Is redshirting a good idea?

[Hoginsavga]

With scholarship limitations of 85 total and, I think, an SEC limitation of 25 each year you can quickly lock yourself out of getting some prime players if you have a practice of redshirting too many players as freshmen. Fact in point we only have 15 available slots for this recruiting season due to redshirts and walk-ons. I am disregarding the recruiting this year because of the coaching change.

I know many HV posters advocate redshirting freshmen and this worked great when there were no limitations on scholarships. However, this system has not seemed to pan out under the theory of coaching up mediocre players and keeping them on scholarship for five years. There just aren't enough scholies to go around.

I rather take my chances with replenishing my team with more quality players each recruiting season than banking on too many redshirts. I know there are exceptions but I wonder if we have gone overboard with that philosophy in recent years. Your thoughts?

[hawgmasta]

Yep.

[Hogginintheville]

It really depends on the position.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Depends on the player.

Bad idea to RS NFL caliber players like Andrew Luck and Moreno only get 2 years from them

[Hoggish1]

It all depends on the quality of the athlete and the league he plays in.

[IronHog]

It works if you can get big, fast kids that need a year in the weight room.

Think Jeremy Sprinkle, Detrich Wise type players

[Bkhardicars]

I think a general rule is to red shirt linemen and skill players that are not ready to take the pounding of college ball.

[Knot2brite]

Offensive linemen, QB's, and project skills players are usually a must to redshirt

[Hogman2]

Offensive linemen are always prime candidates to redshirt!  QB's too! If they can help you NOW, then PLAY THEM!

[Hawghiggs]

 Red shirting is fine.  The problem is the grey shirting. Taking lesser talented players and coaching them up and giving them a scholarship next year sounds like a great idea. The problem is that they could very well be taking a more talented players spot.

[Hogwild]

Our new DC (Chavis) doesn't believe in redshirting defensive players

[texas tush hog]

Our new DC (Chavis) doesn't believe in redshirting defensive players

Great

[King Kong]

Our new DC (Chavis) doesn't believe in redshirting defensive players

He will after he sees this sorry bunch we have

On another note Chavis has RS some defensive players everywhere he has been

[Hogwild]

"We play a lot of people" defensive coordinator John Chavis said, "We don't recruit guys to redshirt. There is no point in redshirting.  If you've recruited the right kind of people they're not going to be here for four years anyway."

[Hogarusa]

I wish you could redshirt every player and give them a year of learning the system, the process, college life, academics, and life away from home. Seems like it would be beneficial for all but understand no school will really do such and many players would sign elsewhere if they were told during the recruiting process that they would not see the field in year 1.

[Snouty]

I wish you could redshirt every player and give them a year of learning the system, the process, college life, academics, and life away from home. Seems like it would be beneficial for all but understand no school will really do such and many players would sign elsewhere if they were told during the recruiting process that they would not see the field in year 1.

Well, there was a time a generation ago when freshmen were not allowed to play major college varsity football.  It seems like a good idea, but then someone like Jalen Hurts comes along who plays like gangbusters right from the first game.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

Redshirting is extremely important and one of the main ways a team can bridge the talent gap. In the case of dead weight upper classmen they need to be encouraged to transfer to the UCAs of the world to make room

[jkstock04]

Redshirting is extremely important and one of the main ways a team can bridge the talent gap. In the case of dead weight upper classmen they need to be encouraged to transfer to the UCAs of the world to make room

We are about to find out this year if Bielemas formula really works. "Bridging the talent gap" with 2/3* players was a major selling point during the Bielema tenure. Through his redshirt and walk on program...his "finalized built" teams would be comprised mostly of upper classmen...where we would no longer have to rebuild but only have to reload due to these guys being in the program so long and the recycling of players would only be senior laden.

It goes along with what the OP said...is this a good philosophy for us? As evidenced by us only being able to take a small amount of recruits in this recruiting class it's obvious Bielemas master plan has "worked." Very low retention and overall excellent use of the redshirt program. We will see if this bodes success. Everyone seems split on how much and what kind of talent this team has.

If Morris wins 8-10 games this next year "some" of the credit should be thrown Bielemas way for having the talent on campus to accomplish this.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

It works if you can get big, fast kids that need a year in the weight room.

Think Jeremy Sprinkle, Detrich Wise type players

[/thread]

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

We are about to find out this year if Bielemas formula really works. "Bridging the talent gap" with 2/3* players was a major selling point during the Bielema tenure. Through his redshirt and walk on program...his "finalized built" teams would be comprised mostly of upper classmen...where we would no longer have to rebuild but only have to reload due to these guys being in the program so long and the recycling of players would only be senior laden.

It goes along with what the OP said...is this a good philosophy for us? As evidenced by us only being able to take a small amount of recruits in this recruiting class it's obvious Bielemas master plan has "worked." Very low retention and overall excellent use of the redshirt program. We will see if this bodes success. Everyone seems split on how much and what kind of talent this team has.

If Morris wins 8-10 games this next year "some" of the credit should be thrown Bielemas way for having the talent on campus to accomplish this.

If CCM does it with primarily upper classmen, then YES! Absolutely CBB needs credit for the retention, but he also need an ass whipping for his coaching decisions.

[redeye]

It's an absolute vital part of a program like Arkansas and an asset that was misused by the previous staff.

How so?   

[King Kong]

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2017/07/27/am-coordinators-offers-insight-team-project-fall-starters-local-charity-event

And he still Redshirts

[MuskogeeHogFan]

With scholarship limitations of 85 total and, I think, an SEC limitation of 25 each year you can quickly lock yourself out of getting some prime players if you have a practice of redshirting too many players as freshmen. Fact in point we only have 15 available slots for this recruiting season due to redshirts and walk-ons. I am disregarding the recruiting this year because of the coaching change.

