Why do so many continue to ignore the recruiting issues

[hogsanity]

that WHOEVER is the coach of the football hogs will face? Is it because they think it makes the state look bad to admit that AR HS football is horrible. That the state produces so few sec calibre players somehow diminishes the state as a whole? Is it because they see the issue, but know it can't be fixed, so they want to act like it does not exist? 

[TNhawgfan]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

[311Hog]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

Because it has "happened" before.  But no one seems to grasp the fact that the odds are it will not consistently happen.  talking less than 50% chance....

[jkstock04]

that WHOEVER is the coach of the football hogs will face? Is it because they think it makes the state look bad to admit that AR HS football is horrible. That the state produces so few sec calibre players somehow diminishes the state as a whole? Is it because they see the issue, but know it can't be fixed, so they want to act like it does not exist? 

#3 most likely scenario.

But supposedly, the way Bielema builds teams long run is to have all juniors and seniors stepping up every year. Theory is that even though many may be 2/3 star players...that by the time they are sent to step up they have been in the program so long they are equal to a 4/5 star player.

Maybe he has not been here long enough for this to take effect fully.

[maknbacn]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

We might as well believe that because Arkansas never has and never will out recruit those schools on 4 and 5 star players, not going to happen. As I have said before, it will be a huge year for the hogs if they get to play in a SEC championship game, like the 2 before. Being a contender every year, not going to happen, has never been that way. Is Bielema the best coach for us? Who knows but no coach will out recruit those schools. We need a very good coach with great scheme and get the players they have over achieving. We get an occasional 4 or 5 star and thats where we will be every year in this conversation.

[The OTR]

that WHOEVER is the coach of the football hogs will face? Is it because they think it makes the state look bad to admit that AR HS football is horrible. That the state produces so few sec calibre players somehow diminishes the state as a whole? Is it because they see the issue, but know it can't be fixed, so they want to act like it does not exist?

we sign the best kids we can

[HawgTrough]

We might as well believe that because Arkansas never has and never will out recruit those schools on 4 and 5 star players, not going to happen. As I have said before, it will be a huge year for the hogs if they get to play in a SEC championship game, like the 2 before. Being a contender every year, not going to happen, has never been that way. Is Bielema the best coach for us? Who knows but no coach will out recruit those schools. We need a very good coach with great scheme and get the players they have over achieving. We get an occasional 4 or 5 star and thats where we will be every year in this conversation.

Arkansas has played in the championship game 3 times. Uga and Uf x 2

[hoghiker]

We might as well believe that because Arkansas never has and never will out recruit those schools on 4 and 5 star players, not going to happen. As I have said before, it will be a huge year for the hogs if they get to play in a SEC championship game, like the 2 before. Being a contender every year, not going to happen, has never been that way. Is Bielema the best coach for us? Who knows but no coach will out recruit those schools. We need a very good coach with great scheme and get the players they have over achieving. We get an occasional 4 or 5 star and thats where we will be every year in this conversation.

About where I'm at. I'm not sure where the expectations come from. We recruit pretty good from a national perspective. In the SEC we're way down the list. Coaching matters. Players make the game. Bama is dominant because they got both the coach and the players. Not sure what Arkansas is going to do about that. Auburn's recruiting is lights out better than ours. We do well with the football players we get but beating the top tier programs consistently is a tuff call. We've beaten Auburn and LSU more times than you'd think based on our recruiting. You can be happy about that or sad. Not that hard of a call for me.

[S.A.D.C]

We might as well believe that because Arkansas never has and never will out recruit those schools on 4 and 5 star players, not going to happen. As I have said before, it will be a huge year for the hogs if they get to play in a SEC championship game, like the 2 before. Being a contender every year, not going to happen, has never been that way. Is Bielema the best coach for us? Who knows but no coach will out recruit those schools. We need a very good coach with great scheme and get the players they have over achieving. We get an occasional 4 or 5 star and thats where we will be every year in this conversation.

No no no haven't you read the other threads?  Demographics aren't the problem, HS football in Arkansas isn't the problem, geography isn't the problem.  Your MINDSET that is the problem.  That is just "woe is me, poor Arkansas" thinking.  You think we can't have nice things and so we don't.  If you would just start to believe and expect 5* recruits THEN we will get them.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Apparently we need an uncommon coach to compete.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

we sign the best kids we can

We sure do. Problem is many of these kids have turned into flops recently. We have several kids on both sides of the ball that were 4* or army/under armor all americans and aren't living up to that. Its up to the coaches to get the most out of the kids though

[hogcard1964]

that WHOEVER is the coach of the football hogs will face? Is it because they think it makes the state look bad to admit that AR HS football is horrible. That the state produces so few sec calibre players somehow diminishes the state as a whole? Is it because they see the issue, but know it can't be fixed, so they want to act like it does not exist?

So, what you're saying is, it doesn't really matter who the coach is?  It's predetermined that we're going to suck now?

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Much of this falls on the little rock school district.  We need more funding in our public schools and we need it to go where its supposed to instead of disappearing under the table. When Little rock football is great, Arkansas football is great.

MAKE ARKANSAS GREAT AGAIN!

[hogsanity]

We sure do. Problem is many of these kids have turned into flops recently. We have several kids on both sides of the ball that were 4* or army/under armor all americans and aren't living up to that. Its up to the coaches to get the most out of the kids though

how many 4* and/or army/under armor all americans are on the current roster?

[hogatheart]

About where I'm at. I'm not sure where the expectations come from. We recruit pretty good from a national perspective. In the SEC we're way down the list. Coaching matters. Players make the game. Bama is dominant because they got both the coach and the players. Not sure what Arkansas is going to do about that. Auburn's recruiting is lights out better than ours. We do well with the football players we get but beating the top tier programs consistently is a tuff call. We've beaten Auburn and LSU more times than you'd think based on our recruiting. You can be happy about that or sad. Not that hard of a call for me.

I believe what you are saying, but you can argue the other side of it and say we have beaten these programs mentioned in the past years with the exception of Bama. What you are saying is percentage wise, it just won't continue because we can't consistently recruit top classes to reload. There is no doubt some great talent on this team, but they need help, especially AA.

[hogsanity]

I believe what you are saying, but you can argue the other side of it and say we have beaten these programs mentioned in the past years with the exception of Bama. What you are saying is percentage wise, it just won't continue because we can't consistently recruit top classes to reload. There is no doubt some great talent on this team, but they need help, especially AA.

It leads to the problem the Hogs always seem to have. They never have a really good all around team all at once. Really good rb's - no wr's to help unload the box. Really good overall offense - defense is bad. Really stout defense, offense can't move the ball. This year, good back, good qb, lots of receiving talent, and the OL can't keep AA from getting destroyed.

That is what happens when your recruiting base is weak, you just never build up the depth required to be good all over the field. 

[Atlhogfan1]

that WHOEVER is the coach of the football hogs will face? Is it because they think it makes the state look bad to admit that AR HS football is horrible. That the state produces so few sec calibre players somehow diminishes the state as a whole? Is it because they see the issue, but know it can't be fixed, so they want to act like it does not exist?

Because they believe it is fixable. 

Now I will say, just because our base isn't good in comparison to our conference, we shouldn't excuse away our coaches taking the wrong recruits, poorly planning out the numbers at each position, poorly executing recruiting,...  We have to have some standards besides "well we are ranked in the 20s or 30s again".  Our recruiting base is going to make it hard to ever build "SEC" defenses.  But we should be able to recruit enough kids to fill positions and give ourselves a chance to develop them. 

[jdevers]

Arkansas has played in the championship game 3 times. Uga and Uf x 2

What?!?

Florida has played in it more than Alabama.  They played in ALL of the first 5 SEC championship games.  A total of 11 times.

Georgia has played in it 5 times.  Not as impressive as Florida, but quite a few more than us.

[Gonzo]

Much of this falls on the little rock school district.  We need more funding in our public schools and we need it to go where its supposed to instead of disappearing under the table. When Little rock football is great, Arkansas football is great.

MAKE ARKANSAS GREAT AGAIN!

Oh sure, as if the other "debate" isn't fun enough, turn this into the GHSD 


I do agree though, Arkansas HS football needs to improve greatly for the Hogs to have a decent local pool, and not just LR.



Go Hogs!   Beat Florida!

[hogsanity]

Because they believe it is fixable. 

Now I will say, just because our base isn't good in comparison to our conference, we shouldn't excuse away our coaches taking the wrong recruits, poorly planning out the numbers at each position, poorly executing recruiting,...  We have to have some standards besides "well we are ranked in the 20s or 30s again".  Our recruiting base is going to make it hard to ever build "SEC" defenses.  But we should be able to recruit enough kids to fill positions and give ourselves a chance to develop them. 

Ok, they believe it is fixable. How is it fixable? Most schools get a lot of their players from within 300 miles of their campus. Are they going to move in families with better players into that 300 mile radius?

[EastArkHog 47]

The offense's in the SEC are changing, speed on defense is more important than size. Arkansas and lswho are the only SEC teams who are still built to stop a power running attack. That said, with all the teams in Arkansas who run the spread and throw the ball a lot more than they run it, that it would equate to more D1 players in the state.

[Atlhogfan1]

Ok, they believe it is fixable. How is it fixable? Most schools get a lot of their players from within 300 miles of their campus. Are they going to move in families with better players into that 300 mile radius?

Don't ask me.

My solution is move the campus including football facilities to Texarkana.

Their solutions seem to be just keep hiring firing hiring, pay recruits and have no standards to what type of kid we recruit.  That = top 10-15 classes and we are off and running. 

[Kevin]

swap places with Houston.  we could become champions of the aac

[hogsanity]

Oh sure, as if the other "debate" isn't fun enough, turn this into the GHSD 


I do agree though, Arkansas HS football needs to improve greatly for the Hogs to have a decent local pool, and not just LR.



Go Hogs!   Beat Florida!

The problem is most of AR HS football is made up of slow ( compared to sec recruits ) small kids, or big fat tubby kids. I am sorry if that offends, but it is the truth. There are very few kids who pass the eye test for what colleges, especially the sec, are recruiting. 

[Atlhogfan1]

The offense's in the SEC are changing, speed on defense is more important than size. Arkansas and lswho are the only SEC teams who are still built to stop a power running attack. That said, with all the teams in Arkansas who run the spread and throw the ball a lot more than they run it, that it would equate to more D1 players in the state.

No competition in Ark HS football by comparison.

Facilities tend to not be what they are in other states.

Offseason programs and coaching staffs in other states are different.

And the biggest issue is population and most specifically African American population in Arkansas.  Our biggest city and with the "right" demographics is a public high school mess in terms of football and basketball is the focus. 

Spread offenses in Texas' high schools IMO are hurting Texas, OU and to an extent A&M.  Although, Sumlin is trying to get it turned around and looks to be making some progress. 

[TNhawgfan]

swap places with Houston.  we could become champions of the aac

Yeah, their coach's stock has dropped drastically after that SMU beatdown. That game could have personally cost him millions

[Wild Bill Hog]

Much of this falls on the little rock school district.  We need more funding in our public schools and we need it to go where its supposed to instead of disappearing under the table. When Little rock football is great, Arkansas football is great.

MAKE ARKANSAS GREAT AGAIN!

Have you notified the FBI, IRS, etc. of where this under the table money is going?

[hogatheart]

Ok, they believe it is fixable. How is it fixable? Most schools get a lot of their players from within 300 miles of their campus. Are they going to move in families with better players into that 300 mile radius?

HEY!! That's not unheard of,.......lol just sayin

[Steef]

Because many like to foolishly believe that we can coach up 3 star talent to outperform Bama, A+M, Auburn, and LSU's 5 star talent

OTOH... some people foolishly believe we have a choice.

[Rocket23]

No, no, no... Read his post again.  We have been to the SEC Championship three times -  twice vs Florida and once vs Georgia.  He didn't convey his message well.

