How Baylor recruiting is hurting Arkansas

[Sao Ming]

Say what you want, but the Texas Top 100 is not hard to crack when you are a storied and nationally recognized team such as the Razorbacks.  When I see things like this I get boiling mad...TEXAS is our backyard, basically.  There is NO excuse why WE cannot go into that state and start dragging them out, even if they are kicking a screaming that they will miss thier girlfriends or thier mommies.

Guys, I'm telling you, If BAYLOR gets "it" and attracts this type of talent this early in the year (18 Commits already), we are in trouble. 


This article is from the Waco Tribune-Herald
-----
Hill: BU recruiters catch on to summer school beat
Wednesday, July 19, 2006

By Jerry Hill
Tribune-Herald assistant sports editor

Blame it on Mack Brown or even Joe Paterno.

Remember when football recruiting still had some of that down-to-the-wire drama that keeps you on the edge of your seat? With only a handful of players making early commitments before the season, the real gut-wrenching didn't even start until December or January.

But Brown and Paterno started a trend that has now become the standard. By the end of the summer — long before February's national signing date — their dance cards are completely full.

They might save one or two scholarships and have to sweat out some late defections. But for all practical purposes, the recruiting at Texas and Penn State is already done.

Until this year, Baylor never jumped on that wagon. It was a real coup when the Bears could grab a half-dozen commitments before Labor Day.

Well, friends, times have changed.

With Gilmer quarterback G.J. Kinne announcing his decision Sunday night on Fox Southwest, followed by Keller punter Derek Epperson's pledge on Monday, the Bears have 18 spots already filled for the 2007 recruiting class.

Signing day is still 6 1/2 months away. And if my math is correct, Baylor has no more than seven scholarships left.

"It's becoming earlier and earlier," Baylor head coach Guy Morriss said Tuesday. "And when you're trying to catch up like we are, we've got to be the first ones on these kids' doorsteps."

Can't wait till the dust settles

Instead of waiting till the dust settles from another Texas' recruiting rampage through the state, the Bears tried to strike first. And in some cases, they put on a full-court press with deadlines to take it or leave it.

Mart receiver Damian Davis left it, turning down an early offer from Baylor before committing to Oklahoma State last week.

But this has the makings of being one of Baylor's best recruiting classes ever.

Kinne, the Class 3A offensive player of the year last season, was a nice cherry on the top of a class that includes blue-chip offensive linemen Lonnie Edwards of Brownsboro, Courtney Green of Corsicana and Anthony Morgan of Lancaster, wide receiver Romie Blaylock of Cedar Hill, defensive linemen Jacody Coleman of Beaumont West Brook and Rex McDougald of Iola and linebackers Chris Francis of Cedar Hill and Chris Sanders of Corsicana.

No culls in this bunch

All nine are ranked in the state's top 100 by rivals.com or scout.com. Baylor's 2006 recruiting class included just two players off rivals' Top 100.

"I think the kids are starting to believe what we're selling," Morriss said. "This will be our best signing class to date. I think it proves to some of our doubters that we can recruit and we're going to get this thing turned around."

Kinne's decision could impact the rest of the class. When his commitment leaked out, even before the televised announcement, he got calls and text messages from close to 100 players.

"I have a couple (target recruits)," said Kinne, who called Dallas Lincoln linebacker Richetti Jones, a national top 100 recruit and former Little League teammate. "Just whoever the coaching staff feels like they want me to contact. Now that I'm a part of it, I can do it full on."

This weekend, the Bears are expected to add offensive lineman John Jones from Cedar Hill and defensive end/tight end Billy Chavis from Beaumont West Brook. That would give them 11 recruits off top 100 lists, plus two of the best kicking prospects in the state.

And despite some disparaging comments by Texas A&M fans on the baylorfans.com Web site, Kinne is the real thing. He had offers from Florida, Tennessee and the Aggies and interest from Oklahoma and USC.

"If they want to come to my house, I can show them all the offers I've gotten," Kinne said. "And you can tell the A&M fans, 'Wait till Saturday.' Tell them that. We're not going to have any problems with A&M."

Fourteen months from his first game at Baylor, and Kinne has already fired the first shot. Let the fun begin. 

[Sao Ming]

Oh, and then there is this:

Etc.

Southern Cal is showing up on the radar in Texas again after picking up two players last year from the Lone Star State (Emmanuel Moody and Michael Morgan). Defensive lineman Richetti Jones and Stephen Thomas are both claiming heavy interest from the Trojans. Thomas' coaches at Lancaster have been receiving several calls from assistant Ken Norton Jr. in recent weeks. Of the seven listed quarterback prospects that Nebraska has offered, three of those are in the state of Texas.

Pipelines work...

[The_Bionic_Pig]

Actually its 20 committs at the moment and 11 are 2 STAR.   They are welcoming any and all with open arms...Arkansas has to be a little more selective IMO!!

[nwarazfan]

Oh, and then there is this:

Etc.

Southern Cal is showing up on the radar in Texas again after picking up two players last year from the Lone Star State (Emmanuel Moody and Michael Morgan). Defensive lineman Richetti Jones and Stephen Thomas are both claiming heavy interest from the Trojans. Thomas' coaches at Lancaster have been receiving several calls from assistant Ken Norton Jr. in recent weeks. Of the seven listed quarterback prospects that Nebraska has offered, three of those are in the state of Texas.

Pipelines work...

I said this last night on the recruiting board.  We are right now competing with SMU, Rice, Houston, So Miss, La M,... etc for too many recruits in Texas and N La instead of at least going against A&M and TT if not the bigger boys.  All anyone can think about is Kodi and Ziemba (who are great and I really hope they come).

Maybe they'll wake up one day Sao.

[Tusks]

Well the Hogs lost an OL they were recruiting yesterday....John Jones from Cedar Hill TX...so the Hogs have officially lost a OL recruit to Baylor.

[paragould25]

We haven't lost anybody. Until I see a signature on a Letter of Intent, no recruit is lost.

[EastexHawg]

Yeah, sure...Baylor has a good looking class so far...

