I challenge everyone to join their local officiating association

[hogsanity]

and start calling basketball next season. We could use more officials, and some of you, especially if you are young, could have a chance to move up rapidly if you are good at it. I am not joking, I know 23, 24 yr olds that are already doing JUCO games. Maybe we could even call some games together depending on what areas you are in or meet up at the state association clinic later this year.

I am serious. PM me if you want to know how to sign up.

[hogsanity]

over 80 views, but so far no takers.

[Science Fiction Greg]

Most people have jobs already.

[hawginbigd1]

Most people have jobs already.

For most like me it's not a job or a hobby, I do it because I love the game!

[hogsanity]

Most people have jobs already.

Most people that officiate on the scholastic level have jobs already, so.....

[Science Fiction Greg]

Most people that officiate on the scholastic level have jobs already, so.....

Expecting people to take on a second job based on your message board challenge is...well, let's just call it ridiculous and leave it at that.  You were acting shocked that 80 people viewed your silly thread and no one ran out and joined their local OA.  Come on.

[hogsanity]

Expecting people to take on a second job based on your message board challenge is...well, let's just call it ridiculous and leave it at that.  You were acting shocked that 80 people viewed your silly thread and no one ran out and joined their local OA.  Come on.

Well, actually I have had 2 contact me about it since then.

But you obviously missed the bigger point of my OP.

[Science Fiction Greg]

Well, actually I have had 2 contact me about it since then.

But you obviously missed the bigger point of my OP.

No, I got your point.  It was just ridiculously poorly made.

[Dropkick]

I hope you hear from some younger folks in NEA that are interested.

We need more qualified officials.

[GuvHog]

Well, actually I have had 2 contact me about it since then.

But you obviously missed the bigger point of my OP.

I had given it serious consideration several times in my life but my job precluded me from doing it. Now, my health won't allow it.

I have a close friend who was a High School football official for 3 years here in Arkansas but walked away from it in disgust when he caught two of his fellow crew members taking bribes.

[hogsanity]

I have a close friend who was a High School football official for 3 years here in Arkansas but walked away from it in disgust when he caught two of his fellow crew members taking bribes.

I do not believe that for one second.

[Hawgndaaz]

I do not believe that for one second.

Ha, I wholeheartedly believe it. I've played in games where the calls make no sense whatsoever other than protecting an outcome.

If referees have been busted at the professional level trying to fix games, you bet your ass it happens at every other level too.

[hogsanity]

Ha, I wholeheartedly believe it. I've played in games where the calls make no sense whatsoever other than protecting an outcome.

If referees have been busted at the professional level trying to fix games, you bet your ass it happens at every other level too.

The calls make no sense TO YOU.

I'd like to know at what level these games where Guv's friend saw refs taking bribes AND when it was.

[Hawgndaaz]

The calls make no sense TO YOU.

I'd like to know at what level these games where Guv's friend saw refs taking bribes AND when it was.

Mine were high school hoops. I don't think it is near as likely to shave points as a ref OR player in football, but hoops is super suspicious to me at all levels.

[Dropkick]

I do not believe that for one second.

So you don't think that has ever happened?

[hogsanity]

Mine were high school hoops. I don't think it is near as likely to shave points as a ref OR player in football, but hoops is super suspicious to me at all levels.

I readily admit hoops would be the easiest to shave points, which is why most of the major gambling busts for pt shaving have been in bball.

[Knot2brite]

I am too busy coaching....I already know the rules

[AlmaHog2011]

Did more than my fair share. Loved it for the most part but basketball is the hardest sport by far to officiate. And the most fun.

[hawkhawg]

I had given it serious consideration several times in my life but my job precluded me from doing it. Now, my health won't allow it.

I have a close friend who was a High School football official for 3 years here in Arkansas but walked away from it in disgust when he caught two of his fellow crew members taking bribes.

Refs do not care who wins. They just want to get game over, collect their check and go home.

[GuvHog]

The calls make no sense TO YOU.

I'd like to know at what level these games where Guv's friend saw refs taking bribes AND when it was.

As I stated, My friend was a high school football official for 3 years and that is why he quit. He never gave me names or any other details, just said that it happened.

[TomasPistola]

I do not believe that for one second.

I'd believe if it anyone other than Guv had posted it.

As I stated, My friend was a high school football official for 3 years and that is why he quit. He never gave me names or any other details, just said that it happened.

There you go. Made up like all his other "facts".

[GuvHog]

Ha, I wholeheartedly believe it. I've played in games where the calls make no sense whatsoever other than protecting an outcome.

If referees have been busted at the professional level trying to fix games, you bet your ass it happens at every other level too.

