Help with my shortgame.

[hogfankb]

Anybody got any tips, swing thoughts or anything that help with chipping?

I don't have much trouble with the mid to long range chips where I can roll the ball a ways. But for some reason I can't get short chips close. If I take a comfortable swing I hit the ball too far. If I try and shorten my swing to take something off I decelerate and hit is fat. I even hit a LW to try and help...it doesn't. This is costing me so many shots a round I can't even imagine what my score would get down to if I could just save par on what most people would consider an easy up and down.

[Feralhog]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

[HamShank]

Anytime I'm having trouble with short chips, I try to get the ball on the ground as soon as possible.  In other words, there's too much that can go wrong by trying to loft the ball up (as you're taking a bigger swing, etc.).  Instead, pull a 7 or 8 iron out of your bag, just barely get that ball over the fringe and treat it more like a putt.  Then all you have to worry about is speed.

You now see more pros perfecting the fairway wood from off the fringe shot.  You see it more and more in tournaments.  That's an option for longer chips that need to get their roll out.

Optimally, putt it whenever you can.  Next best thing is to use a club that you have more confidence in than your wedge. 

And if you HAVE to loft the shot over something and get it to stop quickly, I would recommend practicing more of a pendulum motion with your chips (a la putting) rather than any fancy wrist-motion, and keeping your head DOWN and STEADY.  That's the most important part to me.  Success in chipping begins and ends with keeping your eye on the ball until after you've made contact.

[hogfankb]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

[hogfankb]

Anytime I'm having trouble with short chips, I try to get the ball on the ground as soon as possible.  In other words, there's too much that can go wrong by trying to loft the ball up (as you're taking a bigger swing, etc.).  Instead, pull a 7 or 8 iron out of your bag, just barely get that ball over the fringe and treat it more like a putt.  Then all you have to worry about is speed.

You now see more pros perfecting the fairway wood from off the fringe shot.  You see it more and more in tournaments.  That's an option for longer chips that need to get their roll out.

Optimally, putt it whenever you can.  Next best thing is to use a club that you have more confidence in than your wedge. 

And if you HAVE to loft the shot over something and get it to stop quickly, I would recommend practicing more of a pendulum motion with your chips (a la putting) rather than any fancy wrist-motion, and keeping your head DOWN and STEADY.  That's the most important part to me.  Success in chipping begins and ends with keeping your eye on the ball until after you've made contact.

I have tried using 9 irons and things like that just like you are talking about. I tend to hit it thin when I do. But that may be just a lack of practice on my part. I should probably start really working on that. Might be a solution for me. Doesn't help that I am a horrible putter too.

[FayettenamVeteran]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Use a PW, 7 iron or something and use a putter stroke.

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

[Feralhog]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

where do you play the ball in your stance?

[hogfankb]

Well that sounds like the popular strategy. I will have to start practicing that more and see how much it helps.

If I could start getting up and down as much as an average golfer I could probably cut my handicap down from an 8 or 9 to a 5 or 6. Lately if I don't hit the green in regulation it isn't gonna be a par. Numbers can get real high real quick playing that way.

[hogfankb]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

where do you play the ball in your stance?

Just of the inside of my back foot. If I am going to be putting with a wedge do I need to play it back in my stance?

I also have an open stance when chipping. Saw couples teach it that way on the golf channel and it has really helped me strike the ball better on most of my chips.

[Feralhog]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

where do you play the ball in your stance?

Just of the inside of my back foot. If I am going to be putting with a wedge do I need to play it back in my stance?

I also have an open stance when chipping. Saw couples teach it that way on the golf channel and it has really helped me strike the ball better on most of my chips.

Depending on the speed of the chip, but for a short chip with little green, like described above, you need to use one of your wedges.

If you are a right handed player, I assume by back foot you mean the ball is positioned just inside your right foot, if so, then that is correct.  Using an open stance is also correct.  The only other thing to check is the distance you stand from the ball.  On chip shots, you want to camp on top of the ball almost as close as you would stand on a putt.

Since your set up and ball position is good, your following description, 
But for some reason I can't get short chips close. If I take a comfortable swing I hit the ball too far. If I try and shorten my swing to take something off I decelerate and hit is fat. without actually seeing you hit a chip, and based upon your description of comfortable swing and shorten to take something off, tells me you are steering your club to your target with the shorter swing. 

