General Sports Discussion > Fairways and Greens

I hate cart paths...

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HognitiveDissonance:

I hate it when golf balls bounce off cart paths.
Yes, I like to walk, but this is not a digression in riding vs walking. This is about lazy course design.
I know someone will say...get better and quit hitting cart paths.
But hear me out.
How many courses do you see do you see a cart path literally 5-10 yards off a fairway?
A bounce can help you sometimes...but most of the time it hurts.
A cart path should be treated the same as a TV tower: a man-made obstruction that you get local relief from. Free drop. Drop at spot where contact with path was made, no closer to the hole, and play on.
Courses should be designed where cart paths are all routed OUT OF BOUNDS. In places where this is not feasible, then implement the free drop rule.

golf2day:

Hell, there's a hole at the course I play where I try to hit the cart path. It sets up perfect to give you a wedge into a par 5. Leave my cart paths alone!

And stay off my lawn!

ricepig:


--- Quote from: golf2day on August 12, 2017, 06:08:31 pm ---Hell, there's a hole at the course I play where I try to hit the cart path. It sets up perfect to give you a wedge into a par 5. Leave my cart paths alone!

And stay off my lawn!

--- End quote ---
I grew up on a course around an airport. There was a dogleg par 5 around a runaway. I hit several drives with a fade that would run down the fairway and end up hole high after bouncing off it. Now, it was only around 465 yards or so, but cutting across the runway shaved 150 yards off of it.

GolfNut57:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on August 12, 2017, 01:36:05 pm ---I hate it when golf balls bounce off cart paths.
Yes, I like to walk, but this is not a digression in riding vs walking. This is about lazy course design.
I know someone will say...get better and quit hitting cart paths.
But hear me out.
How many courses do you see do you see a cart path literally 5-10 yards off a fairway?
A bounce can help you sometimes...but most of the time it hurts.
A cart path should be treated the same as a TV tower: a man-made obstruction that you get local relief from. Free drop. Drop at spot where contact with path was made, no closer to the hole, and play on.
Courses should be designed where cart paths are all routed OUT OF BOUNDS. In places where this is not feasible, then implement the free drop rule.

--- End quote ---

Um........get better and stop hitting the paths. lol

golf2day:


--- Quote from: GolfNut57 on August 12, 2017, 08:59:06 pm ---Um........get better and stop hitting the paths. lol

--- End quote ---
Or get better so you can hit the cart path effectively, lol.

HognitiveDissonance:

I usually score between 80-85.
I don't mutter too much if I spray one 30 yards off line, although I do think the paths should always be OB.
This is about lazily placed paths in the field of play, basically. Too close to the action.

Oh, I've been helped numerous times by a fortunate bounce off a cart path which propelled the ball another 30 yards...or it sometimes rolls down the path another 30 yards before depositing in the grass.

But even averaging out the laws of 'good bounces' vs 'bad bounces' and just saying 'that's golf', it brings me back to the same place and the same question: there is no doubt a path is man-made object which shouldn't be there. And it surprises me there aren't rules to address ricochets. It should not be treated the same as a tree, where the squirrel sometimes throws the ball out in the fairway, and sometimes eats it. For those, I say 'that's golf' and move on.

You do get relief for your stance from a cart path, I know. I don't even use it half the time. It doesn't affect me that much. What I DO want relief from is the jackrabbit bounces from this concrete in the middle of my nice, green, golf course. Harumph.

Seriously, now I digress into the arcane 'Rules of Golf': how does one get relief from having to take a stance on a cart path, but isn't granted relief when ball strikes same cart path? Maybe they figure the luck of the draw balances out the weird bounces. But it doesn't seem consistent. If you get relief in one case, you should get relief in the other case. Or vice versa.


HognitiveDissonance:

The last few weeks I've switched gears on this subject and started taking a drop at point of contact. Whether it helped me or hurt me, I'm dropping right there.
I'm not playing for money, so it doesn't matter. My partners can do the same if they want.
Point of principle for me.
It usually happens every other round. The cumulative effect of all these bounces over the years and the realization 'this ain't right' has led me to this 'epiphany'.

cc:

I know a  lot of places run them out away from trees closer to the edge of the fairway to keep tree roots from busting them up as bad. 

Jim Harris:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on August 12, 2017, 01:36:05 pm ---I hate it when golf balls bounce off cart paths.
Yes, I like to walk, but this is not a digression in riding vs walking. This is about lazy course design.
I know someone will say...get better and quit hitting cart paths.
But hear me out.
How many courses do you see do you see a cart path literally 5-10 yards off a fairway?
A bounce can help you sometimes...but most of the time it hurts.
A cart path should be treated the same as a TV tower: a man-made obstruction that you get local relief from. Free drop. Drop at spot where contact with path was made, no closer to the hole, and play on.
Courses should be designed where cart paths are all routed OUT OF BOUNDS. In places where this is not feasible, then implement the free drop rule.