I know many HV posters advocate redshirting freshmen and this worked great when there were no limitations on scholarships. However, this system has not seemed to pan out under the theory of coaching up mediocre players and keeping them on scholarship for five years. There just aren't enough scholies to go around.

I rather take my chances with replenishing my team with more quality players each recruiting season than banking on too many redshirts. I know there are exceptions but I wonder if we have gone overboard with that philosophy in recent years. Your thoughts?

I think that usually players referred as playing the "skill" positions can sometimes play earlier than linemen/TE's/some LB's and perhaps some Safeties.

Just as a singular example though, suppose you had a HS WR targeted for signing because he was 6-4, 185 lbs, had lightning quickness and speed, ran great routes and caught everything that was thrown within his reach, tried to block downfield at times but was somewhat ineffective, but otherwise looked to be a "can't miss" and looked like he had NFL potential? But just for the purpose of this example let's say that though this kid had 850 receiving yards in his Senior year, he did that in just 9 games because every few games he couldn't play because he kept getting injured from the hits that he was taking after the catch or in trying to block. Would this be a kid that you would R/S? I would, he needs a season to fill out or at least build his body up to be able to take the higher degree of game-in, game-out physical punishment that he will receive at the P-5 level.

There are always case-by-case exceptions at any position that may dictate whether a kid should be Redshirted or not.

As a general rule of thumb, if I had sufficient talented depth in place already, I would R/S every down lineman on both sides of the ball that I could, most QB's, some LB's and some Safeties. But as you point out, there are always exceptions.

[Bacons Rebellion]

If you have been recruiting well, and not losing players to attrition, there's no reason NOT to redshirt. If you have 40 scholarship defensive players, 42 scholarship offensive players, say 2 kickers and a snapper, those last few guys aren't doing anything important on Saturdays anyway and there's not enough trash time for their plays to matter.

The only reason to play them is to use up their eligibility and move them along. But with the grad transfer rule now, you can "move them along" anyway after their sophomore season (in eligibility), without even sending them to FCS.

That said, if your freshmen are better than the upper classmen, they should play. A college career is too uncertain to bank on their future (grades, DUIs, team rules, transfers, NFL, etc.).

[JONAS]

Yes.  I wish we would red shirt every Freshman.

[oldhawg]

I would like to see across the board for everyone:

1. Five years of eligibility for all college athletes, and no red shirt program of any kind (including medical).
2. Suitable progress towards a degree (12 hours a semester of undergraduates, nine hours a semester for graduate students).
3. Twenty scholarships a year firm (no counting forward, counting backward, losses due to injury or graduation or any other reason).  The sum total of football scholarships at any given time would always be less than 100 due to attrition due to one reason or another.   

[texas tush hog]

We are about to find out this year if Bielemas formula really works. "Bridging the talent gap" with 2/3* players was a major selling point during the Bielema tenure. Through his redshirt and walk on program...his "finalized built" teams would be comprised mostly of upper classmen...where we would no longer have to rebuild but only have to reload due to these guys being in the program so long and the recycling of players would only be senior laden.

If Morris wins 8-10 games this next year "some" of the credit should be thrown Bielemas way for having the talent on campus to accomplish this.

I hate to say it, but I actually agree with that statement. Shrek could recruit good talent, just did not know how to coach it.

[lamont7906]

As far as redshirtting goes I believe first year coaches should redshirt the majority of their first two recruiting classes.  Gives new coaches time to load up their team with  guys to run thier system. First two seasons you pretty safe regardless. After that they should redshirt accordingly to man positions that requires good foundation and depth to be successful.
For me it's mainly QB depending on complication of plays and depth you already have, linemen, linebacker. Specialty positions like receiver, RB, it's easier to play as freshman. CB I believe it's a position that's trail by fire but work them in slowly, games you already know the outcome but playing time left. Especially when you up big on rent a win and they tossing the rock trying to score. DB's need to see themselves on film redshirtting don't give them that. Unless it's a position change for the DB.

[Hoginsavga]

Some good responses in this thread have actually caused me to change my thinking somewhat. Maybe our failures in recent seasons had soured me on redshirting especially with the limitations on recruiting slots available this year.

Perhaps if you redshirt the right players that have potential, especially on the lines, then it pays off. I would also think it's a little easier to focus on finding 15 to 20 quality players each year rather than 25. Our dismal o-line play the last two years coupled with a freshman starting totally blew my mind when we were supposed to have a redshirt program in place.

It will be interesting to follow CCM's philosophy in this area.

[Piggfoot]

I don't understand the numbers in recruiting and all of the shirting. Since 2012 Alabama has averaged 25 enrollees per year. With a high of 28 and a low of 23.
In 2018 they have signednm 14 with 4 commits.
Arkansas during the same time period has signed an average of  26.3 per year with a high of 36 and a low of 22.  In 2018 we've signed maybe 11.
Red shirting every class limits our signing to 17 per year.
I believe the combination of red shirting and guaranteeing four years to players only makes the more popular elite feams more powerful, never allowing the lower and middle tier teams to possibly equalize.
It stands to reason the elites will always commit the better athletes no matter the rating. These players presumably are already ready to play. Less popular teams having to recruit more players in need of development are at a severe disadvantage especially if these players do not develop and they can not be coerced to play elsewhere. Getting them to agree to transfer or perhaps screw up and become ineligible is now the only excepted way to replace them.