But look at all the almost unfair recruiting advantages they have there.  That awesome Baylor football tradition...the world renowned red hot McLennan County Baptist babes...the scintillating Waco night life...and the beaches of the beautiful Brazos River, which probably rank somewhere between South Beach and the Waikiki as world famous destinations and chick magnets.

ANYONE can recruit to Baylor.

[Sao Ming]

Actually its 20 committs at the moment and 11 are 2 STAR.   They are welcoming any and all with open arms...Arkansas has to be a little more selective IMO!!

2*'s huh.  What is Brett Moncrief again?  Cam Baker?  CJ Chaten?  Johnny Borkins?  Najel Byrd?  Nolan Hankins?  Do I need to go on?   All teams sign thier fair share of 1/2/3* kids Stewie.  Put it this way, if the U of A didn't sign thier fair share of 2's, we would have truck loads of cleats and pads collecting dust.

[Sao Ming]

Eastex, I don't know how much longer I can take seeing our kids from East Texas not getting thier asses up to HDN camps and on and on and on.  Overlooking the area is a huge, huge mistake...and you know exactly what I'm talking about.  HDN should put a wall up from Texarkana over to Paris, south to Ennis and east to Waskom.  That should about do it.

[JJHog]

Well the Hogs lost an OL they were recruiting yesterday....John Jones from Cedar Hill TX...so the Hogs have officially lost a OL recruit to Baylor.

CF News put out a list of the top recruiters in the country--why we don't get a handful of these guys and blanket Texas and No La. is beyond me.

We are the University of Anna Korinkova

[Sao Ming]

I'll tell you this JJ - when Ken Norton Jr. (USC LB Coach) calls you and you are considered a Blue Chip LB yourself, what are you going to do.  You listen.  You get excited.  You sign.  Richetti Jones knows this too.  Beats getting a call from Danny or Shibest.  Hell, beats getting a call from Wood too!!  We're falling further and further behind IMO, not catching up. 

[TOM "tbw1"]

Anyone who would begin Razorback recruiting strategy by blowing off East Texas would begin a diet by shooting himself in the stomach.

[JackJohnson]

we haven't signed 11 top 100 players in Tex in the last 5 years combined

[hogsNbeer]

We can't put a 'wall' around our own state.....much less any others....just wont' happen.....We need to get many more recruiters to replace the Bush Leaguers we currently have...

[geoffhog]

Baylor has 20 commits. 9 with 3 stars and 11 with 2 stars. If our commitment list looked like that, I can't imagine the screaming and bitching that would be going on. That is not highly rated class. In fact, for a major conference school, thats plain ole bad.

[Richard_white]

Baylor has 20 commits. 9 with 3 stars and 11 with 2 stars. If our commitment list looked like that, I can't imagine the screaming and bitching that would be going on. That is not highly rated class. In fact, for a major conference school, thats plain ole bad.

With the arguement that most people on here pitch is that Arkansas has 8 commits compared to 1 or 2 from a year a go.  Baylor has 20 commits? Arkansas has 8?  Are we recruiting in Texas?  I am sure that we are but the recruits couldn't remember their names. 

[geoffhog]

What difference does it make how many commits a team has right now if they are not quality players. Let me ask you a question. Would you trade our 8 commits (a 4 star, 5 3 stars and 1 2 star, Brandon Barnett is in JC and hasn't been ranked yet.) for Baylors 20? I certainly wouldn't.

[nwarazfan]

Baylor has 20 commits. 9 with 3 stars and 11 with 2 stars. If our commitment list looked like that, I can't imagine the screaming and bitching that would be going on. That is not highly rated class. In fact, for a major conference school, thats plain ole bad.

The screaming and bitching is going on as it appears that the quick fix that was performed last Dec that somewhat saved last year's class hasn't carried over with the same momentum.  Back to the path we were on last fall. 

[Sao Ming]

Geoff, if Houston Nutt and his staff are locating and recruiting kids based upon what Rivals has to say about them then perhaps that is problem 1.  If you base your opinions solely on what a board has to say about them, seek help.

[Richard_white]

What difference does it make how many commits a team has right now if they are not quality players. Let me ask you a question. Would you trade our 8 commits (a 4 star, 5 3 stars and 1 2 star, Brandon Barnett is in JC and hasn't been ranked yet.) for Baylors 20? I certainly wouldn't.

That wasn't my point.  You said Baylor's recruiting is plain ole bad.  How is that?  9 with 3 stars to our 1 with 4 star.  How is that bad? 

[HatfieldHog]

Our recruiting will improve once Gus gets in action on the field.  I'd bet the farm on it. 

DISCLAIMER:  This statement contains forward-looking opinions which are based on information currently available.  Actual results my differ materially from those currently anticipated due to either meddling or limitiations placed upon the offensive coordinator in the design, play calling or execution of his offense by the former OC and current head coach who suffers from an inflated view of his own capabilities.

Man, that last "Disclaimer" is 24 carrot.

See ya

[hogsNbeer]

Very sad that we are comparable to Baylor's recruiting....That's just down right rediculous....

[geoffhog]

What difference does it make how many commits a team has right now if they are not quality players. Let me ask you a question. Would you trade our 8 commits (a 4 star, 5 3 stars and 1 2 star, Brandon Barnett is in JC and hasn't been ranked yet.) for Baylors 20? I certainly wouldn't.

That wasn't my point.  You said Baylor's recruiting is plain ole bad.  How is that?  9 with 3 stars to our 1 with 4 star.  How is that bad? 

Richard...the bad part was the 11 2 stars.

[Jim Harris]

Say what you want, but the Texas Top 100 is not hard to crack when you are a storied and nationally recognized team such as the Razorbacks.  When I see things like this I get boiling mad...TEXAS is our backyard, basically.  There is NO excuse why WE cannot go into that state and start dragging them out, even if they are kicking a screaming that they will miss thier girlfriends or thier mommies.

Guys, I'm telling you, If BAYLOR gets "it" and attracts this type of talent this early in the year (18 Commits already), we are in trouble. 


This article is from the Waco Tribune-Herald
-----
Hill: BU recruiters catch on to summer school beat
Wednesday, July 19, 2006

By Jerry Hill
Tribune-Herald assistant sports editor

Blame it on Mack Brown or even Joe Paterno.

Remember when football recruiting still had some of that down-to-the-wire drama that keeps you on the edge of your seat? With only a handful of players making early commitments before the season, the real gut-wrenching didn’t even start until December or January.

But Brown and Paterno started a trend that has now become the standard. By the end of the summer — long before February’s national signing date — their dance cards are completely full.

They might save one or two scholarships and have to sweat out some late defections. But for all practical purposes, the recruiting at Texas and Penn State is already done.

Until this year, Baylor never jumped on that wagon. It was a real coup when the Bears could grab a half-dozen commitments before Labor Day.

Well, friends, times have changed.

With Gilmer quarterback G.J. Kinne announcing his decision Sunday night on Fox Southwest, followed by Keller punter Derek Epperson’s pledge on Monday, the Bears have 18 spots already filled for the 2007 recruiting class.

Signing day is still 6 1/2 months away. And if my math is correct, Baylor has no more than seven scholarships left.

“It’s becoming earlier and earlier,” Baylor head coach Guy Morriss said Tuesday. “And when you’re trying to catch up like we are, we’ve got to be the first ones on these kids’ doorsteps.”

Can’t wait till the dust settles

Instead of waiting till the dust settles from another Texas’ recruiting rampage through the state, the Bears tried to strike first. And in some cases, they put on a full-court press with deadlines to take it or leave it.

Mart receiver Damian Davis left it, turning down an early offer from Baylor before committing to Oklahoma State last week.

But this has the makings of being one of Baylor’s best recruiting classes ever.

Kinne, the Class 3A offensive player of the year last season, was a nice cherry on the top of a class that includes blue-chip offensive linemen Lonnie Edwards of Brownsboro, Courtney Green of Corsicana and Anthony Morgan of Lancaster, wide receiver Romie Blaylock of Cedar Hill, defensive linemen Jacody Coleman of Beaumont West Brook and Rex McDougald of Iola and linebackers Chris Francis of Cedar Hill and Chris Sanders of Corsicana.

No culls in this bunch

All nine are ranked in the state’s top 100 by rivals.com or scout.com. Baylor’s 2006 recruiting class included just two players off rivals’ Top 100.

“I think the kids are starting to believe what we’re selling,” Morriss said. “This will be our best signing class to date. I think it proves to some of our doubters that we can recruit and we’re going to get this thing turned around.”

Kinne’s decision could impact the rest of the class. When his commitment leaked out, even before the televised announcement, he got calls and text messages from close to 100 players.

“I have a couple (target recruits),” said Kinne, who called Dallas Lincoln linebacker Richetti Jones, a national top 100 recruit and former Little League teammate. “Just whoever the coaching staff feels like they want me to contact. Now that I’m a part of it, I can do it full on.”

This weekend, the Bears are expected to add offensive lineman John Jones from Cedar Hill and defensive end/tight end Billy Chavis from Beaumont West Brook. That would give them 11 recruits off top 100 lists, plus two of the best kicking prospects in the state.

And despite some disparaging comments by Texas A&M fans on the baylorfans.com Web site, Kinne is the real thing. He had offers from Florida, Tennessee and the Aggies and interest from Oklahoma and USC.

“If they want to come to my house, I can show them all the offers I’ve gotten,” Kinne said. “And you can tell the A&M fans, ‘Wait till Saturday.’ Tell them that. We’re not going to have any problems with A&M.”

Fourteen months from his first game at Baylor, and Kinne has already fired the first shot. Let the fun begin. 

Guy Morriss is a better coach and much more organized that Nutt, and he and his staff work harder that Arkansas's staff as a whole. He'll make a great replacement for Nutt after this season, if he wants to leave Baylor and get back in the SEC, which I doubt he does. He has a ton of Texas contacts though through his years at TCU playing and as an assistant coach. He's believable to the recruits, that's for certain, and he's showing a program that's apparently improving and not stuck in the mediocre muck.

Speaking of Baylor, why doesn't anyone ask UA officials (Broyles) why Baylor could throw out a ton of money for the guy they hired away from Arkansas for academics? Is it possible that Baylor is actually paying more money for the special things that mean something to recruits and parents outside of a fancy stadium, workout and weight room, etc.?

[geoffhog]

Geoff, if Houston Nutt and his staff are locating and recruiting kids based upon what Rivals has to say about them then perhaps that is problem 1.  If you base your opinions solely on what a board has to say about them, seek help.

We all know Houston doesn't base his recruiting on what Rivals says. I certainly didn't say that. My point was that if we had the same list of commits Baylor, has you, me and everyone else would be going crazy. And you know it. Also, if a post made on a recruiting thread on a messege board gets you so upset that you need to get personal, then you are the one who should seek help.

[Sao Ming]

I sincerely apologize to you personally if you took that as an afront - I think my point was made however, that listing's accompanied by yellow stars mean relatively nothing in my book.  Good recruiters and informed followers know this to be true as well.  While Stars are a gauge, in the end those stars are as good as the pixels they are made up of.  Now, if you ask Rivals about thier ratings they will tell you they are dead on...and why wouldnt they.  Funny thing about Rivals.  Rarely if ever do the people drawing the stars see the kids on a Friday night.  Film is a really powerful medium now-a-days and can sway even the most savvy recruiters mind.

Baylor, as I used in my example, is landing good talent.  Baylor, at the end of the day, is Baylor.  As far as stars go, UA only has one current 4 star guy this year.  To me, that is very Baylor'esque in itself.  Shouldn't the Arkansas Razorbacks have many more than that?  Hell, Kentucky has 4 of them today, as we speak !!

[nwarazfan]

Give up Sao.  Odus and Dudley have told them "all is well" and that's it.  All is well.

[geoffhog]

I sincerely apologize to you personally if you took that as an afront - I think my point was made however, that listing's accompanied by yellow stars mean relatively nothing in my book.  Good recruiters and informed followers know this to be true as well.  While Stars are a gauge, in the end those stars are as good as the pixels they are made up of.  Now, if you ask Rivals about thier ratings they will tell you they are dead on...and why wouldnt they.  Funny thing about Rivals.  Rarely if ever do the people drawing the stars see the kids on a Friday night.  Film is a really powerful medium now-a-days and can sway even the most savvy recruiters mind.

Baylor, as I used in my example, is landing good talent.  Baylor, at the end of the day, is Baylor.  As far as stars go, UA only has one current 4 star guy this year.  To me, that is very Baylor'esque in itself.  Shouldn't the Arkansas Razorbacks have many more than that?  Hell, Kentucky has 4 of them today, as we speak !!

Apology accepted. Its no problem. I don't disagree that stars mean little in the end...I'll take 2 star guys like Freddie Fairchild all day long. My point is that if we currently had Baylors group of commits, there would be an uproar. Baylor my end up winning a NC with those guys, but for now, I don't find them that impressive.
I can see 5 more 4 star recruits right now that we have a great shot at and a couple others that are interested, so I believe we'll get our recruits in the end. It would be great if we had more commits, but you can't make Burns, Ziemba, DJ Williams, etc commit and I don't think its worth the risk to give players of that quality an ultimatum. You can get away with that with lower rated players who don't have the scholarship offers, but guys that can go anywhere they want will probably tell you where to go.

[PiggoBitttys]

Geoff, if Houston Nutt and his staff are locating and recruiting kids based upon what Rivals has to say about them then perhaps that is problem 1.  If you base your opinions solely on what a board has to say about them, seek help.

How many people have used recruiting rankings as saying why Arkansas can't compete? Everyone says we must get the 4 and 5 stars like Miami or Texas. Everytime we offer and get a 2* there is a ton of crying on most every board. I'm not even much of a Houston fan, I was ready to hire Butch, but I cannot count the number of ways people criticize both his recruiting and coaching. There literally is no way to please some people. Winning is the only thing that matters to me. I can certainly recognize the talent level increasing and the coaching staff being improved, and I expect to see the differences on the field and win column. At this point, there is NO WAY I'm taking Baylor's class right now over ours. And most will have that same opinion on signing day. We will get Ziemba and Burns, but there will be other good-great players in this class. Bottom line, I would rather let our improved play on the field this year catch the attention of recruits than simply throw out offers and see what we can get now(ala baylor). I expect recruits to look better upon us after a winning season and not 5-6 and 4-7 back to back records.

[TripleJ]

i currently live near the Waco area. and i hate baylor horribly! last year they were going nuts down here b/c baylor won 2 conference games for the first time ever. if that is what arkansas is trying to compete with then excuse me while i get sick....

[Oklahawg]

UA's gurus report names that are spoonfed to them. We won't know if UA is going after a player hard in Texas unless (a) OK or DD finds out from clandestine sources in the Broyles Complex or (b) another school's guru reports it. At some point we'll see UA linked with 3-4 top Texas players. While UA needs a half-dozen solid players from Texas each year, Baylor needs 25. Big difference.

[JackJohnson]

UA's gurus report names that are spoonfed to them. We won't know if UA is going after a player hard in Texas unless (a) OK or DD finds out from clandestine sources in the Broyles Complex or (b) another school's guru reports it. At some point we'll see UA linked with 3-4 top Texas players. While UA needs a half-dozen solid players from Texas each year, Baylor needs 25. Big difference.

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.  We are getting the also rans.  When was the last time we beat Tex for a player in Tex (LR in 2000), UGA for a player in Ga (Batman in 2001)  OU for a player in Ok (never), the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl (never) Tenn for a player in Tenn (never) Bama or Au for a player in Alabama (never), or LSU for players in La (never).  We are getting the second and in most cases 3rd tier players from out of state, while other schools are able to come in and take them from us. We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor.  We are battling OSU for players in Ok, Southern Miss for players in Ga, Memphis and Ole Miss for players in Memphis, and La Tech and ULM for players in La (when we even go there) and aren't even going into Missouri or Miss!!...

[Oklahawg]

UA's gurus report names that are spoonfed to them. We won't know if UA is going after a player hard in Texas unless (a) OK or DD finds out from clandestine sources in the Broyles Complex or (b) another school's guru reports it. At some point we'll see UA linked with 3-4 top Texas players. While UA needs a half-dozen solid players from Texas each year, Baylor needs 25. Big difference.

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.  We are getting the also rans.  When was the last time we beat Tex for a player in Tex (LR in 2000), UGA for a player in Ga (Batman in 2001)  OU for a player in Ok (never), the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl (never) Tenn for a player in Tenn (never) Bama or Au for a player in Alabama (never), or LSU for players in La (never).  We are getting the second and in most cases 3rd tier players from out of state, while other schools are able to come in and take them from us. We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor.  We are battling OSU for players in Ok, Southern Miss for players in Ga, Memphis and Ole Miss for players in Memphis, and La Tech and ULM for players in La (when we even go there) and aren't even going into Missouri or Miss!!...

I don't know how long you've followed UA football but this is standard operating proceedure since Holtz quit recruiting. In its best years, UA gets most of the in-staters, plucks a few stars that are seen as square pegs in round holes by the big dogs, and have a couple of long shots pan out.

From your list:

Batman chose UA so he could run for McDonnell.

LR had to sit a year and Texas didn't want to risk it.

When we beat A&M for players we are traditionally beating a top 25 team. You can miss, and miss big in Texas, and still get great, not just good, talent.

The comparable talent in Arkansas rarely leaves. D'Angelo Williams was supposed to be the #3 RB in-state his senior year. Cedric Houston qualifies. Harold James was supposed to be all-world; Bo Mosely was the best player on that HS team.

While I agree that UA's out-of-state recruiting is not pretty the angle most in this thread are taking is off-base. The problem isn't the dazzle of the recruiting hype attached to the players we sign. The problem is that the players we sign are generally not the ones we start off focusing on; we almost always wind up with half of our out-of-state signees being Plan "B" or "C", and darn few from the Plan "A" list. The problem is the scattershot approach to recruiting. The problem is solveable at a table in the Broyles Complex and takes about 15 minutes to fix. The problem is you must have administrative savvy to pull it off.

A few years ago folks beefed when we lost recruits to Iowa. That was a darn fine Iowa team that played on New Year's Day two years ago; they'll be back again soon.

Look at what UA needs. Then, look at what needs can reasonably be met in-state. Now, start poking about the recruiting lists and you'll see the real deal. We are going to be happy signing a bunch of Arkansans and plucking a handful from other states that we see as prototypical UA players, the Bua, Miller, Hamlin types that we are accustomed to reading about.

We have every reason to think that we'll fill the OL needs in-state, unless Palmgren from KC chooses UA. Why? Because we can. If I thought the resources saved by signing in-state kids was being redirected into out-of-state recruiting then I'd be happier.

Bottom line and then I'll let you guys troll around some more. We had back-to-back losing seasons. Most schools get a bump on the recruiting trail following that experience because they have a new staff. We don't. Until we win we carry a ton of baggage out on the road. The "hype" that all schools spew doesn't spin well from UA right now. Gus and Alex can get some traction with their vision for the offense.

In all fairness, it doesn't help that we don't have a bunch of hungry coaches who get all bunched up over their lust for recruiting. Shibest does okay. The rest of the MSM are doing pedestrian efforts, and I'm being kind. The real recruiting is from the 3 new coaches. They are hungry and have something to prove, and a system to recruit to.

[Sao Ming]

I think the jest of my post has been lost, again.  I am not condoning Baylor's wonderful list of 2 and 3 star players.  I am not comparing our current class to Baylor's.  I do not want to win 2 conference games per year.  Look, the comparison I made with Baylor is to simply illustrate that the TEXAS TOP 100 is virtually untapped by UA.  1-4 is not enough.  We deserve 10 per year of the TT100.  Minimum.  And even then I see us in on the TT50. 

For those who are comfortable with the list of ARK talent we are considering/offered, let me ask you this, compared to Baylor's List...of the names below, how many stars does each have by thier name(s).

Cam Baker
CJ Chaten
Johnny Borkin
Najel Byrd
Nolan Hankins
Alex Tejeda

and now for the lowly 3*'s

Zack Pianalto
Jake Bequette
Grant Cook
Wade Grayson
Crosby Tuck
Josh Trezvant
Paul Henry
Seth Oxner

See my point is whether you have heard of the Baylor 3*'s or not, you have heard of the UA 3* prospects.  Go ahead and compare if you want to.  Gaurantee you this though...Baylor is sleeping a hell of a lot better tonight knowing that their fair to spare 3's are commited, while our coaches have no idea what our fair to spare 3's are going to do.

Author's note:  No - i don't think our are all fair to spare...just calling a 3 a 3, as so many here have today.  Don't get played by a Star rating.

[fool_on_the_hill]

well look at it this way we are in a win win situation this year when
it comes to recruiting , we will win and start turning heads of the
recruits or lose then we will have butch recruiting for us starting in
november either way we will see stars in recruiting soon

[Oklahawg]

Sao, the missing variable that props up your case:  rivals tends to boost a few Arkansas recruits up at least one star, per the in-state gurus.

Sao, I'd be happy with a Texas crop that compared well to  2005: Casey Dick, Marcus Shavers, Colin Tucker...three that are clearly headed towards meaningful playing time. Fish, Harris...we'll see.

[Sao Ming]

I agree with you on Fish.  Is he still 5'7" 157 ?  Harris, well. 

[Oklahawg]

Harris spent time with a speed coach before hitting UA. That was thought to be his major hangup. Even if he winds up as a special teams guy that's better than many of the DBs we've had recently--huge numbers and huge number of no-shows on the field.

Fish might get some touches now that the offense won't necessarily broadcast run vs pass based on the personnel. You knew we were running when blocking specialist David Thompson would trot onto the field. Fish was not out there to block...he's a squashed french fry short of a speed bump.

Seriously, if Fish can show that he can (a) run routes precisely and (b) hold onto anything they toss at him then he'll get touches. He's shifty and the size makes him tough to get a good hit on. He's got as good a shot as any returning WR except for Monk, who has proven himself golden.

[Sao Ming]

Okla - if you have any pull with the Complex, turn them on to this kid:

Gilbert Moye - Diboll, TX (by way of Jasper, TX and Hurricane Rita)
Moye is a 6'2" 200 QB that plays any/every position on the field - he is/will be recruited as an ATH in almost every situation yet his strenght is running out of the pocket as a QB.  I have never endorsed a TX kid here before, he is my first.  An absolute cannot miss kid who, if seen by anyone at say an HDN camp, would be named the camp MVP...and that includes anyone such as Damian.  Gilbert has also been quoted as saying he will go anywhere to play.  Being courted by teams such as UT/AM/OSU/TT etc. 

[Hawgballz]

UA's gurus report names that are spoonfed to them. We won't know if UA is going after a player hard in Texas unless (a) OK or DD finds out from clandestine sources in the Broyles Complex or (b) another school's guru reports it. At some point we'll see UA linked with 3-4 top Texas players. While UA needs a half-dozen solid players from Texas each year, Baylor needs 25. Big difference.

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.  We are getting the also rans.  When was the last time we beat Tex for a player in Tex (LR in 2000), UGA for a player in Ga (Batman in 2001)  OU for a player in Ok (never), the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl (never) Tenn for a player in Tenn (never) Bama or Au for a player in Alabama (never), or LSU for players in La (never).  We are getting the second and in most cases 3rd tier players from out of state, while other schools are able to come in and take them from us. We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor.  We are battling OSU for players in Ok, Southern Miss for players in Ga, Memphis and Ole Miss for players in Memphis, and La Tech and ULM for players in La (when we even go there) and aren't even going into Missouri or Miss!!...

The fact that you don't find London Crawford good enough to mention in your rant (i.e. LSwho commit) leads me to wonder about your recruit evaluating skills, because I happen to think Crawford is a stud althete who I hope will have the right attitude to get the job on the field, but maybe you know better than everyone else.  Time will tell.

[bigred7987]

Sao...
Carlton SalterssWe beat out Alabama, Auburn, Louisville, Iowa State, LSU, Maryland, Nebraska and North Carolina for
Michael Smith from Florida, Purdue, Auburn, Florida, Northwestern were his final 5 along with us
Michael Hall from Georgia, While he didnt pan out we beat  Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Florida State, Clemson and Georgia for his services
Marcus Shavers...You mentioned yes...Texas A&M and us were his final but he had offers from Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Kansas State as well. 
Collin Tucker...here is a quote from a rivals article on him "Tucker's top five is Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss, LSU and UCLA, with the Razorbacks, Crimson Tide and Ole Miss tied for his top spot.
Darius Vinnett We picked up from California JUCO
ERNEST MITCHELL And your going to love this one Sao you say we never compete with Fla State.  There was a very intense battle for 4 star Mitchell between us and them, oh yeah do you not remember them trying to pick up Ray Dominguez after we discovered him?
Michael Grant..I know it was odd circumstances but he took official visits to Georgia, Florida, Miami, and Tennessee and was highly recruited at all but ended up at Arkansas.
I realize Tate was a dud from Oklahoma but he picked us over Okla State and Tennessee
Desmond Williams from Texas...A&M Arizona, Ariz State, and LSU
Shedrick Johnson from TX.."Oklahoma State, Syracuse, Arkansas, Iowa, and Houston.  Iowa is probably recruiting me the hardest right now."
Ryan YoungWe beat out Oklahoma for in a two horse race for a long time. 
Jeremy Palmoore picked us over South Carolina
CHRIS HOUSTON HELLOOOO!!!???  Picked us over OKLAHOMA, LSU, and NEBRASKA, and GT.
Robert Felton anybody? Arizona, Wisconsin, Kansas.
Jeremy Harrell? Nebraska, Ok State, and Ariz State all got visits but he picks us.
Robert JohnsonWe know about the recruiting battle with K-state.
Cedric Washington Ok. State and Texas A&M
Tony Ugoh...and to top it all off Mr. Ugoh.  FLORIDA STATE, OKLAHOMA, and ARIZONA and Florida State got the last visit and they are famous for their last weekend recruiting visits and we still got him.

All of these guys were out of state players HEAVILY recruited and I only listed top tier teams or teams who have been in bowl games the last two years and we haven't.  So keep on living in your pessimistic world where our staff never does anything right but I think all 20 of these players will say our coaches are doing something right if they can sway people away from perennial top ten powerhouses in Oklahoma, Florida State, Georgia, Florida, etc. WHEN WE AREN'T EVEN WINNING! Don't say something if there are facts to prove you wrong Sao.  Like this

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.

and this

the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl

and once again this

We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor

.  I don't have a problem with you showing your displeasure in recruiting, but if you are going to do it.  Don't misrepresent the facts like you are so blatantly doing. 

[thahawg]

Can't forget UCLA recruited Jeremy Harrell as a OLM.

[Jim Harris]

Can't forget UCLA recruited Jeremy Harrell as a OLM.

yeah, but when he arrived we badly needed him and anybody else who would raise their hand to play defensive line.

[Jim Harris]

Sao...
Carlton SalterssWe beat out Alabama, Auburn, Louisville, Iowa State, LSU, Maryland, Nebraska and North Carolina for
Michael Smith from Florida, Purdue, Auburn, Florida, Northwestern were his final 5 along with us
Michael Hall from Georgia, While he didnt pan out we beat  Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Florida State, Clemson and Georgia for his services
Marcus Shavers...You mentioned yes...Texas A&M and us were his final but he had offers from Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Kansas State as well. 
Collin Tucker...here is a quote from a rivals article on him "Tucker’s top five is Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss, LSU and UCLA, with the Razorbacks, Crimson Tide and Ole Miss tied for his top spot.
Darius Vinnett We picked up from California JUCO
ERNEST MITCHELL And your going to love this one Sao you say we never compete with Fla State.  There was a very intense battle for 4 star Mitchell between us and them, oh yeah do you not remember them trying to pick up Ray Dominguez after we discovered him?
Michael Grant..I know it was odd circumstances but he took official visits to Georgia, Florida, Miami, and Tennessee and was highly recruited at all but ended up at Arkansas.
I realize Tate was a dud from Oklahoma but he picked us over Okla State and Tennessee
Desmond Williams from Texas...A&M Arizona, Ariz State, and LSU
Shedrick Johnson from TX.."Oklahoma State, Syracuse, Arkansas, Iowa, and Houston.  Iowa is probably recruiting me the hardest right now."
Ryan YoungWe beat out Oklahoma for in a two horse race for a long time. 
Jeremy Palmoore picked us over South Carolina
CHRIS HOUSTON HELLOOOO!!!???  Picked us over OKLAHOMA, LSU, and NEBRASKA, and GT.
Robert Felton anybody? Arizona, Wisconsin, Kansas.
Jeremy Harrell? Nebraska, Ok State, and Ariz State all got visits but he picks us.
Robert JohnsonWe know about the recruiting battle with K-state.
Cedric Washington Ok. State and Texas A&M
Tony Ugoh...and to top it all off Mr. Ugoh.  FLORIDA STATE, OKLAHOMA, and ARIZONA and Florida State got the last visit and they are famous for their last weekend recruiting visits and we still got him.

All of these guys were out of state players HEAVILY recruited and I only listed top tier teams or teams who have been in bowl games the last two years and we haven't.  So keep on living in your pessimistic world where our staff never does anything right but I think all 20 of these players will say our coaches are doing something right if they can sway people away from perennial top ten powerhouses in Oklahoma, Florida State, Georgia, Florida, etc. WHEN WE AREN'T EVEN WINNING! Don't say something if there are facts to prove you wrong Sao.  Like this

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.

and this

the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl

and once again this

We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor

.  I don't have a problem with you showing your displeasure in recruiting, but if you are going to do it.  Don't misrepresent the facts like you are so blatantly doing. 

Your post shows an amazing amount of recruiting naivete.

[bigred7987]

Your post shows an amazing amount of recruiting naivete.

Do tell since your inclined to criticize

[Hawgballz]

Sao...
Carlton SalterssWe beat out Alabama, Auburn, Louisville, Iowa State, LSU, Maryland, Nebraska and North Carolina for
Michael Smith from Florida, Purdue, Auburn, Florida, Northwestern were his final 5 along with us
Michael Hall from Georgia, While he didnt pan out we beat  Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Florida State, Clemson and Georgia for his services
Marcus Shavers...You mentioned yes...Texas A&M and us were his final but he had offers from Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Kansas State as well. 
Collin Tucker...here is a quote from a rivals article on him "Tucker’s top five is Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss, LSU and UCLA, with the Razorbacks, Crimson Tide and Ole Miss tied for his top spot.
Darius Vinnett We picked up from California JUCO
ERNEST MITCHELL And your going to love this one Sao you say we never compete with Fla State.  There was a very intense battle for 4 star Mitchell between us and them, oh yeah do you not remember them trying to pick up Ray Dominguez after we discovered him?
Michael Grant..I know it was odd circumstances but he took official visits to Georgia, Florida, Miami, and Tennessee and was highly recruited at all but ended up at Arkansas.
I realize Tate was a dud from Oklahoma but he picked us over Okla State and Tennessee
Desmond Williams from Texas...A&M Arizona, Ariz State, and LSU
Shedrick Johnson from TX.."Oklahoma State, Syracuse, Arkansas, Iowa, and Houston.  Iowa is probably recruiting me the hardest right now."
Ryan YoungWe beat out Oklahoma for in a two horse race for a long time. 
Jeremy Palmoore picked us over South Carolina
CHRIS HOUSTON HELLOOOO!!!???  Picked us over OKLAHOMA, LSU, and NEBRASKA, and GT.
Robert Felton anybody? Arizona, Wisconsin, Kansas.
Jeremy Harrell? Nebraska, Ok State, and Ariz State all got visits but he picks us.
Robert JohnsonWe know about the recruiting battle with K-state.
Cedric Washington Ok. State and Texas A&M
Tony Ugoh...and to top it all off Mr. Ugoh.  FLORIDA STATE, OKLAHOMA, and ARIZONA and Florida State got the last visit and they are famous for their last weekend recruiting visits and we still got him.

All of these guys were out of state players HEAVILY recruited and I only listed top tier teams or teams who have been in bowl games the last two years and we haven't.  So keep on living in your pessimistic world where our staff never does anything right but I think all 20 of these players will say our coaches are doing something right if they can sway people away from perennial top ten powerhouses in Oklahoma, Florida State, Georgia, Florida, etc. WHEN WE AREN'T EVEN WINNING! Don't say something if there are facts to prove you wrong Sao.  Like this

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.

and this

the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl

and once again this

We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor

.  I don't have a problem with you showing your displeasure in recruiting, but if you are going to do it.  Don't misrepresent the facts like you are so blatantly doing. 

Your post shows an amazing amount of recruiting naivete.

Why?  Because it doesn't support your position, Drakehog.  I used to have a boss who would tell underlings that "As you become more intelligent, you will agree with me".  You didn't retire from accounting in Ft. Smith did you?

[bigred7987]

Its beautiful to look at things in hindsight where everything is 20/20 however just because some of those guys aren't game breakers doesn't mean they were awful recruits.  Arkansas, Oklahoma, Florida, Fla State, Nebraska, Ariz State, UCLA, Wisconsin, LSU, Ga Tech, Iowa, A&M, Ok. State and others thought just as much as all those players and heavily recruited them.  Tell you what you guys go do the recruiting for Arkansas and we can just bash you every single time a kid is 2nd string and wants to leave or doesn't reach his potential.  Scouts across the country think enough of kids to rate them highly and so do coaches.  If they didn't think they would pan out they wouldn't offer.  You win some you lose some but unfortunately at Arkansas your considered a failure if you have one that doesn't pan out. 

[Jim Harris]

Sao...
Carlton SalterssWe beat out Alabama, Auburn, Louisville, Iowa State, LSU, Maryland, Nebraska and North Carolina for
Michael Smith from Florida, Purdue, Auburn, Florida, Northwestern were his final 5 along with us
Michael Hall from Georgia, While he didnt pan out we beat  Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Florida State, Clemson and Georgia for his services
Marcus Shavers...You mentioned yes...Texas A&M and us were his final but he had offers from Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Kansas State as well. 
Collin Tucker...here is a quote from a rivals article on him "Tucker's top five is Arkansas, Alabama, Ole Miss, LSU and UCLA, with the Razorbacks, Crimson Tide and Ole Miss tied for his top spot.
Darius Vinnett We picked up from California JUCO
ERNEST MITCHELL And your going to love this one Sao you say we never compete with Fla State.  There was a very intense battle for 4 star Mitchell between us and them, oh yeah do you not remember them trying to pick up Ray Dominguez after we discovered him?
Michael Grant..I know it was odd circumstances but he took official visits to Georgia, Florida, Miami, and Tennessee and was highly recruited at all but ended up at Arkansas.
I realize Tate was a dud from Oklahoma but he picked us over Okla State and Tennessee
Desmond Williams from Texas...A&M Arizona, Ariz State, and LSU
Shedrick Johnson from TX.."Oklahoma State, Syracuse, Arkansas, Iowa, and Houston.  Iowa is probably recruiting me the hardest right now."
Ryan YoungWe beat out Oklahoma for in a two horse race for a long time. 
Jeremy Palmoore picked us over South Carolina
CHRIS HOUSTON HELLOOOO!!!???  Picked us over OKLAHOMA, LSU, and NEBRASKA, and GT.
Robert Felton anybody? Arizona, Wisconsin, Kansas.
Jeremy Harrell? Nebraska, Ok State, and Ariz State all got visits but he picks us.
Robert JohnsonWe know about the recruiting battle with K-state.
Cedric Washington Ok. State and Texas A&M
Tony Ugoh...and to top it all off Mr. Ugoh.  FLORIDA STATE, OKLAHOMA, and ARIZONA and Florida State got the last visit and they are famous for their last weekend recruiting visits and we still got him.

All of these guys were out of state players HEAVILY recruited and I only listed top tier teams or teams who have been in bowl games the last two years and we haven't.  So keep on living in your pessimistic world where our staff never does anything right but I think all 20 of these players will say our coaches are doing something right if they can sway people away from perennial top ten powerhouses in Oklahoma, Florida State, Georgia, Florida, etc. WHEN WE AREN'T EVEN WINNING! Don't say something if there are facts to prove you wrong Sao.  Like this

The big difference is we are NOT getting those players from out of state.

and this

the Big 3 in florida for a player in Fl

and once again this

We are not even battling A&M or TT for players in Tex, we are battling Kansas, KSU, and Baylor

.  I don't have a problem with you showing your displeasure in recruiting, but if you are going to do it.  Don't misrepresent the facts like you are so blatantly doing. 

Your post shows an amazing amount of recruiting naivete.

Why?  Because it doesn't support your position, Drakehog.  I used to have a boss who would tell underlings that "As you become more intelligent, you will agree with me".  You didn't retire from accounting in Ft. Smith did you?

I could not care less if you ever agree with me, I just read through your response to Sao Ming and it shows amazing naivete about the recruiting process, about what offers were actually out there. It appears as though you have bought into the Otis/Biddy/Rivals/Scout/Chris-Vaughn-and-Houston-Nutt advised version of Arkansas's recruiting.

Are you aware, for instance, that not all "offers" are equal? I wonder what percentage of the board understands that concept, that one "offer" here may not equal an another "offer" there. I'll spell it out to eliminate confusion: Take Cody Green from Cullman, Ala. Otis says he was "offered" by Alabama. The "offer" to Cody was a one-year make good scholarship, meaning if he proved to them in that one year he was deserving, he'd get it extended. Arkansas, meanwhile, offered four years (but he ain't gonna make it, after all, as Alabama knew all along). See the difference in offers there? Ryan Powers, same deal, Alabama "offered" the kid a chance to earn a sholarship or gray shirt, Arkansas offered the scholarship off the bat. Are those "offers" the same? Can we legitimately say that recruit, even if he turns out to be all-SEC, turned down "offers" from Alabama, Tennessee, etc. Same with Dominguez.
There is a really good way to rate players who are reporting all these "offers", and that's if you know the degree of their offer, is it contingent on something else, is it a straight up scholie offer, is it a gray shirt, etc. That determines to some extent the value of player, not these Otis list of supposed offers, and not that it can predict how good the player is going to be, since  Arkansas didn't even want to honor the "gray shirt" it promised to Jamal Anderson off the bat. Now look what they've got, especially after they got any scholie problems cleared up there.

I would say, looking across that list, that a high percentage of the "offers" you show for certain players are not legitimate. Nor do offers indicate where on the A, B, C or D list these guys rate on the big-boys' recruiting lists, and if they are contingent on someone else's decision. For example, Earnest Mitchell was a contingent deal with FSU and they cooled, as did Clemson. That's why he "chose" Arkansas. And though I have hopes that Michael Smith is going to be a good player in the pinch, he did not "choose" us over Florida and Auburn. He had a choice between Purdue and Arkansas. Same with Van Stumon from North Little Rock, for that matter. And not that any of that is a sure-fire indicator that any of those guys are going to make it or not, but I just hate to see Razorback fans' hopes raised by such bogus crap as offers that aren't really there.

And, you really expect anyone at all to believe that Michael Hall had legitimate offers from the schools you list? The guy who is transferring to Samford? A bigger question in all of this is why was Hall, or Ryan Young, or Palmoore, or Ivora Hall, and some others of the past three post-cloud years on our list to begin with?

[Razorod]

uh, Bigred and Hawgball, Drake's got it right. You need to learn to read between the lines when it comes to recruiting and who's on whose A list and B list and so on. You need to filter Otis and co. His information as to whom the Hogs are recruiting and offering may be accurate, but his evaluation of players and their talent level and their other offers leaves a lot to be desired.

[bigred7987]

#1 You obviously care if you take the time to criticize my post
#2 I do not buy into the Otis/Nutt slant just as I don't buy into the Anti-Nutt groups.  I take in the information from both sides and deduce for myself what the truth is.  People would be stupid to believe everything Otis/Nutt say just as they would be stupid to believe everything that people who hate Nutt and co. say. 
#3 Where did I mention Cody Green or Ryan Powers? k thnx
#4 If Ernest Mitchell was such a "contingent" with FSU then why was he in Tallahassee on the 2nd to last recruiting weekend?  Thought they "cooled" on him.  I will give you this however, Clemson did cool as they had 5 other DT's commit that year before him.  A teacher at my school who is also a football coach transferred from Newnan in Georgia and we talked about Mitchell often.  In no way did FSU "cool" as evidence by his official visit near the end.  FSU was in the mix for him from the beginning.  This coach also told me that everyone thought he was headed to FSU but shocked everyone when he said Arkansas.  His reasoning was he just felt more comfortable there even though he didn't expect it himself.  That is Straight from the coach I will add who had no reason to lie.  Also just to add that not everything Otis says is spin, he talks about Ernest being a weight room freak, the first thing this coach mentioned was that he had never seen anyone like him in a work out room and that it was scary. 
#5 You can say Michael Smith never had offers from anybody besides Purdue, he says "his recruitment is moving along smoothly, with the exception of one bump in the road. Florida has been mentioned among his favorites all along. He is still considering the Gators, but the recent firing of head coach Ron Zook and the entire Gators coaching staff has caused him to rethink his situation with the home state school.

"I guess, truthfully, it has backed me up with them a little bit, so I don't really know," Smith said.
#6  Is the word Van or Stumon in my post anywhere? no k thnx
#7 I will apologize on that list, as I go back and check none of those schools make sense... I must have been looking at something completely wrong.  Ga Tech and Maryland were the main suitors for his services.  Ok State was in there as well along with Illinois when Zook was hired.  If anything he was a contingency plan for us, not for others. 
We could go on all day illegitimizing every single offer from every school the fact is theres no way to show the burden of proof on all of those.  We would be stupid to believe that every single player that we picked up was only offered gray shirts as you try to insinuate about many of them.  We would also be stupid to believe that every single player had an intense battle with several schools and chose Arkansas over all other schools who were recruiting them as hard as possible.  But its plain to see that most of you have blinders on so thick that all you are willing to see is the wrong.  You guys are the like 5 o'clock news every night.  Only wanting to report the bad news or things that make us or our coaches look bad.  Your not reporting or talking about every good thing that we do in recruiting only what you want which is the bad.  All I'm saying is for the sake of this board and everyone who comes here.  Show some objectivity and try to see things for what they are, not what all of you want them to be, which is that Nutt and everything related with Arkansas is a colossal failure in recruiting. 

Disclaimer: I am not a hugger nor a darksider.  Sometimes I hate the guy and sometimes I think he does fine.