NFL farm system

[snoop hawgy hawg]

Coaches in the pros have been complaining that not enough high school and college coaches run the pro-style, they all run spread which as we all know involves your coach calling all plays, simple routes, not reading defense and more often than not, no changing plays at the line which leaves NFL coaches and GMs very little NFL ready QB talent to pick from. Some people are saying all 32 owners should start A farming system, like "Minor league " football..thoughts? #woopig :razorback:

[BPsTheMan]

[Stewhog 11]

Snoop, you've gotta take it easy man.

[thirrdegreetusker]

NFL coaches have had a ridiculously poor record of evaluating QB talent, all through history. Makes no difference what offense the college runs.

Unitas? cut by Pittsburg in training camp

Brady? Every NFL team had five chances to draft him, and passed.

Montana? Every NFL team had two chances to draft him, and passed.

Leaf? Jamarcus? Couch? Akili Smith? Cade McCown? First-round picks.

[demonHOG1013]

They do have a farm system. Its called Arena Football.  Worked pretty good for Kurt Warner, among others.

[transplant]

Snoop, you've gotta take it easy man.

Snoop, their just being mean to you.  For a more compassionate crowd try asking the fellas at http://woopig.net/board/index.php

[Vantage 8 dude]

They do have a farm system. Its called Arena Football.  Worked pretty good for Kurt Warner, among others.

Well despite complaints to the contrary the NFL does have a farm system: It's called college football. While some of the coaches might not be especially pleased with some of the offenses being run in college, the vast majority of players, as we should remember, aren't QBs. If a signal caller needs to be "schooled" in more NFL type offenses then let the team(s) who draft them do the teaching.

Bottom line is the "league" doesn't have a damn thing to complain about. If they're unhappy then set up a minor league farm system similar to baseball and pay the players for their development. Otherwise they're gripping about zero.

[Pigsknuckles]

Sorry-way off topic. That was a really fine show. Snotty Roger put together a fine presentation for the most recent Wall tour. Sucks that David wasn't there to do the solo on this song, but that's water long passed under the bridge. Roger was quite self deprecating and contrite about his past behavior, and ingratiated himself well to the audience. Would like to see it again if it ever comes around again.

[navyhog24]

The system is perfect the way it is. They don't need to mess with it.

[rzrbaxfan]

The had a farm system.  It was called NFL Europe.  Here is a list of the top 10 QB's from NFL Europe, their NFL-E QB rating, and their NFL QB rating from their days in the real league.

1.  Danny Wuerffel, 107.2,  56.4
2.  David Archer, 107.0, 61.9
3.  Rohan Davey, 105.6, 56.5
4.  Jim Arellanes, 99.8, 0
5.  J.T. O'Sullivan, 99.2, 0
6.  Reggie Slack, 98.2, 0
7.  Dave Ragone, 97.5, 47.4
8.  Gibran Hamdan, 96.9, 58.3
9.  Craig Nall, 95.9, 139.4
10.  Jonathan Quinn, 95.2, 60.4

Link: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~maxymuk/home/passing/qbeurope.html

The only reason the NFL would consider a fame league is if they thought it would make money.

[presidenthog]

The had a farm system.  It was called NFL Europe.  Here is a list of the top 10 QB's from NFL Europe, their NFL-E QB rating, and their NFL QB rating from their days in the real league.

1.  Danny Wuerffel, 107.2,  56.4
2.  David Archer, 107.0, 61.9
3.  Rohan Davey, 105.6, 56.5
4.  Jim Arellanes, 99.8, 0
5.  J.T. O'Sullivan, 99.2, 0
6.  Reggie Slack, 98.2, 0
7.  Dave Ragone, 97.5, 47.4
8.  Gibran Hamdan, 96.9, 58.3
9.  Craig Nall, 95.9, 139.4
10.  Jonathan Quinn, 95.2, 60.4

Link: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~maxymuk/home/passing/qbeurope.html

The only reason the NFL would consider a fame league is if they thought it would make money.

Funny that the second lowest has a seriously impressive qbr in the real league.

[rzrbaxfan]

Funny that the second lowest has a seriously impressive qbr in the real league.

Craig was a statistical outlier for sure.  He got his stats in mop up duty as a backup for Farve in 2004.  Never started and only played in a handful of games. Aside from an injury, there was really nothing that held him back.  I found an article written about 5 years ago that said "he's still better than at least 20 QB's on NFL rosters today".  Not sure why he didn't pan out.

[NaturalStateReb]

The had a farm system.  It was called NFL Europe.  Here is a list of the top 10 QB's from NFL Europe, their NFL-E QB rating, and their NFL QB rating from their days in the real league.

