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Let’s talk fouls and free throws.....

Started by hogz11, December 11, 2017, 07:34:35 am

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hogz11

I didn't get to watch the Minnesota game, but I did listen to most of it on the radio. I don't know why but I find Matt Zimmerman absolutely hilarious as a color commentator.

From listening to the game, it sounded like ticky tack fouls were constantly being called. Yet the Hogs only shoot 13 free throws to Minnesota's 37? THIRTY FREAKIN SEVEN FREE THROWS?!?!?!?!!

How does that happen at home? Can someone enlighten me on why the disparity in free throw attempts. Minnesota almost tripled the amount of free throw attempts the Hogs got.

I find it very satisfying that the Hogs still won handidly. Just cannot believe how Minnesota got 24 more free throw attempts.....

jjdlc

Minnessota's MO has been driving the lane and getting to the line a lot, so it wasn't surprising for them to get more FT than us.  However, it did get a bit out of hand.  In the first half, the officials completely forgot they had whistles when Arkansas was on offense.  Had they not, the game would have been out of hand by half time.  It was a little better in the second half, but not much.

 

Cinco de Hogo

I'm sure both teams and most teams we play will have 4 & 5 star players just like us and I'm pretty sure every one of those teams play defense.

Now is it Mike's defense in particular the refs don't like or is it Arkansas?  It's been going on for as long as I remember.

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 11, 2017, 07:55:54 am
I'm sure both teams and most teams we play will have 4 & 5 star players just like us and I'm pretty sure every one of those teams play defense.

Now is it Mike's defense in particular the refs don't like or is it Arkansas?  It's been going on for as long as I remember.

It is what the Hogs do and where they do it. Where is it easiest to see a foul? When players are 30 ft from the basket putting their hands on the ballhandler or reaching in/slapping at the ball. Or around the rim slapping down when trying to block shots. It ha ALWAYS been an issue for teams playing defense like the Hogs do.

And, what teams draw more fouls? Teams that drive hard to basket. In the name of offense the rules have been changed so much that if you can get to a point 6ft or closer, and contact above the waist or on the arms is going to draw a foul and usually it is going to a shooting a foul.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hview

Teams will attack Arkansas to get them in foul trouble, in this instance it back fired on Minnesota. We'll probably see more teams go right at Gafford, trying to draw a hack on the arm.   

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 08:42:08 am
It is what the Hogs do and where they do it. Where is it easiest to see a foul? When players are 30 ft from the basket putting their hands on the ballhandler or reaching in/slapping at the ball. Or around the rim slapping down when trying to block shots. It ha ALWAYS been an issue for teams playing defense like the Hogs do.

And, what teams draw more fouls? Teams that drive hard to basket. In the name of offense the rules have been changed so much that if you can get to a point 6ft or closer, and contact above the waist or on the arms is going to draw a foul and usually it is going to a shooting a foul.

This is BS, ALL teams do the same things, anyone with eyes can see teams doing exactly what you said to Arkansas players.  Why isn't it a foul then?  Because all refs are biased.  I've seen very few games in my lifetime of any sort any two teams that was called evenly.  I truly believe referees have to purposely put their own stamp on a ballgame.

niels_boar

December 11, 2017, 01:58:45 pm #6 Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 02:53:47 pm by niels_boar
Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 08:42:08 am
It is what the Hogs do and where they do it. Where is it easiest to see a foul? When players are 30 ft from the basket putting their hands on the ballhandler or reaching in/slapping at the ball. Or around the rim slapping down when trying to block shots. It ha ALWAYS been an issue for teams playing defense like the Hogs do.

