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Wise Words from Pel

Started by WilsonHog, February 09, 2009, 08:31:15 pm

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WilsonHog

February 09, 2009, 08:31:15 pm Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 08:42:01 pm by WilsonHog
This was Pel's recent response (as documented in Nate Allen's column this morning), to a reporter's question about the program turning the corner after wins over OU and Texas:

"I don't think you can make those type of statements based on an X number of games," Pelphrey replied on Jan. 8. "I think you do that on seasons. Correct me if I'm wrong. We haven't bought any rings, we haven't cut down any nets, and nobody has given us a trophy. Until that happens, then we've got nothing we can really cling to that says the season is over."

board

"nothing we can really cling to"

Agree with that.

 

Razorod

i really hope pel gets things going here. he could, i said could, be a great fit here. even though i get a bit negative on here, i am pulling for him and the hogs. i am always hopeful that the next game is a win.
Hoping the Hogs basketball fortunes change for the better this season.

tolerati

I am pulling for him too. As Nolan as pointed out and as others have pointed about about Coach K at Duke and Calipari at Memphis...Pel needs time. Not only are the freshman growing up, Pel is also having to grow as a coach. In time we will be rewarded.
"Show me a quarterback who isn't cocky, and I'll show you a quarterback who isn't worth a damn." - Darrell Royal

gohogs13

I have seen some posts on this board talking about bringing Nolan back and how great he was and don't get me wrong I loved the Nolan Years, but some people forget that Nolan came in after Eddie Sutton with a 40 minutes of hell run and gun and it didn't work his first 2 years and fans then were questioning everything he did and how his run and gun game just would not work since Sutton ran more of the half court offense and look how things turned out.  I wish some people would relax and give Pelphrey a chance.  Now if by next year or the year after we are still 1-7 in the SEC, then yes time for a change, but he does need more of a chance than some are giving him.

NuttinItUp

Everyone predicted before the season that we were going to be down because of being super young. The wins over OU and Texas just elevated expectations, and now that we are back down where everyone predicted, some people are up in a huff over it. Give the guy time to build the program.

3kgthog

Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.


jonesark™

Quote from: NuttinItUp on February 09, 2009, 09:27:25 pm
Everyone predicted before the season that we were going to be down because of being super young. The wins over OU and Texas just elevated expectations, and now that we are back down where everyone predicted, some people are up in a huff over it. Give the guy time to build the program.

sometimes i wish we just would have lost those two games....then this wouldn't suck so bad!! ya'll know what i mean..

NuttinItUp

Quote from: 3kgthog on February 09, 2009, 09:50:20 pm
Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.
Predicted preseason to finish last in the SEC West in a down SEC year. That comes close to being such a prediction.

Jeephog

Sometimes you simply have to take your medicine.  Just like football season. 

HawgAdvocate

February 09, 2009, 10:16:17 pm #10 Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 10:18:12 pm by HawgAdvocate
Quote from: 3kgthog on February 09, 2009, 09:50:20 pm
Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.



Honestly though, when else have we ever been picked to finish last in the West? I can see (maybe) in Heath's first year when we had near zero guards on the roster coming in (sound familiar?), but at least we had an experienced frontcourt (nothing to brag about though). But Pel's first group of freshman are light year's ahead of Heath's.

These kids can beat top 10 teams on any given night. We're not a team filled with untalnted players, no one can make that point. We'll have a roster size in double digitts next season, come hell or high water. Just like you expect all of Petrino's freshman to take over next year, so soon will the ones we have now for Pel.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

Oliver

Quote from: 3kgthog on February 09, 2009, 09:50:20 pm
Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.



This point just can't seem to be hammered home enough. 

WBOBO

How many years has Rick Pitino been at Louisville, and how long has it taken him to get his program back to the days of Denny Crum basketball.  It's been a while guys.  Give Pel five years, and if you
don't see the improvement with which you want, then start looking elsewhere for someone to guide
the program.  But GEEZ, give the guy a break.  I bet if  Patrick Beverly were here (and Monk to finish out the season) some of you naysayers would be talking Sweet 16 at this point.  Yes!  Sweet 16.  You
really don't know how much we miss a starting shooting guard who could also play point, and not
to mention two tours of SEC experience.  Oh and I forgot, how many rebounds per game
did Beverly average in SEC games. 
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.

