Robert Shields - Hogballers Had the Talent - So What Happened to Season?

[Robert Shields]

Hogballers Had the Talent – So What Happened to Season?

Robert Shields

After Ronnie Brewer was picked 14th in the NBA draft, the first thought that hit my mind was what happened to that Razorback basketball team last season? Either Brewer is not that good and Utah made a dumb pick that will keep it in the cellar, or the Razorbacks did not utilize Brewer effectively or get enough out of him.

At times last season, the Hogs looked as they should have, beating a national champion Florida team and a good Tennessee team. The also played hard against a final four LSU team but fell short twice. And they found a way to beat a game Alabama team at home. So they had that streak where they looked great beating Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.

But too often, this team found ways to lose games it should have won such as the two LSU games and the other Alabama game. Then they choked against very bad Ole Miss and Mississippi State teams. And the clincher that sticks in many fans' guts was the Bucknell loss in the NCAA tournament.

There will be those that say that Bucknell team was good. Go ahead and ignore them. Bucknell did not have a No. 14 NBA draft pick on its team, nor could it have ever beaten Florida, not even playing against the computer in College Hoops 2K6 on the Xbox.

The bottom line is that last year's Razorback team greatly underachieved. Brewer was the No. 14 pick, but of guys coming out of college that he had to compete against, he was the 11th best player in the game because two Euros and Senegali were drafted before him.

Brewer was not alone with talent on that Razorback team, either -- Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and Darian Townes come to mind and are the hope of many fans for next year. Bucknell did not have anyone of those players' caliber on their team. Yet Bucknell dictated the tempo of the game throughout.

You have to wonder what it will take for the Hogs to be a power in the SEC in basketball, be in the top 25, and go deeper into the Big Dance, a place that the Hogs rightfully belonged every year until the dawn of this millennium, which so far has been nothing but agony for basketball fans.

Last year's team was very talented and last week's draft established that fact. So what will it take to win and be the power team in the SEC West -- two high NBA draft picks on the same team?

There was a flaw in last year's team that made it underachieve. We just established it was not talent, which beat the eventual national champion and placed a kid in the NBA as a high first-round pick. You can decide what was the weak link.



One-Minute Travel Journal

Just back from spending a weak in southern Missouri, about three hours from Little Rock on Table Rock Lake at Big Cedar Lodge. The kid renting the boats asked where I was from and I told him that I was from Arkansas. He said he was too, from around Hasty. I knew where it was and made a comment about the Buffalo River and told him that I had floated around there and Carver. He asked where I was from and I said Little Rock. He said: "That's a long trip isn't it -- what like six and a half hours?" I said: "No, more like three. You must be thinking more about the time it takes to get from south Arkansas to Fayetteville."


Send your travel journals to fromthebench@yahoo.com

[Pignominious]

Sounds like Stan to me.  I don't like to bash the guy, but there is a lot left to be desired.

[Aftershave]

You ever notice how teams, especially college, that like each other & have some kind of chemistry play better?

This team rarely looked connected to each other. If Heath were more of a hard ass the players could at least unite in their

fear or angry of him but that ain't gonna happen.

Maybe Beverly or Weems or Ervin can come in and be the "personality" that we've been missing.

[Rey Pygsterio]

You ever notice how teams, especially college, that like each other & have some kind of chemistry play better?

Exhibit A: the Miami Heat

Exhibit B: the Los Angeles Lakers

[Frank_Hate_Me]

What gets me is the talking heads go on and on about how Stan's teams improved each year, and that we made the big dance this year.

1. On the year to year improvement it should be expected even if you never change the level of talent.  Also Stan set himself up well by having two crappy seasons his first two years.  Anyone can improve on that.

2.  On making the big dance BFD.  That should be a yearly expectation not something to crow about.

3.  You can improve year to year and still underachieve.   Some may argue that Heath's first team overachieved just to win 9 games because of the lack of talent on that team and the turmoil from the previous year.  

I have to agree with Shields our talent level should be producing greater results than we have seen and that goes back to one person.

[V B Porkers]

Look at all the picks from Uconn. It looks like they underachieved big time.

[Atreyu]

The UConn roster was packed full of stars, and that many of them together can't coexist.

[WILL CLINTON]

Brewer was not the 11th best college player.  He forgot about 2 other guys that could have come out in the draft and went higher than Brewer.  Joakim Noah of Florida and Big Baby of LSU. 

[Beaverfever]

Brewer was not the 11th best college player.  He forgot about 2 other guys that could have come out in the draft and went higher than Brewer.  Joakim Noah of Florida and Big Baby of LSU. 

I don't think big baby will go that high.  He's not tall enough.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

BLAME STAN ALL YOU WANT, HE'S NO JOHN WOODEN (yet), BUT THE REASON THINGS WEREN"T UP TO SHIELDS' PAR:


*We MISSED 9 FREE THROWS IN the last half vs Bucknell, including TWO FRONT ENDS OF A ONE AND ONE, was the obvious difference in losing to bucknell (who we were tied with under a minute to go), and playing (beating??) Memphis in the Round of 32.   

*Free throws (McCurdy) sank us at LSU, too.

*Free throws cost us at Miss State and AT Alabama during the first week of SEC play

*Free throws let Kentucky back in the game at RUPP ARENA after we were up by 18.

*Free throws (ALMOST) threw the game vs Florida in the snow..  We basically 'snatced victory from the jaws of defeat', couldve won by 10 but shot like 24-44 for free throws (is that even legal??)