The proper way to hit the shot is with a shorter swing, and without getting too technical, the common mistake people make when they shorten their swing is a forcing of the club down the target line instead of allowing the club to work a bit inside the target line just after impact. 

When the club is working properly, you'll get the sensation that your left arm stays somewhat close to your side, and the club works a bit around your body. 

A good drill might be to take a table napkin and place it under your left arm pit, and hit some chips without the napkin falling out.   (don't treat the napkin like your hulk hogan by clamping down hard,  stay relaxed, using just enough pressure to keep the napkin in place) This should help you work the club more on plane on short chips.   

[Jim Harris]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

use your putter

[Hawg414]

hit the front of the ball.
i quit chunking them when i started focusing on the front of the ball rather than the back of it. 

[Feralhog]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

use your putter

Although 4ft of fringe may be too much fringe to putt through, using your putter is never a bad idea, especially if you fear your wedges.     

[HogISH™]

with 4ft of fringe try your 6 iron and swing it just like a putter. easy to keep on line and easy to judge the speed. as you move back every few feet add one club for loft but use the same stroke. after a little practice you will be able to judge the loft required to get the ball on the green fastest.

additionally you must look at the distance from the edge of the green to the pin. you may be 4ft off the green but you might need a 8 or 9 iron to get the ball a little higher when working w/ less green.

especially this time of year when there is very little grass this can save you a number of strokes...

HogISH

[Feralhog]

with 4ft of fringe try your 6 iron and swing it just like a putter. easy to keep on line and easy to judge the speed. as you move back every few feet add one club for loft but use the same stroke. after a little practice you will be able to judge the loft required to get the ball on the green fastest.

additionally you must look at the distance from the edge of the green to the pin. you may be 4ft off the green but you might need a 8 or 9 iron to get the ball a little higher when working w/ less green.

especially this time of year when there is very little grass this can save you a number of strokes...

HogISH

Good god guys, how slow are the greens in Arkansas?  Unless the green is running 6 on the stimp, or the shot is up a steep ass hill, I can't invision using anything stronger than a pw.  Using a 6 iron over 4 ft of fringe to a pin set 7 or 8 feet from the edge, using that tecnique,  anything inside of 5ft would be one hell of a shot.  Inside 5 feet would be a great shot with an 8 iron.    Maybe bumping it through the fringe, with a 6 iron would work, I'm not sure???  Never tried it.     

[hogfankb]

I play at Paradise. The greens are definitely not a 6 during the peak summer months. PW or 9 iron would probably do great. Now all i have to do is practice and get to where I can actually execute this shot.

[razorbackdan]

Paradise Valley in the Summer has some faaaast greens. Not so much yet, but these early season hot temps will speed them up soon. I'm heading up there right now, in fact.

[hogfankb]

Paradise Valley in the Summer has some faaaast greens. Not so much yet, but these early season hot temps will speed them up soon. I'm heading up there right now, in fact.

They were slow early in the week. I went out there yesterday and the wind made them rediculously fast for this early in the year.

[Elrod]

To be a good chipper you only need to remember three things. 1. Never stop or decelerate your follow thru. 2. Keep your wrists firm & don't unhinge. 3. Be sure to keep your hands ahead of your club head thru impact.  Let your backswing and follow-thru determine the length of your shot. Personally, 90% of the time I use only SW or PW. This is when on fringes or within a few yards.  Do the above three things and anyone can be a good chipper.

[devildog]

I'm not a real good golfer, so I have no pride and use whatever it takes to help me score.

I know what you're going through on those close in chips - I use a Wal-Mart variety "Chipper"

Putter build with a 5-iron loft, just take a normal putting stroke, the first 20-30% of distance traveled will be airborne. Once you get the feel of the club it really works. Better players look at you like you're crazy but when that good up and down wins the hole for you, they don't tease anymore.

[Feralhog]

I'm not a real good golfer, so I have no pride and use whatever it takes to help me score.

I know what you're going through on those close in chips - I use a Wal-Mart variety "Chipper"

Putter build with a 5-iron loft, just take a normal putting stroke, the first 20-30% of distance traveled will be airborne. Once you get the feel of the club it really works. Better players look at you like you're crazy but when that good up and down wins the hole for you, they don't tease anymore.

