Two Questions

[ogar_hog]

1.  Have any of you used a offset driver and if so did it cure your slice?  Nothing I seem to do can fix it.

2.  Have any of you bought clone clubs?  Like from www.pinewoodgolf.com.  If so what was their performace compared to their higher priced counterparts.

[Hawg414]

1.  Have any of you used a offset driver and if so did it cure your slice?  Nothing I seem to do can fix it.

2.  Have any of you bought clone clubs?  Like from www.pinewoodgolf.com.  If so what was their performace compared to their higher priced counterparts.

i have not tried the clones, so i cant speak for that.  and its obvious from only a few posts that feralhog has a better grip on this game than i (most of us) do, so bump his advice above my own whenever he speaks   

BUT with that said... heres are two different tips (very basic) for two different situations (very common) that have worked for me from day one of swinging a club.   

if your slice starts left then curves back to the middle or slightly right:
a ball will always start in the direction of the path of your swing, and it will always end up where your clubface is pointed at impact.  you are more than likely "coming over the top" and/or swinging out-to-in.  try this... an old coach once stuck a tee 3 inches in front of my ball, and 3 inches to the right. he told me to knock that tee out of the ground in my swing - to hit my own ball, then to hit that tee.  granted, you wont actually hit that tee... but in trying to, you will get your swing back on the proper path.  (important to not let the right elbow fly.. keep it tight to you...stick it in your side if you have to)

if your slice starts straight then curves violently to the right:
in this scenario, your swing path is probably ok, you are just leaving the clubface wide open.  try the basics first, such as a stronger grip, or sticking that tee in the ground... but if those dont work, then this same coach told me to "feel as though i was stopping my hands on top of the ball."  this allows the clubhead to release through the impact area, which is necessary to hit a straight shot.  a lot of people who hit this hard right slice hang onto the club with their left hand wayyy too strong, in essence pulling that club AT the ball, rather than swinging the club through the ball.       

and i know those sound very simplistic... but im tellin ya, whenever a slice pops back into my game, i go to those two things... and its right down the pipe. 

[hogfankb]

1.  Have any of you used a offset driver and if so did it cure your slice?  Nothing I seem to do can fix it.

2.  Have any of you bought clone clubs?  Like from www.pinewoodgolf.com.  If so what was their performace compared to their higher priced counterparts.

I am not sure what you mean by "clone clubs" either. I would expect you mean like knockoffs. The first clubs I ever played were Square Twos. I really liked them. I was still learning of course but they felt great and were cheap(very important while i was learning).

[ogar_hog]

Yes. Clone clubs are like knockoffs.  They say: compare to the nike ignite, or the cleveland launcher.  Kind of like the equate stuff at wal-mart.  I have a basic set from the mentioned retailer and am looking to upgrade a little bit, but can't afford to spend alot of money.

[hogfankb]

I know the feeling. I would still be playing used ebay clubs if it wasn't for college graduation.

To me a person's swing is a lot more important that the clubs they hit. If you have a really good swing you a name brand might a few extra yards and let you work the ball better. But for the average guy you have your one ball flight and hitting cheaper clubs isn't going to keep you from taking your friends money any less.

[Hawg414]

my first set was some arnold palmer clubs that i got the complete set, brand new, for 100 bucks.  i have since discovered that Ol' Arnie was ahead of his time in club design too... bc i swear the heads on those irons were about as big as the drivers are nowadays. 

[razorbackdan]

I have a Cleveland Sport OS 410 Driver ($99 in most golf catalogs) that is offset. It helped me when I was struggling with my drives off the tee, but once I made some swing plane and grip adjustments, it wasn't as helpful. It was helpful with the fact that it set up so squarely to the ball, which helps mentally when on the tee box. You will probably lose a little distance with an offset driver, but that shouldn't be your concern if you are a high handicapper. Fairways hit the most underrated amateurs stat and the most overrated professional stat. More Fairways = More Greens hit, which = lower scores.

[Feralhog]

1.  Have any of you used a offset driver and if so did it cure your slice?  Nothing I seem to do can fix it.

2.  Have any of you bought clone clubs?  Like from www.pinewoodgolf.com.  If so what was their performace compared to their higher priced counterparts.

Nothing wrong with knock offs if you are just taking up the game OR play very few rounds.  In fact, if this describes you, knock offs are the way to go. 

As you may have noticed, my posts tend to be long, and Hawg 14, don't be so humble.  Your post was pretty much dead on.  You obviously know more about the swing than you let on.

Ogar asked about a slice and whether an offset driver would work, and the answer is yes, to a point.  If you are the type that will only play 5 rounds of golf a year, then go buy an offset driver.  If you are a beginner or you plan on playing more than a handful times a year, let's fix the slice.