*Free throws lost us the 3 point loss to Ole Miss - i remember hearing on the radio, the rebs cheering as we missed key ones down the stretch, and i thought "this is so over right now"


(oh, and 2 parting shots: ***1-If brewer was the 11th best college player, why wasn't he an all-american? (2nd,3rd team)?  Or SEC POY?  Hm..   and ***2-why does everyone say we have talent? rivals ratings? word of mouth? isn't "talent" defined by winning? how can we always sit back and say "MAN WE HAVE TALENT" who JUDGES that? is it an excuse? is it the stan haters setting him up to fail? who died and made you god of picking out talent?  Ken Biley was Mr Basketball, how did his 'talent' turn out?  I think Davor Rimacs was supposed to be 'talented' and Olu was a 'freakishly talented athelete'

(real answer to #2 - you're totally wrong, we aren't some talent hotbed, it's just some dumb excuse sportwriters craft to give some mystique to certain teams -- or, in your case, to BLAME THEM!)

But as you can see, many of our losses (and thus our sec tourney bracket, and our low NCAA SEEDING) were due to missing point blank shots from 12 feet out. Tsk Tsk

[TuckFexas]

Hogballers Had the Talent – So What Happened to Season?

Robert Shields

After Ronnie Brewer was picked 14th in the NBA draft, the first thought that hit my mind was what happened to that Razorback basketball team last season? Either Brewer is not that good and Utah made a dumb pick that will keep it in the cellar, or the Razorbacks did not utilize Brewer effectively or get enough out of him.

At times last season, the Hogs looked as they should have, beating a national champion Florida team and a good Tennessee team. The also played hard against a final four LSU team but fell short twice. And they found a way to beat a game Alabama team at home. So they had that streak where they looked great beating Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.

But too often, this team found ways to lose games it should have won such as the two LSU games and the other Alabama game. Then they choked against very bad Ole Miss and Mississippi State teams. And the clincher that sticks in many fans’ guts was the Bucknell loss in the NCAA tournament.

There will be those that say that Bucknell team was good. Go ahead and ignore them. Bucknell did not have a No. 14 NBA draft pick on its team, nor could it have ever beaten Florida, not even playing against the computer in College Hoops 2K6 on the Xbox.

The bottom line is that last year's Razorback team greatly underachieved. Brewer was the No. 14 pick, but of guys coming out of college that he had to compete against, he was the 11th best player in the game because two Euros and Senegali were drafted before him.

Brewer was not alone with talent on that Razorback team, either -- Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and Darian Townes come to mind and are the hope of many fans for next year. Bucknell did not have anyone of those players’ caliber on their team. Yet Bucknell dictated the tempo of the game throughout.

You have to wonder what it will take for the Hogs to be a power in the SEC in basketball, be in the top 25, and go deeper into the Big Dance, a place that the Hogs rightfully belonged every year until the dawn of this millennium, which so far has been nothing but agony for basketball fans.

Last year's team was very talented and last week's draft established that fact. So what will it take to win and be the power team in the SEC West -- two high NBA draft picks on the same team?

There was a flaw in last year's team that made it underachieve. We just established it was not talent, which beat the eventual national champion and placed a kid in the NBA as a high first-round pick. You can decide what was the weak link.



One-Minute Travel Journal

Just back from spending a weak in southern Missouri, about three hours from Little Rock on Table Rock Lake at Big Cedar Lodge. The kid renting the boats asked where I was from and I told him that I was from Arkansas. He said he was too, from around Hasty. I knew where it was and made a comment about the Buffalo River and told him that I had floated around there and Carver. He asked where I was from and I said Little Rock. He said: "That's a long trip isn't it -- what like six and a half hours?" I said: "No, more like three. You must be thinking more about the time it takes to get from south Arkansas to Fayetteville."


Send your travel journals to fromthebench@yahoo.com

BLAME STAN ALL YOU WANT, HE'S NO JOHN WOODEN (yet), BUT THE REASON THINGS WEREN"T UP TO SHIELDS' PAR:


*We MISSED 9 FREE THROWS IN the last half vs Bucknell, including TWO FRONT ENDS OF A ONE AND ONE, was the obvious difference in losing to bucknell (who we were tied with under a minute to go), and playing (beating??) Memphis in the Round of 32.  

*Free throws (McCurdy) sank us at LSU, too.

*Free throws cost us at Miss State and AT Alabama during the first week of SEC play

*Free throws let Kentucky back in the game at RUPP ARENA after we were up by 18.

*Free throws (ALMOST) threw the game vs Florida in the snow..  We basically 'snatced victory from the jaws of defeat', couldve won by 10 but shot like 24-44 for free throws (is that even legal??)

*Free throws lost us the 3 point loss to Ole Miss - i remember hearing on the radio, the rebs cheering as we missed key ones down the stretch, and i thought "this is so over right now"


(oh, and 2 parting shots: ***1-If brewer was the 11th best college player, why wasn't he an all-american? (2nd,3rd team)?  Or SEC POY?  Hm..   and ***2-why does everyone say we have talent? rivals ratings? word of mouth? isn't "talent" defined by winning? how can we always sit back and say "MAN WE HAVE TALENT" who JUDGES that? is it an excuse? is it the stan haters setting him up to fail? who died and made you god of picking out talent?  Ken Biley was Mr Basketball, how did his 'talent' turn out?  I think Davor Rimacs was supposed to be 'talented' and Olu was a 'freakishly talented athelete'

(real answer to #2 - you're totally wrong, we aren't some talent hotbed, it's just some dumb excuse sportwriters craft to give some mystique to certain teams -- or, in your case, to BLAME THEM!)

