Are there any good coaches in the SEC?

[Rome26]

And if so, who are they? This question is for those that think CMA is so bad. For the record, I don't think he's great, but I do think he's a solid coach.

[k.c.hawg]

I think there are a lot of good coaches in the SEC, just no great coaches. They have all ascended to P5 jobs.

[Hawg Red]

How many great coaches exist?

[Fan701]

And if so, who are they? This question is for those that think CMA is so bad. For the record, I don't think he's great, but I do think he's a solid coach.

CMA, Mike White, and Rick Barnes are the best of the coaches that play clean, I think. Calipari and Pearl are the best of the cheaters.

[steveaustin69]

Cal is a great coach.

Pearl is the easiest comparison to Anderson based on years coaching and program strength. Pearl has an identical D1 winning percentage to Mike and more post season success.

Rick Barnes has a comparable winning percentage and a lot of postseason success, albeit in a much longer time frame.

[Rome26]

Cal is a great coach.

Pearl is the easiest comparison to Anderson based on years coaching and program strength. Pearl has an identical D1 winning percentage to Mike and more post season success.

Rick Barnes has a comparable winning percentage and a lot of postseason success, albeit in a much longer time frame.

Do you consider Barnes and Pearl(who is a known cheater) to be good coaches?

[gmarv54]

CMA, Mike White, and Rick Barnes are the best of the coaches that play clean, I think. Calipari and Pearl are the best of the cheaters.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this kind of says it.What do you want in a coach someone who will really cheat with the best cheaters then Cal and Pearl is your guys.

[Fan701]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this kind of says it.What do you want in a coach someone who will really cheat with the best cheaters then Cal and Pearl is your guys.

Yeah, if you want SEC championships, then there's little doubt that Calipari and Pearl are the most likely to win them since they cheat.  On the other hand, of the clean coaches, White, Anderson, Barnes will probably be in the upper half of the standings most years, but will probably rarely have the talent to challenge the cheaters.

[steveaustin69]

Do you consider Barnes and Pearl(who is a known cheater) to be good coaches?

Good, not great.

Pearl lied about a cookout to the NCAA; the actual infraction was minor. Similar to Petrino if he wouldn't have lied to the wrong people very little would have happened.

To win a title you need a great coach. Aside from Kevin Ollie (and he won it with a HoF coach's players), nothing short of a great coach has won a title in recent memory.

Mike is a good not great coach.

[HogFaninMemphis]

Do you consider Barnes and Pearl(who is a known cheater) to be good coaches?

Oh Pearl is a phenomenal coach. We're not talking about integrity, we're talking about coaching ability. Pearl at Auburn probably is never going to get a long-term chance at success, because there's a decent chance they end up with sanctions. In the meantime, though, this season has been amazing for them. That roster is less talented than several teams in the SEC, including ours, but they're nationally ranked. That's all on Pearl.
I don't think Barnes is nearly as good a coach as Pearl. He had good recruits at Texas and struggled to win for a long time. I'd compare him similarly with Ben Howland at UCLA.
I also think Frank Martin is a very good coach. Problem that Martin has is that he can't recruit anyone to come to South Carolina. His tenure I think shows a lot about South Carolina's basketball program and how hard it is to recruit there.
Calipari is also a very good coach, along with being a great recruiter. He's willing to get his hands dirty, but most of the top coaches do. I do commend CMA for not getting his hands dirty. makes him easy to root for in times like these
Cuonzo Martin is a pretty solid coach, and I still don't know about Mike White, due to his riding Billy Donovan's coattails.

So I would say Pearl, Martin, and Calipari are really good coaches.

[Rome26]

Good, not great.

Pearl lied about a cookout to the NCAA; the actual infraction was minor. Similar to Petrino if he wouldn't have lied to the wrong people very little would have happened.

To win a title you need a great coach. Aside from Kevin Ollie (and he won it with a HoF coach's players), nothing short of a great coach has won a title in recent memory.

Mike is a good not great coach.

False, to win a title you need very good to great talent. Talent is always the biggest factor by far, not coaching.

[steveaustin69]

False, to win a title you need very good to great talent. Talent is always the biggest factor by far, not coaching.

And the great coaches get the best talent year in year out.

[Rome26]

And the great coaches get the best talent year in year out.

