Matt Jones vs. Vince Young comparisons

[Pignominious]

I was just thinking about Matt Jones when the thought occured to me:  Why didn't Matt have more rushing yards than VY?  I believe in both QB's last year of school Matt rushed for 600 and VY ran for 900 something.  In the NFL combine Matt was timed at an upper 4.3 while VY was several tenths slower.  Why did Young do so much better?  If anything time has shown us that Matt is even more atheletic than VY.

[mj4president]

Uhh... His offensive line was better and the most important part. He played in the Big 12 and not the SEC. Texas could also pass the ball so the D couldnt just play to stop the run.

[AZHog]

against tougher SEC defenses, supporting cast not as good, inferior OC and had only a couple of plays designed for him. Most of his yards were off the option or broken pass plays.

[pfrg999]

ditto all the above

[Pignominious]

Here is the stat line:

    CAR.  YDS.    YPC.   LONG      TD    SACKED
MJ 83     622     7.5     72(TD)     6        11
VY 155    1050    6.8    80(TD)    12       13

MJ averaged 56.5 yards per game
VY averaged 80.7 yards per game

[Bad_Intentions]

Nutt's stupidity played a part too. Remember Ryan Sorahan got to play every game and sometimes even start until MJ was a senior. Didn't see too much of that though after he took Matt out against Florida, Sorahan throws 2 int's - one returned for a td and thrown into the crowd by Kewon Ratliff - he brings Matt back in and Jones almost rallies us to a victory. RS's int-for-td proved to be the difference and Bua hit Leak late, ending the rally. Shouldn't have been in that position. Sorahan was a fine back up, but I used to get physically ill when Nutt took Jones out and put him in.

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

Nutt wanted him to stay in the pocket instead of taking off when he saw an opening.

[BigHog396]

I was just thinking about Matt Jones when the thought occured to me:  Why didn't Matt have more rushing yards than VY?  I believe in both QB's last year of school Matt rushed for 600 and VY ran for 900 something.  In the NFL combine Matt was timed at an upper 4.3 while VY was several tenths slower.  Why did Young do so much better?  If anything time has shown us that Matt is even more atheletic than VY.

You answered your own question with the stats in your later post.  VY had more yards because he had nearly twice as many attempts.  MJ was injured most of the year, and still averaged more yards per carry.

[Razorback53]

Thats easy cuz we have running backs that barely get over 1000 yards so what makes us think that our qb was going to do it ? I do feel at least 1500 yards for D Mac this year tho

[Rooster Hawgburn]

Where's HiM? This is something that I've put some thought into. HiM... What type of O did Texass run last year? ANSWER... they ran a 'one read spread O' type if the play wasn't there.... Run Vince Run!!! I'm not sitting here calling out HiM. Quite the opposite! I am like HiM in a way,,, I really don't harbor any hatred towards Texass. Looking at our situation.... Compaire our situation to there's.... as far as O phyllosiphy. They ran the spread this year with a QB that could run like the wind. WE used to have a QB like that.... he was not utilized correctly. Spread out the D with a running QB. It's done in HS's all over the country. IMO, Once Gus ends up with Kodi Burns in the line-up... We'll end up with NC's!!! Kodi Burn's is "our" VY!

[Richard_white]

Sorry I thought this was about the American Idol winner.  My bad

[Rooster Hawgburn]

Sorry for bringing you into my arguement HiM. But compairing the Hogs to a Longhorn team is "Hogville Suiside"! I hope that you can grasp my basic point without getting too envolved in the actuall post,,, If you know what I mean?!!?

[Richard_white]

Sorry for bringing you into my arguement HiM. But compairing the Hogs to a Longhorn team is "Hogville Suiside"! I hope that you can grasp my basic point without getting too envolved in the actuall post,,, If you know what I mean?!!?

Are you referring to me with HIM?

NM I am done with my last bottle.

[Rooster Hawgburn]

Sorry for bringing you into my arguement HiM. But compairing the Hogs to a Longhorn team is "Hogville Suiside"! I hope that you can grasp my basic point without getting too envolved in the actuall post,,, If you know what I mean?!!?

