Heart-rate training . . . .

[McKdaddy]

I underwent a cardio/metabolic assessment a couple of weeks ago.  From that my trainer built a workout program for me to follow that involves a certain amount of time each week spent working out in zones 1 & 2 and a certain amount of time spent in zones 3 & 4 (I don't recall much time in zone 5).

I bought a HRM.

I've been doing the workouts for a week now, with the awareness of staying in the prescribed zones during the workout.  A brief example: one workout involves interval training between only zones 1 & 2 ("small" interval training, obviously); whereas, another workout (my spinning class) involves dramatic interval training between zones 1 - 4.

This is my first time to do HR training.  Previously, I'd go to the gym 4-5 days per week, with 1 day being weights (high reps, low weight, little rest), a couple of days being 30-45 minutes of cardio (done at some random pace that would wind me, with no pre-determined plan), and a couple of days of spinning.

Anyone have any commentary concerning HR training?  Any thoughts or opinions to pass along?

[Pulled(PP)pork]

I'm just starting to do this myself and learning on the fly.  I can say one thing, it's difficult (while running) to keep my heartrate in Zone 2, as I almost have to slow to a walk.  Last nights run was supposed to be a Z2 run, which is 60-70% of my max, I was reaching 95% at times, but all in all my avg was 156bpm.


Pulled out...

[McKdaddy]

I'm just starting to do this myself and learning on the fly.  I can say one thing, it's difficult (while running) to keep my heartrate in Zone 2, as I almost have to slow to a walk.  Last nights run was supposed to be a Z2 run, which is 60-70% of my max, I was reaching 95% at times, but all in all my avg was 156bpm.


Pulled out...

Agreed.

I've been surprised to learn how big the lag is in my heartbeat when moving b/t zones. For example, when I move from zone 1 to zone 2 (in terms of increasing speed or resistance or grade, depending on the machine I'm on), it takes 45 secs to a minute before my heart rate reaches zone 2, despite the increase in my breathing feeling the change much sooner.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Agreed.

I've been surprised to learn how big the lag is in my heartbeat when moving b/t zones. For example, when I move from zone 1 to zone 2 (in terms of increasing speed or resistance or grade, depending on the machine I'm on), it takes 45 secs to a minute before my heart rate reaches zone 2, despite the increase in my breathing feeling the change much sooner.

or getting it to come down to fall into a prescribed zone


PP

[gijoejd]

I do have a honest question.  Do you smoke?

Only reason I ask is because the Air Force used to have a bike test that measured your heart rate.  I was a skinny 18 yr old that should have passed it with flying colors.  I was very nervous the first time I took the test and purposely DID NOT smoke prior as I figured they were trying to measure my "wellness".  Back then I smoked a pack a day (I have since quite).  I failed the first test.  The test administrator had me go outside and smoke a cigarette.  I came right back in and aced the test. 

Point is, different things can affect your heart rate.  If you smoke, it will affect your heart rate.  If you sit there and constantly watch your heart rate monitor, it will affect your heart rate. 

I do know that keeping your heart in a zone or getting it to go between the different "zones" is all in the training process and that is how they measure cardiovascular strength/endurance. 

[McKdaddy]

I do not smoke

[Hogsmo Kramer]

What exactly are you guys expecting to get out of HR training?

I don't mean that in a smartass manner but from my experience there are certain applications where it is useful but all to often is sold as a false silver bullet for certain things like advanced fat loss, etc. where it actually has limited capabilities.

To me the efficacy of HR training is specifically related to areas of performance training but is not as applicable to general health and fitness goals where it's benefits are generally limited.

[Hogfly]

What exactly are you guys expecting to get out of HR training?

I don't mean that in a smartass manner but from my experience there are certain applications where it is useful but all to often is sold as a false silver bullet for certain things like advanced fat loss, etc. where it actually has limited capabilities.

To me the efficacy of HR training is specifically related to areas of performance training but is not as applicable to general health and fitness goals where it's benefits are generally limited.

I'm with you. If you're working on increasing your VO2 max for competitive cycling or something that is one thing. If you're just wanting to be fit and burn fat, then heart rate training is overthinking it IMO. Basic HIIT will accomplish the same without the heart rate monitor and fidgety data monitoring.


That being said, if it motivates someone and they enjoy it, go for it.

[McKdaddy]

What exactly are you guys expecting to get out of HR training?

Good question.

3 things come to mind for me, HK:  accountability, something to keep me on target, and something different.  The trainer is helping me be accountable to my workouts.  The HRM (and the trainer) is helping me to keep on target and not slough off (which is what I used to do w/ my cardio, not taking it seriously and lazying through it).  And lastly I'm looking for something different as I had gotten tired of doing the similar things, the same way at the gym year-after-year.

[McKdaddy]

if it motivates someone and they enjoy it, go for it.