1.  Danny Wuerffel, 107.2,  56.4
2.  David Archer, 107.0, 61.9
3.  Rohan Davey, 105.6, 56.5
4.  Jim Arellanes, 99.8, 0
5.  J.T. O'Sullivan, 99.2, 0
6.  Reggie Slack, 98.2, 0
7.  Dave Ragone, 97.5, 47.4
8.  Gibran Hamdan, 96.9, 58.3
9.  Craig Nall, 95.9, 139.4
10.  Jonathan Quinn, 95.2, 60.4

Link: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~maxymuk/home/passing/qbeurope.html

The only reason the NFL would consider a fame league is if they thought it would make money.

I think it would make money.  Require that all rookies play in it, pay good money, play in the spring, play in diverse markets.

The USFL almost made it in the 80s with no cable television.  This can make it, especially with the NFL having its own network.  People can't get enough football.

[Hogarusa]

Coaches in the pros have been complaining that not enough high school and college coaches run the pro-style, they all run spread which as we all know involves your coach calling all plays, simple routes, not reading defense and more often than not, no changing plays at the line which leaves NFL coaches and GMs very little NFL ready QB talent to pick from. Some people are saying all 32 owners should start A farming system, like "Minor league " football..thoughts? #woopig :razorback:

I don't believe anybody is saying they should start a farming system.

NFL coaches should a better job coaching and developing

[GoHogs1091]

NFL coaches should a better job coaching and developing

You are correct.  It is like the NFL Coaches feel that they shouldn't have to do any development of players.  The truth is, most of the players who get drafted after the 2nd Round need some sort of development.  It is primarily because at the collegiate level there are just a few football Coaches who are elite at developing players.

[thirrdegreetusker]

It is primarily because at the collegiate level there are just a few football Coaches who are elite at developing players.

Also need to consider the silliness of expecting college coaches to develop talent for the NFL. Who would you want to coach the Hogs?

Applicant A = 65-12 record as HC in college, eight players on NFL rosters
Applicant B = 12-65 record as HC in college, eighty players on NFL rosters

[RT1941]

Coaches in the pros have been complaining that not enough high school and college coaches run the pro-style, they all run spread which as we all know involves your coach calling all plays, simple routes, not reading defense and more often than not, no changing plays at the line which leaves NFL coaches and GMs very little NFL ready QB talent to pick from. Some people are saying all 32 owners should start A farming system, like "Minor league " football..thoughts? #woopig :razorback:

Screw the NFL coaches that are complaining.  High School coaches run a system that helps their teams win and give their young athletes the opportunity to play at the college level.  College coaches run a system that helps their teams win, gives the student-athletes the opportuniry to earn a college degree, and a few of them get the opportity to play as a professional. 

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I think it would make money.  Require that all rookies play in it, pay good money, play in the spring, play in diverse markets.

The USFL almost made it in the 80s with no cable television.  This can make it, especially with the NFL having its own network.  People can't get enough football.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the NFL having it's own network now.  With the explosion of online providers and the proliferation of cable channels, one thing they are all hungry for is content.  Couple that with America's voracious appetite for football, and look at it as a truly developmental league.

I am of the mind that a lot of talent is missed much of it just by chance.  Kid A is a diamond in the rough but because of school, coach whatever is not highly sought after or thought of and doesn't get drafted or get a chance.

What they have to do though is approach it the right way.  Pay the players decent money.  I'm thinking 100k or so average, some could make more, and could make exceptions for stars getting back into playing shape. 

Even at an average of 150k per year a 45 man roster would be around 6.6 mil.  So a full two deep farm team's salary of guys making decent money, would be equivalent to one mid level star.  Throw in decent coaching salaries support staff etc and you may get to 10 mil tops.  Still not a bad investment compared to current salaries.

The thing is the NFL is also bereft of coaching talent so this is an opportunity to develop that as well.  Especially for former players to develop coaching skills before moving to the NFL.  Who else could work on their craft over the spring/summer?  Officials. 

[hogsanity]

The problem with Qb development is that once a Qb is in the NFl he has had almost a decade of playing Qb already. If all he has done is play in the spread, he is going to have to be taught how to read defenses as if he were a HS soph. NFL teams do not want to spend years teaching a guy how to play Qb, especially one they just paid 1st 2nd or 3rd round money for.

Some guys pick it up quickly, some never do. NFl coaches can develop and improve a guys physical mechanics, his accuracy, arm strength, etc, but it is very hard to improve a guys mental capacities. IT is not like a DE, where he may have one or two moves, maybe a bull rush and an inside spin and he is told to go get the Qb or the rb and put him on the ground.   

[thirrdegreetusker]

Screw the NFL coaches that are complaining.  High School coaches run a system that helps their teams win and give their young athletes the opportunity to play at the college level.  College coaches run a system that helps their teams win, gives the student-athletes the opportuniry to earn a college degree, and a few of them get the opportity to play as a professional.

Irony is that NFL coaches are looked upon by the American public as super-human, god-like creatures who are infallible fonts of football knowledge. In fact, college and NFL coaches readily admit that the best coaching, by far, is done on the high school level.

