At some point we all have to stop blamming coaches

[forrest city joe]

And i said the same thing when Stan was here. the players on this team should be ashamed of themselves. they made App. state, look like NC or Memphis. the only thing i blame Stan for is the bad recruiting he did while he was here. App.st. had better skill players than we did with the little gaurd, and the post guy. i think that says it all about the kind of talent we have on this team. Pel has to take the blame because he's the head coach. but these players just can not get it done. and it matters not who is coaching them. it's very sad.

[Hoggy1]

And i said the same thing when Stan was here. the players on this team should be ashamed of themselves. they made App. state, look like NC or Memphis. the only thing i blame Stan for is the bad recruiting he did while he was here. App.st. had better skill players than we did with the little gaurd, and the post guy. i think that says it all about the kind of talent we have on this team. Pel has to take the blame because he's the head coach. but these players just can not get it done. and it matters not who is coaching them. it's very sad.

agree. any1 who says this is Pelphreys fault should feel like an a$$.  These players are mediocre.

[elksnort]

Joe, you are right. We don't have a guard. We dont' have a leader. We dont' have anyone that can shoot real well. And don't tell me about some token white boy on the bench that can not create their own shot. We don't have shooters.

[jeffshogs]

We are just not that talented.  And in my opinion we do not have a leader on the floor.  When the game starts to go "crazy" or get out of control, we just do not have that player to reinforce what we are trying to get done.  Not an expert, just what I see.

[BryantHog06]

I agree with you FCJ...we don't need to judge Coach Pel until he gets his players on campus.  The players he has are not very good.

[Smoking Pork]

And i said the same thing when Stan was here. the players on this team should be ashamed of themselves. they made App. state, look like NC or Memphis. the only thing i blame Stan for is the bad recruiting he did while he was here. App.st. had better skill players than we did with the little gaurd, and the post guy. i think that says it all about the kind of talent we have on this team. Pel has to take the blame because he's the head coach. but these players just can not get it done. and it matters not who is coaching them. it's very sad.

You're wrong. A good coach would have found a way to win this one. Don't blame it on the players this time. We were out-coached. Plain and simple. Lots of talent on this team.

[Smoking Pork]

Hey please.......you obviously do not know a lickin' thing about coaching.

What does lickin' have to do with coaching? What sport are you talking about?

[elksnort]

Talent? Really?

No, we are not that good. We might go 8-8 in the SEC.

[ErieHog]

Tell me how you blame a coach for going 3-11 from 3 range, and 14-25 at the line.

Here's a starter;  if you see their big man get the ball in the paint, make sure that you foul him hard enough that he's going to the line for 2, rather than trying to convert a 3rd.   Its not like we didn't have enough fouls to give on the inside, because nobody was bothering to defend.

[MF]

The not having a leader is a valid point.

IMO, our biggest problem is Ervin.  Between the turnovers and thinking that he is 6'6" when he drives into the trees and throws up some wild shot that usually gets blocked or has no chance of going in.

[Smoking Pork]

-1  FCJ knows what he's talking about.  And don't worry - he'd call out the coach if it were Pel's fault.

Bottom line - these players (primarily the upperclassmen) are mental softies, and they came into Alltel today expecting to have some Christmas fruitcake.  The good news is that Pel will be able to use this game as hard proof of the dangers of looking past an opponent.

-2
It's the coach who should have these guys mentally prepared. FCJ knows that as well.

[elksnort]

At least Ervin has a set. I'll be glad when he is gone, but he ain't skeered!

[Hoggy1]

At least Ervin has a set. I'll be glad when he is gone, but he ain't skeered!

more of a set than Hill.........JMO

[liteman]

players you got to be held up for this loss

[Smoking Pork]

We just fired a good man as our head coach because of these players. they could not win under him. and now this today.sometime you have to face up to the fact that it's not going to happen with these players.we can not keep firing coaches. i still support our team. players and coaches. it's going to take time to fix this program.

These players are fine. It's Pel's job to get them ready to play. They obviously weren't ready today. I support the team as well, but let's get this think rolling. I don't want any more excuses.

[forrest city joe]

-2
It's the coach who should have these guys mentally prepared. FCJ knows that as well.

I agree. that's why i said Pel has to take the blame because he is the head coach. but the bottom line is these players are not skilled enough,and can not play under pressure. Pel can not play for these players.

[jschulte]

We just fired a good man as our head coach because of these players. they could not win under him. and now this today.sometime you have to face up to the fact that it's not going to happen with these players.we can not keep firing coaches. i still support our team. players and coaches. it's going to take time to fix this program.

We fired him because he recruited these players. Stan is not an innocent victim here. 

[jschulte]

These players are fine. It's Pel's job to get them ready to play. They obviously weren't ready today. I support the team as well, but let's get this think rolling. I don't want any more excuses.

I don't know your definition of fine.. but these kids can't make a shot to save their life.

[Newcoachplease]

These players are fine. It's Pel's job to get them ready to play. They obviously weren't ready today. I support the team as well, but let's get this think rolling. I don't want any more excuses.

these players are not fine. We blamed Heath for them underperforming. You could probably get Coach K, Bobby Knight, or Phil Jackson and they probably couldnt make them play better!

[forrest city joe]

We fired him because he recruited these players. Stan is not an innocent victim here. 

I agree. my point is Pel did not recruite most of these un-skilled players. we need to give him time.

[Spider-Pig]

You cant blame Pel for the players going 14 - 25 free throws

[elksnort]

I agree. that's why i said Pel has to take the blame because he is the head coach. but the bottom line is these players are not skilled enough,and can not play under pressure. Pel can not play for these players.

Unless Pelphrey recruited these players then he can not help that he does not have any shooters. Does this make sense?

You can lead a horse to water, but can you make it drink?

[jkstock04]

Their big man absolutley man handled Townes from what I watched of the game.....that game was awful, regardless of who's fault it was.

[Smoking Pork]

You cant blame Pel for the players going 14 - 25 free throws

Should have practiced their free-throw shooting. Poor preparation in my opinion.

[jschulte]

I agree. my point is Pel did not recruite most of these un-skilled players. we need to give him time.

of course, I am pro-pel entirely

[jschulte]

Should have practiced their free-throw shooting. Poor preparation in my opinion.

What if they actually OVER practiced them, and we just don't know.  Maybe their arms are too tired

[Smoking Pork]

Unless Pelphrey recruited these players then he can not help that he does not have any shooters. Does this make sense?

You can lead a horse to water, but can you make it drink?

You don't think Heath recruited better all-around players than App. State? Please.

[jschulte]

We aren't shooting well, and GARY ERVIN IS HORRIBLE! NOT MARGINAL, NOT OK...HORRIBLE!!!

Please, come on now.  He is not the (only) problem with the team.  The team lost it, not just gary.

[Topcat]

These players have a lot of athletic ability so we get suckered into the idea that they will become better basketball players. App State showed today that a lay up is just as good as a flashy dunk. I'm not buying in to that kind of thinking any more. We need basketball players instead of highlight films.

[elksnort]

These players have a lot of athletic ability so we get suckered into the idea that they will become better basketball players. App State showed today that a lay up is just as good as a flashy dunk. I'm not buying in to that kind of thinking any more. We need basketball players instead of highlight films.

Good post.
Thanks, at least someone is not delusional.

[forrest city joe]

Good points by everyone. but the big thing in this game just like against OU was unsound defense. we only made three defensive stops the entire second half. you can not beat anyone playing defense like that. you better be able to shoot it true. but if you can not play defense and make stops. you will not win. this team is unsound and gambles to much on defense. we never made the big guy go to his right all game. he went left everytime and know one stopped him. that's unsound defense.

[jeffshogs]

We are soft inside and we have erratic guards.  I will give Coach Pelfrey (PELPHREY) time.  He is trying to sprint with distance runners.

[Hoggy1]

We are soft inside and we have erratic guards.  I will give Coach Pelfrey time.  He is trying to sprint with distance runners.

who the hell is Pelfrey?