 

NuttinItUp

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 10:23:32 pm
This point just can't seem to be hammered home enough. 
I don't know how you are picked to finish lower than last, but maybe that is just me.

Oliver

Quote from: NuttinItUp on February 09, 2009, 10:25:59 pm
I don't know how you are picked to finish lower than last, but maybe that is just me.

It hasn't happened yet but there is a decent chance we might not win another game this year.  That would leave us 1-15 in SEC play.  Do you HONESTLY think we should be 1-15 in SEC play?  Did you HONESTLY think at any point before/during the season that we would only win one conference game?  I don't think any team has ever gone winless in SEC play before...we would be one win better than that if we were to lose every other game. 

I mean I guess you can say, "Last place is last place" all you want.  But to me almost breaking an SEC record in futility and having the worst season in league play since joining the SEC is a little different than winning 4 games and coming in last like in Stan Heath's first year.  It should certainly send up red flags that things aren't even close to turning around.

heathtits

February 09, 2009, 10:40:25 pm #15 Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 10:44:35 pm by heathtits
What's the point of this thread? Of course the coach knows that. He and we can be "realistic" all day and continue to analyze the logic of losing over and over and over but it doesn't change or lesson the feeling of continuous failure.

I'm ready for someone on this team to say this is unacceptable and do something about it rather than continue to play the "reality, logic" card after every butt whooping.

We the fans have seen what the team can do and it is our right to expect nothing but their best which they obviously have NOT been giving since those two victories.

I see the OU TX situation differently than most on this board. I feel like the simple fact that we were able to win proves we are capable. Whether it is the coaches or the players, who really knows, but even answering THAT question doesn't do anything to change the nosedive we've been on since that game. And by all means, I NEVER was calling for road victories and I expected a home loss or two but being the doormat of the SEC at our own house is shameful.

Phil Jackson could be our coach and if he lost at home to a crap Auburn team by 20 points, even he would be fighting an uphill battle with me.

I met Ron Huery during Stan's first season at a game, after one of our home losses, although heavily intoxicated, he informed me and my dad that he could already tell Stan wouldn't be able to get it done here. Pretty much everything he said turned out to be true. He said he didn't have control of his guys, respect of his guys and was in for a rude awakening when it came to athletes in the SEC.

I really want to fight off all ominous thoughts like this about Pel, but with no real light in site, I'm finding it difficult. It'd be one thing if we had a CPBesque class or something like that coming in. But we don't.

I will use football as an example after this season. If one staff can completely change the culture of our football program in 2 seasons, from a very similar depth and talent level, then I damn sure would expect a competent basketball coach to do the same.

HawgAdvocate

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 10:36:07 pm
It hasn't happened yet but there is a decent chance we might not win another game this year.  That would leave us 1-15 in SEC play.  Do you HONESTLY think we should be 1-15 in SEC play?  Did you HONESTLY think at any point before/during the season that we would only win one conference game?  I don't think any team has ever gone winless in SEC play before...we would be one win better than that if we were to lose every other game. 

I mean I guess you can say, "Last place is last place" all you want.  But to me almost breaking an SEC record in futility and having the worst season in league play since joining the SEC is a little different than winning 4 games and coming in last like in Stan Heath's first year.  It should certainly send up red flags that things aren't even close to turning around.

Ther's a decent chance that any team in the SEC won't win another game the rest of the way. The league as a whole stinks, remember?

And please spare us the Chicken Little speech of basing 'what if's' on worst case scenarios.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

Oliver

Quote from: HawgAdvocate on February 09, 2009, 10:40:39 pm
Ther's a decent chance that any team in the SEC won't win another game the rest of the way. The league as a whole stinks, remember?

