Suspending players is ineffective

[Hogtropolis™]

when you have no players that can back them up.

Suspending players is most effective when you can show that the team can win without them.  Show them that they need the team, not that the team needs them.

Every time Pel suspends Henry or Fortson, it reinforces the fact that this team is much better with them on the court and thus gives them the attidute of "Keep suspending me and we'll keep losing and you'll lose your job" which does not improve their off-court issues.

For suspensions to work properly you have to have a serviceable backup for whichever player you suspend.  We no backup for Henry or Fortson.

[thirtythree]

when you have no players that can back them up.

Suspending players is most effective when you can show that the team can win without them.  Show them that they need the team, not that the team needs them.

Every time Pel suspends Henry or Fortson, it reinforces the fact that this team is much better with them on the court and thus gives them the attidute of "Keep suspending me and we'll keep losing and you'll lose your job" which does not improve their off-court issues.

For suspensions to work properly you have to have a serviceable backup for whichever player you suspend.  We no backup for Henry or Fortson.

Very true. That's why it works more effectively in football and baseball. They just have more players available to them.

[newhog]

I doubt you have to worry about Henry anymore.

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

I disagree.  It's not like we're winning with them playing either.  Even if it were the case that we lost because a player was suspended, and would have won with him playing, it should give that player the attitude of "I let my whole team down by doing such & such and getting suspended - we lost because of me."

[HawgAdvocate]

Or kick them off the team for good and show the players left and those you are recruiting that they will face consequences for continued bad behavior. If anything the coach gains respect of fans who are off his bandwagon.

Sadly, we have fans who raise a ruckus because Pel is painted as a guy who only recruits kids he has to give the boot to, when that's not the case. People will always find a reason to

That, and Pel isn't the type to give up on a kid that easily. For some though, there isn't much hope.

[Hogtropolis™]

I disagree.  It's not like we're winning with them playing either.  Even if it were the case that we lost because a player was suspended, and would have won with him playing, it should give that player the attitude of "I let my whole team down by doing such & such and getting suspended - we lost because of me."

I would hope that it would give them those thoughts, but I just don't think that these players that have been getting suspended have that mentality.  It would be nice if they did, but I just don't see it.

As far as not winning anyway, if you've noticed, either we have gotten blown out when one of those two aren't playing or it ended up being a close game in which one of those two could have helped us get over the hump.

They are both great players and could be very beneficial to the team if they could be disciplined correctly and had respect for those in charge, but if that cannot be obtained, then they will cause more harm than good to this team.

[solitons]

a coach can suspend a player whenever he think it is good for both the team and the player, but a coach is supposed to teach the players (students), so he should warn them (him), bench them (him), and then suspend them (him), kick out the team.

I didn't see he bench fortson last time. I guess he should learn how to teach them. I kind of think he is a too easy coach.

[Hogbody]

I doubt you have to worry about Henry anymore.

Interesting.  Are you hearing anything?

[jackflash]

You can't just kick them off. every coach tells a kid parents he will take care of there kids if they come to his school. Parents know there kids will make mistakes in college and have no problem with the head coach correcting them. But to kick them  off quick how could tell another kids parents you would watch for their kid and them believe you? If they leave when you correct them that's a different.

[Sourpuss]

Singapore has great success controlling criminal mischief with regular, public canings.  I don't know how the NCAA would feel but it is worth looking into.  Might be used against us in recruiting if other schools didn't do it though.  Could you imagine the pressers though?  I'll bet you'd only have to do it a couple of times and they'd all start shaping up. 

Honkytonkman, formerly of this board, now at woopig.something I am told, suggested a good cussing might be in order at times.   

That being said I'll bet there is a regulation against corporal punishment in the reg's of the NCAA.

I'm for whatever get's their attention and makes em play better, (as long as it's legal, or very very discrete).

[Tomhog™]

I doubt you have to worry about Henry anymore.

I feel the same.  Troubled kids like this don't stay for long.  He'll probably end up at a JC for a time so he can go back to an upper tier school.