   Chipping is all feel, who cares what the club looks like, this club would be a great option for someone struggling with their wedge game.  However, to get to another level, learning the soft wedge shot (or chip) is the fastest way to consistantly lower your score.     

I bet there's a good chance most of us have heard an expert on tv suggest using a putting stroke when chipping?  It's true, you can, but there's a catch.   

IMO, a chip shot is a long version of the putting stroke, And there are two basic types of putting strokes. 

A pendulum type stroke, or straight back and straight through, OR the door hinge type stroke, or inside to inside.

The techinque used with a door hinge stroke is the one I described in the post above, where the club works a bit inside after impact.  IMO, this is the most natural way to work a short shot.

If your putting stroke is straight back and straight through (pendulum) the tips Elrod described is the way to go.  However, there are some things a person needs to understand. 

Keeping your hands firm and ahead of the club head takes away loft, to  regain loft, the player needs to weaken his left hand grip  and / or open the club face just a bit at address.  A person who is mechanical in their approach to golf would probably feel very comfortable with this technique.

I personally believe there is more than just one way to  swing a golf club, hit a chip, or stroke a putt.  Just remember, when we read a tip in golf digest, or hear an analyst on tv say do this or that, the tip may work well for some, and not so well for others.

[hawgjowls]

feral, how do you feel about using fairway woods when you have 3-4 ft of fringe?

[Feralhog]

feral, how do you feel about using fairway woods when you have 3-4 ft of fringe?

It's pretty popular as evidenced by watching the pros on tv.   

I'm all for using whatever club you feel you can get closest to the hole.  I think too many times, people use a club they know that's the one they are suppose to use, yet have no clue how to hit the shot with that club.  I say, if you don't feel good about the club in your hand, replace it with one you do feel good about.

That may sound like a contradiction to what I've said in the post above, so let me explain.  You have to know how to hit a shot before you can hit it.  And practice is the only way to learn to hit different type shots.  But you must know the proper technique, or you'll be  grooving a bad habit. 

In the long run, you'll play better golf if you learn the soft wedge.  There may be situations where a fairway metal is the best option. But  until a person feels comfortable hitting the shot, they're much better off using a club their comfortable with, especially in pressure situations. 

[hawgjowls]

completely agree on practice and feel for the club.

[Hawg414]

if youre not comfortable with your wedge, i think when in doubt, putt it.  texas wedge it.  sure, there will be instances where you cant putt it... but more times than not, you can.  ANY amount of fringe can be putted through, and even a certain amount of non-fringe. 

reason i say this is margin of error - a missed putt from this situation misses by 2-5 feet.  yet a missed chip can be 10 feet short, or 20 feet long. 

i have a friend who thinks if his ball is off the green, it MUST be chipped.  i mean even if he is sitting on 1 inch of fringe, he chips it.  damnedest thing.  and of course i just laugh and tell him what an idiot he is everytime he leaves that par putt about 15 feet. 

[Feralhog]

if youre not comfortable with your wedge, i think when in doubt, putt it.  texas wedge it.  sure, there will be instances where you cant putt it... but more times than not, you can.  ANY amount of fringe can be putted through, and even a certain amount of non-fringe. 

reason i say this is margin of error - a missed putt from this situation misses by 2-5 feet.  yet a missed chip can be 10 feet short, or 20 feet long. 

i have a friend who thinks if his ball is off the green, it MUST be chipped.  i mean even if he is sitting on 1 inch of fringe, he chips it.  damnedest thing.  and of course i just laugh and tell him what an idiot he is everytime he leaves that par putt about 15 feet. 

NO doubt!  But if you want to take your game to the next level, for many reasons, you gots to have the soft wedge.

[hogfankb]

if youre not comfortable with your wedge, i think when in doubt, putt it.  texas wedge it.  sure, there will be instances where you cant putt it... but more times than not, you can.  ANY amount of fringe can be putted through, and even a certain amount of non-fringe. 

reason i say this is margin of error - a missed putt from this situation misses by 2-5 feet.  yet a missed chip can be 10 feet short, or 20 feet long. 

i have a friend who thinks if his ball is off the green, it MUST be chipped.  i mean even if he is sitting on 1 inch of fringe, he chips it.  damnedest thing.  and of course i just laugh and tell him what an idiot he is everytime he leaves that par putt about 15 feet. 