But as you can see, many of our losses (and thus our sec tourney bracket, and our low NCAA SEEDING) were due to missing point blank shots from 12 feet out. Tsk Tsk

Damn, I can't make up my mind which side I'm on. Good points by both. If you base your opinion of a good coach of one who puts his players in a position to win the game, then Stan is a good coach. But you could also look at some of the stupid moves Stan made and use that to base your opinion of him being a bad coach. Suhnuvabitch, I'm still undecided.

[Tusks]

Well if RS is this unhappy with the lack of success with basketball team that had a top 15 pick.....then he must have just recovered from conniption fit he had after HDN's 03 season. 

Tell me RS, who should spend more time in the top 25....football or basketball?

[HognotinMemphis]

Don't forget the "fresh legs" strategy Heath used vs. Bucknell, that powerhouse team we playing in the NCAAT.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

I will go down as a fan of Coach Heath but the man has got to get his team to play MEANER and with more anger and intensity!

Seemed like so many times when things got tight, they played very timid and choked the game away.
And we had no b*lls whatsoever in the second half in Lexington.

There were about 4-5 games that we should have had. We could have easily won the western division or the entire SEC had we closed out a couple more games and had a much better seed in the NCAAT.

Offensive execution had got to get better also. We did get better toward the end of the season and won some big games but we were extremely flat against Bucknell when we should have gone all out.

We did lose Modica, Ferg, and Brewer but we will be deeper overall as a team and *should* be able to knock down more outside shots.

Maybe Coach Heath has learned from past experiences and the addition of Coach Cy will make this program better.

Im a little worried about all the inexperience in the backcourt though. Its a good thing we have Gary Ervin. We need a leader like him to show Weems, Bev, Welsh, and McCurdy the ropes.

I think we should win at least 10 games in conference and win a game or two in the Dance.

[39/4Life]

Buffet, every thing you stated goes back to coaching and recruiting. These are the guys stan wanted, so if they can't make shots it's HIS problem. He coaches them, he recruits them, its up to him to make them perform. Period

[Kevin n Hog Heaven]

Has Shields ever written a column like this about the Nuttster?

[hogfankb]

Buffet, every thing you stated goes back to coaching and recruiting. These are the guys stan wanted, so if they can't make shots it's HIS problem. He coaches them, he recruits them, its up to him to make them perform. Period

Should we have gotten more shooters over the last couple of years. absolutely. Are we UNC or Duke where we can have the pick of the litter. absolutely not. The state the program was in when he got here(racial/on court issues) I think he has done a pretty good job rebuilding the program and getting good players here. Now that he has a solid, but not great, base he has got to do a better job of getting his teams to play hard for the whole game and bringing in guys that fill needs. The big problem everyone had was our offense last year. A team as one deminsional as we were(aka. no one who could make a shot outside of 15ft consistantly) makes an offense very easy to stop. Heath did a much better job this year filling needs with the signing of beverly/welsh. Two guys that supposedly can stretch a defense. Now all we can do is sit around and wait and see if they live up to the hype against SEC teams.

[Jim Harris]

Buffet, every thing you stated goes back to coaching and recruiting. These are the guys stan wanted, so if they can't make shots it's HIS problem. He coaches them, he recruits them, its up to him to make them perform. Period

Let's be a little more accurate. Stan wanted Daniel Gipson. Had he signed Daniel Gipson, as every "guru" seemed to think he was going to do, until "something happened" down in Texas and Slick Rick was able to get three All-Americans in, do you think we would have been a little better team than we were?
He had, at guard, what they basically had to settle for, Ferguson late in the recruiting game, and for whatever reason D. Jefferson after Gibson and Jason Horton told them no.
He also would have loved for the NBA to have put in that age limit two years ago. Who knows, Al Jefferson might have stayed TWO years with the age limit in place, or only stayed one, but with A. Jefferson would Stan have had a better team each of the past two season?
And yet, the talent was still good enough this season to go 10-6 and 22-10, but nobody's happy anymore. It apparently should be 34-4 every year and an SEC championship every other year, I guess.

[39/4Life]

Point taken. All I ask for is not to be heartbroken at the end of every game. The Hogs played their opponenets style of ball week in ad week out. It just sucks to lose almost every close game you are in, and I put that on Stan. I think he is a great ambassador for the UA program but what has he really proven on the court? This upcoming season will be pivotal in both sports as to what direction the UA will be going in the world of major college athletics. :razorback:

[sooiedog]

Let's be a little more accurate. Stan wanted Daniel Gipson. Had he signed Daniel Gipson, as every "guru" seemed to think he was going to do, until "something happened" down in Texas and Slick Rick was able to get three All-Americans in, do you think we would have been a little better team than we were?
He had, at guard, what they basically had to settle for, Ferguson late in the recruiting game, and for whatever reason D. Jefferson after Gibson and Jason Horton told them no.
He also would have loved for the NBA to have put in that age limit two years ago. Who knows, Al Jefferson might have stayed TWO years with the age limit in place, or only stayed one, but with A. Jefferson would Stan have had a better team each of the past two season?
And yet, the talent was still good enough this season to go 10-6 and 22-10, but nobody's happy anymore. It apparently should be 34-4 every year and an SEC championship every other year, I guess.
[/quote]

Nobody said they should go 34-4 every year.  But should be able to beat Bucknell every year.  Especially in the NCAA tournament. That's the worst prepared Razorback basketball team I have ever seen in a tournament game. Heath makes me sick to my stomach. 