And some, if not most of them, cheat. So are they really all that great?

[99toLife]

And the great coaches get the best talent year in year out.

Not According to Hogville, you get the talent means CHEATING every time.. 

[Fan701]

Oh Pearl is a phenomenal coach. We're not talking about integrity, we're talking about coaching ability. Pearl at Auburn probably is never going to get a long-term chance at success, because there's a decent chance they end up with sanctions. In the meantime, though, this season has been amazing for them. That roster is less talented than several teams in the SEC, including ours, but they're nationally ranked. That's all on Pearl.
I don't think Barnes is nearly as good a coach as Pearl. He had good recruits at Texas and struggled to win for a long time. I'd compare him similarly with Ben Howland at UCLA.
I also think Frank Martin is a very good coach. Problem that Martin has is that he can't recruit anyone to come to South Carolina. His tenure I think shows a lot about South Carolina's basketball program and how hard it is to recruit there.
Calipari is also a very good coach, along with being a great recruiter. He's willing to get his hands dirty, but most of the top coaches do. I do commend CMA for not getting his hands dirty. makes him easy to root for in times like these
Cuonzo Martin is a pretty solid coach, and I still don't know about Mike White, due to his riding Billy Donovan's coattails.

So I would say Pearl, Martin, and Calipari are really good coaches.

In the cases of Pearl and Calipari, they are obviously very successful coaches, but it's pretty obvious they cheat.  How much of their success is from being good coaches, how much from the cheating?  I'd take issue with your saying that Auburn doesn't have a lot of talent this year.  Auburn has probably very rarely, maybe never, had as good a roster as this year, even without Wiley and Purifoy. Kentucky without cheating would look like Kentucky under Tubby Smith.  They would usually be very good, but they wouldn't be bringing in whole squads of five star recruits every year.  Final fours would be rarer, and the Kentucky fans would revolt, as they did under Tubby.  Frank Martin did have one really good tournament run, but I don't see how it's possible to mention him as being at the level of, say, Calipari.  Judging from the material released from the FBI probe, it appears Martin cheats, too, just not as well as Cal or Pearl.

[steveaustin69]

And some, if not most of them, cheat. So are they really all that great?

We'll see how the FBI saga plays out, but do you currently have some proof on other coaches besides Miller?

[steveaustin69]

In the cases of Pearl and Calipari, they are obviously very successful coaches, but it's pretty obvious they cheat.  How much of their success is from being good coaches, how much from the cheating?  I'd take issue with your saying that Auburn doesn't have a lot of talent this year.  Auburn has probably very rarely, maybe never, had as good a roster as this year, even without Wiley and Purifoy. Kentucky without cheating would look like Kentucky under Tubby Smith.  They would usually be very good, but they wouldn't be bringing in whole squads of five star recruits every year.  Final fours would be rarer, and the Kentucky fans would revolt, as they did under Tubby.  Frank Martin did have one really good tournament run, but I don't see how it's possible to mention him as being at the level of, say, Calipari.  Judging from the material released from the FBI probe, it appears Martin cheats, too, just not as well as Cal or Pearl.

So they'd still be one of the best teams in the nation most years?

Tubby won 76% of his games, and never missed a tournament. 3 Elite Eights, 2 Sweet Sixteens, and a Championship in ten years.

[Rome26]

Not According to Hogville, you get the talent means CHEATING every time.. 

Getting talent and coaching is two different things any way. Players make coaches, not the other way around.

[k.c.hawg]

We'll see how the FBI saga plays out, but do you currently have some proof on other coaches besides Miller?

Throw in Rick Pitino and it proves to be more than an isolated event.

[HogFaninMemphis]

In the cases of Pearl and Calipari, they are obviously very successful coaches, but it's pretty obvious they cheat.  How much of their success is from being good coaches, how much from the cheating?  I'd take issue with your saying that Auburn doesn't have a lot of talent this year.  Auburn has probably very rarely, maybe never, had as good a roster as this year, even without Wiley and Purifoy. Kentucky without cheating would look like Kentucky under Tubby Smith.  They would usually be very good, but they wouldn't be bringing in whole squads of five star recruits every year.  Final fours would be rarer, and the Kentucky fans would revolt, as they did under Tubby.  Frank Martin did have one really good tournament run, but I don't see how it's possible to mention him as being at the level of, say, Calipari.  Judging from the material released from the FBI probe, it appears Martin cheats, too, just not as well as Cal or Pearl.

