Draft Picks to Natl Championships

[MuskogeeHogFan]

This should be a large enough sample size to go by using these 60 Div I schools that have generated the most NFL Draft Picks (FA's not included) since 1945. And for the most part it is clear that the teams who generate the most NFL Draftees are also the ones who tend to win the most NC's.

Now a lot of these teams also have high recruiting rankings on average since they started tracking those in 2002, but the age old question is, is it more the recruited talent or is it more the coaching and player development? I am going to say it is a combination of all three but as it relates to the philosophy and scheme of each coaching staff of each team. And keep in mind, what might work for one program and staff, might not work for another, so I think it tends to be an individual process.

I believe that what draws the best recruits (as it relates to each program) is a winning tradition in a conference that is a top level program and then it goes to facilities, opportunity to showcase their talents for the next level for some, and great academics and a valued degree from a good school, for others. Still others may have grown up being loyal to their flagship in-state school and wild horses might not have been able to pull them away.

There was a time that all of the big schools had basically the same kind of facilities and none of them could even be remotely compared to the Taj Mahal. That certainly isn't the case these days with facilities being the current "arms race" in big time college football.

In any case, here are the programs that I could find with the most NFL Draftees over the last 70 years, what they have averaged per year over that time and how many NC's (either awarded unanimously or in part) each school has been credited with over that time.

Is there a correlation? Please, discuss.
 
Rank                      All time Drafted Since 1945      Draft P/Yr     NC's Full/Partial(Since 1945)
1   USC                              493                               7.04                               11
2   Notre Dame                   486                               6.94                               12
3   Ohio State                     418                               5.97                               13
4   Oklahoma                      373                               5.33                               16
5   Nebraska                       353                               5.04                               11
6   Michigan                        348                               4.97                                6
7   Penn State                     338                               4.83                                5
8   Tennessee                      337                               4.81                                5
8   Texas                             337                               4.81                                6
10   Alabama                       326                               4.66                               14
11   Miami (FL)                    325                               4.64                                8
12   Florida                          324                               4.63                                5
13   Louisiana State              315                               4.50                                5
14   Georgia                         311                               4.44                                3
15   Michigan State               303                               4.33                                6
15   UCLA                             303                               4.33                                1
17   Washington                    285                               4.07                                4
18   Purdue                           277                               3.96                                0
19   Pittsburgh                      272                               3.89                                2
20   Texas A&M                     271                               3.87                                0
21   Wisconsin                      268                               3.83                                0
22   Colorado                        266                               3.80                                1
23   Auburn                          262                               3.74                                4
23   Minnesota                      262                               3.74                                1
25   Arkansas                        258                               3.69                                2
26   Florida State                   256                               3.66                                7
27   Stanford                         249                               3.56                                0
28   Iowa                              245                               3.50                                3
29   Illinois                            241                               3.44                                1
30   Arizona State                  239                               3.41                                2
31   Baylor                            229                               3.27                                0
31   Clemson                         229                               3.27                                1
33   California                        228                               3.26                                0
34   Mississippi                       227                               3.24                                3
35   North Carolina                 226                               3.23                                0
36   Oregon                           212                               3.03                                0
37   Georgia Tech                   211                               3.01                                4
38   Maryland                         209                               2.99                                2
38   Missouri                          209                               2.99                                2
40   Boston College                 198                               2.83                                0
41   South Carolina                 193                               2.76                                0
41   Syracuse                         193                               2.76                                1
43   Kentucky                         191                               2.73                                1
44   Washington State             187                               2.67                                0
45   Mississippi State               185                               2.64                                0
45   Texas Christian                 185                               2.64                                1
47   West Virginia                    181                               2.59                                0
48   Arizona                            178                               2.54                                0
49   Northwestern                    175                               2.50                                0
50   Tulsa                               169                               2.41                                0
51   Houston                           166                               2.37                                0
51   Kansas                             166                               2.37                                0
51   Southern Methodist           166                               2.37                                2
54   Indiana                            162                               2.31                                0
55   Oregon State                    159                               2.27                                0
56   Virginia                            158                               2.26                                0
57   North Carolina State          154                               2.20                                0
57   Oklahoma State                154                               2.20                                1
59   Duke                                153                               2.19                                0
60   San Diego State                151                               2.16                                0
60   Texas Tech                       151                               2.16                                0

[Inhogswetrust]

Those Oklahomo and Miami players had to take a pay cut to get to the NFL.............................

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Those Oklahomo players had to take a pay cut to get to the NFL.............................

In benefits, not money. Trust me, they were above reproach for the most part, until they started stepping over the line. Then things came tumbling down.