[naturalbornpigger]

A couple of things I question. 

1) We still don't know how to attack a 2-1-2 or 2-3 zone defense.  As little as I think of Ervin, at least he understands attacking the seams of the zone.  Where is the wing play?  Or high post play for that matter.

2)  ASUs big men were KILLING us 1-on-1.  Either drop to a zone and make them shoot over you or double-down on the ball when it comes inside.  We did neither.

I'm not down on Pelphrey, but he was badly outcoached today.

[Topcat]

Good points by everyone. but the big thing in this game just like against OU was unsound defense. we only made three defensive stops the entire second half. you can not beat anyone playing defense like that. you better be able to shoot it true. but if you can not play defense and make stops. you will not win. this team is unsound and gambles to much on defense. we never made the big guy go to his right all game. he went left everytime and know one stopped him. that's unsound defense.

Agreed, as a defender you have to take away any player's pet move. The only criticism i could have of Pelphrey today would be no double down on Minter, but they shot the ball so well it may not have mattered. It was just so obvious that Townes couldn't even slow the guy down. Hill did a better job on him but you don't have any offense with Hill in the game. Again, better players are the only answer.   

[PorkRyan]

A couple of things I question. 

1) We still don't know how to attack a 2-1-2 or 2-3 zone defense.  As little as I think of Ervin, at least he understands attacking the seams of the zone.  Where is the wing play?  Or high post play for that matter.

2)  ASUs big men were KILLING us 1-on-1.  Either drop to a zone and make them shoot over you or double-down on the ball when it comes inside.  We did neither.

I'm not down on Pelphrey, but he was badly outcoached today.

You nailed it and why everyone can't see it blows my mind.  We never did anything to stop their half court offense the entire game.  A box and one would have been gold.  At least double down on the big man.  We let them do the same thing over and over for 40 minutes. 

Our defense was awful against OU as well.

[jeffshogs]

My bad GiveEmHellPel  PELPHREY.  I am an English teacher but spelling is not my strong point.

[forrest city joe]

You nailed it and why everyone can't see it blows my mind.  We never did anything to stop their half court offense the entire game.  A box and one would have been gold.  At least double down on the big man.  We let them do the same thing over and over for 40 minutes. 

Our defense was awful against OU as well.

I have said that Pel is the head coach so he has to take most of the blame. but it's time to stop giving these players a free ride. these seniors have been around 4 years now. and im seeing most of the same things i saw when they first got here.at some point we better stop blamming coaches. notice how Nolan became a better coach when he got Todd Day and Lee mayberry?and when he got Corliss and scotty? it comes down to players. but yes coaching helps. im going to give Pel time to prove me wrong. but i think he will get it done here.

[naturalbornpigger]

I have said that Pel is the head coach so he has to take most of the blame. but it's time to stop giving these players a free ride. these seniors have been around 4 years now. and im seeing most of the same things i saw when they first got here.at some point we better stop blamming coaches. notice how Nolan became a better coach when he got Todd Day and Lee mayberry?and when he got Corliss and scotty? it comes down to players. but yes coaching helps. im going to give Pel time to prove me wrong. but i think he will get it done here.

i'll also say that Pel is trying to overcome 3 years of weak coaching with these seniors.  Let's see what March looks like.

[want2be]

Pel is turning players that were lazy, out of shape, and rebellious into disciplined 40 minutes of Pell.

They had a bad day and were outplayed.

Sit back and enjoy my Avatar......they continue to bounce !!

[Chuck Porker]

Just got home from the game.
Did our defense, shooting and FT attempts look as bad on TV as they did at Alltel?

[bassman1994]

It's the coaches responsibility to make sure his team gets "up" for a game.  He takes the responsibility for his team, not the players.  Although the players, in my opinion don't even look like they have an inch of pride for the jersey they wear, it's Pelphrey's responsibility.  I believe in him and I'm sure it will improve with his own players, but the gig is a tough one until that time.  If you can't motivate your team for App State, it's not a good sign.

