Guys what about other coaches in other states that sometimes lose their playersl

[thundergraham15]

If you look at the recruit board that was just posted you will see that arkansas is`nt the only school losing instate recruits so what about the coaches that lose these players  what yall have to say now.Is it because they are good enough to be their or what the problem. Don`t be chicken I want to hear what yall have to say about this subject. Or is that they aren`t good enough for the home team I would like to hear some respond to this are as Nelly the rapper say ( Don`t  Be Scared)  hollar back.

[DisplacedHogFan]

If you look at the recruit board that was just posted you will see that arkansas is`nt the only school losing instate recruits so what about the coaches that lose these players  what yall have to say now.Is it because they are good enough to be their or what the problem. Don`t be chicken I want to hear what yall have to say about this subject.

Notice the silence? They don't like to comment when something makes sense. LOL! You make an excellent point and I think it's just part of recruiting. Not every kid wants to play for the "hometown team". This is too funny that none of our constant bitchers can come up with anything to say to this. I love it!

[jhog]

No way we will ever get them all year in and year out.  You will always have a few that want to go elsewhere.  Hell, I cannot blame a kid if he has  a chance to go to a college outside of Arkansas to get away, meet new people and experience new things. If that is what he wants, then by gosh he should be able to do it.  He is the one who will have to live with the decision.  Do I like it? No.  But that is just the way it goes sometimes.  Do I wish they all would bleed red like me? Hell yes. But some of these kids have not lived in Arkansas all their lives.

Now I will say this.  If you are winning or contending for NC then you will get the kids for the most part. But if you are a realist about this, we are not at that point yet.  I feel we are the right path to be in that positon.

[Anti-OtisII]

A lot of these other states have more Div. I recruits than any one school can sign.  Arkansas is just not that lucky and is usually having a pretty good year if there are even 15 recruits that sign with major Div. I schools (BCS conference schools).  That doesn't mean that you can't go out and sign a bunch of out-of-state recruits (which we always have to do just to fill our recruiting classes), but it does mean that you have to work even harder and spend more time and effort to make up for the kids that you have let "get away".

[tophawg19]

the problem is we are losing the better players not just the borderline guys . and it is getting worse each year .

[jhog]

The only two I see that would have made a significant impact is D'Angelo & Houston.  As for the rest.  I do not see it IMO.

[tophawg19]

shelly, brett smith , and rashuan fellows all would start for ark. jones the o-lineman that went to tenn. and breisel [sp] who went to colorado st. most likely would have as well . that's the ones off the top of my head i'm sure there are others who don't come to mind .

[Bomis Hawg]

Greg Jones, of Jonesboro, is no longer at Tennessee.  There's no telling if he went to Arkansas that all of the tragedy and school problems would still have surfaced.  That's an "iffy" one to mention.  James Turner of Augusta went to Tenn.  He was a FB in HS, the same year as Hillis.  He is turning out to be a nice find for the Vols, should be in the two-deep at LB this year.

Fellows, I have a hard time believeing that he'd be starting this year.  Yes, he was All-Frosh last year.  But, the guy was thrown to the wolves.  Same think might've happened at Arkansas.  Some said that Terrence Hampton was more gifted than Fellows was, but he couldn't make it. 

Slick Shelley.  50/50 shot he wouldn't redshirt this year.  I'd say Bret Smith is more of a hurt than anyone.  Personally, I'd take him over Shelley.  Two HUGE misses were a couple of years ago, imo.  They both went to Arkansas State.  I don't recall any flack thrown about those guys.  Jarod Little is a fantastic punter.  Khayyam Burns was the other.  At the time, they weren't loaded at Safety.  He's will easily be some of the Pre-Season All-SBC teams and more than likely be on the post-season versions also.  I say those two and Bret Smith are the biggest losses -- even through two were to instate schools.  Fellows and Shelley are yet to be seen.  I don't consider Jones a big miss.

[Oklahawg]

Talent is talent. OU fans don't complain about Bob (ST)oops only signing 4-6 in-staters a year. Now, if he goes 8-4 this year, look out! Its a no-win situation for the coach. HDN could sign every decent in-state player, have a crystal ball and not miss a one of 'em, and if he goes 5-6 again we won't slow our griping long enough to remember we were begging him to sign in-staters at all costs.

What Ty Graham sees in HDN and Co is what matters. What some kid who doesn't want to come here sees is important to understand--so we can correct any flaw in the system.

We are not talking about this if HDN goes 8-4, or better, this year.