[BallHog1]

I once had a high school coach who gave the boot to the most talented player on our team with following note: "We've been losing with you and we can @#$^ sure manage to lose without you."  We actually did better without him.

[blacksuit]

I feel the same.  Troubled kids like this don't stay for long.  He'll probably end up at a JC for a time so he can go back to an upper tier school.

This is not his first suspension. Hogtropolis is right that the lack of depth undermines the power of a suspension, but I'm not sure what the alternative is. Discipline should be a constant, shouldn't matter who the player is, and shouldn't matter if it's a good year or not.

As for J. Henry, I hope he can learn from all of this, but I agree that he will probably leave the team.

[3kgthog]

A lawbreaking star player has to be made an example of. Until then, the players are running this team and not the coach. If Pelphrey won't do what needs to be done then Gearhart or Long needs to do it for him.

[husker71]

Believe me if you are an athlete the worst thing a coach can do is take away your playing time.  I would run laps or stairs allday and stay in study hall 24 hours but the most precious commodity is playing time.

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

I would hope that it would give them those thoughts, but I just don't think that these players that have been getting suspended have that mentality.  It would be nice if they did, but I just don't see it.

As far as not winning anyway, if you've noticed, either we have gotten blown out when one of those two aren't playing or it ended up being a close game in which one of those two could have helped us get over the hump.

They are both great players and could be very beneficial to the team if they could be disciplined correctly and had respect for those in charge, but if that cannot be obtained, then they will cause more harm than good to this team.

I agree with that, except I have full confidence that if those guys would have played we still would have found a way to lose.   Definitely agree that there is a point where "less is more" if you continue to give a guy chances and he refuses to grow up, sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

[hogtheball]

when you have no players that can back them up.

Suspending players is most effective when you can show that the team can win without them.  Show them that they need the team, not that the team needs them.

Every time Pel suspends Henry or Fortson, it reinforces the fact that this team is much better with them on the court and thus gives them the attidute of "Keep suspending me and we'll keep losing and you'll lose your job" which does not improve their off-court issues.

For suspensions to work properly you have to have a serviceable backup for whichever player you suspend.  We no backup for Henry or Fortson.

I might agree with you, but it's not like this team is great with Fortson and Henry on the court.  We're just  bad enough that your theory isn't valid.   Did you see anything in the Kentucky game to make you think that Fortson would have made a difference?  He can't shoot from outside, he wasn't going to stop Meeks with his man-up D, and Michael Washington got his scoring average without Fortson on the court. 

In fact, the team had 10 assists - pretty much our conference avg. WITH fortson...
We had 13 turnovers - 1 over our SEC avg. WITH Fortson...
We shot 42% from the field - better than Fortson's 39% in SEC...
and we lost - which we seemed to do just as well without fortson as with.

What exactly did we lose while he was suspended for the Kentucky game???  Maybe that's what Fortson should learn from his suspension...  He was missed more by the announcers than by the stat-book.

[freethrow]

Anyone aware of JP's record for suspensions and/or dismissals of players at South Alabama?

[Hogtropolis™]

I might agree with you, but it's not like this team is great with Fortson and Henry on the court.  We're just  bad enough that your theory isn't valid.   Did you see anything in the Kentucky game to make you think that Fortson would have made a difference?  He can't shoot from outside, he wasn't going to stop Meeks with his man-up D, and Michael Washington got his scoring average without Fortson on the court. 

In fact, the team had 10 assists - pretty much our conference avg. WITH fortson...
We had 13 turnovers - 1 over our SEC avg. WITH Fortson...
We shot 42% from the field - better than Fortson's 39% in SEC...
and we lost - which we seemed to do just as well without fortson as with.

What exactly did we lose while he was suspended for the Kentucky game???  Maybe that's what Fortson should learn from his suspension...  He was missed more by the announcers than by the stat-book.

The stats may not show it, but I would almost guarantee that the UK would have been closer if Fortson had played.