[Pignominious]

It really is hard to tell at this point.  I know we say this every year, but I think we will know at the end of next year.

[hogfan064]

Fire Heath!! That's all I have to say

[nwarazfan]

Hogballers Had the Talent – So What Happened to Season?

Robert Shields

After Ronnie Brewer was picked 14th in the NBA draft, the first thought that hit my mind was what happened to that Razorback basketball team last season? Either Brewer is not that good and Utah made a dumb pick that will keep it in the cellar, or the Razorbacks did not utilize Brewer effectively or get enough out of him.

At times last season, the Hogs looked as they should have, beating a national champion Florida team and a good Tennessee team. The also played hard against a final four LSU team but fell short twice. And they found a way to beat a game Alabama team at home. So they had that streak where they looked great beating Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.

But too often, this team found ways to lose games it should have won such as the two LSU games and the other Alabama game. Then they choked against very bad Ole Miss and Mississippi State teams. And the clincher that sticks in many fans’ guts was the Bucknell loss in the NCAA tournament.

There will be those that say that Bucknell team was good. Go ahead and ignore them. Bucknell did not have a No. 14 NBA draft pick on its team, nor could it have ever beaten Florida, not even playing against the computer in College Hoops 2K6 on the Xbox.

The bottom line is that last year's Razorback team greatly underachieved. Brewer was the No. 14 pick, but of guys coming out of college that he had to compete against, he was the 11th best player in the game because two Euros and Senegali were drafted before him.

Brewer was not alone with talent on that Razorback team, either -- Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and Darian Townes come to mind and are the hope of many fans for next year. Bucknell did not have anyone of those players’ caliber on their team. Yet Bucknell dictated the tempo of the game throughout.

You have to wonder what it will take for the Hogs to be a power in the SEC in basketball, be in the top 25, and go deeper into the Big Dance, a place that the Hogs rightfully belonged every year until the dawn of this millennium, which so far has been nothing but agony for basketball fans.

Last year's team was very talented and last week's draft established that fact. So what will it take to win and be the power team in the SEC West -- two high NBA draft picks on the same team?

There was a flaw in last year's team that made it underachieve. We just established it was not talent, which beat the eventual national champion and placed a kid in the NBA as a high first-round pick. You can decide what was the weak link.



One-Minute Travel Journal

Just back from spending a weak in southern Missouri, about three hours from Little Rock on Table Rock Lake at Big Cedar Lodge. The kid renting the boats asked where I was from and I told him that I was from Arkansas. He said he was too, from around Hasty. I knew where it was and made a comment about the Buffalo River and told him that I had floated around there and Carver. He asked where I was from and I said Little Rock. He said: "That's a long trip isn't it -- what like six and a half hours?" I said: "No, more like three. You must be thinking more about the time it takes to get from south Arkansas to Fayetteville."


Send your travel journals to fromthebench@yahoo.com

This opinion piece was a real reach.  Heath deserves some criticism for last season specifically conditioning and in failing to solve the problem at PG and most importantly having not recruited a shooter. 

With that said, the premise that the TEAM was very talented because 1 player was drafted (and none of the seniors were even considered draftable) is just stupid.  One player does not make a team.  I guess So Carolina was a great team last year too based on Shields' criteria.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

Interesting points by all, but my main point was MISSING ***FREE THROWS*** was the PLAYERS problem

--when Stan tried to get "good but off the bench" FT shooters to the line, they choked (McCurdy, LSU)
--when Stan left "mediocre but in the zone" FT shooters in there, they choked (townes & thomas vs MSU, Florida in SECT, Bucknell)

Sure, stan made mistakes, but i can't believe that everyone is forgetting how SO MANY of our "close losses" were.. it wasn't like we missed a tying dunk with a second to go, many of the losses (see my first post) were ONLY because of choking at the line!

Could stan say "ok ok guys we are only practicing FTs" for 3 months?  Sure!  But then everyone would complain and say "why don't we have a defense?? do we not practice any set plays??  what do they do all day in practice??"

Who cares about recruiting SHOOTERS, I'm saying get 12 guys that can make an unguarded shot with NO REAL TIME LIMIT with an OPEN look to the basket from 12 feet out 7 times out of 10, and I'll be happy

(and obviously, that last line, i'm talking about FREE THROWS )

[Big Papa Satan]

"No, more like three. You must be thinking more about the time it takes to get from south Arkansas to Fayetteville."

[silvertip]

Sounds like Stan to me.  I don't like to bash the guy, but there is a lot left to be desired.

One thing for sure, Stan ain't no Nolan, and he never will be.

Thank God than Stan will never be Nolan. Problem with Nolan, starting at least with the '94 Final Four, was that you couldn't take him anywhere without him making a fool of himself.

Let's be a little more accurate. Stan wanted Daniel Gipson. Had he signed Daniel Gipson, as every "guru" seemed to think he was going to do, until "something happened" down in Texas and Slick Rick was able to get three All-Americans in, do you think we would have been a little better team than we were?
He had, at guard, what they basically had to settle for, Ferguson late in the recruiting game, and for whatever reason D. Jefferson after Gibson and Jason Horton told them no.
He also would have loved for the NBA to have put in that age limit two years ago. Who knows, Al Jefferson might have stayed TWO years with the age limit in place, or only stayed one, but with A. Jefferson would Stan have had a better team each of the past two season?
And yet, the talent was still good enough this season to go 10-6 and 22-10, but nobody's happy anymore. It apparently should be 34-4 every year and an SEC championship every other year, I guess.

