With Wilkins' commitment will we still go after Brown or Crawford

[mossfan3]

No complatints here about a guy with 27 TD's as a junior and 2100+ yards.  Just wondering if we only take one back with the limited # of schollies.

[Bomis Hawg]

Very much so.  Brown and Crawford are the top of the RB list.  I'm going to assume that Wilkins is probably headed to CB.

But, glad to have Wilkins aboard!

[club monaco]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

[Boared]

Nice of you to crap all over what should be a great day for this kid.

[Bomis Hawg]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

I hate to inform your narrow-minded mentality on recruiting: some teams get quality guys that aren't getting offers from the USCs and LSUs of the world.

For the record,  Utah, TCU, and UTEP are all decent programs with Houston up-and-coming.  Colorado was in the running for him, but haven't pulled the offer trigger.  Sorry if that doesn't meet your standards.

[madduckdog]

I sure hope recruits don't look at this negetivity.

[HogNuttz]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

I hate to inform your narrow-minded mentality on recruiting: some teams get quality guys that aren't getting offers from the USCs and LSUs of the world.

For the record, Utah, TCU, and UTEP are all decent programs with Houston up-and-coming. Colorado was in the running for him, but haven't pulled the offer trigger. Sorry if that doesn't meet your standards.

A school with numerous recruiting violations, rape cases, and drug problems in the past couple years didn't pull the "offer trigger".  Need I say more.

[Bomis Hawg]

What does Colorado's NCAA problems have to do with Torian Wilkins and their intrest in him?

[club monaco]

I am sure he is a great kid and a fine FB player. But this is a pattern you sunshine pumpers cannot see because your head is in the sand. You cannot compete for the conference title not to mention a BCS bowl with 2-3 4 or 5 star players and the rest of the class littered with guys wanted only by second tier programs. Most of you downplay recruiting rankings, but it has proven to be a great indicator of how the teams finish in the polls. We are consistently anywhere from 30-40 in the recruiting rankings and unbelievably enough, that's where we finish.

[JackJohnson]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

I hate to inform your narrow-minded mentality on recruiting: some teams get quality guys that aren't getting offers from the USCs and LSUs of the world.

For the record, Utah, TCU, and UTEP are all decent programs with Houston up-and-coming. Colorado was in the running for him, but haven't pulled the offer trigger. Sorry if that doesn't meet your standards.

Hey, i'll tell you what.  Art Briles, Gary Patterson, and Mike Price are all OUTSTANDING coaches, who definately have their programs on the rise and are starting to produce some talent.  Now that aint Stoops, Bowden or Phulmer, but i will take it as opposed to fighting against Roberts, Bustle and Weatherbie (ULL, ASU, and ULM, respectively). 

Price has ALWAYS been an excellent evaluter of talent.

BTW, dudley says wilkens is around 6-0 205... not to shabby for a CB

[Hogger]

If Herring approves of his recruitment, I'll go with it. 

[HogNuttz]

BTW, dudley says wilkens is around 6-0 205... not to shabby for a CB

MJ had great size and speed.  There was never much talk of him being a CB.  You need more than size and speed.

[ledhead830]

look, we aren't in the running for many cornerbacks this season.  If herring thinks he might have a chance of turning this kid into a productive corner, we may as well get him and see if it works out. Did you see how bad our corners were last season?  He can't be any worse.

[jhog]

I am sure he is a great kid and a fine FB player. But this is a pattern you sunshine pumpers cannot see because your head is in the sand. You cannot compete for the conference title not to mention a BCS bowl with 2-3 4 or 5 star players and the rest of the class littered with guys wanted only by second tier programs. Most of you downplay recruiting rankings, but it has proven to be a great indicator of how the teams finish in the polls. We are consistently anywhere from 30-40 in the recruiting rankings and unbelievably enough, that's where we finish.

He is the prototype Herring is looking for 6'0 or taller 200 lbs and runs a 4.4  I cannot imagine you critizing a guy with whom you have never seen play a down.  I would think the Reggie has a tad bit more insight & knowledge of a player than you.  UTEP with Mike Price will not be the UTEP of old. 

[Bomis Hawg]

I've only saw one Rivals post-recruiting class ranking of anything below 25 or 30.  I'm sure they are low on YOUR rankings, you guru.

A little information for you...