And please spare us the Chicken Little speech of basing 'what if's' on worst case scenarios.

There is a chance that LSU will lose the rest of their games...but not a decent chance if you base it off their performance in the league so far. 

And on my 'what if' situation...there is still a chance we end up winning 3 or 4 more SEC games and my point would be moot.  But how about you address the 'what if' situation as if it happened.  What then?

HawgAdvocate

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 10:46:37 pm
There is a chance that LSU will lose the rest of their games...but not a decent chance if you base it off their performance in the league so far. 

And on my 'what if' situation...there is still a chance we end up winning 3 or 4 more SEC games and my point would be moot.  But how about you address the 'what if' situation as if it happened.  What then?

I addresed this earlier this morning. As long as we compte and show promise for the future, as we have for the heavy majority of games this year, I'll be happy and looking forward with the young talent we currently have.

When we lose due to a lack of depth and size on the perimeter, as well as youth on the frontline, I have to chalk it up to rebuilding. It is what it is.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

NuttinItUp

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 10:36:07 pm
It hasn't happened yet but there is a decent chance we might not win another game this year.  That would leave us 1-15 in SEC play.  Do you HONESTLY think we should be 1-15 in SEC play?  Did you HONESTLY think at any point before/during the season that we would only win one conference game?  I don't think any team has ever gone winless in SEC play before...we would be one win better than that if we were to lose every other game. 

I mean I guess you can say, "Last place is last place" all you want.  But to me almost breaking an SEC record in futility and having the worst season in league play since joining the SEC is a little different than winning 4 games and coming in last like in Stan Heath's first year.  It should certainly send up red flags that things aren't even close to turning around.
Can we finish the season first before just assuming we are only going to finish with one SEC win?

Oliver

Quote from: HawgAdvocate on February 09, 2009, 10:50:27 pm
I addresed this earlier this morning. As long as we compte and show promise for the future, as we have for the heavy majority of games this year, I'll be happy and looking forward with the young talent we currently have.

When we lose due to a lack of depth and size on the perimeter, as well as youth on the frontline, I have to chalk it up to rebuilding. It is what it is.

See, one conference win will never be acceptable to me no matter how young, inexperienced, or untalented we are.  That never needs to be acceptable to this program or it might as well be dead.

And when we lose due to a lack of depth and size on the perimeter, it's due to poor and ineffective recruiting by the head coach.  And that recruiting better improve quickly.

I guess this is just how we see things differently.

Oliver

Quote from: NuttinItUp on February 09, 2009, 10:56:25 pm
Can we finish the season first before just assuming we are only going to finish with one SEC win?

I realize that this point might not matter.  And even I don't think we'll go winless the rest of the way.   But would it hurt for you to just CONSIDER the situation and how you would feel about it?

WBOBO

I can assure you Mr. Miller, we will win at least two games the second half of the SEC, if not more.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.

Oliver

Quote from: WBOBO on February 09, 2009, 11:06:56 pm
I can assure you Mr. Miller, we will win at least two games the second half of the SEC, if not more.

How can you assure me of this?  It's just as blind a guess as me saying we won't win another game. 

 

WBOBO

We will beat Georgia at home and also Ole miss at home.  The rest is up for grabs!
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.

Oliver

Quote from: WBOBO on February 09, 2009, 11:21:20 pm
We will beat Georgia at home and also Ole miss at home.  The rest is up for grabs!

How do you know this?

razorbackfan

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 11:22:39 pm
How do you know this?
Really? I mean you're talking about losing all of our games left, at least he is trying to see a positive end to a trying & learning season.

40MINSOFHELL

im just going to say this, we will win 4 straight starting wednesday, im sticking to this..smite me all you want, im still optimistic.

HawgAdvocate

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 09, 2009, 11:16:10 pm
How can you assure me of this?  It's just as blind a guess as me saying we won't win another game. 