Let me add a couple of things regarding Hawg 14's reply to Ogar's post.   If you are out of position, it's nearly impossible to be repetitive at finding the correct position at impact. 

Like Hawg 14 described, your position is causing the  club to work from the outside, wiping across the face at impact, causing the ball to start left and curve right.

Using the ping pong example, your club is striking the ball in much the same manner as a ping pong paddle strikes the ball, when you want the ball to curve right.

There's nothing wrong with a ball flight curving a bit right, what you don't want is a ball that curves so much, it can't be controlled. 

It's my belief you only need to be in a reasonable position to be a good golfer, so let's get you in a position that's reasonable, which advances the ball in a manner that's reasonable, or playable.

The easiest thing a slicer can do to be in a more reasonable position is adjust his feet.  Just before you start your swing, slide your right foot back to a position where the tip of your toes are about even with the arch, or the middle of your left foot.  Be careful not to let your upper body change the direction you are aiming the club. 

If you notice yourself fighting your upper body, don't force things to the point you get all knotted up.  Just back away and relax, and start again, taking your normal stance, then just before you start your swing, adjust your right foot and watch the club face making sure your aim doesn't drastically change.  From there, just take your normal golf swing.

It will probably take a few swings before you get comfortable.  Once you get comfortable, play around with your right foot positon.  Hit some balls with your right foot even with your left heel and even an inch or two behind your left heel. 

A good drill is to stand on the range with your upper body square to the target and aim your clubface at your target.  Set your lower body with a wide stance, with your butt somewhat facing your target.  Position the ball even with the outside of your left foot even with your toes, and take as big of a swing as possible, using a 5 or 6 iron.

There's probably some other areas that need addressing, if your slice is big, but what I described above will put you in a better position, meaning a better swing plane.  Once your swing plane becomes reasonable, the other areas become much easier to tweak.   

[ogar_hog]

Thanks everyone...I think I might go with the clones.  I play around 5-10 rounds per year.  My slice used to be a mammoth hook, but it's not as bad now.  I'm still in the rough, but on the fairway side of the cart path.  I just need that extra something to get it in the fairway.  My short iron game is pretty good so I think if I can get it in the fairway my scores will drop drastically.

[hawgjowls]

not so sure about that tip feral (not trying to be a jerk).  if he would take some lessons and start to develop a decent swing then his slice will go away.  if he does what you suggest then it is possible that his slice will look worse (when it actually is not) because it will be starting farther right off the club face. or he will come over the top and jerk it straight left.

[ogar_hog]

not so sure about that tip feral (not trying to be a jerk).  if he would take some lessons and start to develop a decent swing then his slice will go away.  if he does what you suggest then it is possible that his slice will look worse (when it actually is not) because it will be starting farther right off the club face. or he will come over the top and jerk it straight left.

Your not the first person to suggest that (the lessons). I played a round with a guy about two years ago (We were both singles heading out at the same time) and he helped me so much.  He cured that hook by changing my grip.  I may look him up and see if he would play a couple of round with me, my treat.  Might be cheaper than lessons.

[Feralhog]

not so sure about that tip feral (not trying to be a jerk).  if he would take some lessons and start to develop a decent swing then his slice will go away.  if he does what you suggest then it is possible that his slice will look worse (when it actually is not) because it will be starting farther right off the club face. or he will come over the top and jerk it straight left.

You're not being a jerk, I completely agree with the premise of your post.  What I suggested may have sounded like a quick fix to some of the better golfers, but it wasn't.  What I was suggesting, would help Ogar get the club in the right position OR in other words, the proper swing plane.   

I believe being on plane is the single most important thing in the golf swing.  Had he come back and said, I did as you suggested and my ball started right then sliced, as you pointed out, is a very real possibility.  That doesn't take away from the fact he was on the wrong swing plane, or the description as in Hawg 14's post, would have been the ball starts at the target then slices.  If the ball starts at the target repeatedly, there's a very real possibility the guys on the right plane.  I addressed the ball starting left, slicing right in my post. 

If what you posted had occured after closing his stance, it tells us the club face is open at impact. Like I said in my post.  Getting the club on the proper plane is the first goal, from there the tweaking becomes much easier.

[hawgjowls]

agree on the whole plane deal.  i also subscribe to the little saying after you get to the top "lead with the hips and the hands will follow"

[Feralhog]

agree on the whole plane deal.  i also subscribe to the little saying after you get to the top "lead with the hips and the hands will follow"

For a two plane golf swing that's 100% correct.