[ruarealhogfan]

I might agree with you, but it's not like this team is great with Fortson and Henry on the court.  We're just  bad enough that your theory isn't valid.   Did you see anything in the Kentucky game to make you think that Fortson would have made a difference?  He can't shoot from outside, he wasn't going to stop Meeks with his man-up D, and Michael Washington got his scoring average without Fortson on the court. 

In fact, the team had 10 assists - pretty much our conference avg. WITH fortson...
We had 13 turnovers - 1 over our SEC avg. WITH Fortson...
We shot 42% from the field - better than Fortson's 39% in SEC...
and we lost - which we seemed to do just as well without fortson as with.

What exactly did we lose while he was suspended for the Kentucky game???  Maybe that's what Fortson should learn from his suspension...  He was missed more by the announcers than by the stat-book.

Nick Calathes is regarded as a pretty dam good player & is listed at 6'6. He averages 17 ppg, 6.4 apg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 turnover per game...Fortson averages 15ppg, 6 apg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 turnovers per game...Let's see 2 ppg & 1 to per game difference as a freshman, while Calathes is in his 2nd year, yeah I'll take that!!!

[Dr. J]

Maybe if you knew what he was suspended for you might change your tune.
I know what happened and suppoort coach Pel 100%.

[31to6]

when you have no players that can back them up.

Unless things are so bad and the nature of the problems (recruiting or classroom related) mean you are suspending players to not run the risk of LoIC.

[thirtythree]

Maybe if you knew what he was suspended for you might change your tune.
I know what happened and suppoort coach Pel 100%.

Care to share?

[Hogtropolis™]

Maybe if you knew what he was suspended for you might change your tune.
I know what happened and suppoort coach Pel 100%.

I'm not saying he didn't have a choice.  Sometimes, as seems to be the case this time, you have to suspend them no matter what.  I'm just stating that I don't believe in suspending them that he is getting through to them.

I don't know if it is a lack of respect for Pelphrey or if it is just a blatant lack of respect for anyone in an authoritative position.  Either way, these suspensions are obviously not effectively deterring Henry and Fortson from staying out of trouble off the court.

That's the only point I am trying to make, not that he shouldn't have suspended them.

[hogtheball]

Nick Calathes is regarded as a pretty dam good player & is listed at 6'6. He averages 17 ppg, 6.4 apg, 5.2 rpg, 3.3 turnover per game...Fortson averages 15ppg, 6 apg, 5.6 rpg, 4.4 turnovers per game...Let's see 2 ppg & 1 to per game difference as a freshman, while Calathes is in his 2nd year, yeah I'll take that!!!

What does Calathes have to do with anything?  He's a fantastic point guard, and will likely be a top 15 pick in the 2010 NBA draft.  Courtney Fortson isn't even projected as a projection of a projection.  If you'd take Fortson over Calathes, then you know something none of the scouts and coaches know...

the point of the original post was that it doesn't do any good to suspend players if we don't have the depth to "scare" them when they're not playing.   I was saying we suck when Fortson plays, and we suck when he doesn't play - a coach has to suspend a player when he violates rules whatever the case may be.   I just hope the kid cleans up his act and becomes the player he should be...

[ruarealhogfan]

What does Calathes have to do with anything?  He's a fantastic point guard, and will likely be a top 15 pick in the 2010 NBA draft.  Courtney Fortson isn't even projected as a projection of a projection.  If you'd take Fortson over Calathes, then you know something none of the scouts and coaches know...

the point of the original post was that it doesn't do any good to suspend players if we don't have the depth to "scare" them when they're not playing.   I was saying we suck when Fortson plays, and we suck when he doesn't play - a coach has to suspend a player when he violates rules whatever the case may be.   I just hope the kid cleans up his act and becomes the player he should be...

Actually I was referring to the stat line comment. I didn't say I would take Fortson over Calathes. They both play the same position so yeah their stats can be compared.  None of that has anything to do with the NBA...