The AOA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the state of Arkansas. It exists as a completely separate entity from the AAA solely to protect the officials and has total control over High School and Junior High officiating in this state. I have wished for years that the AAA would grow some intestinal fortitude and start licensing their own officials and take control away from the AOA.

[tennesseehogwild]

and start calling basketball next season. We could use more officials, and some of you, especially if you are young, could have a chance to move up rapidly if you are good at it. I am not joking, I know 23, 24 yr olds that are already doing JUCO games. Maybe we could even call some games together depending on what areas you are in or meet up at the state association clinic later this year.

I am serious. PM me if you want to know how to sign up.

At one of our TSSAA Local Officials Meetings (Tennessee) Our Assigner says he wants everyone aged 18-25 to stand. About 10 stand. Aged 25-35 ...about 15 stand...Aged 35-45....about 25-30 stand.  Over age 45...80% of the officials stand. See where he was going with it?  What better way, for a young single guy who likes sports, to make some pretty good money? Plus they really do need the young guys to carry on the profession. Great post Sanity!

[AlmaHog2011]

Refs do not care who wins. They just want to get game over, collect their check and go home.

Mostly true. But I have seen plenty of guys have a grudge against a coach or even a player.

[arkfan81]

I do not believe that for one second.

I disagree wholeheartedly. (Enough money and tough situations,) any ref will cheat in any sport.

Remember The nba ref who was caught fixing games, and there was the soccer scandal.

[AlmaHog2011]

I do not believe that for one second.

Are you serious? You officiate and you are going to act like shady stuff doesn't happen?

There are some really bad officials. I miss it but am now to busy and don't have the time. If you get with a good friend and do games it's awesome fun. It's also a great workout and you make a little money. I think to get younger people involved the pay needs to be upped by a good amount.

[tennesseehogwild]

Mostly true. But I have seen plenty of guys have a grudge against a coach or even a player.

I have worked with guys that were hot heads and they weren't around long. Never saw or heard of anyone in my association fixing games. In our meetings and in my crew's pregame.. it is stressed to get the call right by talking about it. but to not over officiate.

[Hogcephus]

I called over 1000 high school basketball games and I have never heard of an official that was offered or accepted money as a bribe. I absolutely do not believe that.

[hogsanity]

At one of our TSSAA Local Officials Meetings (Tennessee) Our Assigner says he wants everyone aged 18-25 to stand. About 10 stand. Aged 25-35 ...about 15 stand...Aged 35-45....about 25-30 stand.  Over age 45...80% of the officials stand. See where he was going with it?  What better way, for a young single guy who likes sports, to make some pretty good money? Plus they really do need the young guys to carry on the profession. Great post Sanity!

Average age of a HS football official in Ar is 54. so I know exactly what you are talking about in age.

[hogsanity]

Are you serious? You officiate and you are going to act like shady stuff doesn't happen?

There are some really bad officials. I miss it but am now to busy and don't have the time. If you get with a good friend and do games it's awesome fun. It's also a great workout and you make a little money. I think to get younger people involved the pay needs to be upped by a good amount.

what do you think the pay rate should be for a pair of HS basketball games or for a Friday night football game? What do you think those get paid now?

[rzrbackramsfan]

and start calling basketball next season. We could use more officials, and some of you, especially if you are young, could have a chance to move up rapidly if you are good at it. I am not joking, I know 23, 24 yr olds that are already doing JUCO games. Maybe we could even call some games together depending on what areas you are in or meet up at the state association clinic later this year.

I am serious. PM me if you want to know how to sign up.

I actually did a game once, it was fun.  I've though about it, but I have to many hobbies I want to pursue ahead of that.  Maybe down the road.

[Knot2brite]

The AOA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the state of Arkansas. It exists as a completely separate entity from the AAA solely to protect the officials and has total control over High School and Junior High officiating in this state. I have wished for years that the AAA would grow some intestinal fortitude and start licensing their own officials and take control away from the AOA.

That would require the leadership of the AAA to have a set of balls
Between all of them and they do not have any...including the board ...the AAA is afraid to actually punish any official because they are afraid that the officials will all quit and we won't have any left...and then there won't be any games played and then the AAA can't make money and those jack asses will actually have to get a job in which they are held responsible for their actions ....and we all know that the fine Prince Lance can't do work...that isn't a part of his job description...

[hogsanity]

That would require the leadership of the AAA to have a set of balls
Between all of them and they do not have any...including the board ...the AAA is afraid to actually punish any official because they are afraid that the officials will all quit and we won't have any left...and then there won't be any games played and then the AAA can't make money and those jack asses will actually have to get a job in which they are held responsible for their actions ....and we all know that the fine Prince Lance can't do work...that isn't a part of his job description...

Look, I just go call the games I get assigned. I do not get involved in the inner workings of the AAA. But what is the AAA supposed to punish officials for? Unless they are caught taking bribes, do you punish them just because some fans or coach thinks the ref is bad?

But I'll say this, all these schools and all these parents and fans at these schools want to have football, baseball, basketball and whatever other sports and all of those take officials. As it is there is a shortage of officials in every sport because younger people either do it for a year and do not want to deal with all the crap, or they never start at all. The average age of a football official in AR is 54. Not sure about basketball or baseball, but judging by those associations I am in, it is about the same. We attend camps at our own expense to get better at what we do. We drive 2,3,4 hours to work games because there are so few refs in some areas that they have to bring us in from that far away. We take off work early to go do a baseball game because they want to start at 3:30 or 4 because the field has no lights.

People seem to think that officials are just sitting around thinking up ways to screw over this team or that coach, when usually all we are thinking is " How the heck do you get to Hoxie? When do I need to leave to get to Fouke? Where is the field in Highland? We do not know the coaches, the players or the fans, we show up at least 90 minutes before kickoff for a Friday night game, or at least 30 minutes before tip off of a varsity game. We listen to jackwagons, who couldn't pass the officials test if you gave them the answer key, yell for 2 or 3 hours about how every call was wrong. We have to have LEO escort to our vehicle after games because of same said jackwagons. And we don't do it for the $, that is for sure.

[HogBreath]

I challenge these officials to pull their heads out of their keisters.

[GuvHog]

Look, I just go call the games I get assigned. I do not get involved in the inner workings of the AAA. But what is the AAA supposed to punish officials for? Unless they are caught taking bribes, do you punish them just because some fans or coach thinks the ref is bad?

But I'll say this, all these schools and all these parents and fans at these schools want to have football, baseball, basketball and whatever other sports and all of those take officials. As it is there is a shortage of officials in every sport because younger people either do it for a year and do not want to deal with all the crap, or they never start at all. The average age of a football official in AR is 54. Not sure about basketball or baseball, but judging by those associations I am in, it is about the same. We attend camps at our own expense to get better at what we do. We drive 2,3,4 hours to work games because there are so few refs in some areas that they have to bring us in from that far away. We take off work early to go do a baseball game because they want to start at 3:30 or 4 because the field has no lights.

People seem to think that officials are just sitting around thinking up ways to screw over this team or that coach, when usually all we are thinking is " How the heck do you get to Hoxie? When do I need to leave to get to Fouke? Where is the field in Highland? We do not know the coaches, the players or the fans, we show up at least 90 minutes before kickoff for a Friday night game, or at least 30 minutes before tip off of a varsity game. We listen to jackwagons, who couldn't pass the officials test if you gave them the answer key, yell for 2 or 3 hours about how every call was wrong. We have to have LEO escort to our vehicle after games because of same said jackwagons. And we don't do it for the $, that is for sure.

I respect what you do Sanity and I believe most officials are honest. I also understand that bad calls and missed calls will occasionally happen because officials are human but when it gets to the point that inept officiating is costing teams games they should win, something has to be done. In my years of following High School Football and Basketball, I've witnessed it too many times. I've actually sat by retired officials at games who couldn't believe the inept officiating they were seeing.

[ShadowHawg]

There are people who try to blame officials for every game. Then there is Sanity, who doesn't believe that officials employ their bias in games.

I have read where Sanity himself says that he and his fellow officials will call fouls early to dissuade pressing teams from being aggressive in games he calls. That isn't "cheating" for teams that play his preferred style because he isn't taking money, right?

Both groups that think most refs are on the take and those who believe officials are unbiased, upstanding individuals who only care about the game are RIDICULOUS.

I have seen things as a player and coach that were absolutely cases of refs intentionally influencing games.

I played in a game where our opponent shot 41 free throws and we shot 7. We had played this team 2 previous games, which were decided at the buzzer. We lost this game by 30.

I guess it was coincidence that two of the 3 refs used in that game had been banned from ever calling a game in our home gym over a dispute about fees?

[majp51]

and start calling basketball next season. We could use more officials, and some of you, especially if you are young, could have a chance to move up rapidly if you are good at it. I am not joking, I know 23, 24 yr olds that are already doing JUCO games. Maybe we could even call some games together depending on what areas you are in or meet up at the state association clinic later this year.

I am serious. PM me if you want to know how to sign up.

Hog, you should know by now that people like to make excuses. The ref's are a convenient one, in fact it is the first excuse of every "true fan" of every sport that exists.

I used to ref, soccer not Basketball, but being on the wrong side of 45, and with a condition that has left me with actual blind spots in my right eye, I do believe I'm not you target audience.

[HogBreath]

Hog, you should know by now that people like to make excuses. The ref's are a convenient one, in fact it is the first excuse of every "true fan" of every sport that exists.

I used to ref, soccer not Basketball, but being on the wrong side of 45, and with a condition that has left me with actual blind spots in my right eye, I do believe I'm not you target audience.

Don't let that stop ya.  From what I've seen, most refs have blind spots in both eyes.  You're good to go.

[hogsanity]

Hog, you should know by now that people like to make excuses. The ref's are a convenient one, in fact it is the first excuse of every "true fan" of every sport that exists.

I used to ref, soccer not Basketball, but being on the wrong side of 45, and with a condition that has left me with actual blind spots in my right eye, I do believe I'm not you target audience.

Again, I do not bristle at the idea that refs make bad calls, I know we do, every official makes bad calls. It is the idea that officials are intentionally corrupt or are cheating that bugs me. On this board it is the idea that the refs are always out to get the Hogs. For some reason every officiating crew that does a Hog game in football or basketball, according to some here, get together to come up with ways to rip off Arkansas.

There are people who try to blame officials for every game. Then there is Sanity, who doesn't believe that officials employ their bias in games.

I have read where Sanity himself says that he and his fellow officials will call fouls early to dissuade pressing teams from being aggressive in games he calls. That isn't "cheating" for teams that play his preferred style because he isn't taking money, right?

Both groups that think most refs are on the take and those who believe officials are unbiased, upstanding individuals who only care about the game are RIDICULOUS.

I have seen things as a player and coach that were absolutely cases of refs intentionally influencing games.

I played in a game where our opponent shot 41 free throws and we shot 7. We had played this team 2 previous games, which were decided at the buzzer. We lost this game by 30.

I guess it was coincidence that two of the 3 refs used in that game had been banned from ever calling a game in our home gym over a dispute about fees?

No, we are not trying to dissuade pressure, we are trying to dissuade hacking grabbing and slapping.

Case in pt, I worked a game this week where neither team pressed, and only one team played man to man, but both teams trapped and both got beat off the dribble all night. I think we called 52 fouls and could have called a lot more probably. No one wants to watch that, but had we not tried to get them to quit doing those things there likely would have been blood on the court, I mean these teams were rough.

I worked another this week where, both teams pressed, both played man to man, but neither team trapped much and both were very good defensively. Neither team was in the bonus in the 1st half, and only one got their late in the 4th Q when they were trying to foul to force free throws.

I did not change the things I was calling fouls on, they just did not violate the rules nearly as often as the 1st two teams I mentioned. 

[factchecker]

The same goes for the coaching profession.

Instead of bitching about poor coaching - go out and work your way up the ranks to become a collegiate coach.

Hell, the same can go for our recruiting and talent level.

Instead of bitching about poor talent levels - get off the computer and coach up your kids.  Send them to camps. Invest money into the local athletic programs.  Do whatever you can to create better talent and send them to the hill.

Funny how you can take a darn on a coach or players BUT god forbid you critique an official.

[Pig Power]

Hate do be the materialistic weasel in the bunch, but does it pay well?

[Knot2brite]

Look, I just go call the games I get assigned. I do not get involved in the inner workings of the AAA. But what is the AAA supposed to punish officials for? Unless they are caught taking bribes, do you punish them just because some fans or coach thinks the ref is bad?

But I'll say this, all these schools and all these parents and fans at these schools want to have football, baseball, basketball and whatever other sports and all of those take officials. As it is there is a shortage of officials in every sport because younger people either do it for a year and do not want to deal with all the crap, or they never start at all. The average age of a football official in AR is 54. Not sure about basketball or baseball, but judging by those associations I am in, it is about the same. We attend camps at our own expense to get better at what we do. We drive 2,3,4 hours to work games because there are so few refs in some areas that they have to bring us in from that far away. We take off work early to go do a baseball game because they want to start at 3:30 or 4 because the field has no lights.

People seem to think that officials are just sitting around thinking up ways to screw over this team or that coach, when usually all we are thinking is " How the heck do you get to Hoxie? When do I need to leave to get to Fouke? Where is the field in Highland? We do not know the coaches, the players or the fans, we show up at least 90 minutes before kickoff for a Friday night game, or at least 30 minutes before tip off of a varsity game. We listen to jackwagons, who couldn't pass the officials test if you gave them the answer key, yell for 2 or 3 hours about how every call was wrong. We have to have LEO escort to our vehicle after games because of same said jackwagons. And we don't do it for the $, that is for sure.

Hey how about they punish the same set of officials that blew eight calls in one game ( all on film and the officials were shown these ) and six calls in the next game they called ( at a different place ) and then both films were sent to the AAA and they do nothing. So now that crew knows that they have had film sent in on them and they have one more game and they go out of their way to not call a single thing against your opponent because they are butt hurt. How about the officials that tell you that although the rule book says it that they aren't calling it because they don't see it that way. Are officials on the take? Nah...do some officials become buddies with coaches and help them out so that they can keep officiating at that school because it is easy and the money is good...yes and I have had them tell me it....yeah I am jaded because I know how a official can change a game with out anyone being able to prove it...

[hogsanity]

The same goes for the coaching profession.

Instead of bitching about poor coaching - go out and work your way up the ranks to become a collegiate coach.

Hell, the same can go for our recruiting and talent level.

Instead of bitching about poor talent levels - get off the computer and coach up your kids.  Send them to camps. Invest money into the local athletic programs.  Do whatever you can to create better talent and send them to the hill.

Funny how you can take a darn on a coach or players BUT god forbid you critique an official.

Just like coaches and players, there are officials that are better than others. I think Anderson is a good coach. I do not think Anderson is as good as Coach K. I think Morris is a good coach. I do not think he is as good as Nick Saban. I think DVH is the best college baseball coach in d1.

As for critiquing and official, to me that would be " That guy was out of position on the baseline to make that call " that is a critique. Simply saying " that ref sucks, is crooked, has it in for Coach X " that is not a critique.

[hawgfan4life]

I will vouch for the need for officials and it isn't just basketball.  The shortage is becoming so bad that there is serious discussion that some smaller schools may have to start playing their games on a day other than Friday to be able to have an officiating crew.  I would strongly encourage anybody looking for some extra money that has a sporting background to consider getting into officiating because there is a huge problem looming for high school athletics if people do not start filling those ranks. 

[Uncle SI]

In high school, I called jr high games at the NLR Boys and Girls club. I only did it for 2 seasons but I can tell you that was quite the experience. Refs can't see anything on the court like we can at home. Each ref is responsible for a certain part of the court which is why you see refs rotate with the ball movement. Do refs blow calls- Yes, do refs make up missed calls- Yes, do refs hold grudges- Yes. The reason all of these were yes' is b/c they are human. Speaking from experience, the crowd plays a decent role in the way a game is called. I think this is a small part of the reason we're so successful at Bud.  When the Bud is rocking, you usually see refs shallow the whistle. We play a very aggressive D with A LOT of hand checking. Those usually go unnoticed at home while on the road the refs seem to not let us get into a defensive rhythm. I would like to see us mix it up with a little more zone on the road especially early on so we can try to stay out of foul trouble and get more bounds defensively.
Just my 2 cents but in Mike I trust.
WPS

[ShadowHawg]

Again, I do not bristle at the idea that refs make bad calls, I know we do, every official makes bad calls. It is the idea that officials are intentionally corrupt or are cheating that bugs me. On this board it is the idea that the refs are always out to get the Hogs. For some reason every officiating crew that does a Hog game in football or basketball, according to some here, get together to come up with ways to rip off Arkansas.

No, we are not trying to dissuade pressure, we are trying to dissuade hacking grabbing and slapping.

Case in pt, I worked a game this week where neither team pressed, and only one team played man to man, but both teams trapped and both got beat off the dribble all night. I think we called 52 fouls and could have called a lot more probably. No one wants to watch that, but had we not tried to get them to quit doing those things there likely would have been blood on the court, I mean these teams were rough.

I worked another this week where, both teams pressed, both played man to man, but neither team trapped much and both were very good defensively. Neither team was in the bonus in the 1st half, and only one got their late in the 4th Q when they were trying to foul to force free throws.

I did not change the things I was calling fouls on, they just did not violate the rules nearly as often as the 1st two teams I mentioned.

You have a bias against agressive defense. You keep stating it in this forum but you can't seem to hear yourself.

Full court man to man isn't a press.

You sound like the kind of ref that gets teams from the western part of the state killed when they go to play in regionals and state tournaments in the other parts of the state.

Get outside the North/West corridor and the game is played much more physical than the sissy stuff you see up there.

Bad calls are a part of the game just like layups or any other facet. Making bad calls doesn't make someone a bad ref. Carrying a bias into a game or developing one during a game is what makes for poor officiating.