What?!?

Florida has played in it more than Alabama.  They played in ALL of the first 5 SEC championship games.  A total of 11 times.

Georgia has played in it 5 times.  Not as impressive as Florida, but quite a few more than us.

[pignparadise]

Arkansas has played in the championship game 3 times. Uga and Uf x 2

And yes Alabama  was on probation two of those years we played in the SEC championship

[Sed76]

So the athletes we need aren't here in the state. Why can't we find someone who can recruit some from other states? Not saying it would be easy to get 4 and 5 star athletes here but surely there is someone out there who could sway a few kids.

[Danny J]

No competition in Ark HS football by comparison.

Facilities tend to not be what they are in other states.

Offseason programs and coaching staffs in other states are different.

And the biggest issue is population and most specifically African American population in Arkansas.  Our biggest city and with the "right" demographics is a public high school mess in terms of football and basketball is the focus. 

Spread offenses in Texas' high schools IMO are hurting Texas, OU and to an extent A&M.  Although, Sumlin is trying to get it turned around and looks to be making some progress.

Any time recruiting is brought up this ^^^ should be posted somewhere on that page. Great post

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Have you notified the FBI, IRS, etc. of where this under the table money is going?

I haven't, but maybe Brad Bolding can give them a head start. Yep I went there lol

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Basically the OP would rather everyone accept the fate prescribed to us as Arkansas fans.

"Don't have high expectations and you'll never be disappointed"

I'm sure there's a psychological study of how childhood experiences tailor adult behavior here somewhere.

Thread could've been renamed after the song "(come on) get happy"

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

how many 4* and/or army/under armor all americans are on the current roster?

gonna take a minute to find all that info, but I'll get it!

[hoghiker]

So the athletes we need aren't here in the state. Why can't we find someone who can recruit some from other states? Not saying it would be easy to get 4 and 5 star athletes here but surely there is someone out there who could sway a few kids.

Unless we start passing out large cash payments (which I'm opposed too), I don't see this happening. It hasn't happened before. No real reason to think it will in the future.

[Ironhawg]

Basically the OP would rather everyone accept the fate prescribed to us as Arkansas fans.

"Don't have high expectations and you'll never be disappointed"

This is what I got out of his post.  I welcome hogsanity to correct me if I read his original post wrong.

[cosmodrum]

Our success depends on having a once-every-now-and-then special Arkansas class, with some solid gets from out of state (typically Texas). Petrino would NOT have been as successful without that 2008 class. And now that TAMU is in the SEC, it makes it harder for us to recruit Texas.

It's just the way it is.

[12247]

Gentlemen, we have a decent group of Kids here right now.  We have more 4 star talent I believe than any other coach in recent memory has had.  Lets play a little game with no winners, just for fun.  I offer that Saban and his staff could take our players and give us his players and that BAMA with our players would beat BB and Bama's players next year at Alabama.  There is that much difference in the two coaching staffs.  Great coaching plus our ability to recruit won't make us NCs annually but we would enter every season EXPECTING to win 8 games plus from 1 to 4 additional, depending on how good or bad the SEC-W overall, was that year.  With this staff, we can now enter every year pretty sure of 5 wins with another 1 to 4 wins depending on luck, injuries and how good or bad the rest of the SEC-W is.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Arkansas 4*/5*According to 247 sports:

2016: DE McTelvin Agim, RB Devwah Whaley, DT Austin Capps, RB TJ Hammonds, DT Briston Guidry, OG Jake Heinrich

2015: DT Hjalte Froholdt, TE Will Gragg, TE CJ O'Grady, QB Ty Storey, DE Jamario Bell, DE Jeremiah Ledbetter

2014: DT Bijhon Jackson, OT Brian Wallace, WR Jojo Robinson, OT Frank Ragnow

2013: QB Austin Allen, RB Alex Collins, TE Hunter Henry, OG Denver Kirkland

2012: WR Keon Hatcher, DE Taiwan Johnson, RB Jonathan Williams, LB Otha Peters, TE Demetrius Dean

Note: Deatrich Wise, Jeremy Sprinkle, Jamichael Winston, Brandon Lewis, Jared Collins, Adam Mcfain, Kody Walker were all members of 2011/2012 seasons and rated 3* or lower .