Are you referring to me with HIM?

NM I am done with my last bottle.

LOL! No, I'm not referring to you as HiM. I was responding to HiM b/f he blasted me for not having my facts correct.(Being Soused)...

By the way, I too am on my last bottle!  Cheers and Good Night!

[ClubChubby]

The nutt limited him, brotha.

[EastexHawg]

That's easy.  Vince Young got a lot more rushing attempts than Jones because he played in an offense that was designed around him and got the most out of his talents.  Texas' coaches realized they had a QB who was a great runner, so they didn't try to limit his rushes.  If anything, the Texas offense was built on Vince Young's running...and the threat of his running.

Meanwhile, our brilliant head coach did what he always does best...coached scared and made stupid judgements.  Not only did he waste much of Jones' career having him split time with Zak Clark, Tarvaris Jackson, and Ryan Sorahan...but when Jones WAS in the game, Nutt was afraid to let him run the ball.

How many times did we hear "if Nutt let Jones run the ball as much as some of you want, Matt would get hurt.  He would never last the season."

Really?  Did anyone ever notice that other coaches weren't so afraid?  Vince Young ran the ball a lot, and he never missed significant time with injuries.  Neither did Brad Smith.  Nor Eric Crouch. 

What good is it to have a player with an awesome talent IF YOU ARE AFRAID TO UTILIZE IT?  Trust Nutt to luck into having the best running QB in SEC history on his roster, yet not fully utilize him because he is SCARED.

I'll say this.  I can understand why Nutt was so scared.  He knew that if Jones went down with injury his offense was SUNK, because Jones was all that was keeping it going.  Nutt couldn't develop another QB, and he couldn't coach an offense that wasn't primarily built on Jones either scrambling to move the chains or running for his life until he broke down the coverage and was able to get a pass off downfield.

Matt Jones would be in the SEC record book, right there with Bo Jackson, with one of the top two yards per carry averages in SEC history (6.6).  But, there's only one problem.  Thanks to his scaredy cat, moron head coach, he didn't get enough carries in his career to qualify.  A player needs 400 career carries to make the list, and Jones got around 380.

How in the world does a guy who weighs 240 pounds, has 4.37 speed, and is the most elusive runner on the field every time he suits up play four years for you, average over seven yards per carry three times, and not average at least 100 rushing attempts per season? 

It's easy...if your name is Houston Nutt.

[Biggus Piggus]

The important part is the number of carries.  What really sucks is MJ got hurt when he was trying to save his own life in broken plays, not when he was executing running plays.  Jones ran the ball about a tenth as often as a Nebraska option QB.  Jones was underused as a runner, because Nutt never adapted the offense to fit him.  If Nutt really wanted to pass the football, he should have recruited a lot more receivers.

[EastexHawg]

There was an ESPN.com article written by Chris Mortensen before last year's draft.  In that article, among other things, Mort referred to Matt Jones as the best player in the entire draft.

But here's the little nugget that caught my eye.  Mort quoted Roy Wittke as saying that of Jones' 83 rushes his senior season, 33 were scrambles on busted pass plays.

33 of 83 were scrambles on called pass plays.

That means that in 11 games, the most explosive runner in Arkansas history got a total of 50 carries on designed running plays.  50.  That's an average of 4.5 per game...

Jones carried the ball 83 times for 622 yards...an average of 7.5 yards per carry.  Everyone else on the squad combined to carry 384 times for 1,439 yards...an average of 3.75 yards per carry.

So...you have the guy who not only holds the Arkansas record for career yards per carry BY MORE THAN A FULL YARD PER CARRY (6.64 for Jones...second place is 5.62 for Ben Cowins)...

And who not only has the highest average yards per carry of any player in SEC HISTORY (6.64 for Jones...6.62 for Bo Jackson...5.61 for Emmitt Smith...5.29 for Herschel Walker)...

But also averages TWICE as many yards per carry as the rest of your team combined...

AND YOUR OFFENSE ONLY GETS HIM 4.5 CARRIES PER GAME ON DESIGNED RUNNING PLAYS?

How idiotic is that?

IMO, almost too idiotic to comprehend. 

Well, it would be too idiotic to comprehend...only we've seen similar stupidity and poor judgement year after year from the coaching staff. 

We've all become jaded to the level of their idiocy by now, so instead of "incomprehensible"...it's just "standard operating procedure."

[bigt54]

As was pointed out before, in at least two games Matt couldn't run with a bad hammy.
Also Matt was set on trying to make the NFL as a QB, so he stayed in the pocket more.
Also VY had a passing game, with some recievers that made playes, we didn't so when we ran those mid line option plays the defence was keyed on Matt so he had to hand it off.
Plus with Nutt knowing that without Matt we had no chance he was more careful which hamstringed a already poor offence.

[PeayHog]

The fact that Jones dropped back to pass more than four times a game used to make me crazy.  He should have taken a three-step drop and thrown a fade three times and done play action to a seven-step two-to-three times a game and that is it!!!!!

With a player like Jones, he should have rolled out on EVERY passing attempt.  That gives him the option to run after looking at one-to-two reads (much like Steve Mcnair early in his career). 

MJ's strength's were running and throwing the deep ball.  His weakness were reading defenses and accuracy.  So what do we do.  Try to make a drop-back passer out of him...

The  play that best demonstrates this stupidity was second-down and four at the 15 against Texas down by two.  Instead of running the ball or having Jones roll out.  Nutt has him drop back, hold the ball to long (in one hand BTW), get sacked, and fumble. 

I am not a hater (I have always believed Nutt only understands how to use a drop-back passer...see Stoerner and Mike Cherry at Murray) but that used to drive me out of my mind.

[EastexHawg]

Jones only carried the ball 380 times in his career.  That's only 95 carries per season for four years...about eight per game (and again, that includes scrambles on busted pass plays). 

I don't think his hammy was sore all four years.

I read all the quotes from Nutt over the years about how the defense was "taking Matt's running away from us."

More BS and stupidity. 

Just how hard is it to figure out ways to get rushing attempts for the guy who TAKES THE SNAP FROM CENTER ON EVERY PLAY?

I wonder if defenses were ever designed to stop Hershel Walker when he was at Georgia.  Whether they were or not, considering that Herschel carried the ball almost 1,000 times in three seasons...that's an average of 30.1 carries per game for his career...I guess ol' Vince Dooley "FIGURED OUT" a way to get the ball to his best runner.

He must have sat up late every night for months, trying to break the code and decipher how he was going to get those carries for his star...what with the defense trying to "take him away" and all...

I guess he also wasn't scared of getting Herschel hurt with all those carries, either...

[Swynler Durden]

Young did well, in part because of his coaches. Jones did well in spite of his coaches. (cliche, I know)

What I still don't get is this. Why did HDN insist on playing back-up quarterbacks for so many years to no avail and then stop? How many of those guys are still here? None. The one year he could have let Jones play some receiver and develop RJ at QB (knowing we would be the next seasons frontrunner) he chose not to. It would have helped Jones prepare for his pro career and prepared RJ to take the reins the following year. Standard operating procedure for this staff. If it makes sense, for the love of God don't do it. I'm sure knowing he had a two year pass didn't help matters any either.

[SwinerBock]

One thing I've always believed about VY... if he would have played in that game down in Austin, we probably would not have won.  Mobile quarterbacks on semi-talented (much less ultra talented) teams gave us fits (see UNLV).  I was thanking the heavens that Mack Brown was too slow to realize what a freak VY was until AFTER that game.

[MJ2]

Nutt's stupidity played a part too. Remember Ryan Sorahan got to play every game and sometimes even start until MJ was a senior. Didn't see too much of that though after he took Matt out against Florida, Sorahan throws 2 int's - one returned for a td and thrown into the crowd by Kewon Ratliff - he brings Matt back in and Jones almost rallies us to a victory. RS's int-for-td proved to be the difference and Bua hit Leak late, ending the rally. Shouldn't have been in that position. Sorahan was a fine back up, but I used to get physically ill when Nutt took Jones out and put him in.

I think there are some good points here.   You really need to calculate minutes played vs offensive production too.

[MJ2]

There is really no comparison between the two.  MJ was the best.   All the physical measurements prove this out.

Also, there is one other really important point.  VY loved the stage and wanted to be the man.   MJ was never really comfortable there and would try to blend in and not be a showboater.   If he could have only had a little more Michael Irvin/Deion in him, imagine the #'s he would have put up. 

But, I'll take him just the way he is.  You can keep VY too!

[Burnt Orange Sucks]

I was just thinking about Matt Jones when the thought occured to me:  Why didn't Matt have more rushing yards than VY?  I believe in both QB's last year of school Matt rushed for 600 and VY ran for 900 something.  In the NFL combine Matt was timed at an upper 4.3 while VY was several tenths slower.  Why did Young do so much better?  If anything time has shown us that Matt is even more atheletic than VY.

Texass played defenses like Kansas, K. State, Nebraska, Colorodo, Houston, Baylor, O. State, Oklahoma (weren't good last year )

Arkansas played defenses like Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Florida,Georgia, and Texass

[HatfieldHog]

Vince Young had more rushing yards because Texas was hanging 70 on a lot of people.  Matt Jones was a more gifted scrambler and runner, but his supporting cast was several notches lower on the impact scale than Vince Young's was. That's my reasoning anyway!

See ya

[rricha]

ohio state

usc

[Killean]

The top 3 RB's for Texas averaged the same YPC or better than Vince Young.


Matt's Senior year when he averaged 7.5Ypc, the best razorback averaged around 4ypc.


Vince is a product of his offensive line, Matt is a product of an unwholesome pact with the devil.

[rlamb]

Great post Easttex and Biggus. The thing was, no one should have had to worry about Matt's durability (as Bill Curry once pointed out after he floored an Ole Miss Dback who ddin't get up) "this guy is tough as a pine knot".

Don't you know if Matt had of been around to perform in any of Switzer's, Osborne's, Bear Bryant's, & Darrell Royal's heydays, he would easily have a Heisman or 2. 

I shudder to think what Matt could have done running Osborne's NC team when they destroyed sissy-visor boy Spurrier in that Fiesta Bowl.  Turner Gill was good as was Couch, but they were not in Matt's league.

[LZH]

I remember the MSU game in '02 when he had that long run in the 4th qtr. and hearing an old man saying "why hasn't he been playing more?"... 

Jones vs. Clark...Jones vs. Sorahan...

Has anyone else heard HDN's fish fry story about MJ at the Miracle on Markham?  HDN said MJ was so laid back he was 'whistling' before the last drive.  Makes me wonder if MJ was calm, what was our coach's demeanor.

[Rooster Hawgburn]

This is what baffles me.... We all recognize that VY was the answer to TX's puzzle!!! No doubt about it. Yet, most on this message board portray Kodi Burns as nothing more than a "ATHLETE"! I know y'all guys know better. I know that anyone who has SEEN HIM PLAY against Springdale the last 2 years knows that Burn's is more than a "ATHLETE"! He was a "ONE MAN SHOW"! What I would give to hear what GUS had to say about Kodi Burns. My guess would be, he would paint him as MUCH MORE than just an "ATHLETE"! This is a kid that can throw the FB 75 yards! He is more accurate than his stats show (he hasn't had ANYONE to throw to in his entire career,,,  ie...dropped balls). His protection is "spotty" at best! The kid plays under pressure week in and week out! Like I said b/f... IMO, Once Gus has KB's in the line-up... We'll be NC's!

Now, on to the subject at hand. I'm not sitting here saying that MM won't be a good QB. I believe he'll end up doing very well. However, to me... I think he'll end up being the next Barry Lunney Jr.. Now b/f all of you Mustainiacs start going Nutts on me... Understand, I mean that as a compliment. Lunney Jr. is ONE on AR's best QB's in recent history. I just don't believe that MM will be able to surpass anything Stoerner did... With the protection schemes of Markuson Now if Butch is hired next year or the year after... ALL BETS ARE OFF!!! But I am predicting right now that Burns will be the QB that leads us to a NC and Gus WILL BE our OC when it happens. Whether it be Nutt or Butch as HC, it will happen with "Burns" as our QB! JMO...