Here is one of the most wasted talents from the Bud Wilkinson era. Yeah, they had misfits even back then. I think you will find this an interesting story, though I don't want to focus on Oklahoma too much in this thread because that isn't necessarily what it is about, but instead all of the teams.

http://www.pardonpower.com/2010/03/very-colorful-joe-don-looney.html

[Inhogswetrust]

In benefits, not money. Trust me, they were above reproach for the most part, until they started stepping over the line. Then things came tumbling down.

Here is one of the most wasted talents from the Bud Wilkinson era. Yeah, they had misfits even back then. I think you will find this an interesting story, though I don't want to focus on Oklahoma too much in this thread because that isn't necessarily what it is about, but instead all of the teams.

http://www.pardonpower.com/2010/03/very-colorful-joe-don-looney.html

Barry wasn't the first coach to bend the rules a lot in Norman.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Barry wasn't the first coach to bend the rules a lot in Norman.

As evidenced by that article, but even Wilkinson got his gut full pretty quickly. The sad thing is, this young man wasted a God given talent and no one seemed to be able to help him get back on track.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

On another note, getting back to the list, Arkansas comes in at #25 since 1945.

[GoHogs1091]

Barry wasn't the first coach to bend the rules a lot in Norman.

With the exceptions of Jim Mackenzie (who tragically died of a heart attack), Gary Gibbs, and Brent Venables, the OU Football Program has basically been a national embarrassment in regards to their Coaches.

Regarding the statistical data, some football programs produce a lot of 3rd Round through 6th Round draft picks.  Some football programs produce a lot of 1st Round through 2nd Round draft picks.  What is better, having a lot draft picks, even though they are below average later round draft picks, or having a lot of earlier round draft picks?

More than likely, the football programs that have a lot of earlier round draft picks are going to be in a better position to be consistently long-term elite.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

With the exceptions of Jim Mackenzie (who tragically died of a heart attack), Gary Gibbs, and Brent Venables, the OU Football Program has basically been a national embarrassment in regards to their Coaches.

Regarding the statistical data, some football programs produce a lot of 3rd Round through 6th Round draft picks.  Some football programs produce a lot of 1st Round through 2nd Round draft picks.  What is better, having a lot draft picks, even though they are below average later round draft picks, or having a lot of earlier round draft picks?

More than likely, the football programs that have a lot of earlier round draft picks are going to be in a better position to be consistently long-term elite.

You certainly had to find some way to take up for your favorites given Clemson's ranking below Arkansas. I know that list must be painful for you given how much you love Clemson and Venables. But take heart, that list spans 70 years not the last 4-5.

[WorfHog]

On another note, getting back to the list, Arkansas comes in at #25 since 1945.

I think we're due for another one soon.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I think we're due for another one soon.

We are #25 in total draft picks, not NC's. But you are right, I think in time, we will get there.

[LZH]

You certainly had to find some way to take up for your favorites given Clemson's ranking below Arkansas. I know that list must be painful for you given how much you love Clemson and Venables. But take heart, that list spans 70 years not the last 4-5.

Ha!  1091 is such a trip....have you ever seen anything like it?

[thirrdegreetusker]

In benefits, not money. Trust me, they were above reproach for the most part, until they started stepping over the line. Then things came tumbling down.

Here is one of the most wasted talents from the Bud Wilkinson era. Yeah, they had misfits even back then. I think you will find this an interesting story, though I don't want to focus on Oklahoma too much in this thread because that isn't necessarily what it is about, but instead all of the teams.

http://www.pardonpower.com/2010/03/very-colorful-joe-don-looney.html

In his book, "A Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football", Paul Zimmerman wrote quite a bit about Joe Don Looney.

Looney had a "one last chance" stint with the Saints, but got in trouble because his dog got inside a fence, and killed some chickens. One wag said, "Ironic. The kid looked like he finally got straightened out, and then the dog went bad."

[GoHogs1091]

You certainly had to find some way to take up for your favorites given Clemson's ranking below Arkansas. I know that list must be painful for you given how much you love Clemson and Venables. But take heart, that list spans 70 years not the last 4-5.

I wasn't really thinking about Clemson.  Clemson does though win a lot games despite the fact that they haven't had as many draft picks as other programs.

The programs such as Alabama, LSU, and Florida State have a lot of earlier round draft picks, and therefore, it is not surprising that they are in a position of being a consistent long-term elite program.  If those 3 programs had more later round draft picks instead of earlier round draft picks, then they probably wouldn't be long-term elite.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I wasn't really thinking about Clemson.  Clemson does though win a lot games despite the fact that they haven't had as many draft picks as other programs.