9 of the FIRST ROUND PICKS in the past NFL Draft were not highly touted.  Alex Smith was not.  Ronnie Brown was not.  Braylon Edwards was not.  Adam "PacMan Jones" was not.  Carlos Rogers was not.  DeMarcus Ware was not, he was the #575 DL out of HS.  Thomas Davis was not.  Erasmus James was not, he was the #578 DL out of HS.  And, Mark Clayton was not.  All of those guys are doing well for themselves.  Half of the Top 10 were not, so I guess that's not good enough for you.

I'll take a look at some of the BCS teams.  Auburn, from the SEC, will be first.  I already mentioned Ronnie Brown (#78 RB) and Carlos Rogers (#171 WR; played CB).  How about another top player from that team -- SS Junior Rosegreen (#106 DB).  Tommy Jackson was 1st Team SEC -- and he was #137 OL out of HS.

OK, lets go to the Big XII -- Oklahoma.  I already mentioned Mark Clayton (#85 WR out of HS).  Larry Birdine, HM Big XII, was #80 out of HS.  OG Kelvin Chaisson was #205 out of HS, and has been called by Stoops as the best OG that they've had.  Another Big XII BCS team was Texs.  Brian Robison was #84 out of HS, HM Big XII.  Michael Huff, top CB at Texas, was #134 DB out of HS.  Who was the best WR last year after everyone left?  Tony Jeffery who was #57 QB out of HS. 

The surprise of the Big East was Virginia Tech, who went to the Sugar Bowl.  The duo that replaced Kevin Jones were Cedric Humes (#51 out of HS; 605 yards) and Mike Imoh (#78; 720 yards).  1st Team All-ACC DE Darryl Tapp was #71 LB out of HS.  They will have a 4-year starter on the OL in LT Jimmy Martin (#238 out of HS).

Pittsburgh made it to the Fiesta Bowl.  Darrell Revis was a True Frosh, and played very well as the #52 DB.  WR Greg Lee had over 1,000 yards.  He was the #157 DB out of HS.  NT Vince Crochunis was #373 out of HS, 1st Team Big East.  Dan Stevens, DT (#109 out of HS), was 2nd Team Big East.

Utah made the jump to a BCS Bowl.  I mentioned Alex Smith (#146 QB in HS).  Morgan Scally was on the All-MWC teams two years in a row (1st team; and 2nd Team).  He was #245 RB.  Sione Ouha was a third round pick.  He was #326 OL.  Chris Kemoeatu was a NFL Draft pick; 3 year starter; and 1st Team All-MWC (and HM the year before).  Here's one for you, a 2 year starter, Makai Aalona was #560 then went on a 2 year mission and still managed to be HM All-MWC his final year.

Michigan made another run at the Rose Bowl.  I already mention Braylon Edwards (#71 WR).  They are (along with USC) are the two teams from BCS bowls last year that doesn't have many less-touted guys that had major impacts to them making a BCS bowl.

[CarolinaHog1176]

I've only saw one Rivals post-recruiting class ranking of anything below 25 or 30. I'm sure they are low on YOUR rankings, you guru.

A little information for you...

9 of the FIRST ROUND PICKS in the past NFL Draft were not highly touted. Alex Smith was not. Ronnie Brown was not. Braylon Edwards was not. Adam "PacMan Jones" was not. Carlos Rogers was not. DeMarcus Ware was not, he was the #575 DL out of HS. Thomas Davis was not. Erasmus James was not, he was the #578 DL out of HS. And, Mark Clayton was not. All of those guys are doing well for themselves. Half of the Top 10 were not, so I guess that's not good enough for you.

I'll take a look at some of the BCS teams. Auburn, from the SEC, will be first. I already mentioned Ronnie Brown (#78 RB) and Carlos Rogers (#171 WR; played CB). How about another top player from that team -- SS Junior Rosegreen (#106 DB). Tommy Jackson was 1st Team SEC -- and he was #137 OL out of HS.

OK, lets go to the Big XII -- Oklahoma. I already mentioned Mark Clayton (#85 WR out of HS). Larry Birdine, HM Big XII, was #80 out of HS. OG Kelvin Chaisson was #205 out of HS, and has been called by Stoops as the best OG that they've had. Another Big XII BCS team was Texs. Brian Robison was #84 out of HS, HM Big XII. Michael Huff, top CB at Texas, was #134 DB out of HS. Who was the best WR last year after everyone left? Tony Jeffery who was #57 QB out of HS.