Nobody said they should go 34-4 every year.  But should be able to beat Bucknell every year.  Especially in the NCAA tournament. That's the worst prepared Razorback basketball team I have ever seen in a tournament game. Heath makes me sick to my stomach. 
[/quote]

Yeah, well I guess fans like you at Kansas think they shouldn't have lost to Bucknell in the NCAAT either. As far as I'm concerned, people who whine about losing to Bucknell are just showing their ignorance of the reality of college BB.

The "worst prepared Razorback BB team in a tournament?"
I dunno, the '00 bunch that got downright punked by Miami looked a lot worse. They didn't even compete that night.

[Extra Point]

Blah, blah, blah....

Hard to find something to write about these days?  Lack of creativity and original ideas getting you down?

You could name a host of teams that could have gone deeper in the tourney.  Should Tubby Smith be canned?

Arkansas had "THIN" talent and a few guys who only showed up every other night.  Heck, I've watched the pickup games a number of times this summer and the same guys Bob calls talented still take plays off and don't show up to play every day.  Heath's not there, so you can't blame him for that.

And we only had 7, maybe 8 players that consistenly played.  That catches up with you when you play teams that are much deeper.

[ClubChubby]

I hate to bag on stan, especially after the way I hate on nuutt. Hapless deserves it so much more, I feel bad for stan.
However, stan is not any kind of sec floor coach. We all know it. You guys complaining about the players, well, don't you reckon stan knew they couldn't hit free throws after watching them practice for years? If you've got a poor ft shooting team, you're best bet is to blow the doors off the opposition so ft's won't matter.
I realize stan didn't get all the players he wanted. Who does?
Nolan would have taken last year's team to the elite 8. Maybe better.
Stan refused to coach the team he had. Instead playing mighigan state ball, no matter the fact he didn't have the players to do it.
Nolan would have beat bucknell by 40.
Stan's not anywhere near razorback calibre.
Don't blame stan, blame frank.
When stan was hired, arkansas was a top 10 job.
Yet frank went out and hired a nobody.
You get what you pay for.

[bythelake]

You ever notice how teams, especially college, that like each other & have some kind of chemistry play better?

This team rarely looked connected to each other. If Heath were more of a hard ass the players could at least unite in their

fear or angry of him but that ain't gonna happen.

Maybe Beverly or Weems or Ervin can come in and be the "personality" that we've been missing.

I have to agree.  Seems like there wasn't enough balls to go around sometimes. 

[DezNuttstehsuq]

You ever notice how teams, especially college, that like each other & have some kind of chemistry play better?

This team rarely looked connected to each other. If Heath were more of a hard ass the players could at least unite in their

fear or angry of him but that ain't gonna happen.

Maybe Beverly or Weems or Ervin can come in and be the "personality" that we've been missing.

This is so obvious to me about the Hogs last year Im really surprised other havent noted this before.  The lack of offense throughout the season boils down to the guys having fun running Stan's offense and having fun among themselves, neither of which occurred with much frequency last year. Shields is right when he states five or six games were winnable last year, but an obvious lack of team chemistry killed those opportunities.

If you watched Florida, Duke, UConn, you could see those guys knew where so and so was going to be and when to pass the ball to the cutter, the open 3, the big man pivoting to the hoop.  With this offense you get street ball that does little to credit street ball.

[WILL CLINTON]

I hate to bag on stan, especially after the way I hate on nuutt. Hapless deserves it so much more, I feel bad for stan.
However, stan is not any kind of sec floor coach. We all know it. You guys complaining about the players, well, don't you reckon stan knew they couldn't hit free throws after watching them practice for years? If you've got a poor ft shooting team, you're best bet is to blow the doors off the opposition so ft's won't matter.
I realize stan didn't get all the players he wanted. Who does?
Nolan would have taken last year's team to the elite 8. Maybe better.
Stan refused to coach the team he had. Instead playing mighigan state ball, no matter the fact he didn't have the players to do it.
Nolan would have beat bucknell by 40.
Stan's not anywhere near razorback calibre.
Don't blame stan, blame frank.
When stan was hired, arkansas was a top 10 job.
Yet frank went out and hired a nobody.
You get what you pay for.

There are so many good points in this post I need to give you a +1 for the next day and a half. 

[silvertip]

I hate to bag on stan, especially after the way I hate on nuutt. Hapless deserves it so much more, I feel bad for stan.
However, stan is not any kind of sec floor coach. We all know it. You guys complaining about the players, well, don't you reckon stan knew they couldn't hit free throws after watching them practice for years? If you've got a poor ft shooting team, you're best bet is to blow the doors off the opposition so ft's won't matter.
I realize stan didn't get all the players he wanted. Who does?
Nolan would have taken last year's team to the elite 8. Maybe better.
Stan refused to coach the team he had. Instead playing mighigan state ball, no matter the fact he didn't have the players to do it.
Nolan would have beat bucknell by 40.
Stan's not anywhere near razorback calibre.
Don't blame stan, blame frank.
When stan was hired, arkansas was a top 10 job.
Yet frank went out and hired a nobody.
You get what you pay for.

