At some point we all have to stop blamming coaches

[PigSnort]

All My GOD!!!

You people including FCJ shouldn't even post today if this is going to be the excuses.

You all know damn well if Stan was still the coach this and every other board would be killing the man for weeks.

Hell I still read about the Bucknell game and how long ago was that.

I have but one question for you guys, where was this not blaming the HC when Stan was here?

This team is better then last year with experience along the only change is on the coaching staff, hmmmmmm.

What's the old saying, what's good for the goose is,,,,,,,,,

Talk about a double standard, at least try and hide what yoy really feel.

This lost today is the worse lost I have ever seen a Razorbacks team have considering where the program started this season which was in the top 25 as brief as it might have been.

Exactly!  We are getting a double standard here!   The prevailing view WAS that this team has talent and lacked coaching.   Well, where is this great coaching?  How is the team ANY better than last year?  We should have beaten OU and should have killed AS today.

I am not anti Pelphrey, but the way some of you guys annointed him the next John Wooden before he had even coached a  game here was amazing!  Maybe there was a reason he was at South Alabama?

[Newcoachplease]

Exactly!  We are getting a double standard here!   The prevailing view WAS that this team has talent and lacked coaching.   Well, where is this great coaching?  How is the team ANY better than last year?  We should have beaten OU and should have killed AS today.

I am not anti Pelphrey, but the way some of you guys annointed him the next John Wooden before he had even coached a  game here was amazing!  Maybe there was a reason he was at South Alabama?

Heath had his chance, a few years, and couldnt get it done. No need to jump on Pel.

He cant change the crappy attitude of the seniors overnight, teach them how to shoot, teach them how to play like they want to win.

Its like getting a un pottied trained dog after he his 5 years old, not going to teach him overnight.

Once we get away from Stans players, we will be fine.

[hogsanity]

And i said the same thing when Stan was here. the players on this team should be ashamed of themselves. they made App. state, look like NC or Memphis. the only thing i blame Stan for is the bad recruiting he did while he was here. App.st. had better skill players than we did with the little gaurd, and the post guy. i think that says it all about the kind of talent we have on this team. Pel has to take the blame because he's the head coach. but these players just can not get it done. and it matters not who is coaching them. it's very sad.

For once, we agree.  This team can not shoot.  Can not play man up post defense.  Can not recognize when an opponet has the hot hand.  In other words, they are not smart players.  Also, Townes is so soft on defense that it is almost funny.  Yes, he can block shots, but when it is body on body, he gets lit up. 

[HawgG]

here is the problem with your thinking. these are not Pel's players. i bame Stan for his bad recruiting. i have said for three years that the talent on this team is way overrated. i have said that Pel get's blame because he's the head coach. but what do you want to do fire him after 12 games. good grief give the man a chance. Stan had 5 years and could not get it done.time will tell if Pel can get it done. i think he can.

FCJ as much exposure as you get you tend to leave yourself wide open for debates like this.

I been listening to you for a long time and have heard you on the radio for about as long.

I will give you credit that you were about the first one that saw what the future on Nolan was and CALLED FOR A CHANGE.

First off I have never called for the guy to be fired and I won't because that will take care of itself in due time.

Now I'm kind on a BIG NAME on Hogville and I made that name by following recruiting as well or better then most.Nobody has listed the failures of the former coaching staff and Nolan on recruiting more then me.

Fact is most people have claimed until Pelphrey became the HC that is a very talented team but has never had good coaching.

Well now apparently we have great coaching but terrible talent, hmmmm.

Now FC you say that Stan had 5 years and couldn't get it done but give Pelphrey a chance.Sorry if I find that funny coming from you knowing your history of calling for coaches being fired.

One thing people need to remember about comparing Stan and Pelphrey, the times when they took over as HC at the UofA was under very different circumstances.

Heath came at a time when the talent level was at an all time low, Nolan was suing the University for racism, and state was divided.Hell I remember Black people hated Stan because he took the job and considered him a sellout.I know for fact that Stan had to answer those questions in the living rooms of recruits which contributed to some of his misses in recruiting.