And, what teams draw more fouls? Teams that drive hard to basket. In the name of offense the rules have been changed so much that if you can get to a point 6ft or closer, and contact above the waist or on the arms is going to draw a foul and usually it is going to a shooting a foul.

our possesions per PF
4.2 (Samford)
3.7 (Bucknell)
3.5 (Fresno)
4.5  (OU)
4.0 (UNC)
4.5 (UConn)
3.8 (Houston)
3.2 (Colorado St.)
2.8 (Minny)

Let's not pretend that the foul calls are some objective truth that is determined solely by the way we play defense and the opposition strategy.  It's not like Trae Young never headed to the rim when we played OU.  The whims of the officiating crew obviously come into play.  We haven't been especially fouly this season.  Minnesota's opponents have fouled more often in only two games, one being Western Carolina  at home and the other at Providence.  So, it wasn't typical for them either. UConn and Bucknell are top-100 in drawing fouls.  Houston is top-40 and better than Minny at #44.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 11, 2017, 01:51:21 pm
This is BS, ALL teams do the same things, anyone with eyes can see teams doing exactly what you said to Arkansas players.  Why isn't it a foul then?  Because all refs are biased.  I've seen very few games in my lifetime of any sort any two teams that was called evenly.  I truly believe referees have to purposely put their own stamp on a ballgame.









Again, I will suggest you go join an officiating association and go call some games. The team getting called for more fouls, and their fans, always claim bias. I went to a school last week that I had never been to before, in a town I had never been to before. Didn't take 4 minutes of the girls game before we were being accused of being homers because the foul count was like 5-1.

You have rarely seen a game that YOU THINK was called fairly. When you go into games thinking the refs are going to be biased, you will see bias. It is funny though, Hog fans thinking the refs were out to get them in a game the Hogs won by 18. More of that red headed step child persecution paranoia that is pervasive among hog fans ( and I would guess many other fan groups as well ). 

People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HogHomer

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 03:11:22 pm








Again, I will suggest you go join an officiating association and go call some games. The team getting called for more fouls, and their fans, always claim bias. I went to a school last week that I had never been to before, in a town I had never been to before. Didn't take 4 minutes of the girls game before we were being accused of being homers because the foul count was like 5-1.

You have rarely seen a game that YOU THINK was called fairly. When you go into games thinking the refs are going to be biased, you will see bias. It is funny though, Hog fans thinking the refs were out to get them in a game the Hogs won by 18. More of that red headed step child persecution paranoia that is pervasive among hog fans ( and I would guess many other fan groups as well ).
For me it's not that the refs are out to get them but the differences in fouls against us. It was pretty clear in the last game that we were getting called for touch fouls and then wouldn't get calls like over the back that occurred multiple times during the game.

It's the consistency in which they are called. If they aren't biased then they are plain bad at their job.

phadedhawg

Daniel Gafford's foul situation is the only thing that gets me a bit heated.   He earns a few every game, usually three fouls and he's at risk for picking up a couple of anticipation calls and fouling out.  I hope he learns to adjust to how the officials are handling him because there is a huge difference in our offensive flow when he's not in the game. 

When he went down after that rebound, our season flashed before my eyes.  Losing him is losing a chance at the NCAA tourney.

SPAL

Seemed like we took a lot of jump shots (and made a lot) but I remember them slashing to the basket more than we did. Maybe I'm misremembering and that stats don't back that up. Still, the only reason they werent beaten by 30 was because they got to the line.

hawgfan4life

A high percentage of the Times MInnesota drove were fouls and we would not get the same call.  Watch a replay of their big guy when he had 4 fouls in the second half.  Refs absolutely protected him and refused to foul him out on two blatantly bad no calls.

hawgfan4life


 

Dr. Starcs

Refs suck. But our guys have got to learn to be more disciplined with their positioning and technique.

azhog10

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 08:42:08 am
It is what the Hogs do and where they do it. Where is it easiest to see a foul? When players are 30 ft from the basket putting their hands on the ballhandler or reaching in/slapping at the ball. Or around the rim slapping down when trying to block shots. It ha ALWAYS been an issue for teams playing defense like the Hogs do.

And, what teams draw more fouls? Teams that drive hard to basket. In the name of offense the rules have been changed so much that if you can get to a point 6ft or closer, and contact above the waist or on the arms is going to draw a foul and usually it is going to a shooting a foul.
How many Arkansas fouls happened 30-40 feet from the basket? Far fewer than this tired drum you keep beating. Majority of Ark fouls happened at the rim. Exactly where they weren't being called on Minny.