[BallHog1]

Have to smile at your post FC Joe. As a former labeled "hugger" though I wasn't one for Stan or the unmentionable one, I attempted this type of logic with friends and neighbors over the last year or two. The roles have changed I guess. I don't blame Pel and I didn't really blame Stan, though I "think" Pel is a better coach, he still has to prove it. Bottom line is we didn't have the horses then and we may not have them now. We shall see. In the meantime I'm content with the coaching he's doing until he gets his own players in here. At least effort and desire are evident, thats more than before.

[HawgG]

All My GOD!!!

You people including FCJ shouldn't even post today if this is going to be the excuses.

You all know damn well if Stan was still the coach this and every other board would be killing the man for weeks.

Hell I still read about the Bucknell game and how long ago was that.

I have but one question for you guys, where was this not blaming the HC when Stan was here?

This team is better then last year with experience along the only change is on the coaching staff, hmmmmmm.

What's the old saying, what's good for the goose is,,,,,,,,,

Talk about a double standard, at least try and hide what yoy really feel.

This lost today is the worse lost I have ever seen a Razorbacks team have considering where the program started this season which was in the top 25 as brief as it might have been.

[jeffreyw]

I want to begin by saying I do like Pel. However, when Stan was coaching it was his fault the players were lackluster because of their 'lack of effort'. Well, two a days, players in shape, and summer workouts - what is the result? The same. Before you go bad mouthing the players, who by the way are 'kids' - hold accountable those who are to be held accountable. The coaches. They may not have recruited these players, but Pel knew what he was signing up for when he came to Arkansas. Youmust be able to recruit AND develop talent. Lay off the 'players' some. Geez.

[HawgG]

Have to smile at your post FC Joe. As a former labeled "hugger" though I wasn't one for Stan or the unmentionable one, I attempted this type of logic with friends and neighbors over the last year or two. The roles have changed I guess. I don't blame Pel and I didn't really blame Stan, though I "think" Pel is a better coach, he still has to prove it. Bottom line is we didn't have the horses then and we may not have them now. We shall see. In the meantime I'm content with the coaching he's doing until he gets his own players in here. At least effort and desire are evident, thats more than before.

Their resumes say Stan is the better HC and it is not even close.FACTS

[PorkRyan]

Their resumes say Stan is the better HC and it is not even close.FACTS

That's the thing people forget about Pelphrey.  It is not like he has the resume of Nick Saban or Petrino.  The guy was a marginally successful coach in the Sunbelt.

I hope he does well, because I like his style.  But he is an unkown as an SEC head coach.

[forrest city joe]

All My GOD!!!

You people including FCJ shouldn't even post today if this is going to be the excuses.

You all know damn well if Stan was still the coach this and every other board would be killing the man for weeks.

Hell I still read about the Bucknell game and how long ago was that.

I have but one question for you guys, where was this not blaming the HC when Stan was here?

This team is better then last year with experience along the only change is on the coaching staff, hmmmmmm.

What's the old saying, what's good for the goose is,,,,,,,,,

Talk about a double standard, at least try and hide what yoy really feel.

This lost today is the worse lost I have ever seen a Razorbacks team have considering where the program started this season which was in the top 25 as brief as it might have been.

here is the problem with your thinking. these are not Pel's players. i bame Stan for his bad recruiting. i have said for three years that the talent on this team is way overrated. i have said that Pel get's blame because he's the head coach. but what do you want to do fire him after 12 games. good grief give the man a chance. Stan had 5 years and could not get it done.time will tell if Pel can get it done. i think he can.

[BallHog1]

Their resumes say Stan is the better HC and it is not even close.FACTS

He may be but I sense a fire in Pel that will result in him being the better in the end. As I said before, we shall see.

[forrest city joe]

Just got home from the game.
Did our defense, shooting and FT attempts look as bad on TV as they did at Alltel?

Yes it did. i said in another thread that unsound defense lost this game. and you casn add FT shooting too.we only had three defensive stops in the entire second half. you can not and will not win games with defense like that.