Is anyone else starting to be concerned about our OL?

[hogninja]

Way too early to freak out. I have faith in this coaching staff to put a serviceable ol together by the end of fall camp. :razorback:

[Theolesnort]

Concerned? Well considering the material that in several spots has never done much yet, yeah that might be concerning but then again, concerning the abilities of these new guys I would consider it more of an opportunity to build a special oline, but then I am a optimist at heart. So I know which way I am leaning.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

It's too bad we're having to deal with Kirkland leaving.
For starters, he wasn't ready for the NFL based off the reports I've seen, coupled with the underwhelming workouts.

He could have really benefited from another year with a lot of special attention and tutelage.

[lumphog]

Concerned? Well considering the material that in several spots has never done much yet, yeah that might be concerning but then again, concerning the abilities of these new guys I would consider it more of an opportunity to build a special oline, but then I am a optimist at heart. So I know which way I am leaning.

I'm with ya......Let me say this NOW.....The Razorbacks WILL have the BEST OL & DL in the SEC "THIS YEAR". I think Coach Anderson is going to blow us away

[bphi11ips]

Not really.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Nope....it's Spring practice. Come end of September, maybe. Don't panic until it is time to panic.

[ricepig]

Nope....it's Spring practice. Come end of September, maybe. Don't panic until it is time to panic.

I don't know,  several will have long fingernails if they can't gnaw on them all summer.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

I don't know,  several will have long fingernails if they can't gnaw on them all summer.

Ha! True. You making the trip over this weekend?

[ricepig]

Ha! True. You making the trip over this weekend?

Nah, I was up last weekend for the Florida series, there's enough back to back weekends this fall.

[Hoggish1]

I used to be...

[TheRazorback500]

No concern. Bielema and Anderson have got this. We'll be ok.

:razorback:

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

Ever since Kirkland declared it's been perceived as the potential weakness. There were a lot of predictions next year for the Hogs to win 7-8 games. Having Kirkland as a likely all sec lineman returning at LT with Ragnow and Skipper would give us 2 returning tackles and a center.  That would probably be the difference in 1-2 games. Defense should be greatly improved.  We have a great receiving core.  AA has played pretty decently by most accounts.  We have a lot of talent at RB.  Much of it is unproven, but it doesn't take talented RBs as long to transition to major college ball as it does O lineman. No point in losing sleep over it now.  Hopefully I'll be wrong and we will win 10 games next year, but with our O line situation I think 7-8 wins is more realistic.

[root_hawg]

yes

[BigSexyHog]

I love all the coaches on here.  Hard to believe they have time to post when there is so much work to get done.

[Pork Twain]

No, I don't think that has to be the case at all. We have 2 guys back with any starts at all. The same two guys are the only ones with real experience. Gibson, Wallace and Rogers only have 3 games experience registered each and who knows how many plays that actually involved? Jake Hall had 1 game but he has since been moved to TE.

Alabama only returns 3 guys with double digit starts but they have 8 guys in their two deep that average 14 games each.

Auburn returns 3 guys with double digit starts and 8 guys in their two deep that average almost 17 games each.

Just an example or two.

Are we only comparing ourselves to teams that have won a NC in the last few years?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Are we only comparing ourselves to teams that have won a NC in the last few years?

Are we only comparing ourselves to teams that have won a NC in the last few years?

No, that wasn't the criteria. I'm just going through the SEC West teams alphabetically to determine career starts and career games by position. All I have had time to do is Alabama, Arkansas and Auburn so far. And I'll grant you that Alabama has won at high levels, but Auburn is tied for 59th in the most wins since 2012 (30-22). In any case, that has nothing to do with building depth and getting players some experience.

[FATHAWG08]

Curious yes, concerned not at  all. The Coaches will figure it out.

[Kevin]

only unit on offense not concerned with is wr.

[Pork Twain]

No, that wasn't the criteria. I'm just going through the SEC West teams alphabetically to determine career starts and career games by position. All I have had time to do is Alabama, Arkansas and Auburn so far. And I'll grant you that Alabama has won at high levels, but Auburn is tied for 59th in the most wins since 2012 (30-22). In any case, that has nothing to do with building depth and getting players some experience.

Just giving you a hard time...  I think the new class we are recruiting right now shows the different approach CBB and Anderson are taking vs CBB and Pittman.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Just giving you a hard time...  I think the new class we are recruiting right now shows the different approach CBB and Anderson are taking vs CBB and Pittman.