It's a 50/50 shot every night. You either win or lose. We've already won a double digit amount of games this year, many of which have come against good teams. It'll happen again. And when it does, happy meals for everyone.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

upperdeck_hawg

Quote from: 3kgthog on February 09, 2009, 09:50:20 pm
Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.



but when in the history of Razorback basketball has a team returned less than 10% or a teams scoring and rebounding from the year before? research that and get back to me.
I don't hate the guy.  He's a great Hog, and a needed contributor.  I despise that he does not understand his role as a complimentary player puts an absolute ceiling on this team.

-ErieHog on Devo Davis

TuckerRay

Quote from: WilsonHog on February 09, 2009, 08:31:15 pm
This was Pel's recent response (as documented in Nate Allen's column this morning), to a reporter's question about the program turning the corner after wins over OU and Texas:

"I don't think you can make those type of statements based on an X number of games," Pelphrey replied on Jan. 8. "I think you do that on seasons. Correct me if I'm wrong. We haven't bought any rings, we haven't cut down any nets, and nobody has given us a trophy. Until that happens, then we've got nothing we can really cling to that says the season is over."

What we don't need to cling to is his coaching and recruiting. It sucks

TuckerRay

February 10, 2009, 01:11:41 am #31 Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 01:16:41 am by TuckerRay
Quote from: upperdeck_hawg on February 10, 2009, 12:59:10 am
but when in the history of Razorback basketball has a team returned less than 10% or a teams scoring and rebounding from the year before? research that and get back to me.

Lame excuse.

chiefsfan

Quote from: 3kgthog on February 09, 2009, 09:50:20 pm
Predicted to be down, yes. Predicted to be the worst team in Razorback SEC history? No way.



We arent even close to the worst team in history
Honor and Integrity no longer exist in the world of college football.  It is only filled with liar's cheater's, and traitors.

chiefsfan

Quote from: TuckerRay on February 10, 2009, 01:10:48 am
What we don't need to cling to is his coaching and recruiting. It sucks

Just like Petrino's huh?
Honor and Integrity no longer exist in the world of college football.  It is only filled with liar's cheater's, and traitors.

Oliver

Quote from: razorbackfan on February 09, 2009, 11:31:44 pm
Really? I mean you're talking about losing all of our games left, at least he is trying to see a positive end to a trying & learning season.

I wasn't guaranteeing we'd lose the rest of our games.  He guaranteed me we'd win two more games.

Bad_Intentions

I think John is a great fit here. And I think he'll be a hell of a coach if we can give him some time, which would be the wise thing to do. My only knock on him so far is recruiting. Last year's class was great, but two of the players that would've had a significant impact didn't work out. That's the way it works sometimes. But I'm not too impressed with this class. Would really like to see us add that 6-5 Miss. guard that RD mentioned in his column.
WPS!!

WilsonHog

My personal opinion is that every coach, regardless of sport or level, should have three years minimum to establish a track record.

For that matter, the only way I would be in favor of firing a coach after three years is (a) if NCAA violations/character issues were uncovered or (b) all three seasons were losing seasons with no progress shown in the W/L column.


Calihog

Assuming that we will lose ALL the rest of our conference games and then using it for logic as if it already happened is so off base.  What this program doesn't need is a reputation for knee-JERK reactions with its hiring and firing of coaches.  Good luck getting anyone worth a crap if you start down that road.  So chill out and wait until the season is over and the wins and losses can actually be counted.  This chicken little crap is really adolescent.

Oliver

Quote from: Calihog on February 10, 2009, 12:04:20 pm
Assuming that we will lose ALL the rest of our conference games and then using it for logic as if it already happened is so off base.  What this program doesn't need is a reputation for knee-JERK reactions with its hiring and firing of coaches.  Good luck getting anyone worth a crap if you start down that road.  So chill out and wait until the season is over and the wins and losses can actually be counted.  This chicken little crap is really adolescent.