Hopefully I'm still motivated 3 months from now.  I'm working out harder now than before beginning heart-rate training, which feels good, but once the new wears off I need to be able to maintain.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Good question.

3 things come to mind for me, HK:  accountability, something to keep me on target, and something different.  The trainer is helping me be accountable to my workouts.  The HRM (and the trainer) is helping me to keep on target and not slough off (which is what I used to do w/ my cardio, not taking it seriously and lazying through it).  And lastly I'm looking for something different as I had gotten tired of doing the similar things, the same way at the gym year-after-year.

Gotcha in that case I can see the merit in using one.

The only time I really implemented HR training with everyday clients I trained (not athletes) was usually with ones that were new to training or not working hard enough or didn't have enough training experience to know if they were or not without a visual cue. The HR monitor often helped to provide that cue and took the guesswork out of it for them.

Of course there're tons of variables that effect HR but as long as I was conscious of them and my client was it was a helpful tool in those specific instances until they became a little more experienced in their training.

I don't particularly have anything against HR training since it has benefits in certain situations (yours for example) unfortunately though some trainers don't truly understand it enough and try to use it in instances where it's actually not that beneficial.

Good luck though I'm glad you found something that provides a little extra motivation in the gym since that's never a bad thing.

[McKdaddy]

Thanks for the feedback, HK.

[pigtrino]

Google Mark Allen and look for the article about heart rate training on his site.  If you don't know him, he dominated triathlons in his prime.  He trained under Phil Maffetone.  He put in a lot of time/miles staying aerobic to build his base.  He was burning fat while the other triathletes were bonking.  If you aspire to be an endurance athlete, I would set aside an off-season to try some low intensity (aerobic) training to build a solid base.

[McKdaddy]

Update --

Today was my first cardio metabolic re-test. He said my results were better than last time, stating that "(my) numbers through the progressions improved compared to (my) original test", and that "this time (I) burned fat the entire test".

Sounds good, right? Of course, I would expect improved results on the test. However, I slept crappy last night, dragged-arse all day at work, had moderately high stress today, and ate unfulfilling foods. I was also not looking forward to the claustrophobic mask used for the test and the absence of water during the approximately 20-minute test. My mind wasn't in the right place for the test, so I fretted not exhibiting the improvement I hoped for.


Here are my heart rate zones from my first test a few weeks ago:





Here are the heart rate zones from today's test:

[McKdaddy]

I don't know what a lot of the above numbers exactly mean for my workouts, such as VO2, fat utilized, and carbs utilized. I simply do the workouts staying in the prescribed zones as I mentioned in the initial post of this thread. But how my VO2 is affected or fat utilized correlates....I haven't a clue. I know that my dress pants and jeans fit better, ha/ha.

I didn't know what to expect in the numbers above, from the first test to the second test, except that they would likely improve. One thing I didn't expect is that the top end of my heart rate zones declined. I would have assumed that my body would get accustomed to the workouts, therefore the top end of the heart rate zones would have been increased in order to make me work harder to continue making gains. With the top end of the heart rate zones instead having gone down, it seems like I would now be working with somewhat less intensity than I did over the previous few weeks. I must be thinking backwards about this, right? Can someone set me straight?

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I don't know what a lot of the above numbers exactly mean for my workouts, such as VO2, fat utilized, and carbs utilized. I simply do the workouts staying in the prescribed zones as I mentioned in the initial post of this thread. But how my VO2 is affected or fat utilized correlates....I haven't a clue. I know that my dress pants and jeans fit better, ha/ha.

I didn't know what to expect in the numbers above, from the first test to the second test, except that they would likely improve. One thing I didn't expect is that the top end of my heart rate zones declined. I would have assumed that my body would get accustomed to the workouts, therefore the top end of the heart rate zones would have been increased in order to make me work harder to continue making gains. With the top end of the heart rate zones instead having gone down, it seems like I would now be working with somewhat less intensity than I did over the previous few weeks. I must be thinking backwards about this, right? Can someone set me straight?

The reason your HR went down is because its becoming more efficient and doesn't have to beat as much to push the amount of blood around needed for the exercise you're doing.

Your stroke volume and overall cardiac output has likely gone up thus the lower HR.

You're still doing the same amount of work but your body is better at doing it now which is what you wanna see.

You're adapting to the stressors of the exercise you've been performing and your overall efficiency has gone up which is a good thing.

Congrats!

[McKdaddy]

The reason your HR went down is because its becoming more efficient and doesn't have to beat as much to push the amount of blood around needed for the exercise you're doing.

Your stroke volume and overall cardiac output has likely gone up thus the lower HR.

You're still doing the same amount of work but your body is better at doing it now which is what you wanna see.

You're adapting to the stressors of the exercise you've been performing and your overall efficiency has gone up which is a good thing.

Congrats!

Solid explanation. Thanks for that.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Solid explanation. Thanks for that.

Anytime, keep up the good work!