Well, it's been said a hundred times already, so I doubt if you'll get it this time. But for other people---

NO, Nolan would not have taken last year's team to the Elite 8---not even the Sweet 16. It takes 2 NCAAT wins to make the Sweet 16---Nolan's last 6 teams won a TOTAL of TWO NCAAT games combined. No more than one win by any team. Plus 2 teams in that span that didn't make the big dance at all.

Nolan would not get last year's team to the Elite 8 because few of these players would have signed with him. He was a washed-up has-been & elite players, especially big men, would not come. Yeah, yeah---Sullinger & Igoudala. You're not a Sweet 16 program getting one big time recruit per year.

It's riidiculous to say Arkansas was a "top 10 job" when Stan was hired. Wasn't quite a top-10 job when Nolan was hired. But the program was a smoking wreck when Nolan got done with it.

[WILL CLINTON]

I hate to bag on stan, especially after the way I hate on nuutt. Hapless deserves it so much more, I feel bad for stan.
However, stan is not any kind of sec floor coach. We all know it. You guys complaining about the players, well, don't you reckon stan knew they couldn't hit free throws after watching them practice for years? If you've got a poor ft shooting team, you're best bet is to blow the doors off the opposition so ft's won't matter.
I realize stan didn't get all the players he wanted. Who does?
Nolan would have taken last year's team to the elite 8. Maybe better.
Stan refused to coach the team he had. Instead playing mighigan state ball, no matter the fact he didn't have the players to do it.
Nolan would have beat bucknell by 40.
Stan's not anywhere near razorback calibre.
Don't blame stan, blame frank.
When stan was hired, arkansas was a top 10 job.
Yet frank went out and hired a nobody.
You get what you pay for.

Well, it's been said a hundred times already, so I doubt if you'll get it this time. But for other people---

NO, Nolan would not have taken last year's team to the Elite 8---not even the Sweet 16. It takes 2 NCAAT wins to make the Sweet 16---Nolan's last 6 teams won a TOTAL of TWO NCAAT games combined. No more than one win by any team. Plus 2 teams in that span that didn't make the big dance at all.

Nolan would not get last year's team to the Elite 8 because few of these players would have signed with him. He was a washed-up has-been & elite players, especially big men, would not come. Yeah, yeah---Sullinger & Igoudala. You're not a Sweet 16 program getting one big time recruit per year.

It's riidiculous to say Arkansas was a "top 10 job" when Stan was hired. Wasn't quite a top-10 job when Nolan was hired. But the program was a smoking wreck when Nolan got done with it.

Boy, you really took it personally when Nolan said Redneck SOB's, huh??  I can't understand the hatred for this man.  Nutt has been slowly regressing since his 3rd year here, and yet Nolan was washed up and a has been because of his last 2 years?? Nolan was and is the best coach EVER to coach basketball at Arkansas. 

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

***********Nolan was washed up MORE than just his last 2 years

96-97 - NO NCAA Tourney
97-98 - lose to Utah in round of 32 (with pat bradley, kareem reid, derek hood, etc)
98-99 - lose to Iowa in round of 32
99-00 - lose to 1st round pathetic Miami team, NO NCAA Tourney if not for miracle SECT run
00-01 - lose to 1st round georgetown (10 beats 7 - an upset) on last shot with NO defense by 3 guys
01-02 - NO NCAA Tourney, win just 14 games, nolan blows up, fired with 1 game to go

^^^^^^^^^^^

I LOVED Nolan, too, but after the Title and Runner up (94 & 95), he GAVE UP.

The above resume looks about like Ole Miss or Auburn.  Makes the tourney for a few years, has a few sucky years

*I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE STAN IN 2006, IMPROVING, THAN NOLAN IN 1996, WHO STAGNATED AND DECLINED.  STAN'S FUTURE CAN ONLY GET BETTER, YET "STICKING WITH NOLAN" THE LAST 6 (SIX) YES 6 FREAKING YEARS GOT US WHAT?  NOTHING!  NO SWEET SIXTEENS!  NO 30 WIN SEASONS!  STAN'S TEAM THIS PAST YEAR HAD MORE WINS THAN ALL OF THE ABOVE TEAMS (Minus '99 i think).  STAN'S FUTURE IS BRIGHT, NOLAN'S WENT TO POT.

Do NOT kid youself into thinking Nolan was divine and had buttloads of success...  he DID, but only until 1995 -- THEN (as you can see) it all went DOWN DOWN DOWNHILL.

[WindyCityHog]

I like Mr. Shields....

but that was week.

[daBoar]

Last year's b-ballers were 10-6 in an SEC that proved it was better than hyped all season.  This team started off 1-3; ending at 10-6 was respectable.  No blowouts (except Uconn) and competitive play against most teams.  Brewer was clearly one of the best in the league and clearly the best option for the Hogs.  Certainly, Brewer wasn't underutilized.  He certainly didn't have the same cast around him that Corliss had.  What hurt the hogs were several very close losses during the first half of the SEC season and a stubborness to stick with a point guard who was not.  More wins would have meant playing a patsy in the first game of the NCAA tourney (not much of an argument for losing against Bucknell, but it's the truth).

Something was going right during the last 8 games of the season.  Greatly underachieving, I think not.