Of course, that's "IF" HE COMMITS!??!  Cross your fingers Hog fans!

[HoustonDaleNutt]

What you guys don't understand is that Matt was so fast he just messed our running plays up.

It was Matts fault for being so danged fast you see,

[hoggystyle78]

MJ runs better, maybe not quite as elusive as VY. VY has a stronger arm that will at least allow him the opportunity to play QB in the league, however, I don't know how intelligent MJ was, but with VY that has to be a concern. Will VY ever be able to read NFL defenses?, at Texas he only had one read the majority of the time, and if that guy was covered he had the green light to take off, in the NFL he won't last too long running around, too many guys like Urlacher running around will kill him, just ask Mike Vick or Randall Cunningham what happens to running QBs in the league.

[BigHog396]

This is what baffles me.... We all recognize that VY was the answer to TX's puzzle!!! No doubt about it. Yet, most on this message board portray Kodi Burns as nothing more than a "ATHLETE"! I know y'all guys know better. I know that anyone who has SEEN HIM PLAY against Springdale the last 2 years knows that Burn's is more than a "ATHLETE"! He was a "ONE MAN SHOW"! What I would give to hear what GUS had to say about Kodi Burns. My guess would be, he would paint him as MUCH MORE than just an "ATHLETE"! This is a kid that can throw the FB 75 yards! He is more accurate than his stats show (he hasn't had ANYONE to throw to in his entire career,,,  ie...dropped balls). His protection is "spotty" at best! The kid plays under pressure week in and week out! Like I said b/f... IMO, Once Gus has KB's in the line-up... We'll be NC's!

Now, on to the subject at hand. I'm not sitting here saying that MM won't be a good QB. I believe he'll end up doing very well. However, to me... I think he'll end up being the next Barry Lunney Jr.. Now b/f all of you Mustainiacs start going Nutts on me... Understand, I mean that as a compliment. Lunney Jr. is ONE on AR's best QB's in recent history. I just don't believe that MM will be able to surpass anything Stoerner did... With the protection schemes of Markuson Now if Butch is hired next year or the year after... ALL BETS ARE OFF!!! But I am predicting right now that Burns will be the QB that leads us to a NC and Gus WILL BE our OC when it happens. Whether it be Nutt or Butch as HC, it will happen with "Burns" as our QB! JMO...

Of course, that's "IF" HE COMMITS!??!  Cross your fingers Hog fans!

What the heck have you been smokin'?  KB is not even in the same league as MJ, VY, and more than likely MM.  The kid is good, has a cannon for an arm, but doesn't have the accuracy or seem to have the head on his shoulders that MM has.  There is a lot more to playing QB than being able to throw the football 75 yards, as a matter of fact, I think that would rate well down the list of attributes you are looking for when recruiting a QB.  If you want to know what Gus thinks about Mitch, he has been quoted as saying he has never seen a QB with better accuracy than Mitch.

[Buzzman]

Another thing that always baffled me was that HDN never supported Matt in public the way that he should have.  Nutt stated many times that he would run a passing offense if he had the QB to do so, undermining MJ, his best player. 

HDN also made Matt compete for the starting job every spring by naming "competitors" for starting QB, and of course, the infamous starting of Ryan Sorohan over MJ.  The spin is continued by the media, telling us that this was done to reward Sorohan for practicing.  But the way it was handled at the time was more like a slap in the face to Matt Jones.

The irony is that if it weren't for Matt Jones, Houston Nutt would be coaching at Idaho State or somewhere.  The Nebraska job offer; the seasons that ended with winning records and bowl games when MJ was the difference in at least 2-3 games every year.  I was disgusted at the time with the fact that Nutt didn't publicly support his best player.  Along with his underachieving teams in 2002 and every season since, this is why I believe our football program won't rise to national prominence under his leadership.

Maybe Matt Jones shouldn't have won a Heisman Trophy at UA, but he should have at least been in the conversation.  He wasn't in the conversation because he didn't start for his team and his coach didn't endorse him like he should have.