On the other hand Coach Pelphrey got lucky as the experts say and took over a team that was a ready to win right away top 25 program.Combine that with a soft nc schedule and a rebuilding SEC and this team should still be underfeated and rolling into the SEC.Well right now this team is a Baylor lost away to packing it in and you know it.

If people think that next year is going too be better then they should look around first and see what is actually happening in college basketball.

It makes no difference to me, but it seems a little ridiculous that we are talking about rebuilding and being patience when that shouldn't be the situation we are in today.

Now that is a long reply but it covers your replay to me and all future replys on this or related subjuct.

[hogsanity]

FCJ as much exposure as you get you tend to leave yourself wide open for debates like this.

I been listening to you for a long time and have heard you on the radio for about as long.

I will give you credit that you were about the first one that saw what the future on Nolan was and CALLED FOR A CHANGE.

First off I have never called for the guy to be fired and I won't because that will take care of itself in due time.

Now I'm kind on a BIG NAME on Hogville and I made that name by following recruiting as well or better then most.Nobody has listed the failures of the former coaching staff and Nolan on recruiting more then me.

Fact is most people have claimed until Pelphrey became the HC that is a very talented team but has never had good coaching.

Well now apparently we have great coaching but terrible talent, hmmmm.

Now FC you say that Stan had 5 years and couldn't get it done but give Pelphrey a chance.Sorry if I find that funny coming from you knowing your history of calling for coaches being fired.

One thing people need to remember about comparing Stan and Pelphrey, the times when they took over as HC at the UofA was under very different circumstances.

Heath came at a time when the talent level was at an all time low, Nolan was suing the University for racism, and state was divided.Hell I remember Black people hated Stan because he took the job and considered him a sellout.I know for fact that Stan had to answer those questions in the living rooms of recruits which contributed to some of his misses in recruiting.

On the other hand Coach Pelphrey got lucky as the experts say and took over a team that was a ready to win right away top 25 program.Combine that with a soft nc schedule and a rebuilding SEC and this team should still be underfeated and rolling into the SEC.Well right now this team is a Baylor lost away to packing it in and you know it.

If people think that next year is going too be better then they should look around first and see what is actually happening in college basketball.

It makes no difference to me, but it seems a little ridiculous that we are talking about rebuilding and being patience when that shouldn't be the situation we are in today.

Now that is a long reply but it covers your replay to me and all future replys on this or related subjuct.

Pelphry took over a senior laden team, that can not shoot.  Period.  They can not make shots. 

[HawgG]

Exactly!  We are getting a double standard here!   The prevailing view WAS that this team has talent and lacked coaching.   Well, where is this great coaching?  How is the team ANY better than last year?  We should have beaten OU and should have killed AS today.

I am not anti Pelphrey, but the way some of you guys annointed him the next John Wooden before he had even coached a  game here was amazing!  Maybe there was a reason he was at South Alabama?

Well being at S. Alabama is not bad because they have a history on winning on their level.For a small conference school they are 1 of the best over the last couple of decades.

Not jumping on Pelphrey but facts are facts of the ten head coaches S. Alabama has had Pelphrey finished in the bottom halve winning percentage wise.I listed this before but don't have the exact figure in front on me.

Like I said he had every right to take the job as I would have done the same, but ,,,,,, well we shall see.

[hogsanity]

Exactly!  We are getting a double standard here!   The prevailing view WAS that this team has talent and lacked coaching.   Well, where is this great coaching?  How is the team ANY better than last year?  We should have beaten OU and should have killed AS today.

I am not anti Pelphrey, but the way some of you guys annointed him the next John Wooden before he had even coached a  game here was amazing!  Maybe there was a reason he was at South Alabama?

The thing is, they had to hammer on Heath's coaching, because saying he just did not have good players would have made his 2 NCAA appearances look much better.  Now, with Pelphry, they have to blame the players, because he is new. 

Heath never recruited guys who could shoot.  Yea, they all scored tons in HS, because they were just better athletes than their competiton, but they just could not shoot.  And they still can not shoot, and they never will be able to shoot.

[Cajun Hog]

You can point out the short coming of the player, but we are going to get rude or crude about a kids in the program.  You can debate he plus and minus, all you want. 