--- End quote ---

In 54 years of playing golf, I can't remember ever getting a bad bounce from a cart path. I'm sure I did, like a bad carom into or behind trees, but I don't remember it. I do remember the good bounces, though. Playing a scramble at Burns Park with Nolan Richardson, Scott Edgar and another friend when Nolan had first arrived, we were pretty much using all of Nolan's drives, even the bad ones that went a fairway or two over. He could absolutely smash it, though his "towards" was often off. Anyway, on No. 10, par 4, downhill and over a couple of hills, I hit one that ends up about 10 yards just right of the green. We all decided, especially Coach, that I had to have caught the cart path to end up there. I didn't care how. And I think we still parred that hole from 10 yards off the green. ha.

HognitiveDissonance:


--- Quote from: cc on August 14, 2017, 01:40:02 pm ---I know a  lot of places run them out away from trees closer to the edge of the fairway to keep tree roots from busting them up as bad.

--- End quote ---
That's a good point. I've seen quite a few paths with tree root encroachment.

HognitiveDissonance:


--- Quote from: Jim Harris on August 14, 2017, 02:24:11 pm ---In 54 years of playing golf, I can't remember ever getting a bad bounce from a cart path. I'm sure I did, like a bad carom into or behind trees, but I don't remember it. I do remember the good bounces, though. Playing a scramble at Burns Park with Nolan Richardson, Scott Edgar and another friend when Nolan had first arrived, we were pretty much using all of Nolan's drives, even the bad ones that went a fairway or two over. He could absolutely smash it, though his "towards" was often off. Anyway, on No. 10, par 4, downhill and over a couple of hills, I hit one that ends up about 10 yards just right of the green. We all decided, especially Coach, that I had to have caught the cart path to end up there. I didn't care how. And I think we still parred that hole from 10 yards off the green. ha.

--- End quote ---
I could see that happening on #10. Downhill, dog-leg right, take it over the trees, cut the corner,  and get a good carom off the path and the ball could end up close to the green.

Not surprised by that. What I am surprised by is hearing that Nolan, Edgar, etc were playing golf at Burns Park instead of a swankier place like Pleasant Valley, CC of LR, etc where you would expect a Razorback coach to be playing.

Jim Harris:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on August 14, 2017, 11:25:15 pm ---I could see that happening on #10. Downhill, dog-leg right, take it over the trees, cut the corner,  and get a good carom off the path and the ball could end up close to the green.

Not surprised by that. What I am surprised by is hearing that Nolan, Edgar, etc were playing golf at Burns Park instead of a swankier place like Pleasant Valley, CC of LR, etc where you would expect a Razorback coach to be playing.

--- End quote ---

This was some kind of Arkansas Activities Association coaches summer meeting/event and they invited Nolan and Scott down to meet many of the state's coaches, or something like that. Gosh, it's been 31-32 years. Sid Simpson was the AD at Pine Bluff. Sid had been the AD at Western Texas JC and gave Nolan his first head coaching job beyond high school, Nolan won a national title there, landed the Tulsa job with those stud players like Pressey (instead of just feeding them on to Gerald Myers and Texas Tech, like Myers and assistant Rob Evans had hoped) and the rest is history. And I was honored to be invited by Sid to join them and have four hours hanging around Nolan and to come up with a sports column.
Yes, no doubt, on most occasions coming to LR, Nolan would have been playing golf with the big boys at the best courses, though in the summers he'd play just about anywhere he was invited. He was some kind of athlete.

oldman1015:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on August 14, 2017, 10:29:55 am ---The last few weeks I've switched gears on this subject and started taking a drop at point of contact. Whether it helped me or hurt me, I'm dropping right there.
I'm not playing for money, so it doesn't matter. My partners can do the same if they want.
Point of principle for me.
It usually happens every other round. The cumulative effect of all these bounces over the years and the realization 'this ain't right' has led me to this 'epiphany'.

--- End quote ---
I hate out of bounds so I'm just going to start taking a drop where the ball went out of bounds.

ricepig:


--- Quote from: oldman1015 on August 16, 2017, 10:24:22 am ---I hate out of bounds so I'm just going to start taking a drop where the ball went out of bounds.

--- End quote ---

I hate putting out, so I'm just going to call it good from the tee box.....

Jackrabbit Hog:


--- Quote from: ricepig on August 16, 2017, 10:56:44 am ---I hate putting out, so I'm just going to call it good from the tee box.....