SPAL

I knew what kinda night we were in for on like Minnesota's 3rd or 4th possession they missed a shot, beard had perfect position and blocked out text book and their guy went over his back and got a rebound. Beard still cane away with the ball but no foul was called.

farfromgroovins

I like CMA but he is no Nolan when it comes to working the refs. Nolan was a master at getting the refs to let the Hogs play HawgBall.

Bball is called a lot closer then I remember. Of course when you are on D and you get a foul for having your hands on the ball handler, you complain and want them to "let you play." If you have the ball and someone has their hands on you, you want a foul called. It's all about perspective.

Last time I read the rule book, I saw no where that stated fouls and freethrows had to be even.

HogHomer

Quote from: farfromgroovins on December 11, 2017, 05:01:24 pm
I like CMA but he is no Nolan when it comes to working the refs. Nolan was a master at getting the refs to let the Hogs play HawgBall.

Bball is called a lot closer then I remember. Of course when you are on D and you get a foul for having your hands on the ball handler, you complain and want them to "let you play." If you have the ball and someone has their hands on you, you want a foul called. It's all about perspective.

Last time I read the rule book, I saw no where that stated fouls and freethrows had to be even.
But officiating should be fair and balanced. If you can't see it that it was not being called fair on both sides for the same type of fouls then you are the biased one.

farfromgroovins

Quote from: HogHomer on December 11, 2017, 05:11:47 pm
But officiating should be fair and balanced. If you can't see it that it was not being called fair on both sides for the same type of fouls then you are the biased one.

How do you judge that? By the number of fouls and freethrows?

joeyself

I saw SOME fouls I disagreed with--from the angle I was shown on the TV--but overall, my impression was that Arkansas was fouling WAY too much, and got away with it in that game.  Having a deep bench means the coaching staff doesn't have to fret as much as a team that only plays 8, but still, it may well catch up with them sooner and/or later.

JcS
"Real failure always starts with someone doing something stupid."  Anna Conroy in SLINGS AND ARROWS

cc

Quote from: hawgfan4life on December 11, 2017, 03:38:23 pm
A high percentage of the Times MInnesota drove were fouls and we would not get the same call.  Watch a replay of their big guy when he had 4 fouls in the second half.  Refs absolutely protected him and refused to foul him out on two blatantly bad no calls.

Only thing i can argue is that there was more than 2 obvious bad calls.  Our bigs were getting shoved on their shots and then getting called on clean blocks.  Also standing straight up with arms straight up.  No leaning in or sliding underneath on a lot of the calls.

cc

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 03:11:22 pm








Again, I will suggest you go join an officiating association and go call some games. The team getting called for more fouls, and their fans, always claim bias. I went to a school last week that I had never been to before, in a town I had never been to before. Didn't take 4 minutes of the girls game before we were being accused of being homers because the foul count was like 5-1.

You have rarely seen a game that YOU THINK was called fairly. When you go into games thinking the refs are going to be biased, you will see bias. It is funny though, Hog fans thinking the refs were out to get them in a game the Hogs won by 18. More of that red headed step child persecution paranoia that is pervasive among hog fans ( and I would guess many other fan groups as well ). 



Any high school or junior high school game I've been to in the last 4-5 years on AAA and AAAA level have been atrociously officiated on both ends. 

TexArkHogFan

They had 37 attempts at the free throw line but they only made 24.  I think our pressure D had something to do with that just like as the game wears on their 3s stop falling.  They get tired.
There are all kinds of Lions, Tigers and Bears in college football.  But there is only one Razorback.  Beware the Tusks!!! They are coming

HogHomer

Quote from: farfromgroovins on December 11, 2017, 05:16:53 pm
How do you judge that? By the number of fouls and freethrows?
You judge it by watching the game. I don't care if another team get more free throws. What I care is when there is a discrepancy in the type of fouls called on each team. You have one team getting called for touch fouls but the refs swallow their whistles on over the backs on the other end of the court.

 

mhuff

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 11, 2017, 01:51:21 pm
This is BS, ALL teams do the same things, anyone with eyes can see teams doing exactly what you said to Arkansas players.  Why isn't it a foul then?  Because all refs are biased.  I've seen very few games in my lifetime of any sort any two teams that was called evenly.  I truly believe referees have to purposely put their own stamp on a ballgame.