It's not chicken little crap it's a viable possibility to the end of the season.  I'm not saying panic right now because we are definitely losing the rest of our games.  I'm far from being optimistic about this team or future years under Pelphrey but even I think we'll end up winning 3 SEC games or so.  But I also don't understand the blind optimism...the don't worry about how many games we win this year, everything will be all better next year.  Losing the rest of our games is a big 'What If' situation but I think it's a discussable topic.  Just like if somebody asked me if I would change the way I felt about this year and the future if we won 6 of our last 8 games.  And the answer would be yes.

Speedracer

Pel is a good coach and I can't imagine that anybody hates this more than he does.  I imagine he's pretty frustrated because of his competitive drive and the team's lack of experience.  This is going to be chalked up to a learning season for me even though I get frustrated too.  I just think that this team was reading it's own success articles and have hit a rough patch. I'm not ready to call for JP's job, I think this program has fallen further than we all care to admit, and it's going to take some time to build it back up...if it ever can be built back up.  Just remember, even UNC had a difficult few years before Williams came in.
Like smites bother me.

WilsonHog

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 10, 2009, 12:23:06 pm
It's not chicken little crap it's a viable possibility to the end of the season.  I'm not saying panic right now because we are definitely losing the rest of our games.  I'm far from being optimistic about this team or future years under Pelphrey but even I think we'll end up winning 3 SEC games or so.  But I also don't understand the blind optimism...the don't worry about how many games we win this year, everything will be all better next year.  Losing the rest of our games is a big 'What If' situation but I think it's a discussable topic.  Just like if somebody asked me if I would change the way I felt about this year and the future if we won 6 of our last 8 games.  And the answer would be yes.

I'm not a blind optimist by any means. We may suck next year; who knows?

What I do no is that I cannot imagine a scenario this season that would result for any type of repurcussions for Pel from Jeff Long that we would notice. Hence, for me it's just a "prop my feet up on the desk and see what develops" type of deal.     

Oliver

Quote from: WilsonHog on February 10, 2009, 12:35:20 pm
I'm not a blind optimist by any means. We may suck next year; who knows?

What I do no is that I cannot imagine a scenario this season that would result for any type of repurcussions for Pel from Jeff Long that we would notice. Hence, for me it's just a "prop my feet up on the desk and see what develops" type of deal.    

Oh I agree.  No way Pel gets fired this year or even next year.  If the decision was solely mine to determine Pel's employment status at the end of this year, I wouldn't fire him.  For the reason's you listed above, it's never a good idea to fire a coach within the first 3 years unless you are talking about him committing NCAA violations, being involved in a scandal, or never showing any improvement during his 3 years at a school.  Therefore, much like yourself, I'm having to take a "prop my feet up" stance on Pel's next few years.  That being said, I'm not impressed by what I've seen so far and I'm not seeing a lot of light at the end of the tunnel for Pel during the next couple of years either.  And both of those things are frustrating to me as a fan.  But I really hope I am wrong about that.

The blind optimists that are frustrating me are the exact opposite of the "Fire Pelphrey now" crowd.  That's what I was trying to get people to respond to earlier in this thread.  What would you have to be optimistic about if we did end up winning only 1 SEC game this year?  What if some of Pelphrey's recruits, whom TomHog has already expressed academic concerns about, never put on a Hog uniform next year?  There are some legit concerns that you can't just label "REBUILDING YEAR" and "EVERYTHING WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER THE NEXT 2 YEARS."

Calihog

Quote from: Oliver Miller on February 10, 2009, 01:00:30 pm
Oh I agree.  No way Pel gets fired this year or even next year.  If the decision was solely mine to determine Pel's employment status at the end of this year, I wouldn't fire him.  For the reason's you listed above, it's never a good idea to fire a coach within the first 3 years unless you are talking about him committing NCAA violations, being involved in a scandal, or never showing any improvement during his 3 years at a school.  Therefore, much like yourself, I'm having to take a "prop my feet up" stance on Pel's next few years.  That being said, I'm not impressed by what I've seen so far and I'm not seeing a lot of light at the end of the tunnel for Pel during the next couple of years either.  And both of those things are frustrating to me as a fan.  But I really hope I am wrong about that.