We will not put up with attack a kids. This forum (Jump Ball) will not turn into the BS that was in MMQB.

[HawgG]

Pelphry took over a senior laden team, that can not shoot.  Period.  They can not make shots. 

Well like I said before this is the same group of guys from last year that played a few better nc teams and the SEC was much better last season as well.

Facts on experience along this team should be better, Weems, Beverley, Welsh, and Washington all had a year of college basketball under their belt and should be mentally and physically better.

Most of you all say that the HC is in place that suppose to be the cure with what was wrong, and brings the system that these players should excel in.

What is the problem then?

Maybe these players missed something they had last year, I don't know.

[hogsanity]

You can point out the short coming of the player, but we are going to get rude or crude about a kids in the program.  You can debate he plus and minus, all you want. 

We will not put up with attack a kids. This forum (Jump Ball) will not turn into the BS that was in MMQB.

Then someone better decide what is an attack.  Is it an attack to say a guy just can not make shots?  Or that he can not play man up defense in the post?

[hogsanity]

Well like I said before this is the same group of guys from last year that played a few better nc teams and the SEC was much better last season as well.

Facts on experience along this team should be better, Weems, Beverley, Welsh, and Washington all had a year of college basketball under their belt and should be mentally and physically better.

Most of you all say that the HC is in place that suppose to be the cure with what was wrong, and brings the system that these players should excel in.

What is the problem then?

Maybe these players missed something they had last year, I don't know.

We still have below avg pg play

[Cajun Hog]

Then someone better decide what is an attack.  Is it an attack to say a guy just can not make shots?  Or that he can not play man up defense in the post?

CRAP, hogsanity you have been here long enough to know what an attack is.  Here is an example of what will not fly, insert name ______ is a worthless pile of crap. This will get deleted or they might get deleted.  If you say Charles Thomas has to improve, his free throw shooting is fair.

[BradyHolzhauer]

You're wrong. A good coach would have found a way to win this one. Don't blame it on the players this time. We were out-coached. Plain and simple. Lots of talent on this team.

Appalachian State outcoached Stan Heath today. These guys have CLEARLY not bought into Pel's style of play.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.  They are used to walk it up the court, slow-or-no tempo basketball.  It's like an offensive lineman playing the role of Barry Sanders in football.  It isn't going to happen.  These guys are Heath's players through and through, and are NOT going to ever fit Pel's offense.  It's too late for them.  The years ahead are bright, my friend.

[Cajun Hog]

Sorry Triple P Your post makes no sense...Maybe you need to proof read..

What part of no attacking players do you NOT GET?

[HawgG]

We still have below avg pg play

Well you got me there.

Come to think about it we haven't had a good True PG in over a decade.

On Ervin he plays well when he is going no faster then 5 mph over the speed limit, but when sped up he gets into a lot of trouble, always have.

Control speed is what works best with and for Gary.We have seen him at his best like that.

[mword]

I thought it was big mistake firing Stan. Pel has the same bunch of players which are no where near NBA material and probably never will be.

[dmac4sainthood]

I think every win and every loss the blame is shared.  To say that any particular person doesn't have a share of the blame I believe is wrong.  The coaches and players all have some responsibility.

Now this is not a chicken little situation, but you have to see it for what it is.

[clew]

The players are not suited to run the offense that Pel wants to run.  They do not rotate over quickly enough on defense...they're just too slow to trap which creates defensive problems everywhere else.  also noted, they can't hit the broadside of a barn.  So, they can't play defense, they can't shoot, they can't hit free throws, they turn the ball over, they have poor guard play and have fundamentally flawed big men (one to score, one for defense).  There's just not much you can do with that.  Ugh.

i didn't see this game, but I did watch the OU game and base my comments on that. 

[condohog]

How else is PEL supposed to motivate them. He has tried benched them. It was worked some but we start slow. He has tried not benching them...still start slow. So finally he says okay either beat these guys or you don't go home for X-mas...still start slow. We still make the sloppy passes/turnovers. We still shoot horribly from the field and the free throw line.  It might have been Inman today that said the way to go into some one else's house and beat them is to take advantage of the free throw line. We can't seem to go one for two when the pressure is on.  All is not lost with this team but we probably do have a ceiling of success.