To me this game is a juxtaposition of the regular foul pattern. The officials must have become delirious and forgotten this was a home game for the Hogs. Normally when we play on the road we are going to be called for an abnormally large number of fouls. The refs put their heads together and have to slow things down when the Hogs go on a run. Check out the typical Vanderbilt game. The Zebras call touch fouls on us , slow down the action, and score points on us without the clock running. Also, they get our bigs in trouble and  force them to the bench; therefore, the home team can then forge ahead to that 20 point lead before we call time out. The thing we used to do under Nolan and Sutton is not cower down to the refs. You get some techs to publicize the horrible officiating, this results in better calls, and the troops rally instead of just going peacefully into the night with another "L" in the loss column. You keep pouring fresh troops to keep the pressure on ,and you take them out of their game instead of allowing the officials to take you out of yours. Sure, we lost plenty of road games, but it wasn't done without a fight. I will give CMA credit on this last game. I could hear him coaching his butt off.

What happened this last game was Gafford went out of the game ,and they opened the floodgates for their players driving down the lanes. Our guards are not moving their feet fast enough to stay in front of them. However, here's the deal for the thousandth time. If Gafford and Thompson are in the game together , they don't have the pressure to stop the plays going down the lane. There is help down low and One of our bigs throws that trash outta there and good things happen. Now look back to the Houston game. They kept us pushed out on the floor and did not allow us to penetrate. Then we made longer passes that got picked off .and they took it to us. They did to us what I would like to see us do to everybody else. Their game plan was spot on.

N HOG

It didn't take Minnesota long to figure out all they had to do was bull their way down the lane, lean into the defender, throw up a shot and get a foul called.

Who were those refs anyway?

hogsanity

Quote from: HogHomer on December 11, 2017, 05:56:55 pm
You judge it by watching the game. I don't care if another team get more free throws. What I care is when there is a discrepancy in the type of fouls called on each team. You have one team getting called for touch fouls but the refs swallow their whistles on over the backs on the other end of the court.

2 or 3 years ago, hand checking was made a point of emphasis/ Basically, you can put a hand on the ball handler as long as you take it back off quickly, but if you put a hand back on them after that, before they pick up their dribble, it is a foul. Again, another rule interpretation designed to help the offense. Every rule change/interpretation the last few years has been designed to help the offense because people were whining about low scoring games. Contact on a shooter, especially in close, yep blow the whistle to help the offense. Offense goes  over the back ( btw there is no over the back rule, it is actually a push if you call it ) for a rebound, let it go to help the offense.

But someone above pointed out the Hogs never seem to adjust to how the game is being called.

And one of the biggest issues for MN was one of their better players got two quick fouls, sat the entire 1st half, came back in to start the 2nd half and picked up 2 more quick fouls. While the FT count might have been lopsided, MN was actually hurt more by fouls on one player than were the Hogs.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: hogz11 on December 12, 2017, 10:14:35 am
Exactly

What if one team is playing pressure D all over the court but the other is playing a zone, not trying for steals, etc and their opponent is settling for jump shots. I can guarantee the team playing in your face D all over the court is going to have more fouls, probably significantly more, than the passive defensive team.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Youngsta71701

Quote from: farfromgroovins on December 11, 2017, 05:16:53 pm
How do you judge that? By the number of fouls and freethrows?
Nope, by watching the game. If you know anything about basketball you know what you see.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: N HOG on December 11, 2017, 07:58:37 pm
It didn't take Minnesota long to figure out all they had to do was bull their way down the lane, lean into the defender, throw up a shot and get a foul called.

Who were those refs anyway?
Yep, my point exactly. I said the same thing.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 10:23:58 am
What if one team is playing pressure D all over the court but the other is playing a zone, not trying for steals, etc and their opponent is settling for jump shots. I can guarantee the team playing in your face D all over the court is going to have more fouls, probably significantly more, than the passive defensive team.
Duh, you know a foul when you see one. It doesn't matter what type of defense you're playing a foul is a foul.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

hogsanity

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on December 12, 2017, 10:34:12 am
Duh, you know a foul when you see one. It doesn't matter what type of defense you're playing a foul is a foul.

