How many of the hog starting 22 would start for

[hogsanity]

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.

[Tick Hog]

 I think you've nailed it other than I think A Allen would make LSU a better football team because they may be able to protect him.

[hobhog]

Not a talent problem

[hogsanity]

I think you've nailed it other than I think A Allen would make LSU a better football team because they may be able to protect him.

Maybe but I was referring to the 22 that started tonight. At least 4 times hogs broke into open field with the ball and got run down from behind. Lack of speed on offense and I cant even describe all they lack on D.

[hogsanity]

Not a talent problem

Then answer the question.

[Tick Hog]

Not a talent problem

Will just have to agree to disagree. From the games I watch it's both

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

I don't buy the recruiting/talent angle. That would mean that we should beat the teams that are less talented (at least on paper) than us handily (Toledo) and we should be able to compete with the teams that recruit at our level (Like S. Carolina) but we can't. We past few years we had a defense that was worse than many Sunbelt/Conf-USA teams. Its not on the kids, its on the coaching and development.

[leroyhawg]

Not a talent problem

since BB has been here, every RB we've had has been rundown on a regular basis

[Ex-Trumpet]

How many of Hogs' starting 22 would look completely different if they had some proper coaching?

[PygmalionEffect2]

Which team?

Bama, probably none.

OM, probably eight.

[sowmonella]

Not a talent problem

Umm  Yes it is.

[phadedhawg]

Coaching ain't worth spit but we don't stack up well against big boys physically.  We have some pieces but we are missing a line on both sides of the ball

[jcbville]

Remember this thread when there's a new staff with the same players. It will provide an interesting view.

[Bonehog]

Wouldn't they be at one of those schools already? 

[rzrbackramsfan]

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.

How do you know?  If Bret is really indeed a bad coach and our program is bad, then how do you know the players are bad and not just a victim of being part of a dumpster fire? 

[Iwastherein1969]

Ragnow and Agim...that's it...all of the others would be on the scout squad except for the Curl kid...he's just a freshman and he can play...by the time he's a junior he'll be as good as there is in the SEC at his position

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Not a talent problem

It is. And definitely coaching too. 

[hogfan870]

Maybe some of our players would have developed a little better under a different coach. And maybe some different players would be playing with a different staff - see Grag and Hammonds.

As long as we are playing guessing games, how about we think about what the score of tonight's game would have been if we traded coaching staffs. My guess is that this would have been a much closer game.

[Tigerloather]

Umm  Yes it is.

Maybe talent, but definitely coaching.  We only had 9 players on the field for one of their TD's.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Maybe some of our players would have developed a little better under a different coach. And maybe some different players would be playing with a different staff - see Grag and Hammonds.

As long as we are playing guessing games, how about we think about what the score of tonight's game would have been if we traded coaching staffs. My guess is that this would have been a much closer game.

If they simply traded coaching staffs, the score likely would have been the same for each coach.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Maybe talent, but definitely coaching.  We only had 9 players on the field for one of their TD's.

And one of ours was doing his best Auburn flop...

[phadedhawg]

There's no getting past poor recruiting no matter who's the coach.  Bert or his staff are looking for the wrong attributes

[phadedhawg]

Speed and strength are killing us weekly

[hogsanity]

For those saying it s not a talent issue, then it should be easy for you to list the players in the Hogs starting 22 that would start for any other secw team.

And just to be clear, BB has shown he is not a sec coach, but he is not why our players are continually out run and out physicaled ( is that a word ).

[majp51]

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.

I think that is a very difficult question to answer, simply because I believe the coaching is so bad. I think that Austin Allen would be a starter at LSU right now. I believe MSU would take any semi competent and healthy WR including a couple from Arkansas. I think several schools, including BAMA, would take some of the OL that CBB has put in the dog house.

But for the sake of argument, if we accept your pre,I've, i.e. no talent, well then that is a clear bellweather to fire CBB, since he is the person that recruited every player on this team.

[RazorbacksFTW]

If it's all about talent then someone explain why Florida State is 2-4 when they have had a top 6 recruiting class since 2014.

Also someone care to explain why Louisville just beat Florida State with vastly inferior talent?

It's a coaching problem not a talent problem and op is an obvious shill.

[Ex-Trumpet]

For those saying it s not a talent issue, then it should be easy for you to list the players in the Hogs starting 22 that would start for any other secw team.

And just to be clear, BB has shown he is not a sec coach, but he is not why our players are continually out run and out physicaled ( is that a word ).

It's impossible to say who would start for another team...they all have superior coaches.  How might they have developed under proper coaching?

[Torqued pork]

Nobody forced Bielema to take the job. If he left Wisconsin without knowing how few D1 prospects usually produces it's on him.

[HiggiePiggy]

Talent is a little part of why we are terrible, but the biggest reason is the coaching. A decent coach in year 4 and 5 is not losing games by 40 and 50 points.

Remember no Arkansas coach has ever went 0-8 in conference until Bielema got here and he is looking more and more like he will do it 2 times in his time at Arkansas.  I still think he finds 1 to win, but I don't know which one that is.   

[hogsanity]

If it's all about talent then someone explain why Florida State is 2-4 when they have had a top 6 recruiting class since 2014.

Also someone care to explain why Louisville just beat Florida State with vastly inferior talent?

It's a coaching problem not a talent problem and op is an obvious shill.

FLA State's season ended when Francois go hurt and they had to go to a TR FR QB that is 6'4 and weighs a whopping 169 lbs and they had to throw out 80% of their playbook.

But you honestly think that the Hogs are as talented as LSU, A&M, Bama, Aub, Ga? Really? OR do you want to believe that because deep down you know they are NEVER going to be as talented as those teams, regardless of coach, and therefore are never going to get to the top of the mountain?

[RazorbacksFTW]

Talent is a little part of why we are terrible, but the biggest reason is the coaching. A decent coach in year 4 and 5 is not losing games by 40 and 50 points.

Remember no Arkansas coach has ever went 0-8 in conference until Bielema got here and he is looking more and more like he will do it 2 times in his time at Arkansas.  I still think he finds 1 to win, but I don't know which one that is.

I doubt we win one really.
The refs and even Malzahn took pity on us this game which is a bad sign.

[hogsanity]

Talent is a little part of why we are terrible, but the biggest reason is the coaching. A decent coach in year 4 and 5 is not losing games by 40 and 50 points.

Remember no Arkansas coach has ever went 0-8 in conference until Bielema got here and he is looking more and more like he will do it 2 times in his time at Arkansas.  I still think he finds 1 to win, but I don't know which one that is.   

The only real chances for a win look to be old misses and Mizzu. old misses loks a lot like the Hogs, slow and small from SEC standards. Mizzu is not very good but the things they do well on offense are a bad matchup for the Hogs. LSU will just run over the Hogs D, and Fitzgerald is going to be a tough matchup for them too. MSU is pretty weak at WR though and their D has been up and down.

[The Boar War]

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.

Sometimes it feels like we're going 9 on 11.  And sometimes we actually are going 9 on 11.

[Ex-Trumpet]

FLA State's season ended when Francois go hurt and they had to go to a TR FR QB that is 6'4 and weighs a whopping 169 lbs and they had to throw out 80% of their playbook.

But you honestly think that the Hogs are as talented as LSU, A&M, Bama, Aub, Ga? Really? OR do you want to believe that because deep down you know they are NEVER going to be as talented as those teams, regardless of coach, and therefore are never going to get to the top of the mountain?

If you don't have as much talent you have to play smarter.  Every successful coach at UA has had to do this because there were always teams with more raw talent.

The key is knowing what to do with the raw talent you have and make it better--and expose the other team's weaknesses. 

A good coach would win with the talent in those anthracite uni's.

[azhog10]

Is this a lame excuse to keep Bielema? He recruited every single one of them.

[RazorbacksFTW]

FLA State's season ended when Francois go hurt and they had to go to a TR FR QB that is 6'4 and weighs a whopping 169 lbs and they had to throw out 80% of their playbook.

But you honestly think that the Hogs are as talented as LSU, A&M, Bama, Aub, Ga? Really? OR do you want to believe that because deep down you know they are NEVER going to be as talented as those teams, regardless of coach, and therefore are never going to get to the top of the mountain?

With a good coach we could have beaten Auburn A&M and we could beat LSU this year but won't you know why?
Even though they have superior talent they have awful coaches ours just happens to be worse then theirs is.

Never said we are as talented I said talent does not matter as much as you shills pretend it does.

[hogfan870]

FLA State's season ended when Francois go hurt and they had to go to a TR FR QB that is 6'4 and weighs a whopping 169 lbs and they had to throw out 80% of their playbook.

But you honestly think that the Hogs are as talented as LSU, A&M, Bama, Aub, Ga? Really? OR do you want to believe that because deep down you know they are NEVER going to be as talented as those teams, regardless of coach, and therefore are never going to get to the top of the mountain?

We may not have position for position talent equal to those teams, but with the right coaching and scheme, we could still beat them - and definitely be competitive with them, which we aren't right now.

How about this, do we have 3 players sitting on the bench that would play or start for those teams - especially after a few years in their programs - Gragg, Merrick, Hammonds all appear to have the talent to play for any of those teams. Our coach chooses not to play them

[hogsanity]

Is this a lame excuse to keep Bielema? He recruited every single one of them.

Did you miss both times where I said BB is not a SEC coach. I hate to mix basketball and football, BUT the reason I think the bball team is going to be better than where the media picked them is because they have several players that would start or at east see significant minutes for most other teams in the league. When i watch the football team I just do not see that level of talent, i see offensive players that cant block defenders and when they do get in the open they can not get away. On D they just get run over and/or aay from play after play after play.

[phadedhawg]

Yes a good coach can be missing some pieces, and scheme around it and get more production out of his players.  I'm not disputing that. 

We do have some good talent on the field.  They are just in the wrong places.  You can coach speed and you can't coach size and we are too small and too slow on the lines to give our offensive time to develop plays and opposing QBs rarely get touched. 

It's on Beliema bc he's the one who recruited these kids but if you plugged in the coach of your choice tomorrow, this team would still struggle.

[jcul28]

You cant make me believe that we don't have but 3 players that would start for other SEC teams. Talk crap about the coach all you want but the players are doing what they are taught to do. You don't run the scheme or the plays called, your butt is benched. You do what you are told. This is a coaching problem way moreso than a player problem. Who knows how good some of these players, including the OL could be with proper coaching. There are quite a few of these kids that were being recruited by other SEC schools. Programs don't spend time and money recruiting for craps and giggles. They build programs to win games.

[hogsanity]

So the talent level of the coach matters, but the talent level of the players does not? That makes no sense at all.

With a good coach we could have beaten Auburn A&M and we could beat LSU this year but won't you know why?
Even though they have superior talent they have awful coaches ours just happens to be worse then theirs is.

Never said we are as talented I said talent does not matter as much as you shills pretend it does.

[hoglady]

FLA State's season ended when Francois go hurt and they had to go to a TR FR QB that is 6'4 and weighs a whopping 169 lbs and they had to throw out 80% of their playbook.

But you honestly think that the Hogs are as talented as LSU, A&M, Bama, Aub, Ga? Really? OR do you want to believe that because deep down you know they are NEVER going to be as talented as those teams, regardless of coach, and therefore are never going to get to the top of the mountain?

I don't think too many fans are worried about getting to the top of the mountain right now - they just want to get out of the bottom of the valley. Bielema has this program at it's lowest point in a long time.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Maybe but I was referring to the 22 that started tonight. At least 4 times hogs broke into open field with the ball and got run down from behind. Lack of speed on offense and I cant even describe all they lack on D.

Hayden is supposed to be our fastest back, and when he broke through the line, whoever number 24 is for Auburn ran him down QUICKLY from behind, and he looked to be a helmet taller and about 30 lbs heavier.  Not belaboring the point, but if that's DMAC or FJ, no one gets a finger on them once they get to open field. 

Also, we look SO SMALL compared to Auburn and Alabama.  It's literally getting back to the point where you can just look at the pre-game warmup and think..."uh oh."    

[hogsanity]

You cant make me believe that we don't have but 3 players that would start for other SEC teams. Talk crap about the coach all you want but the players are doing what they are taught to do. You don't run the scheme or the plays called, your butt is benched. You do what you are told. This is a coaching problem way moreso than a player problem. Who knows how good some of these players, including the OL could be with proper coaching. There are quite a few of these kids that were being recruited by other SEC schools. Programs don't spend time and money recruiting for craps and giggles. They build programs to win games.

Then list the players in the 22 that started tonight that would start for the teams I listed, that was the question posed. Heck, which ones would start for Aub?

[phadedhawg]

  It's literally getting back to the point where you can just look at the pre-game warmup and think..."uh oh."    

Yep, Auburn, Alabama, LSU, A&M, and to a lesser extent TCU, make our bigs looks small and/or our fasts look slow.

[hogsanity]

Hayden is supposed to be our fastest back, and when he broke through the line, whoever number 24 is for Auburn ran him down QUICKLY from behind, and he looked to be a helmet taller and about 30 lbs heavier.  Not belaboring the point, but if that's DMAC or FJ, no one gets a finger on them once they get to open field. 

Also, we look SO SMALL compared to Auburn and Alabama.  It's literally getting back to the point where you can just look at the pre-game warmup and think..."uh oh."    

Yep. How or why people wont acknowledge that is just weird.

[phadedhawg]

I saw Hayden break into daylight and figured he was gone but yeah....he was tracked down in rapid fashion.

[hogsanity]

Yep, Auburn, Alabama, LSU, A&M, and to a lesser extent TCU, make our bigs looks small and/or our fasts look slow.

actually our bigs are just small and our fasts are just slow.

[urkillnmesmalls]

The only real chances for a win look to be old misses and Mizzu. old misses loks a lot like the Hogs, slow and small from SEC standards. Mizzu is not very good but the things they do well on offense are a bad matchup for the Hogs. LSU will just run over the Hogs D, and Fitzgerald is going to be a tough matchup for them too. MSU is pretty weak at WR though and their D has been up and down.

When I first got wind of the new 3-4 defense, my first thought was..."The SEC RB's are going to get three yards of momentum, and our LB's are just going to grab ahold and get drug for 3 more.  I was wrong...it's closer to 5 more, and sometimes they don't even slow them down very much.

Maybe it would be worse if we went back to a 4-3, who knows?  I just know that we have no hope of beating anyone with even a half decent running game, because we are just getting destroyed.  Was I the only one who watched that game thinking, "Why is Auburn even throwing the ball at all?"   

[Hogvillage Idiot]

It is. And definitely coaching too.

This.  No studs to be found in comparison to elite SEC teams and lackluster coaching.  Coaching is responsible for bringing in talent and making it better.  This staff fails on both ends.