[hogsanity]

The players are not suited to run the offense that Pel wants to run.  They do not rotate over quickly enough on defense...they're just too slow to trap which creates defensive problems everywhere else.  also noted, they can't hit the broadside of a barn.  So, they can't play defense, they can't shoot, they can't hit free throws, they turn the ball over, they have poor guard play and have fundamentally flawed big men (one to score, one for defense).  There's just not much you can do with that.  Ugh.

i didn't see this game, but I did watch the OU game and base my comments on that. 

Funny, they did not seem suited to run Heaths snail pace either.  The fact is, they are not suited to play a game in which OUTSCORING the opponent is the object.

[chiefsfan]

Well being at S. Alabama is not bad because they have a history on winning on their level.For a small conference school they are 1 of the best over the last couple of decades.

Not jumping on Pelphrey but facts are facts of the ten head coaches S. Alabama has had Pelphrey finished in the bottom halve winning percentage wise.I listed this before but don't have the exact figure in front on me.

Like I said he had every right to take the job as I would have done the same, but ,,,,,, well we shall see.

Wow you are way off on the South Alabama thing.   Ive watched Sun Belt Basketball for 10 years.  before pelphrey got there.  an 8 win season was a success to South Alabama

[reddogjcss]

FCJ you are right one game they play ok the next game they stink, What's it going to take? 

[razorback93]

Should have practiced their free-throw shooting. Poor preparation in my opinion.

How do you KNOW they didn't practice ft shooting.  Do you think that they practice sometimes and not others? Maybe the do.   I seriously doubt any coach goes, "OK, guys we just lost a game in which we shot barely 50% of our fts.  Let's not practice them." 

When it comes to basketball IQ, these guys don't have it.  They are talented athletes who could dominate in one on one, or three man pick up games at the rec.  They are not consistent shooters, have lousy shot selection at times, and average at best ball handlers and passers.  I am all for holding coaches accountable, but with this group it MAY be a matter of expecting to make something out of this players that they just aren't.  You can't polish a turd.

[Hawgon]

Pelphrey may or may not be a good coach.  The jury is still out.  However, we just don't have any players.  They are all terrible.  There isn't a single player, with the exception of Beverly, that would have cracked the 10 man rotation on Nolan's best teams.  And Beverly, isn't any better, or maybe not as good, as Clint McDaniel.

Guys, don't believe all that crap about talent.  There really isn't all that much on this team.  And, to top it off, there aren't any basketball players either.  They are all dumb as a rock in their basketball IQ.

I've never been so glad to see a team ready to graduate a bunch of seniors.  Get some players.  Teach them to play correctly and then we'll see about Pelphrey.

[HawgG]

Wow you are way off on the South Alabama thing.   Ive watched Sun Belt Basketball for 10 years.  before pelphrey got there.  an 8 win season was a success to South Alabama

Education Time so pay attention.

South Alabama

Conference Tournament Champions
1989, 1991, 1997, 1998, 2006
Conference Regular Season Champions
1979, 1980, 1989, 1991, 1997, 1998, 2007

South Alabama's all-time winningest HC is Cliff Ellis.He had a 171-84 career record there.He also had S. Alabama ranked at one time in the Top 10 which very schools of that size have ever done.

Former NBA HC Bill Musselman(Minnesota Timberwolves) also coached at S. Alabama which shows that they are not your average small conference school.

Their arena The Mitchell Center is top class for schools of that size which says a lot about their program.

The South Alabama Jaguars men's basketball program has had a short but fairly successful history, despite being in the small Sun Belt Conference and located in a state dominated by football powerhouses Alabama and Auburn. In their 39 years of history, the Jaguars have compiled an overall record of 628-473 (.570).

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

All My GOD!!!

You people including FCJ shouldn't even post today if this is going to be the excuses.

You all know damn well if Stan was still the coach this and every other board would be killing the man for weeks.

Hell I still read about the Bucknell game and how long ago was that.

I have but one question for you guys, where was this not blaming the HC when Stan was here?

This team is better then last year with experience along the only change is on the coaching staff, hmmmmmm.

What's the old saying, what's good for the goose is,,,,,,,,,

Talk about a double standard, at least try and hide what yoy really feel.

