At some Point it is Just Time to Admit It

[WilsonHog]

We have lost basketball games every way imaginable. We have played great in the first half and horrible in the second, horrible in the first half and great in the second, horrible in both halves, and pretty good in both halves only to miss a last-second shot.

At some point it's simply time to admit that we aren't a very good team this year, and we aren't going to be. The issues that have hurt us thus far against SEC and non-directional compeition (in which we're 3-8 at best) aren't going to suddenly be resolved.

I'm going to continue to watch and support, but I'm through getting upset this season. Baseball is two weeks away. Tournament play is four weeks away, and spring football is maybe six to eight weeks away. I'll get interested in those, emotionally invested in those, and put Razorback basketball away for another eight months or so. 

[vandybuff]

Well said, WilsonHog.  We are fans of the kids / the school / the program.  20 - 5 or 5 - 20, we are still fans and wish for the best the next time out, though common sense says it might be just like the last time out.

btw, how does your baseball look for this season?  I know little about college baseball and never followed the game until two years ago and I now realize what I was missing.  A great way to spend an afternoon!

[Pork Twain]

I am just going to try and stick to football for the next couple of years.

[linze82]

i agree, but doesn't that make us apathetic?
not good in my opinion

[HognotinMemphis]

Wilson gives good advice. Again though, I do not like to see incompetence whether it is in a coach's or player's first game, 10th game, first year or 10th year.

I predicted 3 or 4 conference wins after the Hogs started 0-3. Looks like that is going to be high. Nice 1-8 start.

[hawaiianhogster]

I admit we aren't where we hoped we'd be but I will say that in the next three years Pelphrey should have himself a really good team. I see greatness at times from these young boys. Once they get that experience they need they will be very difficult to stop. We have to wait and see.

As far as football goes we will be frustrated with them too. Just wait and see. The expectations are through the roof for Petrino to win the SEC West. I see allot of frustrating posts popping up this football season. Good luck.

[HogBreath]

I felt like canning Heath with his players about to be seniors was a real dumb move.  He never got beat like Pelphrey has this year.  But every one wanted 40 minutes of Pel over that boring Big 10 style of play.  Time to enjoy it I guess.

[vandybuff]

But you do have one advantage upcoming -- Monk.  I honestly hope he can return, but if he cannot, that does remove the 'what if' that hangs over every close loss and probably has the players looking over their shoulder, too.  God bless you, Marcus, but any decision is better than the limbo you and this team are now enduring.

[vandybuff]

My last post for this morning --- and after you read this, perhaps forever - haha!  I did not follow Stan Heath, but he came to your program during a very odd and difficult time and I did then and do now wish him the best.  I think he did the best he could.

[Oliver]

My last post for this morning --- and after you read this, perhaps forever - haha!  I did not follow Stan Heath, but he came to your program during a very odd and difficult time and I did then and do now wish him the best.  I think he did the best he could.

I never had a problem with Stan Heath the person.  He seemed like nothing but a nice guy.  I really wanted it to work out for him here at Arkansas.  But Heath wasn't ready for an SEC job.  He was in over his head.  Pelphrey not only seems just as nice as Stan but he seems WAY more passionate about his job at Arkansas.  Unlike Heath, he understands SEC basketball and the fans passion for it...especially at schools like Arkansas and Kentucky.  Unfortunately, I don't see Pelphrey succeeding here either.  It was extremely difficult for both coaches when they walked into the job here at Arkansas.  In Heath's case, he had 0 talent left from Nolan and a fan base that wasn't used to experiencing losing.  In Pelphrey's case, he came into a program with a bunch of underachieving talent and a fan base that was tired of 10 years of empty promises about getting the basketball program turned around.  If we decide to hire a new coach in a couple of years because Pelphrey isn't getting the job done, this attitude won't change.  It's going to take big name proven coach or an up and coming coach that could have instant success here for that attitude in the fans to change.

[vandybuff]

I never had a problem with Stan Heath the person.  He seemed like nothing but a nice guy.  I really wanted it to work out for him here at Arkansas.  But Heath wasn't ready for an SEC job.  He was in over his head.  Pelphrey not only seems just as nice as Stan but he seems WAY more passionate about his job at Arkansas.  Unlike Heath, he understands SEC basketball and the fans passion for it...especially at schools like Arkansas and Kentucky.  Unfortunately, I don't see Pelphrey succeeding here either.  It was extremely difficult for both coaches when they walked into the job here at Arkansas.  In Heath's case, he had 0 talent left from Nolan and a fan base that wasn't used to experiencing losing.  In Pelphrey's case, he came into a program with a bunch of underachieving talent and a fan base that was tired of 10 years of empty promises about getting the basketball program turned around.  If we decide to hire a new coach in a couple of years because Pelphrey isn't getting the job done, this attitude won't change.  It's going to take big name proven coach or an up and coming coach that could have instant success here for that attitude in the fans to change.