[ClubChubby]

I hate to bag on stan, especially after the way I hate on nuutt. Hapless deserves it so much more, I feel bad for stan.
However, stan is not any kind of sec floor coach. We all know it. You guys complaining about the players, well, don't you reckon stan knew they couldn't hit free throws after watching them practice for years? If you've got a poor ft shooting team, you're best bet is to blow the doors off the opposition so ft's won't matter.
I realize stan didn't get all the players he wanted. Who does?
Nolan would have taken last year's team to the elite 8. Maybe better.
Stan refused to coach the team he had. Instead playing mighigan state ball, no matter the fact he didn't have the players to do it.
Nolan would have beat bucknell by 40.
Stan's not anywhere near razorback calibre.
Don't blame stan, blame frank.
When stan was hired, arkansas was a top 10 job.
Yet frank went out and hired a nobody.
You get what you pay for.

Well, it's been said a hundred times already, so I doubt if you'll get it this time. But for other people---

NO, Nolan would not have taken last year's team to the Elite 8---not even the Sweet 16. It takes 2 NCAAT wins to make the Sweet 16---Nolan's last 6 teams won a TOTAL of TWO NCAAT games combined. No more than one win by any team. Plus 2 teams in that span that didn't make the big dance at all.

Nolan would not get last year's team to the Elite 8 because few of these players would have signed with him. He was a washed-up has-been & elite players, especially big men, would not come. Yeah, yeah---Sullinger & Igoudala. You're not a Sweet 16 program getting one big time recruit per year.

It's riidiculous to say Arkansas was a "top 10 job" when Stan was hired. Wasn't quite a top-10 job when Nolan was hired. But the program was a smoking wreck when Nolan got done with it.

I really believe that the on top of his game nolan, with this past years' team, would have at least gone to the sweet sixteen.

[turbo2000]

Sounds like Stan to me.  I don't like to bash the guy, but there is a lot left to be desired.

I agree on all counts.

It does not matter if it is football, basketball, or track; winning begins where it always has and will continue to originate from...............the top.

[trufanofhogs]

Hogballers Had the Talent – So What Happened to Season?

Robert Shields

#1 Last season was very successful - a major step in the right direction for our program which has been down for 3 or 4 years. When I think back to how screwed up things were 4 years ago, I have to be really encouraged. Now, we have seen back to back winning seasons coming off 3 straight losing seasons. Now we have some solid upper classmen returning with some highly touted newcomers coming in. Doesn't look like any more losing campaigns on the horizon to me.

#2 Yeah, we had a talented team. An NBA 1st rounder. A tall, deep, athletic front line. But we weren't a team without weaknesses. Another long time observer of the program pointed this out to me early last season. We were short a player or 2 who could just flat out shoot it - I mean really fill it up ala Ron Brewer, Sr., Marvin Delph, Scott Hastings, Pat Bradley, Dwight Stewart etc.

#3 Heath as a coach - Have we witnessed some "on the job training"? Sure. One thing I have noticed after watching Arkansas coached by 2 Hall of Fame coaches for 28 years, is Heath's teams don't seem to always play hard, and it seems that they don't always "bring it" on defense. With Nolan or Eddie, you could always take those things to the bank. But, I like his demeanor. He recruits well - which makes all the difference in the final analysis. If he is as smart as I think he is, he will learn from past mistakes and adjust to things as they come along. The adjustment thing was a shortcoming for both Sutton and Richardson. They each burned out here. Eddie recharged and went on. Hopefully Nolan is in the process of that right now.

#4  Loss to Bucknell -  Disappointing? Yes    Unexpected? Not really - they were an veteran team with successful recent post season history. They went through their league undefeated. In the last 2 seasons they have beaten Kansas and won at Syracuse. Still, it took 15 3's to beat us. In the days before the 3 point shot, that would have been a 5 point Arkansas victory. Would Nolan have "killed" them? Probably not. There are not many easy outs in that tournament.

#5 From my point of view, the future of our basketball program looks as bright as it ever has. A coaching change at this time - I don't recommend it.

[Extra Point]

I wonder what anyone on this board will talk about if Heath and Nutt have great seasons next year?

Better start coming up with ideas, because it could easily happen.

[werehog]

Two words -- Stan Heath.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

Two words - FREE THROWS.

We don't miss 9 (NINE) (9) FTs, with 2 front ends of one&ones vs Bucknell (*IN THE SECOND HALF), we win, simple.  We play 1 seed memphis hard and everyone is excited about next year.

See above posts re: other free throw losses (at Kentucky @ Rupp, @ bama, @ ole miss, @ msu, @lsu (mccurdy), @ florida in SECT...)   

By my count making a few free throws at crucial times gives us what -  a a record  of.. hold your breath....  29-5!!!!!!!!!!!!

W.T.F.

"we are so bad"

me:"we made it to the tourney - our goal, and went 10-6 in the sec that gave us 2 final four teams & the nat'l champion & 4? NBA first rounders"

"stan sucks"

me:"well let's see, make a few key free throws and we are 29-5."

"FIRE STAN!"

me:"um, our worst loss was to #1 UConn by what - 9 points?"

"FIRE HIM!"

me:"if mccurdy, townes, others hadnt choked at the line, we'd be 29-5."

"WHO CARES HE SHOULD TEACH THEM HOW TO SHOOT FREE THROWS!"

me:"....."