The programs such as Alabama, LSU, and Florida State have a lot of earlier round draft picks, and therefore, it is not surprising that they are in a position of being a consistent long-term elite program.  If those 3 programs had more later round draft picks instead of earlier round draft picks, then they probably wouldn't be long-term elite.

I think now we are picking gnat shite out of pepper. My post referenced your tendency to take any opportunity (even when it isn't necessarily applicable) to try to work UCA, Clemson, Gary Gibbs or Brent Venables into the discussion. This has to be an attempt at trolling and finding a way to "brand" yourself on this board, and you have been successful in doing so.

As far as numbers of 1st round or later round draft picks goes in terms of relevancy to winning or being named NC's, I'm not sure that really matters. If I had six 4th and 5th round draft picks on a team playing a team with six 2nd and 3rd round picks, I'm not sure which team would win. Too many variables at play.

Point is, the teams who over a long period of time have generated more NFL Draftees have won more NC's. And by the way, the original post wasn't intended to be a slight to the Clemson Tigers. They have earned their ranking on that list.

[presidenthog]

Ha!  1091 is such a trip....have you ever seen anything like it?

I personally love it. for a while I thought it was an amazing troll job because he never broke character but now I just think he loves the guy. I also really liked the guy who would always appear anytime duwop was mentioned and made sure to say "duwop is a safety" greatest troll job ever.

[GoHogs1091]

I think now we are picking gnat shite out of pepper. My post referenced your tendency to take any opportunity (even when it isn't necessarily applicable) to try to work UCA, Clemson, Gary Gibbs or Brent Venables into the discussion. This has to be an attempt at trolling and finding a way to "brand" yourself on this board, and you have been successful in doing so.

As far as numbers of 1st round or later round draft picks goes in terms of relevancy to winning or being named NC's, I'm not sure that really matters. If I had six 4th and 5th round draft picks on a team playing a team with six 2nd and 3rd round picks, I'm not sure which team would win. Too many variables at play.

Point is, the teams who over a long period of time have generated more NFL Draftees have won more NC's. And by the way, the original post wasn't intended to be a slight to the Clemson Tigers. They have earned their ranking on that list.

It matters.  Teams who predominately have players who will be earlier round draft picks will on average win about 7 out of 10 times against teams (such as us) who predominately have players who will be later round draft picks.  It explains why we never consistently win against LSU, but we do win against them ever-now-and-then.

I am not going to even talk about our current streak against Alabama.

[Hognspace]

It would be huge amount of work, but It would be even clearer to see the picks that translated into players in the NFL.  Maybe just pick out the probowlers drafted or something like that.  Arkansas will have a very difficult time winning a NC in the current climate in college football because we don't have enough TV sets to secure a fair officiated game.  The officials protect the teams with the TV SCREENS, not only in the SEC, but the country.  And in all sports...

[urkillnmesmalls]

It would be huge amount of work, but It would be even clearer to see the picks that translated into players in the NFL.  Maybe just pick out the probowlers drafted or something like that.  Arkansas will have a very difficult time winning a NC in the current climate in college football because we don't have enough TV sets to secure a fair officiated game.  The officials protect the teams with the TV SCREENS, not only in the SEC, but the country.  And in all sports...

I think in some instances this is true.  But the SEC's officiating history tends to be protective of the teams that are excelling, regardless of their "tradition."  It's all about who's doing well at the time.  Otherwise, there's no way they allow Auburn under Cam to come back from 21 pts down versus Bama to go on to ultimately win the NC.  But to support your theory, they sure did seem to "protect" Auburn in their game against us.

But...in direct opposition to your theory, I think at times even officials get caught up in the "underdog" effect.  It's particularly true in boxing when you have a crowd favoring one fighter.  Leonard wasn't even close to beating Hagler, but Leonard was a master at making strong finishes at the end of rounds, and using enough flash to get the crowd to react.  If you watched the fight back, Hagler landed at almost a 2:1 ratio of significant punches, yet lost the fight. 

I've seen MANY football games where one team is making a comeback and there is blatant holding on every play that is never called.  Those "no calls" are one of the most impactful things in football games IMO.     

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It would be huge amount of work, but It would be even clearer to see the picks that translated into players in the NFL.  Maybe just pick out the probowlers drafted or something like that.  Arkansas will have a very difficult time winning a NC in the current climate in college football because we don't have enough TV sets to secure a fair officiated game.  The officials protect the teams with the TV SCREENS, not only in the SEC, but the country.  And in all sports...

You can't just pick out the Pro Bowlers because some of that is a popularity contest and there are a lot of really good NFL players that either get selected once or even never for a Pro Bowl.

As for the protectionism you suggest, I am sure that there is some of this that might go on, but that is why you just have to play good enough to not only beat the team you are playing, but the Zebras as well. Nobody said it was going to be easy.