My hope is that they are doing an excellent job of identifying talent ahead of the competition and landing some kids who fit the profile that they have stated that they wanted in the past. If these kids are of the variety that they will require a couple of years of development before they are ready to compete for a starting position, while these earlier commits are a good start, we aren't out of the woods yet. But still, it may be a move in the right direction.

[JayBell]

Agreed.  Play action, bootleg, waggles, and screens may be the norm early on as the young left side learns.  If we're going to have a year with growing pains on the line, we have the WR/TE group to help deal with it.

That's a great point.  This definitely has not always been the case for Arkansas.

Arkansas has often needed a bullish line because the passing game hasn't always been there.  With the current crop and system, defenses have to respect the passing game, especially playaction.  It means less pressure for the line because defenses can't load up the box like they have before.

Well, they can, but then you'll just see Enos and Allen pick them apart.

[JayBell]

It's too bad we're having to deal with Kirkland leaving.
For starters, he wasn't ready for the NFL based off the reports I've seen, coupled with the underwhelming workouts.

He could have really benefited from another year with a lot of special attention and tutelage.

Kirkland is going to get drafted as an underclassmen who was playing out of position in college.  Another year at tackle was not going to make him more ready to play guard in the NFL.  He was way more ready for the NFL than Philon.

We all knew, or at least I thought we all knew, by the middle of last season that Kirkland would be gone.  I think he made the right decision.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Kirkland is going to get drafted as an underclassmen who was playing out of position in college.  Another year at tackle was not going to make him more ready to play guard in the NFL.  He was way more ready for the NFL than Philon.

I'm pretty sure CBB has said that DK was moving back inside if he returned this year.

[NaturalStateReb]

What constitutes adequate depth at the OL-two as least serviceable candidates at each position, or three?

I think we can get to two, but not three.  The other question-can we get to a dominate first five?  Juries still out, but I'm leaning that we can.  I just trust these coaches.  We have all summer for the players to process what they have been given in the spring, and then all of August to get battle ready and hone what they have learned.

I'm still optimistic.

Bielema's teams tend not to show that they're battle ready until October.  They're going to need a fast start this year more than ever.

[Bacon_Bitz]

Kirkland is going to get drafted as an underclassmen who was playing out of position in college.  Another year at tackle was not going to make him more ready to play guard in the NFL.  He was way more ready for the NFL than Philon.

We all knew, or at least I thought we all knew, by the middle of last season that Kirkland would be gone.  I think he made the right decision.

Except he may not get drafted. I sure hope he does though.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Not at all. It's the QB's that should be afraid for their lives. 

[Wildhog]

The premature departure of Denver Kirkland hurt, for many reasons:

* Nothing is left from the 2012 recruiting class (Jeremy Ward, Cordale Boyd), which should have provided fifth-year seniors.
* Dan Skipper is the only one remaining from the 2013 class (also included Kirkland, Reeve Koehler, Jonathan McClure).
* After two inadequately sized groups, the 2014 class brought Frank Ragnow, Brian Wallace, Sebastian Tretola, Josh Allen, Jovan Pruitt. Only two remain.

This is the season where the insufficient recruiting hits hardest. But consider that the Hogs signed one freshman in the 2016 crop. Frank Ragnow could leave early for the pros, and next year's senior class then would consist of two jucos.

When I hear the coaches talk about moving Jake Hall -- recently shifted from DE to OT -- over to TE, I wonder WHAT THE HOLY FLYING Frank?

The offensive line might be a problem for multiple seasons.

Bump for common sense.  This has been obvious for a while now.  Glad folks are finally starting to come around.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Bielema's teams tend not to show that they're battle ready until October.  They're going to need a fast start this year more than ever.

Are you talking about his teams at Arkansas, or during his entire HC tenure?

Because breaking in new coordinators could explain the slow starts the past two years.

IMO it's going to be a very interesting thing to watch for this fall, considering this is CBB's first year here with the coordinators on both sides of the ball.

[ricepig]

Are you talking about his teams at Arkansas, or during his entire HC tenure?

Because breaking in new coordinators could explain the slow starts the past two years.

IMO it's going to be a very interesting thing to watch for this fall, considering this is CBB's first year here with the coordinators on both sides of the ball.