There are High School coaches who have averaged ten wins a year since Jimmy Carter was president.  They never have losing seasons, even though they have extremely limited control over the raw talent available to them. They simply take the players that come in, and put them in a position to win. Every year, no matter what.

[hogsanity]

Irony is that NFL coaches are looked upon by the American public as super-human, god-like creatures who are infallible fonts of football knowledge. In fact, college and NFL coaches readily admit that the best coaching, by far, is done on the high school level.

There are High School coaches who have averaged ten wins a year since Jimmy Carter was president.  They never have losing seasons, even though they have extremely limited control over the raw talent available to them. They simply take the players that come in, and put them in a position to win. Every year, no matter what.

Not so fast my friend. While I do agree the most coaching goes on in HS, a lot of the most successful HS coaches also land in spots where they have advantages. Often they are at the biggest school in a smaller classification, or the biggest school in a weak league. They also never leave those cozy confines to prove they can do it elsewhere.

[thirrdegreetusker]

What they have to do though is approach it the right way.  Pay the players decent money.  I'm thinking 100k or so average, some could make more, and could make exceptions for stars getting back into playing shape. 

I agree with most of what you said. But I think there is no need to pay these guys 100k. If this is a legit developmental league for the NFL, they will play for 50k, all day long, just for the chance to be seen.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Not so fast my friend. While I do agree the most coaching goes on in HS, a lot of the most successful HS coaches also land in spots where they have advantages. Often they are at the biggest school in a smaller classification, or the biggest school in a weak league. They also never leave those cozy confines to prove they can do it elsewhere.

I agree with what you say, in some cases. But the basic idea comes from a quote by Darrel Royal.

[lstewart]

The additional cable sports channels and the NFL Network does make this an interesting idea. But different variations of spring/summer leagues have been tried, and all have failed. Baseball minor leagues play at the same time as major league baseball, and players move up and down the rosters. I think the NBA is somewhat like that as well. You have the CFL who plays their season earlier, and as mentioned, Arena football. A new spring or summer league might be able to be set up with a tv contract, which would give it a chance. What about having the actual NFL teams run a spring short developmental season? Don't they have summer leagues in the NBA with the actual teams? Something like that, but you play the lower guys you have signed trying to make your team, and only maybe play a short season, 6 to 8 games. Injuries and pounding are an issue to worry about, so you would have very few guys playing in this that the team would expect to contribute to the team, but it could give additional free agents a shot. Felix Jones and those types trying to get signed probably would have another shot, as well as guys from small schools. Maybe that takes the place of a good bit of your preseason games, but counts as an actual spring/summer league.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Tom Cable says the spread offense is hurting football fundamentals: http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2015/05/12/seahawks-notes-tom-cable-says-college-offenses-hurting-fundamentals-may-12-a-key-date-in-nfl-free-agency/#32867101=0

"Unfortunately, I think we're doing a huge disservice to offensive football players — other than a receiver — that come out of these spread systems," Cable continued. "The runners aren't as good. They aren't taught how to run. The blockers aren't as good. The quarterbacks aren't as good. They don't know how to read coverage and throw progressions. They have no idea."

"I'm not wanting to offend anybody, but college football, offensively, has just gotten to be really, really bad fundamentally," Cable said. "You look at it and say, 'Well I can go get a guy who runs a little faster, maybe jumps a little higher, that's got an aggressive streak in him. At least I can see that on defense and just start with him. I'm going to have to retrain an offensive lineman that's coming out of college right now anyway."

[rzrbaxfan]

The additional cable sports channels and the NFL Network does make this an interesting idea. But different variations of spring/summer leagues have been tried, and all have failed. Baseball minor leagues play at the same time as major league baseball, and players move up and down the rosters. I think the NBA is somewhat like that as well. You have the CFL who plays their season earlier, and as mentioned, Arena football. A new spring or summer league might be able to be set up with a tv contract, which would give it a chance. What about having the actual NFL teams run a spring short developmental season? Don't they have summer leagues in the NBA with the actual teams? Something like that, but you play the lower guys you have signed trying to make your team, and only maybe play a short season, 6 to 8 games. Injuries and pounding are an issue to worry about, so you would have very few guys playing in this that the team would expect to contribute to the team, but it could give additional free agents a shot. Felix Jones and those types trying to get signed probably would have another shot, as well as guys from small schools. Maybe that takes the place of a good bit of your preseason games, but counts as an actual spring/summer league.

A lot of what you said was incorporated in the XFL.  Although it failed, they did a lot of things right.  They made it exciting for the fans, it was accessible (all of the games were televised), and the football was pretty decent.  They got too big for their britches and started taking shots at the NFL, and NBC pulled out of their TV deal.  Had they just focused on what they were (an off season pro football league) and not try to be so over the top, they could have lasted longer.

If a developmental league is launched, they should really look at some of the things the XFL did right.  Here is a couple good reads on the highs and lows of the league:

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/5/7/5683742/xfl-oral-history

http://mentalfloss.com/article/58829/good-honest-football-re-watching-xfl