--- End quote ---

I hate getting up early to get to the course so I'm just going to get a blank card and go ahead and write 67 on it.

widespreadsooie:

I think it's a somewhat valid point. I feel like my ball takes more unfortunate bounces off a cart path than one that benefits me.  The cart path is man made but relief from man made objects only applies once the ball is rested.

onebadrubi:


--- Quote from: oldman1015 on August 16, 2017, 10:24:22 am ---I hate out of bounds so I'm just going to start taking a drop where the ball went out of bounds.

--- End quote ---

I believe you will see this rule changed in the near future to this.  All for speed of play

oldman1015:


--- Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on August 16, 2017, 11:19:56 am ---I hate getting up early to get to the course so I'm just going to get a blank card and go ahead and write 67 on it.

--- End quote ---
Or just sit in the bar and fill out the card. I'm starting to love the game again.

HognitiveDissonance:


--- Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on August 16, 2017, 11:19:56 am ---I hate getting up early to get to the course so I'm just going to get a blank card and go ahead and write 67 on it.

--- End quote ---
That would be 134 for 18 holes...

HognitiveDissonance:


--- Quote from: onebadrubi on August 16, 2017, 12:47:19 pm ---I believe you will see this rule changed in the near future to this.  All for speed of play

--- End quote ---
That would be good. For the pros, of course.
No one playing for fun is going to go search for a ball and then march all the way back to re-tee. 99.8% will drop somewhere and play on.
But for the pros and other 'official' type events, that would be a welcome rule change.

Jim Harris:


--- Quote from: onebadrubi on August 16, 2017, 12:47:19 pm ---I believe you will see this rule changed in the near future to this.  All for speed of play

--- End quote ---

I don't know when the rule was changed by the R&A/USGA or whomever, but in the 1950 U.S. Open at Merion, according to two major books about it (being as it was Hogan's comeback and all), you didn't have a stroke and distance penalty then when you hit about of bounds. You just re-teed and hit 2. Then 3 if you hit the second drive out of bounds. Obviously, somewhere after 1950 the ruling bodies added a stroke to it for a significant penalty. I like the idea of playing OB as a lateral hazard and dropping where it went out of bounds, though a lot of times that still might leave you deep in the trees and your only recourse next to trying to weave your way back out from the forest is to re-tee and hit your third.

golf2day:


--- Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on August 16, 2017, 03:53:50 pm ---That would be good. For the pros, of course.
No one playing for fun is going to go search for a ball and then march all the way back to re-tee. 99.8% will drop somewhere and play on.
But for the pros and other 'official' type events, that would be a welcome rule change.

--- End quote ---
Oh, if you're playing in our $.25 skins game you better believe you're going back to retee if you hit one out.

You're also playing it down, even off rocks, and you better not play out of order or fix a spike mark in your line. And don't even think about picking up that 14" side hill down hill putt. It's not good. Putt it out.

Get some

onebadrubi:


--- Quote from: golf2day on August 16, 2017, 06:14:18 pm ---Oh, if you're playing in our $.25 skins game you better believe you're going back to retee if you hit one out.

You're also playing it down, even off rocks, and you better not play out of order or fix a spike mark in your line. And don't even think about picking up that 14" side hill down hill putt. It's not good. Putt it out.

Get some

--- End quote ---

For .25 game???  Waste of time search for quarters. 

golf2day:


--- Quote from: onebadrubi on August 16, 2017, 07:07:56 pm ---For .25 game???  Waste of time search for quarters.

--- End quote ---
It was a sarcastic "get off my lawn" post.

Admittedly not my best work.

 In that game we've given 4 footers and last round I let my buddy take a free drop from a damn ditch with his ball under water just because there were rocks under his ball. That was on 18 with me in the middle of the fairway and about 11 carry overs on the line. I ain't no hard ass.


onebadrubi:


--- Quote from: golf2day on August 16, 2017, 07:30:04 pm ---It was a sarcastic "get off my lawn" post.

Admittedly not my best work.

 In that game we've given 4 footers and last round I let my buddy take a free drop from a damn ditch with his ball under water just because there were rocks under his ball. That was on 18 with me in the middle of the fairway and about 11 carry overs on the line. I ain't no hard ass.

--- End quote ---

Hell. I'm to drunk by 18 to look for a ball in water.  Fairway it is for me

theFlyingHog:


--- Quote from: golf2day on August 12, 2017, 06:08:31 pm ---Hell, there's a hole at the course I play where I try to hit the cart path. It sets up perfect to give you a wedge into a par 5. Leave my cart paths alone!

And stay off my lawn!

--- End quote ---
That cart path sends my slice into traffic.

golf2day:


--- Quote from: theFlyingHog on August 20, 2017, 11:30:20 am ---That cart path sends my slice into traffic.

--- End quote ---
I'm not talking about 14, pards. That cart path is death. I'm talking about 5. Hit that sucker and you're golden.

Btw, as little as you've played it doesn't take a cart path to send your slice into traffic. Your swing will do that without any help:)

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