I'm talking about coaching ability. Bruce Pearl's teams have overperformed their talent levels most of his career, have Frank Martin's teams. That's a sign of good coaching ability. Calipari is also a good coach, but his coaching ability is so far outweighed by his recruiting prowess that people downplay it.
Tubby Smith is also a great coach, but he wouldn't get his hands dirty, so he lost his job.

[steveaustin69]

Getting talent and coaching is two different things any way. Players make coaches, not the other way around.

Ok. You need a great RECRUITER who is also your head coach.

[steveaustin69]

Throw in Rick Pitino and it proves to be more than an isolated event.

You'd be naive to think players don't consistently get paid. Problem is can you prove it; I doubt those that do were as careless, and frankly, stupid as Miller was. I'd love to be wrong, but I'll let the dust settle before we attribute every other team's success to cheating.

It's not what you know it's what you can prove.

[HogFaninMemphis]

Ok. You need a great RECRUITER who is also your head coach.

yes. But you don't want Scott Drew. You want someone who also can coach. I think MA is a good enough coach where if he got elite players, we could be awesome. He has not yet shown an elite recruiting prowess, but it is nice to have a few good classes in a row.

[Swinesong1]

I'm talking about coaching ability. Bruce Pearl's teams have overperformed their talent levels most of his career, have Frank Martin's teams. That's a sign of good coaching ability. Calipari is also a good coach, but his coaching ability is so far outweighed by his recruiting prowess that people downplay it.
Tubby Smith is also a great coach, but he wouldn't get his hands dirty, so he lost his job.

Pearl's TN teams and Auburn teams have had highly rated players on them. 

[The_Iceman]

yes. But you don't want Scott Drew. You want someone who also can coach. I think MA is a good enough coach where if he got elite players, we could be awesome. He has not yet shown an elite recruiting prowess, but it is nice to have a few good classes in a row.

Since 2009-2010, Scott Drew has been to 2 Elite 8's and 2 Sweet 16s at Baylor. In that same time, Mike has gone to 4 NCAA Tournaments and not gotten out of the 1st weekend. Why dont we want Scott Drew again?

[99toLife]

Getting talent and coaching is two different things any way. Players make coaches, not the other way around.

No argument with that, But according to most on Hogville , getting THE players means you are cheating. That's why we don't get them, and why it's so tough for us.

[Swinesong1]

Since 2009-2010, Scott Drew has been to 2 Elite 8's and 2 Sweet 16s at Baylor. In that same time, Mike has gone to 4 NCAA Tournaments and not gotten out of the 1st weekend. Why dont we want Scott Drew again?

Hard to tell if he's a better coach or not.  There's been talk of his recruiting tactics since he's been there.

[steveaustin69]

yes. But you don't want Scott Drew. You want someone who also can coach. I think MA is a good enough coach where if he got elite players, we could be awesome. He has not yet shown an elite recruiting prowess, but it is nice to have a few good classes in a row.

Scott Drew's been to 7 tournaments in 15 years with two sweet sixteens and two elite eights.  Since everyone likes to give Mike a pass on the first couple years due to the state of the program the same should be done for Drew. He took over a program from a coach who tried to cover up that a player murder another player.

Drew's made the tournament in 7 of 11 with deeper runs than Mike.

[Rome26]

We'll see how the FBI saga plays out, but do you currently have some proof on other coaches besides Miller?

If you believe these big time recruits are turning down thousands of dollars to play for free, I don't know what to tell you.

[steveaustin69]

Since 2009-2010, Scott Drew has been to 2 Elite 8's and 2 Sweet 16s at Baylor. In that same time, Mike has gone to 4 NCAA Tournaments and not gotten out of the 1st weekend. Why dont we want Scott Drew again?

Don't use facts on Hogville. Not allowed.

[k.c.hawg]

yes. But you don't want Scott Drew. You want someone who also can coach. I think MA is a good enough coach where if he got elite players, we could be awesome. He has not yet shown an elite recruiting prowess, but it is nice to have a few good classes in a row.