The surprise of the Big East was Virginia Tech, who went to the Sugar Bowl. The duo that replaced Kevin Jones were Cedric Humes (#51 out of HS; 605 yards) and Mike Imoh (#78; 720 yards). 1st Team All-ACC DE Darryl Tapp was #71 LB out of HS. They will have a 4-year starter on the OL in LT Jimmy Martin (#238 out of HS).

Pittsburgh made it to the Fiesta Bowl. Darrell Revis was a True Frosh, and played very well as the #52 DB. WR Greg Lee had over 1,000 yards. He was the #157 DB out of HS. NT Vince Crochunis was #373 out of HS, 1st Team Big East. Dan Stevens, DT (#109 out of HS), was 2nd Team Big East.

Utah made the jump to a BCS Bowl. I mentioned Alex Smith (#146 QB in HS). Morgan Scally was on the All-MWC teams two years in a row (1st team; and 2nd Team). He was #245 RB. Sione Ouha was a third round pick. He was #326 OL. Chris Kemoeatu was a NFL Draft pick; 3 year starter; and 1st Team All-MWC (and HM the year before). Here's one for you, a 2 year starter, Makai Aalona was #560 then went on a 2 year mission and still managed to be HM All-MWC his final year.

Michigan made another run at the Rose Bowl. I already mention Braylon Edwards (#71 WR). They are (along with USC) are the two teams from BCS bowls last year that doesn't have many less-touted guys that had major impacts to them making a BCS bowl.

damn bomis, put some knowledge on his ass

[DisplacedHogFan]

I've only saw one Rivals post-recruiting class ranking of anything below 25 or 30. I'm sure they are low on YOUR rankings, you guru.

A little information for you...

9 of the FIRST ROUND PICKS in the past NFL Draft were not highly touted. Alex Smith was not. Ronnie Brown was not. Braylon Edwards was not. Adam "PacMan Jones" was not. Carlos Rogers was not. DeMarcus Ware was not, he was the #575 DL out of HS. Thomas Davis was not. Erasmus James was not, he was the #578 DL out of HS. And, Mark Clayton was not. All of those guys are doing well for themselves. Half of the Top 10 were not, so I guess that's not good enough for you.

I'll take a look at some of the BCS teams. Auburn, from the SEC, will be first. I already mentioned Ronnie Brown (#78 RB) and Carlos Rogers (#171 WR; played CB). How about another top player from that team -- SS Junior Rosegreen (#106 DB). Tommy Jackson was 1st Team SEC -- and he was #137 OL out of HS.

OK, lets go to the Big XII -- Oklahoma. I already mentioned Mark Clayton (#85 WR out of HS). Larry Birdine, HM Big XII, was #80 out of HS. OG Kelvin Chaisson was #205 out of HS, and has been called by Stoops as the best OG that they've had. Another Big XII BCS team was Texs. Brian Robison was #84 out of HS, HM Big XII. Michael Huff, top CB at Texas, was #134 DB out of HS. Who was the best WR last year after everyone left? Tony Jeffery who was #57 QB out of HS.

The surprise of the Big East was Virginia Tech, who went to the Sugar Bowl. The duo that replaced Kevin Jones were Cedric Humes (#51 out of HS; 605 yards) and Mike Imoh (#78; 720 yards). 1st Team All-ACC DE Darryl Tapp was #71 LB out of HS. They will have a 4-year starter on the OL in LT Jimmy Martin (#238 out of HS).

Pittsburgh made it to the Fiesta Bowl. Darrell Revis was a True Frosh, and played very well as the #52 DB. WR Greg Lee had over 1,000 yards. He was the #157 DB out of HS. NT Vince Crochunis was #373 out of HS, 1st Team Big East. Dan Stevens, DT (#109 out of HS), was 2nd Team Big East.

Utah made the jump to a BCS Bowl. I mentioned Alex Smith (#146 QB in HS). Morgan Scally was on the All-MWC teams two years in a row (1st team; and 2nd Team). He was #245 RB. Sione Ouha was a third round pick. He was #326 OL. Chris Kemoeatu was a NFL Draft pick; 3 year starter; and 1st Team All-MWC (and HM the year before). Here's one for you, a 2 year starter, Makai Aalona was #560 then went on a 2 year mission and still managed to be HM All-MWC his final year.

Michigan made another run at the Rose Bowl. I already mention Braylon Edwards (#71 WR). They are (along with USC) are the two teams from BCS bowls last year that doesn't have many less-touted guys that had major impacts to them making a BCS bowl.

Sweeeet post...bet you get no valid response to that =)

[club monaco]

Wow. I am impressed. Only problem is that 2/3 of our classes are littered with guys ranked as low or lower than that. Those guys are the exception for most of those teams and they are the rule for us.

