only 40--two star and above)  Arkansas got the only 5 star and 2 four stars, Agim,Capps and Hammonds, from that class.  The rest three stars and a boat load of 2 stars.

Alabama had 78  three stars and above, 2 five stars and 8 four stars.

Of the three stars and above Alabama had 3 1/3 times as many players

For those who do not understand, how many times would the Woodlawn Bears beat the Warren lumber jacks  or Alma beat Fayetteville or Heber Springs  beat Conway, over a 10 year period?

but but but the coach is supposed to be able to scheme around the other team having better players. We are supposed to win 9+ every year by some sort of voodoo magic.

[Piggfoot]

but but but the coach is supposed to be able to scheme around the other team having better players. We are supposed to win 9+ every year by some sort of voodoo magic.

If our Coach could do that magic he would be Coaching some place for 7 or more million rather than 4 million at Arkansas.

[Ironhawg]

but but but the coach is supposed to be able to scheme around the other team having better players. We are supposed to win 9+ every year by some sort of voodoo magic.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't expect 9+ wins every year.  I don't know what I really expect in wins-losses.  I expect us to be in the upper half of the SEC West year in and year out.  I expect us to compete for the SEC West a couple of times a decade.  I expect us to be in the top 25 more often than not.  I don't expect 50 point blowouts to happen very often if ever.
I realize that recruiting to Arkansas is difficult.  I realize that this built-in limitation will probably keep Arkansas from ever competing for a national championship in football.  Do I like that?  No.  I don't like the idea of being a perennial opponent for the big boys, but it is what it is. 

[Swine-as-wine]

No no no haven't you read the other threads?  Demographics aren't the problem, HS football in Arkansas isn't the problem, geography isn't the problem.  Your MINDSET that is the problem.  That is just "woe is me, poor Arkansas" thinking.  You think we can't have nice things and so we don't.  If you would just start to believe and expect 5* recruits THEN we will get them.

Who the hell thinks like that? Anyone thinking like that, most likely moved out of Arkansas a long time ago.

[hawgtime]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

serious!

[jwilliamson67]

Arkansas has played in the championship game 3 times. Uga and Uf x 2

nutt twice and ford once.  petino zero.

[hobhog]

Wait. We have recruiting issues!?

A lot of our issue is the SECW. I think we recruit competitively. Maybe not championship across the board every year, but we have proven in past we can play with anybody and have some players.

If we were anywhere but the SECW I don t think we are having this conversation.

WPS- beat Florida.

[Andrew Hogfan]

[quote  i mean when i was in HS in southern AR some of the best football players in my school never made it past Junior High school that is where alot of probably D1 talent ends up in this state.  How would you suggest we help them?
[/quote]

This.  I went to school in central Arkansas and this was the case(graduated in 01). Idk how to fix this.  But I do believe if LR schools were better, the hogs would be too.  Once again,  Idk how to fix this.  Also,  I would like to know why people are against consolidation.  I seriously do not know.