Good Lord I know it is popular to kick Scott Drew around. Know he lives in gray areas of recruiting. The guy took over the biggest dumpster fire in college basketball in the last 50 years and has only gotten to 2 Elite Eights, 2 Sweet 16's, 3 more NCAA's, An NIT Championship and an NIT Final at Baylor!!

[steveaustin69]

If you believe these big time recruits are turning down thousands of dollars to play for free, I don't know what to tell you.

You'd be naive to think players don't consistently get paid. Problem is can you prove it; I doubt those that do were as careless, and frankly, stupid as Miller was. I'd love to be wrong, but I'll let the dust settle before we attribute every other team's success to cheating.

It's not what you know it's what you can prove.

I don't believe they don't get paid.

[hogsanity]

Yes, there are good coaches in the SEC. Mike Anderson is a GOOD coach. The question should be are there any Good+ to great coaches in the SEC. The jury may be out and that until we see where the fallout goes from this FBI stuff.

[k.c.hawg]

Speaking of Drew, we better be concerned with his younger brother. Still scratching my head how you get #10, #14 and #64 to Vanderbilt in the same class.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

I've never understand why people call Cal a good coach. Is he a good recruiter? Sure...but who isn't when you cheat? He's constantly got a huge number of top talent and seems to underachieve with them more times than not.

[99toLife]

Speaking of Drew, we better be concerned with his younger brother. Still scratching my head how you get #10, #14 and #64 to Vanderbilt in the same class.

If we did that Hogville would go insane that players want to play here with all our awesome tradition.   

[hogsanity]

I've never understand why people call Cal a good coach. Is he a good recruiter? Sure...but who isn't when you cheat? He's constantly got a huge number of top talent and seems to underachieve with them more times than not.

Have you ever seen him in the huddle, at practice, at camps. The guy can coach the game. But you can coach all you want, and if you don't have players it does not matter. Crapilari allowed himself to at the least be surrounded by guys who know how to get those players, by ANY means.

[Atlhogfan1]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/college-basketball-coach-rankings-mike-krzyzewski-tom-izzo-john-calipari-roy-williams-bill-self

A list from the beginning of last season.  It is so subjective.  JTIII not even at Georgetown any longer.  Kevin Stallings is a disaster at Pitt.


SEC's problem is and will be you have UK who cares about basketball.  Arkansas who cares more than anyone else but UK.  Mizzou.  Vandy?  Then the rest would just as soon drop the sport if it were to in some way negatively affect their football program.  Sure they'll follow a winner.  They may have a small group of fans who are basketball fans.  But it just isn't important enough to where its going to draw the brightest and best in their prime.  Barnes, Howland, Pearl all on the downside of their careers.  Frank Martin needs to get out of SC (if he is cleared in this investigation).  Avery will be back in the NBA soon as an asst or front office.  Mark Fox had built a good rep before he took the dead end job at UGa.  The fact they still play in Stegeman is ridiculous no matter the renovations. 


I don't trust either Drew brother when it comes to recruiting.  They remind me of Hugh Freeze. 

[steveaustin69]

I've never understand why people call Cal a good coach. Is he a good recruiter? Sure...but who isn't when you cheat? He's constantly got a huge number of top talent and seems to underachieve with them more times than not.

If he's not implicated in this FBI ordeal are you gonna still attribute all of his success to cheating?

[HF#1]

No, we won't find one the quality of Mike Anderson at this time. And why would you even want to look with all the FBI stuff going down. Appreciate what we got and appreciate the fact that the FBI isn't beating down our door.

[Fan701]

So they'd still be one of the best teams in the nation most years?

Tubby won 76% of his games, and never missed a tournament. 3 Elite Eights, 2 Sweet Sixteens, and a Championship in ten years.

Yeah, they'd still be Kentucky.  As well as Tubby did, at least by the standards of mere mortals, it wasn't good enough for the Kentucky fans.

[steveaustin69]

Yeah, they'd still be Kentucky.  As well as Tubby did, at least by the standards of mere mortals, it wasn't good enough for the Kentucky fans.

That's true. Kentucky fan base somehow takes the cake as being the most obnoxious fan base in all college sports for me.

Worse than Auburn and LSU in football in my opinion.

[Atlhogfan1]

That's true. Kentucky fan base somehow takes the cake as being the most obnoxious fan base in all college sports for me.

Worse than Auburn and LSU in football in my opinion.