This lost today is the worse lost I have ever seen a Razorbacks team have considering where the program started this season which was in the top 25 as brief as it might have been.

we lost to western carolina, troy, oru, bucknell under heath.

we were not ready to play but pelphrey is still about 10x the coach that coach heath was.

i guarantee this App state team would wipe the floor with last year's south carolina team. A team we lost to last year.

this team will be judged in SEC play. we went 7-9 last year btw.

[GRIMMHOG]

Pel will have his time here no matter how many idiots raise hell. I don't no why such an uproar did any one really think this team would be that good. If so what have you been watching the last few years. We will get a bunch of freshman next year and there will be some that think we should win it all. Pel is a good coach if you don't think so well we will have to listen to a bunch of dumb rants for a couple of years. I still say we will win more games this year than last and thats all I can ask for this team any way. New system same old players. We are not the pro's we can't just hire new one's in the middle of the season.

[waphill]

here is the problem with your thinking. these are not Pel's players. i bame Stan for his bad recruiting. i have said for three years that the talent on this team is way overrated. i have said that Pel get's blame because he's the head coach. but what do you want to do fire him after 12 games. good grief give the man a chance. Stan had 5 years and could not get it done.time will tell if Pel can get it done. i think he can.

You are correct. There were so many fools that came on here and said Heath was a great recruiter. That's bullcrap. The only big gun that made it to campus was Olu. He had a lot of near misses, but the fact is when here he was a average to below-average recruiter. 

[PigSnort]

Pel will have his time here no matter how many idiots raise hell. I don't no why such an uproar did any one really think this team would be that good. If so what have you been watching the last few years. We will get a bunch of freshman next year and there will be some that think we should win it all. Pel is a good coach if you don't think so well we will have to listen to a bunch of dumb rants for a couple of years. I still say we will win more games this year than last and thats all I can ask for this team any way. New system same old players. We are not the pro's we can't just hire new one's in the middle of the season.

There were a TON of posters who were predicting sweet 16 or better for this team preseason, now that they had a REAL coach!

What bothers me is, in some ways, this year's team seems LESS disciplined in basketball things, like turnovers, free throws, and shot selection.   I'm sorry, but for me the jury is still very much out on Pelphrey.

[parrishw]

"You must be able to recruit and develop talent"

Yep and it don't matter how good a shape they are in if they don't have the fire in their belly and the talent to learn and implement what you teach them.
Patrick Beverly has the fire and the talent but he is not a point guard, we have some good play from Charles and Townes and the other 2,3,and 4 position players. But they also cannot take over the point guard role

Weems has never lived up to his billing as a 3 Forward and Ervin is a train wreck waiting to happen every time he touches the ball. He should be making the offense work but instead he wants to be the offense. I like Steven Hill but he is not a dominant center and never will be.

It will be at least one more season after this before we might have a couple of good point guards on this team and that is what it takes to win.

After Pel has the chance to recruit and teach them for a year.
 

[Red Tusk]

CRAP, hogsanity you have been here long enough to know what an attack is.  Here is an example of what will not fly, insert name ______ is a worthless pile of crap. This will get deleted or they might get deleted.  If you say Charles Thomas has to improve, his free throw shooting is fair.

What happened to Thomas' free throw shot?? He used to amke them in his sleep! Guess when he lost weight his shot went too.  Da@#

[forrest city joe]

FCJ you are right one game they play ok the next game they stink, What's it going to take? 

It's going to take some guys making up their minds that they are  going to play hard and relaxed. if you are not relaxed, you will not play well. i get the feeling watching these guys that they are in a hurry on everything.and it's going to take these guys playing defense. you win with defense. and great FT shooting helps too.we lost yeasterday not because we did not shoot well. we lost because our defense made just 3 stops in the entire 2nd half. and we missed way to many FT's.

[TheOtherWhiteMeat!]

Relaxed - BINGO!!! With the exception of Townes, these guys are playing BELOW last year. They have NOT adjusted to a new coach, and that should not be a surprise, AND for whatever reason, these guys can't play at Alltel. We went last year :>( and SO glad we didn't this year...  I'm afraid this is a "lost" year unless they somehow snap to Pel's style!  I know being generous to coaches is not the "vibe" of Hville AND these are NOT his players... Gotta give him at least one more year than Stan got, and he should have gotten this year!!!  NOT anti-Pel, just looking for a good coach and longevity, not constant shuffling/rebuilding because of lack of patience.

[TheOtherWhiteMeat!]

AND I got creamed for this a couple of weeks ago, but I think (rightly or wrongly) these guys are NOT able to play ball. They are afraid of Pel (which may be a good thing, but I doubt it) and what appears to be his constant pacing and yelling instructions, I'm saying CONSTANT, is contributing to their inability to relax and play ball. I'd like to hear rational responses to this thought... With his own players all of that becomes moot; with these guys maybe not so much?

[jkstock04]

You are correct. There were so many fools that came on here and said Heath was a great recruiter. That's bullcrap. The only big gun that made it to campus was Olu. He had a lot of near misses, but the fact is when here he was a average to below-average recruiter. 

Exactly my thinking.....my understanding was that Heath was a sub-par coach but an excellent recruiter...what has happened to that popular theory??

[CDOGHOG]

As a team we didn't shoot well yesterday.  We have no decent point guard other than Welsh(who is playing point because we have nobody else).  We played a team that hit all their free throws and shot about 70% from the field.  There was almost no way to win.

Let's put this one behind us and move on and get better. 

[HawgG]

we lost to western carolina, troy, oru, bucknell under heath.

we were not ready to play but pelphrey is still about 10x the coach that coach heath was.

i guarantee this App state team would wipe the floor with last year's south carolina team. A team we lost to last year. this team will be judged in SEC play. we went 7-9 last year btw.

ROTFLMAO about your post Hollywood.

Thanks I needed that before heading to work.

[bd93]

[Dr. J.]

Joe, you are right. We don't have a guard. We dont' have a leader. We dont' have anyone that can shoot real well. And don't tell me about some token white boy on the bench that can not create their own shot. We don't have shooters.

You have hit the nail on the head.  Pelphrey played at a  Kentucky program where they had great 3 point shooters and liked to shoot them.  This team doesn't have one really good 3 point shooter.  Heath was never able to recruit that type of shooter.  Pelphrey will.  Just give him time.  Don't blame Pelphrey for Heath's poor recruiting.  Beverley is a good player, but can't do it all by himself, and he's been off lately in his shooting.  He needs someone to take the pressure off of him.  The recruits signed by this staff for next year will totally change the direction of this program.  Fortson is supposed to be outstanding at point guard, and Rotnai Clarke is supposed to be the next Alex Dillard.  Good things ahead.

[Dr. J.]

Should have practiced their free-throw shooting. Poor preparation in my opinion.

Have you ever been at a practice?  I can guarantee you they practice free throw shooting all the time.  I have practiced putting consistently for years and Dave Pelz couldn't make me a great putter.  You either can or can't.  And these guys can't. Or didn't.  This will probably be a one and out NCAA team if they're lucky enough to get there.  But maybe they'll have a great seed and win two games.  But first they have to get in.  I'm hoping they will.  But Coach Pel will have a winner.  Just give him some time to bring in the right type of players. 

[HotlantaHog]

we lost to western carolina, troy, oru, bucknell under heath.

To be fair, I don't think Heath lost to any teams the caliber of App State last year in the pre-SEC schedule. There were losses to Connecticut and Maryland. I am all for giving Coach Pel time (measured in many years), but I do think Heath was able to rally this team a year ago vs. midmajors.

[Smoking Pork]

Should have practiced their free-throw shooting. Poor preparation in my opinion.

Have you ever been at a practice?  I can guarantee you they practice free throw shooting all the time.  I have practiced putting consistently for years and Dave Pelz couldn't make me a great putter.  You either can or can't.  And these guys can't. Or didn't.  This will probably be a one and out NCAA team if they're lucky enough to get there.  But maybe they'll have a great seed and win two games.  But first they have to get in.  I'm hoping they will.  But Coach Pel will have a winner.  Just give him some time to bring in the right type of players. 

Maybe you should give up golf if you can't get any better with practice.