These are our "elite" players. How many of them have either moved on, changed positions, or just haven't been able to get on the field?

[ricepig]

Gentlemen, we have a decent group of Kids here right now.  We have more 4 star talent I believe than any other coach in recent memory has had.  Lets play a little game with no winners, just for fun.  I offer that Saban and his staff could take our players and give us his players and that BAMA with our players would beat BB and Bama's players next year at Alabama.  There is that much difference in the two coaching staffs.  Great coaching plus our ability to recruit won't make us NCs annually but we would enter every season EXPECTING to win 8 games plus from 1 to 4 additional, depending on how good or bad the SEC-W overall, was that year.  With this staff, we can now enter every year pretty sure of 5 wins with another 1 to 4 wins depending on luck, injuries and how good or bad the rest of the SEC-W is.

So, you base a statement on a proposition that will never occur, you need better coaching.

[311Hog]

Gentlemen, we have a decent group of Kids here right now.  We have more 4 star talent I believe than any other coach in recent memory has had.  Lets play a little game with no winners, just for fun.  I offer that Saban and his staff could take our players and give us his players and that BAMA with our players would beat BB and Bama's players next year at Alabama.  There is that much difference in the two coaching staffs.  Great coaching plus our ability to recruit won't make us NCs annually but we would enter every season EXPECTING to win 8 games plus from 1 to 4 additional, depending on how good or bad the SEC-W overall, was that year.  With this staff, we can now enter every year pretty sure of 5 wins with another 1 to 4 wins depending on luck, injuries and how good or bad the rest of the SEC-W is.

Let me play a little game with you.  There is only one Saban.

Game over.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Star gazers continue to ignore the fact that we, along with everyone else, have highly rated players not do a damn thing on the field. Darius Winston, Reeve Koehler, are just two names that come to mind. Currently, heralded five-star, McTelvin Agim, has failed to live up to the star rating hype. Star gazers have no explanation for this...

Whaa? Agim has played fantastic this season. Problem is they moved him into a deep DT rotation so he doesn't see as much field as he should

[311Hog]

Whaa? Agim has played fantastic this season. Problem is they moved him into a deep DT rotation so he doesn't see as much field as he should

You mean because he isn't some combination of Lawerance Taylor, JJ Watt, and Derrick Thomas he isn't an abject failure AMIRITE?

[IntegrityHog]

The offense's in the SEC are changing, speed on defense is more important than size. Arkansas and lswho are the only SEC teams who are still built to stop a power running attack. That said, with all the teams in Arkansas who run the spread and throw the ball a lot more than they run it, that it would equate to more D1 players in the state.

I think this spread and HUNH is a fad.  So does CBB.  He is building a power team because that is a tried and true model that has worked for decades.  Also helps get our kids in the NFL.

[BigSexyHog]

What?!?

Florida has played in it more than Alabama.  They played in ALL of the first 5 SEC championship games.  A total of 11 times.

Georgia has played in it 5 times.  Not as impressive as Florida, but quite a few more than us.

Wow.  Try going back and read his post again.   This time try and think what was said.

[Paul]

maybe we should rely more on juco transfers

[RME]

I think this spread and HUNH is a fad.  So does CBB.  He is building a power team because that is a tried and true model that has worked for decades.  Also helps get our kids in the NFL.

Does that change the fact that teams currently using it are doing extremely well?


Okay? Do they win games for us in the NFL? The best we get out of that is to tell a recruit "Hey, we have x number of guys in the NFL," for whatever that helps.

[razored]

If anyone bothers to check it out there are a ton of division 2 players in the NFL right now so there are plenty of quality players available if the coaches can identify & up-coach them.
that is not even counting the ones from Arkansas and the players that would like to be razorbacks that the coaches seem to have no interest in.