I think we can agree that the last eight or so years have been anything but normal for UA mens basketball.  I hope the future brings you much success.

[40MINSOFHELL]

we are the globetrotters of SUCK

[Oliver]

I think we can agree that the last eight or so years have been anything but normal for UA mens basketball.  I hope the future brings you much success.

Thanks vandy!  I do too but I just can't see it happening anytime soon. 

[ChicoHog]

I never had a problem with Stan Heath the person.  He seemed like nothing but a nice guy.  I really wanted it to work out for him here at Arkansas.  But Heath wasn't ready for an SEC job.  He was in over his head.  Pelphrey not only seems just as nice as Stan but he seems WAY more passionate about his job at Arkansas.  Unlike Heath, he understands SEC basketball and the fans passion for it...especially at schools like Arkansas and Kentucky.  Unfortunately, I don't see Pelphrey succeeding here either.  It was extremely difficult for both coaches when they walked into the job here at Arkansas.  In Heath's case, he had 0 talent left from Nolan and a fan base that wasn't used to experiencing losing.  In Pelphrey's case, he came into a program with a bunch of underachieving talent and a fan base that was tired of 10 years of empty promises about getting the basketball program turned around.  If we decide to hire a new coach in a couple of years because Pelphrey isn't getting the job done, this attitude won't change.  It's going to take big name proven coach or an up and coming coach that could have instant success here for that attitude in the fans to change.

It could have been Bill Self but noooooo, we had to do the PC thing and hire heath.

[Razorod]

we had painted ourselves into a corner on both of the last hires.

with Heath, the race card and Nolan's lawsuit

with Pel, the lame duck status of our AD certainly didn't help in making the job attractive to any established coach. why would they come?

if pel doesn't work, at least this time we shouldn't have either one of those handicaps working against us.

[WilsonHog]

i agree, but doesn't that make us apathetic?
not good in my opinion

In no way does that make us apathetic; I still care. We all still care.

What it makes us is realistic.

[Tomhog™]

They just put so much expectations on themselves when they put together an Final Four performance against Oklahoma (who has yet to lose again).  Texas is proving to be not as good as the hype.  The rest of non-conference play didn't help to prepare for a below average SEC.  A tougher non-conference could have had us sitting at 7-6 instead of 12-1.  I hate that my expectations were raised so high.  It was going to be impossible for them to keep it up, especially once teams finally figured out the way to beat them.

[rzrbackrob]

I gave up the NCAA tourney a few games ago but we still should make the NIT.
I decided to enjoy the journey and not worry about the destination for this year.
With all that said, I will let myself believe we can win the SEC tourney if everything breaks just right. Georgia did it last year and no team in the SEC is a dominate team.

[vandybuff]

Someone said earlier that your team was invited to the NIT some years ago but declined?  True?  Why?

[chiefsfan]

This schedule was designed to give us wins and a chance at the NIT.  We didnt design it with the NCAA tournament in mind

[IronHog]

Baseball is two weeks away.

It is a little sad that Arkansas has fell so far in basketball that the baseball team gets attention.

College baseball is a great way to spend a spring day with a co-ed or son, but it is not the big two.

[WilsonHog]

It is a little sad that Arkansas has fell so far in basketball that the baseball team gets attention.

College baseball is a great way to spend a spring day with a co-ed or son, but it is not the big two.

In terms of revenue, no.

But if I had a choice of attending a game at RRS, at BWA, or at Baum, that's a no brainer. Baum all the way.

Of course, when I was in college at UA I rarely if ever missed a baseball game at George Cole, including a double-header against Houston that started at 1:00 p.m. and finished about 10:30 p.m. in sub-freezing temperatures.

[Hoggy1]

I think the UT game made me stop caring.

Usually after a loss like that I might hit the floor or be pissed for a few days, but I simply got out of my chair, walked out the front door and went back home.

[jkstock04]

It is a little sad that Arkansas has fell so far in basketball that the baseball team gets attention.

College baseball is a great way to spend a spring day with a co-ed or son, but it is not the big two.

Very sad indeed.  We used to be known as a great basketball school...now what are we known as?  I'm just gonna hang my hat on the football team, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel with this basketball team, I realize it can't get much worse...but at this time we pretty much have nobody coming in to help stop the bleeding.

[chiefsfan]

It is a little sad that Arkansas has fell so far in basketball that the baseball team gets attention.

College baseball is a great way to spend a spring day with a co-ed or son, but it is not the big two.

There is nothing like hog baseball.   its never going to make the revenue.  But we have one o the strongest baseball fan bases in the country and the best facilities in the country

Plus the team wins

[jonesark™]

I hate to admit that I didn't even know we were playing sat....sad, I've just lost interest...