I haven't been real impressed with the fringes at PVAC this year. It can be pretty tough to get a good roll out of it. But your right it is still better than a bladed chip. BTW, i'm a pretty horrible putter to so missed putts can be pretty bad as well.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Close to the green, as you're describing, I like to use a sand wedge--even a lob wedge if the pin is tight--with my hands forward (delofting) and at least 60% of my weight on my front foot (ball played back in stance).  This causes a descending blow--hitting the ball first, of course--w/lots of spin, for control.  I used to love to watch Payne Stewart play this shot--any shot, really--a thing of beauty!!  I really miss Payne...

[hawgdaddy306]

Close to the green, as you're describing, I like to use a sand wedge--even a lob wedge if the pin is tight--with my hands forward (delofting) and at least 60% of my weight on my front foot (ball played back in stance).  This causes a descending blow--hitting the ball first, of course--w/lots of spin, for control.  I used to love to watch Payne Stewart play this shot--any shot, really--a thing of beauty!!  I really miss Payne...

DING DING DING DING!!!!!!

weight on left foot (for right handed golfer), and keep you left are straight all the way through your shot.  this forces you to hit down on the ball, and it will check up for you. 

[Feralhog]

Close to the green, as you're describing, I like to use a sand wedge--even a lob wedge if the pin is tight--with my hands forward (delofting) and at least 60% of my weight on my front foot (ball played back in stance).  This causes a descending blow--hitting the ball first, of course--w/lots of spin, for control.  I used to love to watch Payne Stewart play this shot--any shot, really--a thing of beauty!!  I really miss Payne...

DING DING DING DING!!!!!!

weight on left foot (for right handed golfer), and keep you left are straight all the way through your shot.  this forces you to hit down on the ball, and it will check up for you. 

The ( DING DING DING ) bell you're ringing may be the answer for some, but not all.  Dave Pelz is a huge advocate of playing the ball back while extending down and through. Stan Utley teaches a technique that is more around the body or inside to inside.  In my post above, I touched on both, and imo, are two of the more dominating and more popular beliefs going.. 

An instructor once told me, some people see things and aim better linearly, others relate better seeing and aiming on curves, then went on to prove it with a putting drill he uses to help players determine how they should be lining up putts.  For some, the hardest putt in the world is a 6 footer that's dead straight. Pelz and Utley are proven short game instructors with techniques that are totally opposite.  The key for us part timers is, determining which works best for each individual, then practicing the correct fundamentals.  The absolute wose thing a player can do is morph the two techniques. 

[hogfankb]

I wanted to say thanks to everyone for the help.

I played yesterday and bladed one chip into the water. And left a eagle chip 5 feet short(of course missing the putt)

So thanks...for nothing.

Jk. I also chipped in for birdie once and got up and down a couple of times that normally would have been guaranteed bogeys.

I hate this game.

[jkcrunch]

need more info.  Is short chip defined as a 25 yard shot or are you talking about a shot just off the edge of the green with not much green to work with, ie; a 15 ft shot with only 10 feet of green?

Just off the edge of the green. And actually in the fringe I am even worse. I would rather be in the rough than on the fringe. Worst case scenario for me is 4 feet off the green with about 7 or 8 feet of green to work with.

As said earlier putt the ball when in doubt even without a good fringe if you lack confidence chipping then putt the ball.

As far chipping,  practice practice practice I believe Feral pointed to Pelz's thoery it is clearly stated in is book the the short game bible.  If you are more inclined to learn visually then take a lesson from your pro.   Once you have your techinque down, I am not going to suggest one because each of us likes a different style of chipping,  then do the following drill.   Take three clubs PW 9I 7I  hit at least 10 with each club and mark how far they go.  Do not worry about direction just distance at first.   Repeat each set with 3 clubs over and over again until you feel good about the distance with each club.   I will do this at least twice a week even though the summer it lets me know my contact is still solid and steady.   Now on the course walk off your distance and pick the club that fits best. Once you get distance down direction will be the easy part just read the green