His team's at Wisconsin averaged 4.7 wins in their first 6 games over his tenure there. I assume his "always start slow" theory applies to his 3 years here.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Actually since our identity changed last year. I am more confused than scared. After reviewing closely our stats last year we were not a running team. I understand why the new identity as the previous year we had 2 1000 yard rushers so with 1 down some adjustments had to be made. Actually looks like we were much more balanced.Only 3 games did our Oline  seem to struggle.Toledo,Bama,Miss st.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Actually since our identity changed last year. I am more confused than scared. After reviewing closely our stats last year we were not a running team. I understand why the new identity as the previous year we had 2 1000 yard rushers so with 1 down some adjustments had to be made. Actually looks like we were much more balanced.Only 3 games did our Oline  seem to struggle.Toledo,Bama,Miss st.

We scored 50 points against MSU, and probably would have scored 57 if CBB wasn't so afraid we'd score too soon and MSU would come back and beat us. Hard to score that much, especially against a pretty salty SEC West defense, if your OL is struggling.  If anything we looked worse against Tech.

EFBAB

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We scored 50 points against MSU, and probably would have scored 57 if CBB wasn't so afraid we'd score too soon and MSU would come back and beat us. Hard to score that much, especially against a pretty salty SEC West defense, if your OL is struggling.  If anything we looked worse against Tech.

EFBAB

If the defense had made any appearance whatsoever in the Texas Tech game, we would have won. That may have been the worst game for the defense all season long. I'm not saying that we set the world on fire offensively because we didn't, but the defense was leaking like a sieve allowing Tech an average of 8.4 yards per play.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I'm pretty sure CBB has said that DK was moving back inside if he returned this year.

I read this somewhere as well.
I still say he probably would have benefited from another year.

I find it odd  how he left/announced as well.

It felt like a kid knowing he shouldn't do something but if they can get far enough away from Dad, they might pull it off without getting into trouble.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I read this somewhere as well.
I still say he probably would have benefited from another year.

I find it odd  how he left/announced as well.

It felt like a kid knowing he shouldn't do something but if they can get far enough away from Dad, they might pull it off without getting into trouble.

If I recall correctly, Bielema was going to visit with the kids from Florida and their families prior to a decision being made, and that happened with AC. Kirkland apparently made his decision before Bielema had a chance to meet with he and his family. I don't think (second guessing here because I don't know for certain) Bielema was going to recommend that Kirkland go early. 

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

If I recall correctly, Bielema was going to visit with the kids from Florida and their families prior to a decision being made, and that happened with AC. Kirkland apparently made his decision before Bielema had a chance to meet with he and his family. I don't think (second guessing here because I don't know for certain) Bielema was going to recommend that Kirkland go early. 

That's why I said it felt like DK was trying to pull a fast one.

I don't think he wanted that meeting because he was dead set on going pro at all costs.

He's a Hog.
He did really good for us.
I'm proud he came here, and I wish him tons of success.

I think he left too quickly and was afraid of having that meeting with BB.
For starters, he probably knew deep inside that another year would be best but for whatever reason(s), wanted to go pro more.

[farmhawg]

The premature departure of Denver Kirkland hurt, for many reasons:

* Nothing is left from the 2012 recruiting class (Jeremy Ward, Cordale Boyd), which should have provided fifth-year seniors.
* Dan Skipper is the only one remaining from the 2013 class (also included Kirkland, Reeve Koehler, Jonathan McClure).
* After two inadequately sized groups, the 2014 class brought Frank Ragnow, Brian Wallace, Sebastian Tretola, Josh Allen, Jovan Pruitt. Only two remain.

This is the season where the insufficient recruiting hits hardest. But consider that the Hogs signed one freshman in the 2016 crop. Frank Ragnow could leave early for the pros, and next year's senior class then would consist of two jucos.

When I hear the coaches talk about moving Jake Hall -- recently shifted from DE to OT -- over to TE, I wonder WHAT THE HOLY FLYING Frank?

The offensive line might be a problem for multiple seasons.

Seems like we have seen this before....

[HogMantheIntruder]

Are you talking about his teams at Arkansas, or during his entire HC tenure?

Because breaking in new coordinators could explain the slow starts the past two years.

IMO it's going to be a very interesting thing to watch for this fall, considering this is CBB's first year here with the coordinators on both sides of the ball.

Excellent point. I never thought of that. +1

[wikipedia brown]

The oline is definitely going to patchwork next season, however, there seems to be more athleticism vs size than past classes. Froholt could turn into an amazing pulling guard. We also have the most athletic center since Travis Swanson in ragnow/Wallace.

[whosiskid]

I'm concerned, but just think how much more we would all be concerned if Hjalte Froholt hadn't come in and locked down the LG slot. I think everyone knew he was a great athlete (he was initially listed as a TE/DE coming out of HS, but we decided early on to move him to DT). If we had uncertainty at LG in addition to questions of depth and other positions, we'd be a whole lot worse than we currently are.