Funny though, what YOU deem to be a foul and what is actually a foul is likely not the same thing. According to some here the Hogs have not committed a real foul in about 30 years.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 10:40:24 am
Funny though, what YOU deem to be a foul and what is actually a foul is likely not the same thing. According to some here the Hogs have not committed a real foul in about 30 years.

I like real fouls, and I don't have a problem with all of them being called.  Fouls are not being called when it's our player being fouled, that's the problem.  If your going to call a touch foul on the perimeter call a hack foul underneath or anywhere else for that matter.

farfromgroovins

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on December 12, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Nope, by watching the game. If you know anything about basketball you know what you see.

I know 3 things to be true.....death, taxes, and home fans crying each time a foul is called against their team.

There is no conspiracy. Some bad calls or missed calls but wearing a Razorback does not mean biased officiating.

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 12, 2017, 11:00:02 am
I like real fouls, and I don't have a problem with all of them being called.  Fouls are not being called when it's our player being fouled, that's the problem.  If your going to call a touch foul on the perimeter call a hack foul underneath or anywhere else for that matter.

I think we have this discussion before, but it may not have been you. One thing that impacts calls more than anything is the position of the refs. With a 3 man crew, then same guy may be in the trail position, thus calling out top on one end, and be on the baseline on the other end for multiple trips per game. He may not be a ref that calls touch fouls, or he may call those but lets a lot go underneath. Meanwhile, going the other way the baseline guy who would be out top on the other end may be just the opposite. So now you have a guy who calls touch fouls up top calling on the defensive end of a team that likes to play handsy defense.

You do not see this as much in 2 man mechanics because those guys rotate so often they are rarely in the same spot for more than a trip or two.

So much of basketball officiating is subjective. A foul is supposed to be anything that knocks the other player off balance or impedes. But the ref on the call has his own idea of what knocking off balance or impeding looks like.   
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HogHomer

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 11:47:20 am
I think we have this discussion before, but it may not have been you. One thing that impacts calls more than anything is the position of the refs. With a 3 man crew, then same guy may be in the trail position, thus calling out top on one end, and be on the baseline on the other end for multiple trips per game. He may not be a ref that calls touch fouls, or he may call those but lets a lot go underneath. Meanwhile, going the other way the baseline guy who would be out top on the other end may be just the opposite. So now you have a guy who calls touch fouls up top calling on the defensive end of a team that likes to play handsy defense.

You do not see this as much in 2 man mechanics because those guys rotate so often they are rarely in the same spot for more than a trip or two.

So much of basketball officiating is subjective. A foul is supposed to be anything that knocks the other player off balance or impedes. But the ref on the call has his own idea of what knocking off balance or impeding looks like.
Earlier you said what another poster views as a foul and what is actually a foul are likely different. Does that mean the same for the refs if one is calling it one way and one is calling it another?

I think most of us are just tired of the unbalance and want to see the same fouls called on both ends of the court. Is that too much to ask of refs to be that consistent for 40 minutes?

hogsanity

Quote from: HogHomer on December 12, 2017, 11:57:32 am
Earlier you said what another poster views as a foul and what is actually a foul are likely different. Does that mean the same for the refs if one is calling it one way and one is calling it another?

I think most of us are just tired of the unbalance and want to see the same fouls called on both ends of the court. Is that too much to ask of refs to be that consistent for 40 minutes?

I am sure what one ref calls a foul may not be what another calls a foul. My view of impeding may be different than what my partner calls impeding.

But foul count/ft count is not a good way to judge either because like I said if one team is playing in your shirt man D and the other is playing a soft zone or one team is driving to the basket and the D is trying to block every shot while the other team is settling for jump shots, the foul count and ft count is likely going to be lop sided.

If you really want to see what I am talking about, watch the refs. watch where they are when they call certain fouls. See if one ref is calling touch fouls out front whenever he is up top. What you will often see is that the ref is consistent, he is just not always the one up top, but when he is he is calling "touch" fouls both ways.