The blind optimists that are frustrating me are the exact opposite of the "Fire Pelphrey now" crowd.  That's what I was trying to get people to respond to earlier in this thread.  What would you have to be optimistic about if we did end up winning only 1 SEC game this year?  What if some of Pelphrey's recruits, whom TomHog has already expressed academic concerns about, never put on a Hog uniform next year?  There are some legit concerns that you can't just label "REBUILDING YEAR" and "EVERYTHING WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER THE NEXT 2 YEARS."

The fact is no one knows if we will be better or worse in two years.   The jury is still out.  I haven't seen  a lot of people be blindly optimistic, but are more realistic in that they kind of expected us to be crappy this year. In my lowly opinion it doesn't do much good to start all this vitriolic, fire-breathing, calling for the coaches head and saying the players suck.  For obvious reasons, you can't get the reputation for firing coaches willy-nilly or you won't be able to hire if you need to.  Do I get angry watching games?  Absolutely, even the dog leaves the room.  But I don't think the solution is to fire the coach and bash the players.  We have seen effort.  That is more than we saw from many of Heaths teams.  Is Pelphrey the answer?  Only time will tell.

Oliver

Quote from: Calihog on February 10, 2009, 01:06:48 pm
The fact is no one knows if we will be better or worse in two years.   The jury is still out.  I haven't seen  a lot of people be blindly optimistic, but are more realistic in that they kind of expected us to be crappy this year. In my lowly opinion it doesn't do much good to start all this vitriolic, fire-breathing, calling for the coaches head and saying the players suck.  For obvious reasons, you can't get the reputation for firing coaches willy-nilly or you won't be able to hire if you need to.  Do I get angry watching games?  Absolutely, even the dog leaves the room.  But I don't think the solution is to fire the coach and bash the players.  We have seen effort.  That is more than we saw from many of Heaths teams.  Is Pelphrey the answer?  Only time will tell.

That's just it...I haven't said I wanted Pelphrey fired at the end of this year.  And I have rarely singled out a basketball player this year, unless it was in the heat of the moment of a game.  But because I'm saying that I don't have confidence in the future based on what I've seen so far...I'm being labeled "chicken little", "Pel hater", etc.  And it frustrates me because I there are legitimate concerns about the basketball program right now.  That being said, Pelphrey might have us in the top 25 next year.

rzrbackrob

I currently tend to be optimistic concerning our basketball team and the future. I see the glass as half full. I do enjoy reading posters like Oliver Miller who tend to go with the glass half empty. I acknowledge that Oliver Miller and other posters might just see something I don't. I really hope the conversation in years to come doesn't decline into the darksiders and huggers of the Nutt era. Posters are not "Pel haters" , "chicken Little the sky is falling" or "acceptors of mediocrity" , we are all passionate hog fans that desperately want the hogs to be playing for a national championship again. With the current situation in basketball and football I say enjoy the journey.
Good is the enemy of great

Texhawgfan

When you look back at this season so far, you can kind of tell how it was going to go.  By that I mean we had to overcome a 9 point deficit in the 1st game against a very medicore SE Louisiana team.  After seeing that game I said that we wouldn't win 4 games in the SEC.  Think how close all of the games were against the competition we were playing.  Teams that in a normal year we would have no trouble with.  Then we play 2 really good games against OU and Texas and win.  Remember they were at home with great crowds.  Those wins gave us all hope, but it was a false hope, at best.  You just don't beat teams in the SEC, even in a down year without playing your best basketball with as many newcomers as we have.  I want to win now too, but in reality it wasn't going to happen this year.  Give him a chance to get his players in here, with some experience and then judge what he can do.  I think he is going about it the right way and will be successful, but patience is not easy in today's world.  I too agree with a lot of posters on this board that Moore and Clark need to be playing more than Sanchez.  Whatever their deficiencies are, I would much rather play with their athleticism over Sanchez's if for no other reason than the experience that it would give them.