[Porkahontas]

Talent is talent. OU fans don't complain about Bob (ST)oops only signing 4-6 in-staters a year. Now, if he goes 8-4 this year, look out! Its a no-win situation for the coach. HDN could sign every decent in-state player, have a crystal ball and not miss a one of 'em, and if he goes 5-6 again we won't slow our griping long enough to remember we were begging him to sign in-staters at all costs.

What Ty Graham sees in HDN and Co is what matters. What some kid who doesn't want to come here sees is important to understand--so we can correct any flaw in the system.

We are not talking about this if HDN goes 8-4, or better, this year.

Good point.

I think almost everyone would be perfectly happy if the Hogs signed 5 in-state guys and brought in the right mix of players that would take the team to 10 wins or a BCS bowl. There'd be a couple of the usual suspects griping about not bringing in enough in-state players, but if the Hogs became consistent winners and moved into the next level of the SEC (mentioned in the same breath as Georgia, Auburn, LSU, FLorida, and Tennessee), then I don't think you'd see people give much of a crap how many in-state guys. Losing a Ben Cleveland or Bartley Webb would be almost an afterthought if we were to bring in a TE of equal or better rank from out of state and he turned into the second coming of Joe Dean Davenport.

[JackJohnson]

Greg Jones, of Jonesboro, is no longer at Tennessee. There's no telling if he went to Arkansas that all of the tragedy and school problems would still have surfaced. That's an "iffy" one to mention. James Turner of Augusta went to Tenn. He was a FB in HS, the same year as Hillis. He is turning out to be a nice find for the Vols, should be in the two-deep at LB this year.

Fellows, I have a hard time believeing that he'd be starting this year. Yes, he was All-Frosh last year. But, the guy was thrown to the wolves. Same think might've happened at Arkansas. Some said that Terrence Hampton was more gifted than Fellows was, but he couldn't make it.

Slick Shelley. 50/50 shot he wouldn't redshirt this year. I'd say Bret Smith is more of a hurt than anyone. Personally, I'd take him over Shelley. Two HUGE misses were a couple of years ago, imo. They both went to Arkansas State. I don't recall any flack thrown about those guys. Jarod Little is a fantastic punter. Khayyam Burns was the other. At the time, they weren't loaded at Safety. He's will easily be some of the Pre-Season All-SBC teams and more than likely be on the post-season versions also. I say those two and Bret Smith are the biggest losses -- even through two were to instate schools. Fellows and Shelley are yet to be seen. I don't consider Jones a big miss.

Bret Helms is projected to start as a RS Frosh at LSU at G this year, hard to believe he wouldn't do the same here.

Fellows is a HUGE loss- don't tell me a 6-0 190 lbs CB who was all SEC as a rs frosh at Tenn wouldn't be starting here.  I know tenn has more talented corners than we do, so i know he would be one of, if not our best.

Smith and Shelley- HUGE losses- tired of hearing how we don't have enough weapons on offense to attack downfield, across the middle, etc.

Houston and Williams- nuff said

all in all- hdn has gotten ass-raped WAY worse than ford ever dreamed...

[PiggoBitttys]

Bret Helms is projected to start as a RS Frosh at LSU at G this year, hard to believe he wouldn't do the same here.

Fellows is a HUGE loss- don't tell me a 6-0 190 lbs CB who was all SEC as a rs frosh at Tenn wouldn't be starting here. I know tenn has more talented corners than we do, so i know he would be one of, if not our best.

Smith and Shelley- HUGE losses- tired of hearing how we don't have enough weapons on offense to attack downfield, across the middle, etc.

Houston and Williams- nuff said

all in all- hdn has gotten ass-raped WAY worse than ford ever dreamed...

Helms was not much of an instate kid. He's from Louisiana and had more family down there than in this state. He is not the stereotypical instate kid.

And Fellows was not All-SEC as a rs-freshman, he made the All-SEC Freshman team, there is a difference. And didn't the Hogs have like 4 players on the All-SEC Freshman team? Point is, if you play a lot in the SEC as a freshman, there's a decent chance you'll make the list because there just aren't that many freshman starters in the SEC.

Smith and Shelley.

A. Shelley hasn't played one down of college football yet. I'll wait and see how good he is before I fire a head coach for not signing him. And also, again, was he not originally from somewhere else. Isn't he in a military family? ie: little ties to this state

B. Smith would be nice to have, but how much can you complain when we have Marcus Monk, Cedric Washington, plus Logan and Baker as a receiving corps. I'd take Monk and Washington any day over Smith.

[jhog]

Greg Jones, of Jonesboro, is no longer at Tennessee. There's no telling if he went to Arkansas that all of the tragedy and school problems would still have surfaced. That's an "iffy" one to mention. James Turner of Augusta went to Tenn. He was a FB in HS, the same year as Hillis. He is turning out to be a nice find for the Vols, should be in the two-deep at LB this year.

Fellows, I have a hard time believeing that he'd be starting this year. Yes, he was All-Frosh last year. But, the guy was thrown to the wolves. Same think might've happened at Arkansas. Some said that Terrence Hampton was more gifted than Fellows was, but he couldn't make it.

Slick Shelley. 50/50 shot he wouldn't redshirt this year. I'd say Bret Smith is more of a hurt than anyone. Personally, I'd take him over Shelley. Two HUGE misses were a couple of years ago, imo. They both went to Arkansas State. I don't recall any flack thrown about those guys. Jarod Little is a fantastic punter. Khayyam Burns was the other. At the time, they weren't loaded at Safety. He's will easily be some of the Pre-Season All-SBC teams and more than likely be on the post-season versions also. I say those two and Bret Smith are the biggest losses -- even through two were to instate schools. Fellows and Shelley are yet to be seen. I don't consider Jones a big miss.

Bret Helms is projected to start as a RS Frosh at LSU at G this year, hard to believe he wouldn't do the same here.

Fellows is a HUGE loss- don't tell me a 6-0 190 lbs CB who was all SEC as a rs frosh at Tenn wouldn't be starting here. I know tenn has more talented corners than we do, so i know he would be one of, if not our best.

Smith and Shelley- HUGE losses- tired of hearing how we don't have enough weapons on offense to attack downfield, across the middle, etc.

Houston and Williams- nuff said

all in all- hdn has gotten ass-raped WAY worse than ford ever dreamed...

I know Helms brother.  He never considered us, he grew up wanting to play for LSU.

[JackJohnson]

Bret Helms is projected to start as a RS Frosh at LSU at G this year, hard to believe he wouldn't do the same here.

Fellows is a HUGE loss- don't tell me a 6-0 190 lbs CB who was all SEC as a rs frosh at Tenn wouldn't be starting here. I know tenn has more talented corners than we do, so i know he would be one of, if not our best.

Smith and Shelley- HUGE losses- tired of hearing how we don't have enough weapons on offense to attack downfield, across the middle, etc.

Houston and Williams- nuff said

all in all- hdn has gotten ass-raped WAY worse than ford ever dreamed...

Helms was not much of an instate kid. He's from Louisiana and had more family down there than in this state. He is not the stereotypical instate kid.

And Fellows was not All-SEC as a rs-freshman, he made the All-SEC Freshman team, there is a difference. And didn't the Hogs have like 4 players on the All-SEC Freshman team? Point is, if you play a lot in the SEC as a freshman, there's a decent chance you'll make the list because there just aren't that many freshman starters in the SEC.

Smith and Shelley.

A. Shelley hasn't played one down of college football yet. I'll wait and see how good he is before I fire a head coach for not signing him. And also, again, was he not originally from somewhere else. Isn't he in a military family? ie: little ties to this state

B. Smith would be nice to have, but how much can you complain when we have Marcus Monk, Cedric Washington, plus Logan and Baker as a receiving corps. I'd take Monk and Washington any day over Smith.

I agree about Shelley, but by the same token Logan has not played a down either.  Washington hasn't had any better a career to date then smith, and besides you can never have enough playmakers on offense.

You guys can't have it both ways on the players with "no ties".  What does that matter???   If we lose Helms and Shelley because they have "other ties" and HDN shouldn't be blamed, then by the same token when we lose a Darious Walker, Nathan Jones, Jr. or Steven Korte, then he should be blamed...  That is one of the weakest nutt excuses to date on the "other ties"...

Fellows was not only an all sec freshman, but he was a first team all american freshman- how many of those freshman that we played at corner earned either of those accolades, which is why i can say with confidence he is a HUGE loss, and would be a 4 year starter

[PiggoBitttys]

Washington and Smith had very similar years last year. Bret pulled down a few more TD's but yards wise, very very similar(and wait till we have a QB who can throw the ball down field). I'd take Washington over Smith simply because he wanted to be a Hog. They probably both are around the same talent level.

HDN still has kept most of the talent in the state. Fellows was only a 3 star, and Chris Houston(who we signed out of TX) was rated higher than Fellows. Rashaun is good, but he was helped by a good TN defense. We'll see how he turns out.

[Anti-OtisII]

Washington and Smith had very similar years last year. Bret pulled down a few more TD's but yards wise, very very similar(and wait till we have a QB who can throw the ball down field). I'd take Washington over Smith simply because he wanted to be a Hog. They probably both are around the same talent level.

HDN still has kept most of the talent in the state. Fellows was only a 3 star, and Chris Houston(who we signed out of TX) was rated higher than Fellows. Rashaun is good, but he was helped by a good TN defense. We'll see how he turns out.

I do like that Washington wanted to be a Hog, but I really expect to see a lot more out of him this year as a full-time starter.  The verdict is still out, but we would have only been better with Smith on our team instead of Tennessee's. 

Houston was also a 3 star player coming out of Austin, TX.  Fellows started as a freshman CB on a pretty decent Tennesse team.  That has to mean something.  Our four All-SEC freshmen were playing on a 5-6 team.  One was a punter and another was an OL that is no longer on the team. 

[PiggoBitttys]

Personally, I don't care whether we close the fence or not. I don't care if we sign all out of staters or all in staters. I want kids who want to be Razorbacks. And I want kids that will win us games. With our last two recruiting classes, I think we will win a lot of games in the very short future(2006).

Like it was said above, HDN could sign every single in-state kid and if he still goes 5-6 or 6-5, those fans will still want to can him.

IMO, I don't give a hoot where the kid is from if he wants to be a Razorback and is a good player. Our last two classes have been filled with those type kids.

[JackJohnson]

Personally, I don't care whether we close the fence or not. I don't care if we sign all out of staters or all in staters. I want kids who want to be Razorbacks. And I want kids that will win us games. With our last two recruiting classes, I think we will win a lot of games in the very short future(2006).

Like it was said above, HDN could sign every single in-state kid and if he still goes 5-6 or 6-5, those fans will still want to can him.

IMO, I don't give a hoot where the kid is from if he wants to be a Razorback and is a good player. Our last two classes have been filled with those type kids.

this is where your logic is flawed.  The kids didn't want to be razorbacks because the other coaches made them want to be ... instead. 

What you SHOULD be saying is, i want the type of kids that can get us to the next level (SEC champs, BCS bowl), and in turn can get to the next level (nfl), no matter where they are from.   Point is, nutt has lost at least 1 (houston), and probably several more from in state that are those type players, and hasn't replaced them with those kind in the mean time, especially from out of state, IN THE SAME CLASS

Williams- out of state replacement that year- none In state, in the same class- Poole, i don't think so
Smith- none in that class (washington was a class ahead)
Fellows- not Chris Houston
Shelley- Fish? doubtful
Helms- Cody Green? 

When you break it down by what we lose in state, and what we get out of state to make up for it IN THE SAME CLASS, our results are not that good.

[CarolinaHog1176]

guys, this is basic psychology in that nobody is going to make you do something that you don't want to do (at least once you got out on your own).

let me give you an example:
if I was a highly recruited athlete coming out of high school, there would be certain things that would go into my decision... if I wanted to play early, what kind of climate I want to go to school in, if I want to have an early chance to play for a NC, TV exposure, distance to home, etc.  but regardless of what schools showed interest, and how much interest, YOU COULDN'T MAKE ME TO TO TEXAS OR TENNESSEE.

and then all of the people on the chat boards would say that mack brown and fat phil can't recruit because they can't pull in the big one...  just a personal preference, and as much as some of y'all don't want to hear it, there are some athletes out there who wouldn't be hogs if they were the only school to offer.  they'd go be walk-ons for their childhood favorite

[tophawg19]

mack b . is one of the best recruiters in the game just don't do much with them afterwards . Filmer can recruit and develop players . style of play is one of the most attractive parts a kid has to look at . a NFL type offense gives him a better chance to prepare for the next step than a option / running offense such as we use . the west coast offense is the most attractive to the skill players because so many NFL teams use it and it makes the transition easier . most kids think they are NFL material going into college so they want an offense to develop in.

[Anti-OtisII]

mack b . is one of the best recruiters in the game just don't do much with them afterwards . Filmer can recruit and develop players . style of play is one of the most attractive parts a kid has to look at . a NFL type offense gives him a better chance to prepare for the next step than a option / running offense such as we use . the west coast offense is the most attractive to the skill players because so many NFL teams use it and it makes the transition easier . most kids think they are NFL material going into college so they want an offense to develop in.

In fairness to HDN, he is not an option guy on offense.  He used that because of Matt Jones and his abilities.  He at least was smart enough to adapt to what he had on campus, but I think his natural tendencies would be more llike what we had under Stoerner.  That offense is VERY SIMILAR to what Tennessee uses.  We just haven't had the personnel at QB (and WR for that matter) for that style of offense.