There is one other player who could provide significant help in the fall: Jake Heinrich. We didn't recruit many offensive linemen in the 2015 class, but Heinrich is someone who could contribute immediately and might even end up starting before the season is over. I doubt that Heinrich will be redshirted. I expect that he'll get on campus and will be instantly evaluated for how ready he is to contribute. The word is that he is one of the more polished linemen we've had in a while. He could help pretty much immediately. Sadly, after him the freshman class cupboard is bare.

[LZH]

Not really.

This rat cheer. Big boy runs an offense that likes to pound the ball more than anyone else in college football. I am not too worried about

[Since 1894]

We should be concerned about the whole offense (at this point).  New QB, OL mostly untested, RBs hurt, newer TEs.  What could possibly go wrong?

[JayBell]

We should be concerned about the whole offense (at this point).  New QB, OL mostly untested, RBs hurt, newer TEs.  What could possibly go wrong?

A lot of people had the same mentality last year.

[Styflin]

Never mind

[JayBell]

I can understand some concern, but the level of pessimism is pretty crazy to me.  Someone commented that the line could have issues for years to come when Skipper and the Ragnow are the only real threats to leave after this season.  You're talking about a unit that will have one senior, two juniors and then a bunch of freshmen and sophomores.  That is built for the long haul.

At worst, I'd expect them to be like the defensive line last year, which was built in the same way.  They may be a bit underwhelming, considering expectations, but still pretty damn good compared to other teams.

[Theolesnort]

Styflin..... is there an echo in here? ..........................................................just kidding     

[PorkRinds]

I think part of it comes from the fact that the OL was so hyped last year.  Cover of the media guide and the whole works.  They were talked up as the strength of the team, and ended up not living up to the hype.   It's quite possible that the unit is not as worrisome as we think, we just aren't getting the same amount of hype because the coaches don't want the guys to think they deserve it.  They want them to EARN the hype before giving it to them.  That's not to say I'm ignoring the glaring depth issues Pittman left us with, because I'm not.  But they may be better than advertised because there just isn't much advertising going on.

[Hogdomer]

Are you talking about his teams at Arkansas, or during his entire HC tenure?

Because breaking in new coordinators could explain the slow starts the past two years.

IMO it's going to be a very interesting thing to watch for this fall, considering this is CBB's first year here with the coordinators on both sides of the ball.

We did not start slow in 2014.  We lost on the road at Auburn to open the year, but competed well until the fourth quarter.  We also buried the MAC champ and a good team in Northern Illinois before dominating a good Aggie team for 58 minutes.  Last year was a horrendous start but 2014 wasn't bad.

[bigdaddyhawg]

We did not start slow in 2014.  We lost on the road at Auburn to open the year, but competed well until the fourth quarter.  We also buried the MAC champ and a good team in Northern Illinois before dominating a good Aggie team for 58 minutes.  Last year was a horrendous start but 2014 wasn't bad.

Defense started slow that fall.  They were pretty mediocre until well into the season, and finished much differently.

Offense started slow in 2015.  I don't think it's a coincidence those units started slow with first time coordinators.

But we'll see this fall.

Like someone above pointed out, we really cannot afford either side to start slow this fall.

[Hogdomer]

Defense started slow that fall.  They were pretty mediocre until well into the season, and finished much differently.

Offense started slow in 2015.  I don't think it's a coincidence those units started slow with first time coordinators.

But we'll see this fall.

Like someone above pointed out, we really cannot afford either side to start slow this fall.

The defense was bad against Auburn in 2014, but really good against Northern Illinois and A&M.  We lost to A&M due to penalties (Jonathan Williams run to the 1 called back), a missed chip shot field goal (sounds familiar) and two fumbled snaps at crucial times.  Northern Illinois' offense was excellent that year and they won 11 games.  Our defense completely shut them down.

[bigdaddyhawg]

The defense was bad against Auburn in 2014, but really good against Northern Illinois and A&M.  We lost to A&M due to penalties (Jonathan Williams run to the 1 called back), a missed chip shot field goal (sounds familiar) and two fumbled snaps at crucial times.  Northern Illinois' offense was excellent that year and they won 11 games.  Our defense completely shut them down.

The last half of the last quarter of a game counts.

In that part of the game our D looked like dog poo and gave up a lead that should have won the game.

I'm pretty sure Thrill passed for more than 300 for the game.