Basketball is the only one of the main sports where the officials rotate. In baseball, if I start out behind the plate I am there the entire game for both teams. My strike zone is the same for both teams. In football if I start out at back judge I am there the entire game for both teams.  My view of PI is the same for both teams. In basketball though, on a 3 man crew, I may be in a different spot every trip depending on stoppages. Actually in a 3 man crew I may be on the side or up top on the same possession depending on rotation.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HogHomer

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 12:55:12 pm
I am sure what one ref calls a foul may not be what another calls a foul. My view of impeding may be different than what my partner calls impeding.

But foul count/ft count is not a good way to judge either because like I said if one team is playing in your shirt man D and the other is playing a soft zone or one team is driving to the basket and the D is trying to block every shot while the other team is settling for jump shots, the foul count and ft count is likely going to be lop sided.

If you really want to see what I am talking about, watch the refs. watch where they are when they call certain fouls. See if one ref is calling touch fouls out front whenever he is up top. What you will often see is that the ref is consistent, he is just not always the one up top, but when he is he is calling "touch" fouls both ways.

Basketball is the only one of the main sports where the officials rotate. In baseball, if I start out behind the plate I am there the entire game for both teams. My strike zone is the same for both teams. In football if I start out at back judge I am there the entire game for both teams.  My view of PI is the same for both teams. In basketball though, on a 3 man crew, I may be in a different spot every trip depending on stoppages. Actually in a 3 man crew I may be on the side or up top on the same possession depending on rotation.
But I have not been talking about foul count or how many ft another team is shooting. Idk how many times I can say it. I am watching the game and seeing fouls being called on us that arent being called on the other team. Is it every game, no. So it's not all the refs. Refs need to be held more accountable than they are. And this isn't a we're up in everyone's face so we get more fouls. I get that our defense leads to a higher amount of fouls. I'm just  wondering why a ref can't see a foul just because of the type of  defense a team is running but call it the other way just  because we're pressing. I am talking about when we go straight up under a basket we get called while their player on 4 fouls can walk backwards while swatting our guys arms and no foul.

I don't care about the difference in foul count or ft count. I care about an evenly called game on both sides. If someone fouls call it. Don't call it on one side then swallow your whistles on the other. And all I am getting from your argument is that the refs need to do better. Alot better.

hogsanity

Quote from: HogHomer on December 12, 2017, 01:30:38 pm
But I have not been talking about foul count or how many ft another team is shooting. Idk how many times I can say it. I am watching the game and seeing fouls being called on us that arent being called on the other team. Is it every game, no. So it's not all the refs. Refs need to be held more accountable than they are. And this isn't a we're up in everyone's face so we get more fouls. I get that our defense leads to a higher amount of fouls. I'm just  wondering why a ref can't see a foul just because of the type of  defense a team is running but call it the other way just  because we're pressing. I am talking about when we go straight up under a basket we get called while their player on 4 fouls can walk backwards while swatting our guys arms and no foul.

I don't care about the difference in foul count or ft count. I care about an evenly called game on both sides. If someone fouls call it. Don't call it on one side then swallow your whistles on the other. And all I am getting from your argument is that the refs need to do better. Alot better.

And again I ask was it the same ref calling it on one end and not the other or was it a different ref?

I know there is a crew I see doing big10 games alot. One guy on the crew calls alot of push in the back fouls on rebounding, but another guy on that crew I do not think I have ever see call that.

I used to say the same things some of you say, until I put on the stripes and actually had to go decide when to blow the whistle and when not to. It is a whole lot easier sitting in my living room than being on the court.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

JONAS

Quote from: jjdlc on December 11, 2017, 07:47:30 am
Minnessota's MO has been driving the lane and getting to the line a lot, so it wasn't surprising for them to get more FT than us.  However, it did get a bit out of hand.  In the first half, the officials completely forgot they had whistles when Arkansas was on offense.  Had they not, the game would have been out of hand by half time.  It was a little better in the second half, but not much.

Just like it will be in SEC play.

JONAS

Quote from: hogz11 on December 12, 2017, 03:33:26 pm
The Hogs were driving in the Minnesota game and it simply wasn't being called.

I agree that FTA discrepancy isn't everything.

But 13-37 at Bud Walton is ridiculous. If you go back and watch the game, it's inexcusable.