[hangfifty]

The "bitchers" as you call them don't answer to this because, quite frankly, we don't care when they lose players.  I wish they would lose them all. I am only concerned with the Razorbacks.  I don't have enough in me to feel sorry when Phill Fulmer loses a kid to Arkansas.  I am too busy trying to compare the one we got to the four he already has.

[DisplacedHogFan]

The "bitchers" as you call them don't answer to this because, quite frankly, we don't care when they lose players. I wish they would lose them all. I am only concerned with the Razorbacks. I don't have enough in me to feel sorry when Phill Fulmer loses a kid to Arkansas. I am too busy trying to compare the one we got to the four he already has.

I really can't decipher what you are trying to say in this post. Are you actually saying you wish that we would lose all in state talent to other teams? and then in the very next sentence saying you are only concerned with the Razorbacks? Maybe I read that the wrong way, but that sure seems like an oxymoron to me...

[hangfifty]

Read it as it relates to the original post, I don't care when other coaches in other states lose kids to out-of-state programs.

[WilsonHog]

Perception becomes  reality.

Take the Springdale kids, just as an example. Suppose for the sake of argument that all five kids moved to NW Arkansas in the last five years. Suppose all five still have faily and friends from their previous home. Take it a step further and suppose that all five of them grew up as passionate fans of other programs, with absolutely no connections or ties to UA. Suppose all five of them sigh out-of-state, with schools close to where they grew up.

More likely than not, HDN would still get fired for not being able to sign them, especially on the heels of a 5-6 season and losing a few other in-state kids over the years.

Why? Because it's fair? No.

Because the perception is that he couldn't sign kids in his own backyard.  Most folks will look no deeper than that.

That perception is what JFB is worried about.

[swinemaster]

Any discussion about losing in-state talent that involves Warren doesn't matter to me.  It is obvious that the coach there is infatuated with fat-Phil and has created a pipeline.  Stop talking about the Warren kids. 

If Helms grew up dreaming of being an LSU tiger with family ties there, how in the world are you supposed to attract him to Fayetteville when the school of his dreams offers.

I will never cry about losing recruits to Memphis.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I guarantee you that none of you guys would blink if we didn't get a recruit whose best option was Memphis.  If he was so great why didn't he go to a real football school.  I'll tell you why, he either wanted to be with his girlfriend or Memphis offered some "fringe benefits".

Cleveland moved to Springdale from Kansas to play football at Springdale.  His family didn't move there because of his dad's job, or by chance, or because they think Arkansas is the best place to live.  I don't even consider him an in-state prospect.  He moved to Springdale to play with Mustain and now he is moving elsewhere to what he thinks is his best opportunity.

We always get about 80-90% of the in-state talent.  Look at the last few years regarding the LR Central kids and McFadden, Hillis and MJ.  I would be the first one to stand up and say we have a problem here if there was one.  Do any of you guys really believe that we haven't won the SEC because we haven't recruited Arkansas well enough.  If you want to win the SEC we have to recruit the entire Southeast and Texas better. Period.

[tophawg19]

but you can't consistantly lose some of the top 5 in your home state without getting better players to replace them .

[The Coletrain]

but you can't consistantly lose some of the top 5 in your home state without getting better players to replace them .

We're not.  I bet we land at least four out of the top five every year in-state.  And I'll take that.  Was there anyone in-state better than Marcus Shavers last year?  Was there anyone in-state (outside of McFadden - who we got) better than Michael Smith or Felix Jones?  Anyone in-state better than Casey Dick?  Anyone in-state better than Jose Valdez?  Two years ago we signed Hillis, Monk, Barnett, Bledsoe, Winston, etc.  Last year we gobbled up just about everyone who was worth it inside our boundaries.  Up until losing Shelley, Webb, and Cleveland in the last few months, all we ever heard on this board was how Nutt did a pretty good job of getting the in-state kids but couldn't recruit outside Arkansas.  Last year he signs kids from six or seven different states, but now he can't get the kids to stay home??  Which is it?  And who's doing the spinning here?  As far as I'm concerned, and I coached D-II and know a little bit about recruiting, no coach can ever keep every kid at home.  Impossible to ask. 

[tophawg19]

those kids have yet to play so we have to wait to see how good they are . the ones we have lost the last 3 or 4 years have hurt .fellows , smith , and probably shelley could start here . the talent in ark. is on the rise and the battle to keep them is harder . nutt will have to work harder to keep them .