[mossfan3]

Very nice Bomis.

[Razorod]

I'll respond. It is more important to look at the class than it is getting caught up in individuals. Every year there are top rated players in HS who really are the "real deal." See Adrian Peterson (OU rb).  Every year there are players rated very highly who are, in reality, over rated (see Gary Brashears). Every year there are "hidden gems" players not rated very highly by the gurus, but actually good players (see the list above). Every year, there are "reaches", players not rated highly but with enough athletic talent so that programs like Ark, Utah and others go ahead and sign them hoping they are "hidden gems," but in reality, their lower rating is valid (players easily forgotten because they didn't get you excited when they signed and then didn't do anything when they arrived and/or quit after a year or two).

I take heart with regard to Wilkins because I think they are looking at him as a CB and that is Herring's domain. In addition, he actually is well regarded, at least according to Dave Campbell's Texas Football Magazine.

[Donald Miller]

I've only saw one Rivals post-recruiting class ranking of anything below 25 or 30. I'm sure they are low on YOUR rankings, you guru.

A little information for you...

9 of the FIRST ROUND PICKS in the past NFL Draft were not highly touted. Alex Smith was not. Ronnie Brown was not. Braylon Edwards was not. Adam "PacMan Jones" was not. Carlos Rogers was not. DeMarcus Ware was not, he was the #575 DL out of HS. Thomas Davis was not. Erasmus James was not, he was the #578 DL out of HS. And, Mark Clayton was not. All of those guys are doing well for themselves. Half of the Top 10 were not, so I guess that's not good enough for you.

I'll take a look at some of the BCS teams. Auburn, from the SEC, will be first. I already mentioned Ronnie Brown (#78 RB) and Carlos Rogers (#171 WR; played CB). How about another top player from that team -- SS Junior Rosegreen (#106 DB). Tommy Jackson was 1st Team SEC -- and he was #137 OL out of HS.

OK, lets go to the Big XII -- Oklahoma. I already mentioned Mark Clayton (#85 WR out of HS). Larry Birdine, HM Big XII, was #80 out of HS. OG Kelvin Chaisson was #205 out of HS, and has been called by Stoops as the best OG that they've had. Another Big XII BCS team was Texs. Brian Robison was #84 out of HS, HM Big XII. Michael Huff, top CB at Texas, was #134 DB out of HS. Who was the best WR last year after everyone left? Tony Jeffery who was #57 QB out of HS.

The surprise of the Big East was Virginia Tech, who went to the Sugar Bowl. The duo that replaced Kevin Jones were Cedric Humes (#51 out of HS; 605 yards) and Mike Imoh (#78; 720 yards). 1st Team All-ACC DE Darryl Tapp was #71 LB out of HS. They will have a 4-year starter on the OL in LT Jimmy Martin (#238 out of HS).

Pittsburgh made it to the Fiesta Bowl. Darrell Revis was a True Frosh, and played very well as the #52 DB. WR Greg Lee had over 1,000 yards. He was the #157 DB out of HS. NT Vince Crochunis was #373 out of HS, 1st Team Big East. Dan Stevens, DT (#109 out of HS), was 2nd Team Big East.

Utah made the jump to a BCS Bowl. I mentioned Alex Smith (#146 QB in HS). Morgan Scally was on the All-MWC teams two years in a row (1st team; and 2nd Team). He was #245 RB. Sione Ouha was a third round pick. He was #326 OL. Chris Kemoeatu was a NFL Draft pick; 3 year starter; and 1st Team All-MWC (and HM the year before). Here's one for you, a 2 year starter, Makai Aalona was #560 then went on a 2 year mission and still managed to be HM All-MWC his final year.

Michigan made another run at the Rose Bowl. I already mention Braylon Edwards (#71 WR). They are (along with USC) are the two teams from BCS bowls last year that doesn't have many less-touted guys that had major impacts to them making a BCS bowl.

I see a common theme in your post; it appears that all these low ranked guys come from good teams either last yr or that are traditionally successful.  What does that suggest?

[mossfan3]

Arkansas is also in the final 3 for William Griffin.  A RB from Louisiana.  His top 3 also includes LSU (offer) and UCLA.

[club monaco]

Look no further than our 2003 class. Looks like there were several reaches, to use Razorod's terminology.

[jhog]

Wow. I am impressed. Only problem is that 2/3 of our classes are littered with guys ranked as low or lower than that. Those guys are the exception for most of those teams and they are the rule for us.

McFadden #1 athlete to go along with Felix Jones,Brandon Barnett and Mike Smith all ranked in the top 20 at their positions. 
Kevin Thorton #10 Safety - Marcus Shavers #17 DE - Colin Tucker #18 OL - Casy Dick #13 QB -Michael Grant #10 athlete - Fred Bledsoe #21 DT -
Ernest Mitchell #24 DT - Marc Winston #26 TE - Petyon Hillis #2 RB/FB  - Marcus Monk #68 (a joke to rate him that low) - Michael Tate #38 DE Vickiel Vaughn #6 S - Tony Ugoh #5 OL -
Cedric Washington #13 QB - Robert Johnson #6 Dual QB
Chirs Baker #4 WR/Ath. - Keith Jackson Jr. #37 DL
Zac Tubbs #97 - listed for all SEC
Marcus Harrison - rated 2 star - Please...

So if we do get Mustain our backfield will consitst of Mcfadden, Hillis & Mustain soooner or later. All in the top two at their respected postitions.

[jhog]

Look no further than our 2003 class. Looks like there were several reaches, to use Razorod's terminology.

I agree on the '03 class, that is what is hurting us. 

[Bomis Hawg]

I see a common theme in your post; it appears that all these low ranked guys come from good teams either last yr or that are traditionally successful. What does that suggest?

Utah and Pitt were at a rather low about 4-5 years ago.  Auburn had success, but nothing really major until last year.  The other six have had loads of it.

The point that I made is in reference to that BCS caliber teams have higher touted guys, while Arkansas isn't getting.  The theory that it takes being loaded down with highly touted guys to be successful or being a BCS-type team is untrue.

[Mike_P]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

Wait till the season is over and then see who's offered him. This kid is a hell of an athlete and if Herring thinks he needs to pull the trigger.....so be it. He'll get a shot at TB but will quickly move to CB if he can't move past McFadden and Felix Jones.

BTW, does anyone besides me wish Baylor, Houston and UTEP would take some of the posters from this board?

[Boared]

Yes, this a huge commitment. I am sure Baylor, Houston and UTEP are tired of us taking their recruits.

Wait till the season is over and then see who's offered him. This kid is a hell of an athlete and if Herring thinks he needs to pull the trigger.....so be it. He'll get a shot at TB but will quickly move to CB if he can't move past McFadden and Felix Jones.

BTW, does anyone besides me wish Baylor, Houston and UTEP would take some of the posters from this board?

POST OF THE DAY!

[Donald Miller]

I see a common theme in your post; it appears that all these low ranked guys come from good teams either last yr or that are traditionally successful. What does that suggest?

Utah and Pitt were at a rather low about 4-5 years ago. Auburn had success, but nothing really major until last year. The other six have had loads of it.

The point that I made is in reference to that BCS caliber teams have higher touted guys, while Arkansas isn't getting. The theory that it takes being loaded down with highly touted guys to be successful or being a BCS-type team is untrue.

No, you're right it doesn't take a loaded team w/highly touted guys. It helps, that's for sure.  And, if you're getting "medium" ranked and lower ranked guys, you'd better develop them.  These teams you mentioned not only have highly touted guys, they get guys that are at least on the radar screen and develop them into great football players.

Monaco is correct though. The recruiting rankings are certainly not an exact science. But more often than not, they are a good indicator of how teams will be doing. I'm not going to go back (nor am I going to field the obvious Tx comments) but teams that generally recruit well according to the rankings generally end up being good teams.  We have in the past few yrs not done well, and it's shown on the field and in the final rankings.

[bigred7987]

I guess some of you didnt hear the story of Hart from Michigan...they were his ONLY Division 1 scholarship....u guys are like football fans who think its all over if their team loses a pre season game.  This is the VERY FIRST step in their developement and u are already writing them off as no good.  Give these kids a chance to show themselves before bashing them

[Cresthog]

I am just waiting for someone to mention the whole Barry Sanders story with OSU.

[tophawg19]

boomis you got way to much free time  .

[Bomis Hawg]

boomis you got way to much free time .

I tell you, being off gives me some time to fill when my time-filler is not here.   Plus, I had the information right beside me.  I'm a research/stat geek by nature, so that stuff is cool by me.  Why I like recruiting outside of the Arkansas ties.

He only had two picks, speaking of Torian Wilkins, last year.  But, the thing I like to see is his speed and I bet some elusiveness came when he scored on one of the INTs.  All teams find players before others do.  I believe it was Michael Tate who might've had some good teams offer him early.  Arkansas got him.  Late in the process, OU came calling and he said no.  He was the #55 DL out of HS, I think.  You think they'd like to have him now since the #1 DL from last year that they got was ruled ineligible?  I think so.

[CarolinaHog1176]

This sunshine pumper has four words for you, CM - Painter, Crowder, Burlsworth and Bua -- all filler material.

ZP!!!  that dude was super bad.... my first trip to The Rock was in '96 against LaTech and I think he was a senior.  LaTech had a RT that was like 6'10", I darn you not.  anyways, I met ZP and his wife a couple of years ago when I was coaching in fayetteville and they're both great people

oh, don't forget Bo Lacy... he was another reach that turned out pretty good

[red mosquito]

I guess some of you didn't hear the story of Hart from Michigan...they were his ONLY Division 1 scholarship....u guys are like football fans who think its all over if their team loses a pre season game. This is the VERY FIRST step in their developement and u are already writing them off as no good. Give these kids a chance to show themselves before bashing them

No offense... but totally incorrect. I lived in the Syracuse area when Hart was at Onondaga H.S... he broke all the state rushing records in New York by the time he was a junior. His junior and senior years he put up over 4,000 yards and 50 td's each year.... those are not a typo's. I watched him play in the state final at the Carrier Dome, and he was frickin' unreal. Syracuse was all over him but he went with Michigan. Of course Syracuse was also trying to get Greg Paulus (signed with Duke) who lived down the street from me, he was a Rivals top five QB and the #1 PG in hoops nationally.

[red mosquito]

I guess some of you didn't hear the story of Hart from Michigan...they were his ONLY Division 1 scholarship....u guys are like football fans who think its all over if their team loses a pre season game. This is the VERY FIRST step in their developement and u are already writing them off as no good. Give these kids a chance to show themselves before bashing them

No offense... but totally incorrect. I lived in the Syracuse area when Hart was at Onondaga H.S... he broke all the state rushing records in New York by the time he was a junior. His junior and senior years he put up over 4,000 yards and 50 td's each year.... those are not a typo's. I watched him play in the state final at the Carrier Dome, and he was frickin' unreal. Syracuse was all over him but he went with Michigan. Of course Syracuse was also trying to get Greg Paulus (signed with Duke) who lived down the street from me, he was a Rivals top five QB and the #1 PG in hoops nationally.

Hart finished his career with 204 td's... an all time u.s High School record and 11,045 yards (second all time to Ken Hall from Sugarland, Tx).

[Cresthog]

Yea I remember Hart being a big deal coming out of high school also....

[jabohog]

This discussion kind of got off track, but I am glad to have the Wilkins kid. Glad he is a Hog, if Herring wants him then that's good enough for me. Taking a shot at a verbal commit because of past history is not proving anything.

Razorrod made some good points about rating the class instead of the individuals.

Allot of the teams mentioned in Bomis' post are successful teams year in year out. When you sign a low rate recruit who pratices against a scout team that has allot of players that could start for most other teams, you are going to get better, or you are not going to be heard of again. Good talent depth and scrimage against each other are the building blocks for successful teams. If you don't have it and you don't scrimage, you usually don't do as well. JMO

[JackJohnson]

Michael Hart was a Parade AA. 

Ronnie Brown was Superprep #1 RB in Ga, and a top 100 player nationally by rivals

Carlos Rogers was a Superprep all american.

Junior Rosegreen was a Superprep all american, and a top 25 player in the state of Florida

Tommy Jackson was  4 star, #16 player in the country by the insiders, with offers from Alabama, UGA, Ga Tech, LSU, Louisville, Southern Miss

Larry Birdine was offered by Coloroda, Mizzou, Ok St., Tex A&M

Darrell Revis was offered by Kansas and West Virginia

Greg Lee was offered by UGA, Mizzou, Wake, and San Diego St.

Mike Imoh was offered by Duke, UGA, GT, Syracuse, Tenn, and Wake

Adam Pac Man Jones was offered by Duke, GT and NC State

Boomis, you are awesome man, but i think you are missing the point here.  YES, i understand that rankings are not all that, but what you are not understanding is that a lot of the times we get guys that are not ranked ANYWHERE!!!  Hell, lots of times we get guys VERY late in the process that are not even in either database. 

If you can sign someone that makes any kind of national list, no matter if another service has them ranked low, odds are the kid is a player.  Not to mention offers usually tell the tell anyways, and, of course, if a kid has lots of offers, he will be ranked somewhere.  Most of those guys you mentioned, especially at the bigger schools like OU, had several big time offers.

[Oklahawg]

Folks, its possible for the two sides here to use the same recruit as evidence to support their position. This year's recruiting prospects offer at least one example: Rashard Jones of Georgia is a DB we are going after hot and heavy. He's a 5-star in rivals, and a 3-star (maybe 4...) in another service's ratings.

The small-school crap is a misnomer--if a kid can ball, he can ball. Adrian Peterson was not from a 5A metro school in Texas, graduating with 1000 others. Palestine is not a big place.

HDN likes to take "athletes", kids who don't specialize in HS or play all over the place, and fit them into his system where they fit best. He gets recruits with less star-power and fewer offers because many schools pigeon-hole recruits, trying to fit to a pre-existing mold. Its hard to evaluate a 2A CB. Red Richardson and Dallas Washington came from either 2A or 3A schools in Texas. They were all over the field. Schools that size rarely have as sophisiticated an offense as larger schools (tougher to find the skilled players year after year) so the ability of DBs is largely unknown--they don't see enough balls thrown their way to really know. So, they are evaluated down due to the gray area.

We beat Texas in 2003, damn near again in 2004, hung with Georgia in 2004, gave Florida two late runs for their money in 2003 and 2004...all with vastly under-rated recruiting classes (when compared to the opponents).

Since Lou Holtz, UA has never been able to attract the tip-top recruits on a consistent basis. Those with top star-power are often in-state talent or come with an asterisk on their resume. Think Batman Carroll didn't bring some baggage to town with him? Lawrence Richardson had to sit a year, a fact that kept many schools from pushing harder for him. He was a great player for UA but he had to sit a year before hitting the field. Carlton Baker was a prima donna recruit with only mid-major offers due to his character issues.

HDN learned his lesson with Carroll and Baker--he has recruited a better "cut" of person since then and that at least gives him a fighting chance to turn them into something.

[bigred7987]

This may sound stupid but ppl always talk about the "Batman" episode...what exactly happened with him

[JackJohnson]

Folks, its possible for the two sides here to use the same recruit as evidence to support their position. This year's recruiting prospects offer at least one example: Rashard Jones of Georgia is a DB we are going after hot and heavy. He's a 5-star in rivals, and a 3-star (maybe 4...) in another service's ratings.

The small-school crap is a misnomer--if a kid can ball, he can ball. Adrian Peterson was not from a 5A metro school in Texas, graduating with 1000 others. Palestine is not a big place.

HDN likes to take "athletes", kids who don't specialize in HS or play all over the place, and fit them into his system where they fit best. He gets recruits with less star-power and fewer offers because many schools pigeon-hole recruits, trying to fit to a pre-existing mold. Its hard to evaluate a 2A CB. Red Richardson and Dallas Washington came from either 2A or 3A schools in Texas. They were all over the field. Schools that size rarely have as sophisiticated an offense as larger schools (tougher to find the skilled players year after year) so the ability of DBs is largely unknown--they don't see enough balls thrown their way to really know. So, they are evaluated down due to the gray area.

We beat Texas in 2003, damn near again in 2004, hung with Georgia in 2004, gave Florida two late runs for their money in 2003 and 2004...all with vastly under-rated recruiting classes (when compared to the opponents).

Since Lou Holtz, UA has never been able to attract the tip-top recruits on a consistent basis. Those with top star-power are often in-state talent or come with an asterisk on their resume. Think Batman Carroll didn't bring some baggage to town with him? Lawrence Richardson had to sit a year, a fact that kept many schools from pushing harder for him. He was a great player for UA but he had to sit a year before hitting the field. Carlton Baker was a prima donna recruit with only mid-major offers due to his character issues.

HDN learned his lesson with Carroll and Baker--he has recruited a better "cut" of person since then and that at least gives him a fighting chance to turn them into something.

Good points!!!

Yea, the small school excuse is just that, and excuse!!!  I have never understood how we can say the kids in arkansas are underratted and if they would be in dallas we would be fighting for a visit (something nutt and otis say A LOT!!)  The reason being is that Ced Houston and Jeb Huckeba were both Parade AA's with numerous offers that played at Class A (then) in Arkansas.  When we sign a lesser guy from arkansas (Brandon Mayweather, LeRoy Hood) we justify their lack of offers saying people don't know about them, but if they were any good, they would be found.

People just don't understand that in this day and age with all the numerous combines and summer camps, these kids from EVERY small town in EVERY state are noticed these days.  The days of the guys flying under the radar is almost completely over.  Sure you will always have your Demarcus Wares that are 6-2 190 in high school and grow 3 inches and gain 50 pounds, but you will lose your job trying to project those on a regular basis. 

With the camps, you get all their measurables, and that gets them offers, not to mention get them on the watch list for their senior season and if they perform , they will get offered.  That is why i cringe every time i see us offer guys who have been to numerous camps, yet don't receive any offers, even AFTER their senior seasons.

[Bomis Hawg]

JJ....

I respect your opinions, and complete understand those thoughts.  The numbers I gave were combined numbers.  They put Rivals, Emfinger, Scout, et al. together.  It evens everything out in the long run, imo.  Teams like Auburn, Kansas, Pitt, and a few others offer a guy that is a little lower on the radar because they believe he has the tools to become a better player down the road -- recruiting on potential.  I think Arkansas is doing that with a few players now, especially in the Herring mold.

Oklahawg brings some good stuff to the table as well.  Don't forget the Reggie Banks/Jonathan Barry expierences.  The point I made were valid, I think.  Looking at the overall perspective, each services rate people differently.  I think, as a whole, they provide a better scope.

[Tammany Tom]

Arkansas is also in the final 3 for William Griffin. A RB from Louisiana. His top 3 also includes LSU (offer) and UCLA.

Who is William Griffin?

Oh yea, he is a RB from Patterson. I had to stop laughing before I could type when I saw that you posted that LSU had offered him. Yea right.

I can assure you that LSU has NOT offered Griffin and will not. We haven't even offered Chris Brown and he is a much, much better prospect than Griffin.

We already have the top 2 RB's in the state of LA committed to LSU and are pretty much done at that position. There is always the possibility that we might get another RB commitment, but it won't be Brown or Griffin.

There is no sunshine pumping when programs with highly rated recruting classes fail to darken the BCS door.  Before Saban steered the ship in the right direction, LSU was a repeat offender of landing one of the top recruitng classes only to get beat week in and week out by many of those teams with "filler" players as you call them.  Texas?  UCLA? Texas A&M?  ...and for several years Auburn plainly illustrate that there are so many teams who further prove that the scales of measure and merit are completely invalid within the recruiting world.   

Gerry DiNardo had one Top 10 recruiting class. He did sign several highly rated recruits, however half of them never made it to campus. DiNardo had a bad habit of recruiting academic casualties. The classes looked good on paper, but in reality they were horrible classes.

During the Hallman and DiNardo years, 60% of the top 15 players in the state would go out of state to play. I can't tell you how many of our top prospects left for Florida State, Miami, Michigan, and Tennessee. New Orleans area recruits were non-existant at LSU. There was a major problem between NO area high schools and LSU in the 90's. Saban repaired all the bad feelings and perceptions of LSU with the NO area HS coaches and prospects. Opening the doors to NO area recruits helped LSU start winning again.

LSU had some very good individual players in the 90's, but had no quality depth. Injuries would kill us. Saban changed all that started recruiting only kids that were qualified and the depth issues went away. Our 2001 class paved the way to our National Championship in 2003.

[mossfan3]

Hey Mammary tom scout.com says that lsu offered along with Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Tulane.

[Tammany Tom]

They're wrong.

[CorningHog]

yada yada yada!

Great post Bomis!

The recruiting thing is way too complicated to always see who is doing great, good or bad!  Getting guys that have the potential to respond to the rigors of practice, college, improving technique, hard work ethic, all the intangibles, makes it tough. 

A guy can have a 40" vertical, run a 4.5 and bench press 400 lbs and that still does not equal a great college player.  Look at all the guys that Arkansas missed out on over the last few decades in their own state, Willie Roaf, La Tech, Rod Smith, Eric Warfield etc...  We whiffed as did so many other recruiters and coaches.

You have to work very hard at finding men who have a strong will to succeed, talented enough to compete, determined to continue to work hard at improving, character, integrity, so many things!

Also, Herring has probably helped evaluate him and it is great that we have gotten his committment!

WELCOME HOME TORIAN WILKINS!

IT's GREAT TO BE A HOG!  RAZORBACK!  WOO PIG SOOIEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tophawg19]

the intangibles are the hard part to figure . heart character etc . good posts boomis & JJ  both arguments are well thought out and researched .