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Someone said earlier that your team was invited to the NIT some years ago but declined?  True?  Why?

Lot's of reasons were given.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but too lazy to look up exact record. Weren't we like 18-12 or 18-14 had started well enough but stunk it up down the stretch.  The official reason I believe was our guys were gassed, wouldn't be interest, way we finished etc and so on. 

IMO the real reason was the infamous PTB did not want to be matched against a UALR or ASU.  We had a really young team and the practice/playing time and tourney format may have benefitted the team.

[vandybuff]

Lot's of reasons were given.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but too lazy to look up exact record. Weren't we like 18-12 or 18-14 had started well enough but stunk it up down the stretch.  The official reason I believe was our guys were gassed, wouldn't be interest, way we finished etc and so on. 

IMO the real reason was the infamous PTB did not want to be matched against a UALR or ASU.  We had a really young team and the practice/playing time and tourney format may have benefitted the team.

Wow - sorry not to know this but who or what is PTB.  And while I know that NCAA is the prize, I would think any post season would be fun for the kids, especially playing a local school such as Little Rock or ASU, Tulsa, Mizzou State, etc. 

thanks for the post.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Wow - sorry not to know this but who or what is PTB.  And while I know that NCAA is the prize, I would think any post season would be fun for the kids, especially playing a local school such as Little Rock or ASU, Tulsa, Mizzou State, etc. 

thanks for the post.

PTB = Powers that be.  At that time they be Frank Broyles and John White.

And basically Frank Broyles never wanted to play any in state school in any sport.  At the end of Nolan's second season here we had to play Ark State in the NIT.  Frank nearly dropped a load in his drawers because we pulled that win out of our a$$ at the end of the game.

[vandybuff]

PTB = Powers that be.  At that time they be Frank Broyles and John White.

And basically Frank Broyles never wanted to play any in state school in any sport.  At the end of Nolan's second season here we had to play Ark State in the NIT.  Frank nearly dropped a load in his drawers because we pulled that win out of our a$$ at the end of the game.

Jeez, it is only one ballgame of 30-33 or so each season.  Why did Mr. Broyles have these feelings? 

[sadhogfan]

Jeez, it is only one ballgame of 30-33 or so each season.  Why did Mr. Broyles have these feelings? 

I think the general answer is that he didn't want the fan base to be divided. While ASU and UALR have their share of fans in their respective areas, since they never play the Razorbacks, no rivalries exist, which means virtually no one in the state dislikes the Hogs, and people all over the state are passionate Razorback fans (as opposed to all of the Auburn fans who HATE Alabama, the Miss. St. fans who HATE Ole Miss, etc.).

That's a fairly unusual situation, and one that is very beneficial to the Arkansas athletic program.

[vandybuff]

I think the general answer is that he didn't want the fan base to be divided. While ASU and UALR have their share of fans in their respective areas, since they never play the Razorbacks, no rivalries exist, which means virtually no one in the state dislikes the Hogs, and people all over the state are passionate Razorback fans (as opposed to all of the Auburn fans who HATE Alabama, the Miss. St. fans who HATE Ole Miss, etc.).

That's a fairly unusual situation, and one that is very beneficial to the Arkansas athletic program.

Wow - never thought of this point.  So then most all Arkansas fans are also fans of Little Rock and ASU, and they also are fans of you.  Neat.

[WilsonHog]

Jeez, it is only one ballgame of 30-33 or so each season.  Why did Mr. Broyles have these feelings? 

Vandy, I was there that night for UA/ASU. Allow me to give you a sense of that game.

All of the ASU fans were at the top of Barnhill separated from Razorback fans below by a ring of security people. Before the game the ASU cheer squad unfurled a "How Long will the Hogs Run?" banner, which our cheerleaders promptly ripped from their possession and destroyed.

We got down by about 20 points during the game. There was a guy sitting a few seats down from me who was on Law Review with me at UA. Real mild-mannered guy who normally wouldn't say crap if he had a mouthful. At one point I noticed that he had ripped off his shirt and was standing in his seat screaming, "F*** you, Nolan! F*** you, you (racial explicative)! I'm for ASU now!"

I left with a few minutes to play (only to return when we miraculously sent the game into overtime). As I turned the corner in front of the Broyles Complex I heard the door swing open so loud it almost came unhinged. Out of it came Frank Broyles, who was resplendent in his red polka-dotted shirt he was wearing in honor of Nolan's fondness for polka-dotted attire. He was cursing Nolan for all he was worth. No question in my mind Nolan would have been fired the next day had we lost to ASU.           

I also later befriended some ASU fans in attendance that night who came out of the arena to find the windshields smashed in their cars.

It was pure insanity.

[Grag T]

Vandy, I was there that night for UA/ASU. Allow me to give you a sense of that game.