Oh St football fans.  Maybe its that region of the country. 

[steveaustin69]

Oh St football fans.  Maybe its that region of the country.

How could I forget them?  They may beat out Big Blue Nation.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

If he's not implicated in this FBI ordeal are you gonna still attribute all of his success to cheating?

Cal is already a known cheater and if nothing turns up I'll basically feel as though he's just learned from his mistakes and does a better job at hiding it.

I'll play along though...if he's not implicated, my opinion will remain the same. He recruits well and is an average Xs and Os guy. And answer Hogsanitys question, I have watched him in huddles and seen him in practices. I've mentioned before, I enjoy watching other coaches. And Cal always portrayed himself as a motivator. And hey, if you can get a team full of 5*s motivated, then you'll probably win a good amount of games. So with that loaded team, he's managed to fall out of the top 25, and fighting on the middle of the pack of the (average) SEC.

So no. I don't think he's a great coach.



Gg

[PonderinHog]

If he's not implicated in this FBI ordeal are you gonna still attribute all of his success to cheating?

Yes.

[steveaustin69]

Cal is already a known cheater and if nothing turns up I'll basically feel as though he's just learned from his mistakes and does a better job at hiding it.

I'll play along though...if he's not implicated, my opinion will remain the same. He recruits well and is an average Xs and Os guy. And answer Hogsanitys question, I have watched him in huddles and seen him in practices. I've mentioned before, I enjoy watching other coaches. And Cal always portrayed himself as a motivator. And hey, if you can get a team full of 5*s motivated, then you'll probably win a good amount of games. So with that loaded team, he's managed to fall out of the top 25, and fighting on the middle of the pack of the (average) SEC.

So no. I don't think he's a great coach.



Gg

Coach Cal's record speaks for itself.

Known cheater? Marcus Camby took money from an agent. Derrick Rose had someone take his SAT.  Should he have known? Maybe; maybe not. Was he accused or found of any wrongdoing? No.

"Calipari was not penalized because he was never included in the original notice of allegations, Dee said. But Dee did stress that vacating the record books carries with it an implied punishment.

Calipari is the first head coach to have vacated Final Four appearances with two different schools. His 1996 Massachusetts team met the same fate because of NCAA rule violations, even though Calipari was not implicated in that instance, either."

[greenEGnHAWGS]

Coach Cal's record speaks for itself.

Known cheater? Marcus Camby took money from an agent. Derrick Rose had someone take his SAT.  Should he have known? Maybe; maybe not. Was he accused or found of any wrongdoing? No.

"Calipari was not penalized because he was never included in the original notice of allegations, Dee said. But Dee did stress that vacating the record books carries with it an implied punishment.

Calipari is the first head coach to have vacated Final Four appearances with two different schools. His 1996 Massachusetts team met the same fate because of NCAA rule violations, even though Calipari was not implicated in that instance, either."

When you have the horses, it's easy to win races. You can believe what you want as will I. I tend to look at his record with elite talent year in and year out, and I believe he's underachieved. He seems to always be on the cusp of some investigation wherever he goes, so as the head of his team, I place that blame on him and have a hard time believing he's oblivious to everything that goes on with his players. 

[hogsanity]

Coach Cal's record speaks for itself.

Known cheater? Marcus Camby took money from an agent. Derrick Rose had someone take his SAT.  Should he have known? Maybe; maybe not. Was he accused or found of any wrongdoing? No.

"Calipari was not penalized because he was never included in the original notice of allegations, Dee said. But Dee did stress that vacating the record books carries with it an implied punishment.

Calipari is the first head coach to have vacated Final Four appearances with two different schools. His 1996 Massachusetts team met the same fate because of NCAA rule violations, even though Calipari was not implicated in that instance, either."

Would be interesting to see how many would blame the HC if it turned out a Hog player got $ from an agent.

[Paul]

Scott Drew's been to 7 tournaments in 15 years with two sweet sixteens and two elite eights.  Since everyone likes to give Mike a pass on the first couple years due to the state of the program the same should be done for Drew. He took over a program from a coach who tried to cover up that a player murder another player.

Drew's made the tournament in 7 of 11 with deeper runs than Mike.

to learn more about what may be responsible for Drew's success click on this link:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/critical-coaches-who-is-perceived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport/