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S.I. quotes Broyles on the spread offense from 1968

Started by WizardofhOgZ, January 09, 2013, 06:25:36 pm

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WizardofhOgZ


Probably 80% of the folks who visit this board don't realize (and, in many cases, care) that Broyles was considered not only a leading coach of his generation, but an "innovator" and leader, sought out by his peers and the media for his reaction/input on the latest trends in the game.

In this brief 2008 article about the proliferation of spread offenses, a Broyles quote from 1968 is referenced as an example.  Just ran across it looking for something else and thought I'd post for those that might be interested.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/sioncampus/09/02/mythbusters.spread/


 

DeltaBoy

TCU  Coach Dutch Meyer wrote the book Spread formation football in the 1950' s
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

12247

We ran a verison of the spread in 1963 in High School.  We were not a good football team aqnd coach thought he could get his BETTER PLAYERS open if he spread the field.  We lined up 2 WRs, one on each side and lined up to more behind them, leaving the QB and one back in shotgun formation.  The back was primarily there to block for the QB. 

Most rinky dink high school defenses didn't how to defend it so we got a bit of value out of it.  Once they moved to defend wide, we got good yardage up the middle from the QB and blocking back.  We were a terrible team made a bit better by finding a way to get our very few real players open for yards.

want2be



             He sure let Bill Montgomery open it up in those days!
             

Calling All Hogs

The version of the spread that use to scare me the most was John Jenkins' run and shoot at Houston. 700 + yards of offense and crazy big scores. He called it "option through the air".

Root66

Quote from: WizardofhOgZ on January 09, 2013, 06:25:36 pm
Probably 80% of the folks who visit this board don't realize (and, in many cases, care) that Broyles was considered not only a leading coach of his generation, but an "innovator" and leader, sought out by his peers and the media for his reaction/input on the latest trends in the game.

In this brief 2008 article about the proliferation of spread offenses, a Broyles quote from 1968 is referenced as an example.  Just ran across it looking for something else and thought I'd post for those that might be interested.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/sioncampus/09/02/mythbusters.spread/

Biggus beat you to it...Wiz.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=245912.msg3616555#msg3616555

WizardofhOgZ


Ha Ha Ha . . . not surprised, Root.  Guess I needed to scroll back a "few more pages" before posting, eh?

Really, whether (or not) someone else had posted it 4.3 years ago is beside the point.  Now, if he had done so in the last few days, that would be a different matter.

But thanks for pointing it out.

;)


Quote from: Root66 on January 09, 2013, 07:38:02 pm
Biggus beat you to it...Wiz.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=245912.msg3616555#msg3616555

DeltaBoy

No problem WOH. I laugh when Frank showed no faith in the Spread when Hootie was here.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Since 1894

Cant wait to see how much spread our new staff will use.
The first thing I heard today was that he grew up on a pig farm. That's quite a start in my book. And my last memory was watching him hang 70 on Nebraska. Just those two facts are enough (for me to like him). Then, I hear that he's out of the Hayden Fry-Bill Snyder-Barry Alvarez coaching tree. Oh, that's enough for me to like a lot. Then, I hear he's got a 27-year-old wife. Okay, we can stop. I like him.

BARRY SWITZER- Former Arkansas Asst. Coach
Quote given to Clay Henry

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Rzbakfromwaybak

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 09:18:15 pm
No problem WOH. I laugh when Frank showed no faith in the Spread when Hootie was here


The biggest thing Hootie spread.......was a lot of manure....
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.

JIHawg

Watch some of those games in the late 60's with Montgomery at the helm.  Then Frank went out and recruited Joe Ferguson. 

Frank was passing back when nobody else was much.

HG

Is it wrong that my favorite part of that was the jab at Georgia?  :)

 

kaiserhog

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 07:17:01 pm
TCU  Coach Dutch Meyer wrote the book Spread formation football in the 1950' s
Great find Delta.  The concept has been around a long time.  I will say in the late 60's Frank Broyles was ahead of his time. We ran a balanced attack but our passing attack was considered high octane at the time.  I believe Don Breaux, of Washington Redskin fame, was our OC.  I wish Frank would not have abandoned it.  It gave us a separate identity, instead he wound up trying to imitate Darrell Royal's success in the wishbone. 

HG

Quote from: kaiserhog on January 09, 2013, 10:18:32 pm
Great find Delta.  The concept has been around a long time.  I will say in the late 60's Frank Broyles was ahead of his time. We ran a balanced attack but our passing attack was considered high octane at the time.  I believe Don Breaux, of Washington Redskin fame, was our OC.  I wish Frank would not have abandoned it.  It gave us a separate identity, instead he wound up trying to imitate Darrell Royal's success in the wishbone.

It made sense at the time.  Coaches like Bryant and Switzer were conquering the world with it in the early to mid 70's, and CFB had very similar talent and physiques available to him.  He imitated Royal for the same reason the others did.

But I agree with you.  I'd never really thought about it like that before.  It's a good point.

Root66

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 09:18:15 pm
No problem WOH. I laugh when Frank showed no faith in the Spread when Hootie was here.

Yeah Delta, that was strange...since Nutt developed so many top passing QBs in his time on the hill.  ;)

Root66

Quote from: JIHawg on January 09, 2013, 10:01:23 pm
Watch some of those games in the late 60's with Montgomery at the helm.  Then Frank went out and recruited Joe Ferguson. 

Frank was passing back when nobody else was much.

But NEVER out of a spread offense.

rzrbackrob

Quote from: WizardofhOgZ on January 09, 2013, 06:25:36 pm
Probably 80% of the folks who visit this board don't realize (and, in many cases, care) that Broyles was considered not only a leading coach of his generation, but an "innovator" and leader, sought out by his peers and the media for his reaction/input on the latest trends in the game.

In this brief 2008 article about the proliferation of spread offenses, a Broyles quote from 1968 is referenced as an example.  Just ran across it looking for something else and thought I'd post for those that might be interested.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/sioncampus/09/02/mythbusters.spread/

Great find
Good is the enemy of great

dchoss

if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

kaiserhog

Coach Broyles won his final SWC Championship when switched from the wishbone to the veer.  The veer was a triple option offense that the wishbone was somewhat derived from, but it allowed for more versatility in the passing game. In fact, Lou Holtz was hired because he was considered a veer guru at the time.  Of course, Bill Yeoman is the coach who brought us the veer at the University of Houston.



kaiserhog


WizardofhOgZ

Quote from: kaiserhog on January 09, 2013, 10:18:32 pm
Great find Delta.  The concept has been around a long time.  I will say in the late 60's Frank Broyles was ahead of his time. We ran a balanced attack but our passing attack was considered high octane at the time.  I believe Don Breaux, of Washington Redskin fame, was our OC.  I wish Frank would not have abandoned it.  It gave us a separate identity, instead he wound up trying to imitate Darrell Royal's success in the wishbone.

Sounds eerily like what we may be in the middle of now - pending a review of the actual offense we see on the field over the next couple of years from Bielema.  But there is no question that, under Petrino, our brand had become that of THE premiere passing/pro offense in the SEC (NON-spread). 

It remains to be seen if we ultimately emulate CBB's Wisconsin offenses and try to bludgeon SEC defenses as the Badgers have been doing to the Big 10 for many years.  I have expressed concern in prior posts about our ability to reside in the top 3-4 of the conference on a regular basis if we're trying to "out Alabama" Alabama.  In other words, can we beat Bama, Georgia, LSU, and Florida at their own game?  One that they've been playing successfully for many decades? 

Will the quality of recruits we need to play that type of ball choose us over those established programs, or would we be better off trying to attract the premier skill players on the premise of preparing them for a true pro-style offense?  As a prior poster points out, we never really did beat Texas when we tried to copy their style (well . . . very rarely).  Most often, we needed a good passing attack to beat them.

I'm all in with CBB.  I have no choice; I'm a Hog fan and he's the main man.  I want him to succeed.  But this question is the one that causes me the most concern.

dchoss

yep, my bad, good catch kaiserhog, i meant "mouse"  i wuz just wondering who he is/wuz, where/when did he coach.  ???
if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

dchoss

if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

 

kaiserhog

Quote from: WizardofhOgZ on January 10, 2013, 12:17:24 am
Sounds eerily like what we may be in the middle of now - pending a review of the actual offense we see on the field over the next couple of years from Bielema.  But there is no question that, under Petrino, our brand had become that of THE premiere passing/pro offense in the SEC (NON-spread). 

It remains to be seen if we ultimately emulate CBB's Wisconsin offenses and try to bludgeon SEC defenses as the Badgers have been doing to the Big 10 for many years.  I have expressed concern in prior posts about our ability to reside in the top 3-4 of the conference on a regular basis if we're trying to "out Alabama" Alabama.  In other words, can we beat Bama, Georgia, LSU, and Florida at their own game?  One that they've been playing successfully for many decades? 

Will the quality of recruits we need to play that type of ball choose us over those established programs, or would we be better off trying to attract the premier skill players on the premise of preparing them for a true pro-style offense?  As a prior poster points out, we never really did beat Texas when we tried to copy their style (well . . . very rarely).  Most often, we needed a good passing attack to beat them.

I'm all in with CBB.  I have no choice; I'm a Hog fan and he's the main man.  I want him to succeed.  But this question is the one that causes me the most concern.
The thing is Petrino utilized the fullback and tight end.  He wanted to run the ball, but with more emphasis on the pass.   We saw a glimpse of that in the second part of 2010.

Jim Chaney was a spread guru at Purdue when he had Drew Brees.  Lately, he has turned to more pro style, but with heavy emphasis on passing (see Tyler Bray).  This doesn't sound like the offense Wisconsin runs.  Hayden Fry was certainly more pass oriented at Iowa than Wisconsin under Alvarez and Bielema.  It would appear that CBB wants to go back to his roots and establish his own identity.

DeltaBoy

I got a copy of Dutch' s Spread Formation Football bought 10 years ago at a used book store. The only other copy I have seen is in the SWC museum in Waco TX.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

dchoss

Delta -  I wonder how much info Gus M. used from Dutch's book to write his book.
if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

board

Guz Malazahn invented the spread offense. He invented offense period.

Actually he invented the game of football. Hell, he invented footballs. Sewed them together with needle and thread and aired em up with his mouth......

Michael D Huff AIA

Quote from: board on January 10, 2013, 08:38:27 am
Guz Malazahn invented the spread offense. He invented offense period.

Actually he invented the game of football. Hell, he invented footballs. Sewed them together with needle and thread and aired em up with his mouth......

this is funny...

texas tush hog

Quote from: want2be on January 09, 2013, 07:29:53 pm

             He sure let Bill Montgomery open it up in those days!
             


Don Breaux, probably the best offensive mind I have ever encountered, installed a version of the pro style offense that he and Bill Peterson ran at Florida State and instituted the spread option for the 1968 season which sort of revolutionized offensive football in college at that time. Montgomery was perfect for it. Unfortunately Darrell Royal and Emory Bellard, that same year introduced a full house triple option Y formation that ran up 4 to 6 hundred rushing yards a game and later became known as the wishbone.

Jek Tono Porkins

Broyles knew the value of a good passing game. After all, he held the Orange Bowl record for passing yards with 304 until Tom Brady broke it 55 years later.
I have known the troubles I was born to know
I have wanted things a poor man's born to want
And in all my dreams and memories I go running
Through the fields of Arkansas from which I sprung

WizardofhOgZ


DeltaBoy

Quote from: dchoss on January 10, 2013, 08:29:34 am
Delta -  I wonder how much info Gus M. used from Dutch's book to write his book.

Gus 's book is more about Hurry Up no Huddle and get more snaps in vs the formation. When he was at Hughes HS he was running a single wing and using the first HUNH idea.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

thirrdegreetusker

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 09:18:15 pm
No problem WOH. I laugh when Frank showed no faith in the Spread when Hootie was here.

Oh, JFB might have had faith in the Spread....just no faith in Hootie......

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: board on January 10, 2013, 08:38:27 am
Guz Malazahn invented the spread offense. He invented offense period.

Actually he invented the game of football. Hell, he invented footballs. Sewed them together with needle and thread and aired em up with his mouth......

I would have said he invented the internet but we all know that was Al Gore............ :-\
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Root66

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 07:17:01 pm
TCU  Coach Dutch Meyer wrote the book Spread formation football in the 1950' s

Here's a great site to explain the MANY offenses/defenses of the college game and the history thereof. Thanks to Delta's post above, I googled up Dutch Meyer's Spread formation and found the following site...

by the way Amazon.com has four copies of Coach Meyer's book for sale at $199.00 and up if interested. ;)

X&O LABS

PORKULATOR

The Veer was best used by Bobby Bowden at West Virgina it here where several spread options out of it. However, I've never referenced any of his QBs #'s.
Everytime I reach a goal or achieve something new in life, someone's beat me there and wrote f♡€% you all over it - JD Salinger
I've got a fever and the only perscription...  is more cowbell.- THE Bruce Dickenson.

texas tush hog

Quote from: PORKULATOR on January 10, 2013, 01:19:19 pm
The Veer was best used by Bobby Bowden at West Virgina it here where several spread options out of it. However, I've never referenced any of his QBs #'s.

I would give more credit to Bill Yeoman of Houston's Cougars, he developed the veer offense in 1964 before Bowden even went to West Virginia in 1966. Houston was running up insane rushing numbers when Bowden was still at Florida State as a wide receivers coach under Bill Peterson. Don Breaux was the offensive co-ordinator at Fla State and ran the pro style offense at FSU when Bowden was there

Root66

Quote from: texas tush hog on January 10, 2013, 02:26:48 pm
I would give more credit to Bill Yeoman of Houston's Cougars, he developed the veer offense in 1964 before Bowden even went to West Virginia in 1966. Houston was running up insane rushing numbers when Bowden was still at Florida State as a wide receivers coach under Bill Peterson. Don Breaux was the offensive co-ordinator at Fla State and ran the pro style offense at FSU when Bowden was there

I'll second that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_up_the_score

On November 23, 1968, the University of Houston defeated the University of Tulsa 100-6. Though they had a 24-0 advantage at half, the Cougars scored 11 touchdowns in the second half for an astounding 94-point blowout.

WizardofhOgZ

Quote from: Root66 on January 10, 2013, 04:54:00 pm
I'll second that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_up_the_score

On November 23, 1968, the University of Houston defeated the University of Tulsa 100-6. Though they had a 24-0 advantage at half, the Cougars scored 11 touchdowns in the second half for an astounding 94-point blowout.

I remember that game.  I was actually in Lubbock that day watching my 2nd Arkansas-Tech game there in person (and it turned out much better than the 1966 game, in which Tech beat the Hogs for the first time ever). 

The next morning, as we were headed home, I grabbed a copy of the Avalanch-Journal to read all of the stories about our game and to see what else had gone on in the world of college football that day (unlike today, there wasn't wall-to-wall football on Saturday, nor Sports Center type shows recapping all of the games whenever you wanted to watch).  I was shocked to see the UH-Tulsa score.

When I think of UH and the Veer, I also remember their outstanding running back, Warren McVea - who had Jerry Levias type quickness and came on the scene a year earlier than levias (1965).  In 1968, Houston played Texas early - before the Longhorns had worked the kinks out of their new-fangled wishbone (and were still using "Super Bill" Bradley at QB instead of a kid named Street) - and stunned them by forcing the Horns to score a late TD to earn a 20-20 tie.  In fact, Texas opened a very unremarkable 1-1-1 in their first 3 games that year before tearing off the next 30 in a row (including us, 3 times).

Iwastherein1969

Quote from: want2be on January 09, 2013, 07:29:53 pm

             He sure let Bill Montgomery open it up in those days!
           
one time too many....with the foot of Bill McClard, we didn't need a TD at the end of the BIG SHOOTOUT, a FG would have won us the NC, instead we throw a pick in the endzone...I'll bet that's the one call that haunts JFB to this day....I know it haunts me and I was 7 when I witnessed it
The long Grey line will never fail our country.

Root66

Quote from: WizardofhOgZ on January 10, 2013, 06:59:37 pm
I remember that game.  I was actually in Lubbock that day watching my 2nd Arkansas-Tech game there in person (and it turned out much better than the 1966 game, in which Tech beat the Hogs for the first time ever). 

The next morning, as we were headed home, I grabbed a copy of the Avalanch-Journal to read all of the stories about our game and to see what else had gone on in the world of college football that day (unlike today, there wasn't wall-to-wall football on Saturday, nor Sports Center type shows recapping all of the games whenever you wanted to watch).  I was shocked to see the UH-Tulsa score.

When I think of UH and the Veer, I also remember their outstanding running back, Warren McVea - who had Jerry Levias type quickness and came on the scene a year earlier than levias (1965).  In 1968, Houston played Texas early - before the Longhorns had worked the kinks out of their new-fangled wishbone (and were still using "Super Bill" Bradley at QB instead of a kid named Street) - and stunned them by forcing the Horns to score a late TD to earn a 20-20 tie.  In fact, Texas opened a very unremarkable 1-1-1 in their first 3 games that year before tearing off the next 30 in a row (including us, 3 times).

That season start of 1-1-1 is when Super Bill Bradley was benched and ultimately moved to defense. Bill had really small hands for a QB which not only affected his passing ability but made him fumble prone.

Warren McVey S.A. Brackenridge and Linus Baer S.A. Robert E. Lee High Schools played the best game I ever remember reading about in the 1963 Texas AAAA state championship game. I remember reading about this game in an issue of Dave Campbell's Texas Football in 1964...I looked for that article but couldn't find it. That game must have been unreal. Lee won it 55-48. Baer went to Texas and McVey to Houston. McVey had, by far, the greatest future success of the two. Thought you might like this link Wiz. It's all I could find on this game on the net.

http://blog.chron.com/lopezblog/2007/08/the-greatest-high-school-football-game-ever/


dchoss

MOUSE DAVIS  hEAD coach at Portland State 1975  -  1980  .  according 2 the SI article,  OP by  Wiz of Hog.  Mouse
Davis  is the original creator of today's  spread offence's.  just saying.  another plus 1 delta for info about the books. 





w
if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

WizardofhOgZ


Yeah, I knew about Bradley being sent to the secondary (where he ultimately spent many years playing for $$$ in the NFL for the Eagles); that's why I referenced the fact that Street had not yet supplanted him at QB. In retrospect, I wish old DKR (or Bellard) hadn't made that switch until the week AFTER our game with them.

As for the HS game, thanks for the link.  Ironically, before I read the article your description of "the best HS game ever" reminded me of two games so I set off to use "Mr. Google" to find some links.  One of the games was the Plano East - Tyler John Tyler game.  I say "ironically" since there is actually a link to the video highlights of that game in the link you provided.  I'm going to post the link here for anyone who may be cruising through and might not have seen it.  It is truly remarkable - almost as much for the late call as the play itself!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg&feature=player_embedded

The other game that came to mind was the 1977 game between Plano HS - led by our own Billy Ray Smith - and Highland Park, who was QB'd by Lance McIlhenny, who later starred as SMU.  I listened to that one on the radio.  HP was up 28-0 as the game went into the 4th quarter, but Plano rallied to win 29-28.

Here is a blurb about that game (note that it also includes information about the other two games discussed in these posts): http://txprepsfootball.com/archives/eight-memorable-playoff-games


Quote from: Root66 on January 10, 2013, 08:11:57 pm
That season start of 1-1-1 is when Super Bill Bradley was benched and ultimately moved to defense. Bill had really small hands for a QB which not only affected his passing ability but made him fumble prone.

Warren McVey S.A. Brackenridge and Linus Baer S.A. Robert E. Lee High Schools played the best game I ever remember reading about in the 1963 Texas AAAA state championship game. I remember reading about this game in an issue of Dave Campbell's Texas Football in 1964...I looked for that article but couldn't find it. That game must have been unreal. Lee won it 55-48. Baer went to Texas and McVey to Houston. McVey had, by far, the greatest future success of the two. Thought you might like this link Wiz. It's all I could find on this game on the net.

http://blog.chron.com/lopezblog/2007/08/the-greatest-high-school-football-game-ever/

dchoss

Quote from: ReddieHawg on January 10, 2013, 10:20:06 am
Broyles knew the value of a good passing game. After all, he held the Orange Bowl record for passing yards with 304 until Tom Brady broke it 55 years later.
please refresh my memory reddieHawg, about franks orange bowl passing record, was it when he wuz SEC player of year at
GT of when he was  AD at  the You of 
A when the HOGS beat OU or what u talking about.  ???
if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

dchoss

duh,  my bad ReddieHawg,  i finally done the math after i posted,  Coach Broyles Orange bowl record gotta  b   when  he wuz playing  4  G....  Tech ,,  early 1940's
if you don't stand behind our troops by all means 'feel free' to stand in front of them

MC_Hog

Quote from: DeltaBoy on January 09, 2013, 07:17:01 pm
TCU  Coach Dutch Meyer wrote the book Spread formation football in the 1950' s


What Gus Malzahn didn't invent the spread.......lmao

DeltaBoy

Quote from: MC_Hog on January 12, 2013, 09:09:27 pm

What Gus Malzahn didn't invent the spread.......lmao

Nope he just inventing the hurry up no huddle concept.

Got Dutch's book on my work desk.
Spread Formation Football
Prentice Hall NY 1952
First Edition
By LR Dutch Meyer
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.