(29-5.... wow)

[Yo Huckleberry]

This is my first ever ageement w/Shields. Heath is doing a nice job recruiting, but apparently the man can't coach. As for the UConn comparison: are you kidding me? They didn't when the NC so you're gonna compare their so-called underachievement to ours? Ha! Gety real! UConn kicks butt, repeatedly while we are just begging to get the 64th spot in the tourney. They are consistently good; we are consistently pitiful.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

I"m not comparing us to uconn

I'm saying our WORST loss was by 9 to Uconn.. i think that's WONDERFUL because Uconn IS so good.

How many blowouts did we have last year???

How many?/

How many games did we have NO CHANCE to win???

(sound of silence)

I'd take a heartbreaking loss in baton rouge (where at least Brewer had a shot to win it) over losing by THIRTY POINTS (85-55) @ Mississippi State ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

GET REAL!  This team never got blown out. 

How many other squads can say that??

Even Kentucky got spanked (25+) by Indiana this year.

[Yo Huckleberry]

Moral victories: yep, we got a bunch o' them. 

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

You're right, next year when we are down by 5 with 2 min left instead of rooting us on, i will scream "GIVE US HELL, MISSISSIPPI STATE!  BEAT US BY 30!"

*w.t.f.*

[wishyjoshy]

Buffett,

I agree with you stance that the losses this past season rest (primarily) on the shoulders of the players.  There should never be ANY excuse for missing freethrows.  Anyone, with practice, should be able to make it, AT LEAST, to a 70% freethrow shooter.  The disappearing act from Darian Townes was impressive to say the least.  "There he is  . . . oh wait, he's gone again."  There was plenty of blame to be passed around.  Sprinkle in some bad breaks and there we are geeting beat in the 1st Round of the Tourney to Bucknell. 

With all that being said, there is still one question that remains:
Is Stan Heath the best option available for our team?

From reading your posts, I gather that you are a student of the game.  That usually means you have a preference for the way the game is played, which usually translates into a favorite coach.  As much as I love the athleticism on the court, I almost love the battle on the sidelines more.  Stan hasn't shown me any tenacity.  I think that is something a coach has to have.  Some are agressive and some are passive-agressive, but all the great coaches have that *spark* inside them that helps them move/motivate their players to do great things.   

As I said above, I don't think that Stan has the tenacity or *spark.*  Do you see that in him?  If so, please share.  If not, then it might not matter to you if a coach has "it" or not.  If that is the case, could you explain.  Thanks.

[Yo Huckleberry]

He's the best available option when your administration is too darned cheap to pay a name coach.

[dana caldwell]

i'd take a lazy nolan over heath. guy had more strategy, experience and fire by a long shot on his worst days.

but it was time for him to go.

i've said and written it before many times and i'll post it again: mike anderson should have been the man. if so, none of this underachieving or empty cupboard talk would be relevant.

[allyoucaneatbuffet]

It's kinda like Iraq: no matter WHAT you wanted in 2003, we are there now, so let's finish the job and succeed.

No matter WHAT you thought of Stan-Mike Anderson-etc in 2002, he's the coach now, so let's succeed.
**************
Year 1:  9 wins     4 SECwins   last west    ends in SECT, lose by 20+
Year 2: 12 wins    6 SECwins   5th west     ends in SECT, lose by 20
Year 3: 18 wins    6 SECwins   4th west     ends in NIT, declined
Year 4: 22 wins   10 SECwins   2nd west    ends in NCAAT

i'll go further:
************
Year 1: 'hurried' recruits
Year 2: 'good on paper' recruits (olu - face it, the kind of recruits we want, McD's A.A)
Year 3: 'went to the nba' recruits (big Al)
Year 4: 'filling our needs' recruits (all the guards, young pfs for the future)
***********
Year 1: nolan's players who don't respect him at all (eddins, etc.)
Year 2: nolan's players (mike jones) + young stan's players, not much respect
Year 3: nolan's kids + stan's, battling it out (townes v. sullivan, pookie v. stan)
Year 4: last year of 'no respect for stan' players (pookie, brewer) beginning of 'we respect stan' young guys' (mccurdy, thomas, hill, beverley...)

Can ANYONE give me a reason why next year shouldn't be better?  Doesn't EVERYONE see a HUGE pattern here... IMPROVE IMPROVE IMPROVE.

Stan may have made some dumb decisions, but he also made very smart ones (watch our win at tennessee, watch our win from 18 down vs alabama, the way he used hill & townes, making brewer bring up the ball, running an offense with 3 big men vs tennessee's shorter teams - we outrebounded them 45 to 20something)stan did make some very smart coaching moves.  Is he learning?  YES.  Is he still young?  Yes.  Does he have promise? Yes.

Statistically, defense, rebounding, assists-turnovers, are all BETTER each year with Stan.  WE ARE IMPROVING.

There is a reason nolan is the only coach to win a ncaa, nit, and juco championship... because he coached around for DECADES before landing here.  Stan was thrown in at a young age -- right or wrong decisiion, ***HE IS HERE*** 

And I, for one, NOW THAT HE IS HERE, look at all the above and realize how GOOD we are actaully GETTING -- and, how close we were to winning 25, 27, or 28 games last year (#$%@ Free throws DO matter).



(and i KNOW everyone says 'oh nolan this and nolan that'... from 1997 to 2002, we won a single ncaa game, missed the NCAA THREE TIMES (ok, 2 times - thanks to the 2000SECT run), and only won more games than Stan's '06 hogs (more than 22) ONCE...  when kareem and pat bradley and derek hood were shooting the lights out.  Nolan WAS great, but then, face it, NOLAN STUNK IT UP HIS LAST SIX YEARS)