All of the ASU fans were at the top of Barnhill separated from Razorback fans below by a ring of security people. Before the game the ASU cheer squad unfurled a "How Long will the Hogs Run?" banner, which our cheerleaders promptly ripped from their possession and destroyed.

We got down by about 20 points during the game. There was a guy sitting a few seats down from me who was on Law Review with me at UA. Real mild-mannered guy who normally wouldn't say crap if he had a mouthful. At one point I noticed that he had ripped off his shirt and was standing in his seat screaming, "F*** you, Nolan! F*** you, you (racial explicative)! I'm for ASU now!"

I left with a few minutes to play (only to return when we miraculously sent the game into overtime). As I turned the corner in front of the Broyles Complex I heard the door swing open so loud it almost came unhinged. Out of it came Frank Broyles, who was resplendent in his red polka-dotted shirt he was wearing in honor of Nolan's fondness for polka-dotted attire. He was cursing Nolan for all he was worth. No question in my mind Nolan would have been fired the next day had we lost to ASU.          

I also later befriended some ASU fans in attendance that night who came out of the arena to find the windshields smashed in their cars.

It was pure insanity.

Good Lord.

That is crazy, thanks for the story.

[vandybuff]

Vandy, I was there that night for UA/ASU. Allow me to give you a sense of that game.

All of the ASU fans were at the top of Barnhill separated from Razorback fans below by a ring of security people. Before the game the ASU cheer squad unfurled a "How Long will the Hogs Run?" banner, which our cheerleaders promptly ripped from their possession and destroyed.

We got down by about 20 points during the game. There was a guy sitting a few seats down from me who was on Law Review with me at UA. Real mild-mannered guy who normally wouldn't say crap if he had a mouthful. At one point I noticed that he had ripped off his shirt and was standing in his seat screaming, "F*** you, Nolan! F*** you, you (racial explicative)! I'm for ASU now!"

I left with a few minutes to play (only to return when we miraculously sent the game into overtime). As I turned the corner in front of the Broyles Complex I heard the door swing open so loud it almost came unhinged. Out of it came Frank Broyles, who was resplendent in his red polka-dotted shirt he was wearing in honor of Nolan's fondness for polka-dotted attire. He was cursing Nolan for all he was worth. No question in my mind Nolan would have been fired the next day had we lost to ASU.          

I also later befriended some ASU fans in attendance that night who came out of the arena to find the windshields smashed in their cars.

It was pure insanity.

But when it is all said and done, it is just a ballgame.  It did not cure cancer; invent polyester, etc.  Just a ballgame. 

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Vandy, I was there that night for UA/ASU. Allow me to give you a sense of that game.

All of the ASU fans were at the top of Barnhill separated from Razorback fans below by a ring of security people. Before the game the ASU cheer squad unfurled a "How Long will the Hogs Run?" banner, which our cheerleaders promptly ripped from their possession and destroyed.

We got down by about 20 points during the game. There was a guy sitting a few seats down from me who was on Law Review with me at UA. Real mild-mannered guy who normally wouldn't say crap if he had a mouthful. At one point I noticed that he had ripped off his shirt and was standing in his seat screaming, "F*** you, Nolan! F*** you, you (racial explicative)! I'm for ASU now!"

I left with a few minutes to play (only to return when we miraculously sent the game into overtime). As I turned the corner in front of the Broyles Complex I heard the door swing open so loud it almost came unhinged. Out of it came Frank Broyles, who was resplendent in his red polka-dotted shirt he was wearing in honor of Nolan's fondness for polka-dotted attire. He was cursing Nolan for all he was worth. No question in my mind Nolan would have been fired the next day had we lost to ASU.          

I also later befriended some ASU fans in attendance that night who came out of the arena to find the windshields smashed in their cars.

It was pure insanity.

Insanity?  Sounds like a good Springer episode.  We need more of that.  It's almost as if Nolan was on  the edge of the abyss, looked at it, pissed in it, won the game and the rest is history.

[IronHog]

But when it is all said and done, it is just a ballgame. 

That is why Vandy stinks.

It is just a ballgame in little league.  This ain't little league.

[vandybuff]

That is why Vandy stinks.

It is just a ballgame in little league.  This ain't little league.

You are correct - it is not little league; it is entertainment.  And sorry we stink .. ever since Robert Plant teamed with Allison Krauss, the town has just gone to h@ll! 

[WBOBO]

Wilson,  if I do recall correctly, Big John Tate from Watson Chapel played for ASU in that game and had he not gotten leg cramps late in the game....  Well you know the rest.  Frank left Barnhill arena in
a fury.  Total chaos, yet we still won.  Had we lost, history may have been altered.  But the point of the matter is we won, and look at what we went on to accomplish.   

Deep down, I wish Big John would have been a Razorback just because he was good enough to have contributed and helped Nolan during those trying times in his first few years.