That's like an SEC road game.

hogsanity

Quote from: hogz11 on December 12, 2017, 03:33:26 pm
The Hogs were driving in the Minnesota game and it simply wasn't being called.

I agree that FTA discrepancy isn't everything.

But 13-37 at Bud Walton is ridiculous. If you go back and watch the game, it's inexcusable.

I guess the refs were out to get the Hogs in a non conf home game that could only help to make the sec look better if the Hogs won, but hey lets try and screw over the Hogs for.................................... sorry cant come up with one reason for them to have done that. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

JONAS

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 04:29:27 pm
I guess the refs were out to get the Hogs in a non conf home game that could only help to make the sec look better if the Hogs won, but hey lets try and screw over the Hogs for.................................... sorry cant come up with one reason for them to have done that. 

It seems like they are just about every game.

Artex501

 Actually watched it and thought Arkansas was getting the calls until the game was in their (hogs) favor, then it seemed to lean the other way before evening out towards the end. Thought at the time CMA was taking the jacket off for show when we got a few against us in a row. Thing is I went into the game thinking the hogs would get the calls, SEC is good this year.

jbigs77

The refs have had it out for the Hogs for decades. Not just basketball but football to. It has cost us at least 3 NCs that I know of. What's so bad it that it is sometimes so oblivious. It has helped to have replay, but I've seen even replays not get it right. NCAA. National Committee Against Arkansas.

JONAS

Quote from: jbigs77 on December 12, 2017, 04:41:26 pm
The refs have had it out for the Hogs for decades. Not just basketball but football to. It has cost us at least 3 NCs that I know of. What's so bad it that it is sometimes so oblivious. It has helped to have replay, but I've seen even replays not get it right. NCAA. National Committee Against Arkansas.

It sure seems that way.  I have definitely thought that since we joined the SEC.

LRHawg

Quote from: hogz11 on December 12, 2017, 03:33:26 pm
If you go back and watch the game, it's inexcusable.

It really was. I went back and watched and it was even worse than when I watched it live...

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 12, 2017, 04:29:27 pm
I guess the refs were out to get the Hogs in a non conf home game that could only help to make the sec look better if the Hogs won, but hey lets try and screw over the Hogs for.................................... sorry cant come up with one reason for them to have done that.

Have you every seen any evidence that the SEC cares what Arkansas does?  We are nothing but a doormat team or if you want, a rent a win team for the conference blue bloods.  I've seen SEC refs call a bad game against us we WE were playing a rent a win team.   That's when you know good and well the SEC doesn't care if we win a single game.  Vanderbilt is more important to them than we are.

mizzouman

Quote from: hogz11 on December 11, 2017, 07:34:35 am
I didn’t get to watch the Minnesota game, but I did listen to most of it on the radio. I don’t know why but I find Matt Zimmerman absolutely hilarious as a color commentator.

From listening to the game, it sounded like ticky tack fouls were constantly being called. Yet the Hogs only shoot 13 free throws to Minnesota’s 37? THIRTY FREAKIN SEVEN FREE THROWS?!?!?!?!!

How does that happen at home? Can someone enlighten me on why the disparity in free throw attempts. Minnesota almost tripled the amount of free throw attempts the Hogs got.

I find it very satisfying that the Hogs still won handidly. Just cannot believe how Minnesota got 24 more free throw attempts.....
Disparity in FT attempts doesn't necessarily happen because one team has more fouls.  Usually it's the type of foul.  Teams who are aggressive towards the basket usually shoot more FT.

hogsanity

Quote from: mizzouman on December 13, 2017, 07:47:14 am
Disparity in FT attempts doesn't necessarily happen because one team has more fouls.  Usually it's the type of foul.  Teams who are aggressive towards the basket usually shoot more FT.

To that point, did anyone watch the Texas/Mich game last night? There were only 27 FT's shot in the entire game, 12 by Mich and 15 by Texas, yet there were 34 total fouls ( oddly enough 17 on each team ). Why so few FT's, because of where and what most of the fouls were. Most were either when a player started to drive, or were on rebounds. Very few fouls on shot attempts. Neither team reached the bonus in the seconds half until under 5 minutes to go, iirc.

People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE