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Will the UofA be willing to pay a coach more than they were paying BB?

Started by hogsanity, November 20, 2017, 12:01:20 pm

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hogsanity

If yes, then obviously they can hire anyone that will take the job. If not, that limits the pool they are playing in.

I believe in was Clay Henry that said last week that he was told the BOT is not going to pay like that for a new coach. Part of their dissatisfaction with JL was how much money was being pent on coaches now, how much it was going to take to buy them out. They are not interested in paying that, paying off JL at approx 1.5 mil a year for 5 years, Paying a huge buyout to hire a coach, and then paying him 4mil+ plus assistants.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

NuttinItUp

If you want to play with the big boys, you gotta pony up.

Just the way it is in this day-and-age.

 

hogginbama

Then be prepared to continue at this level of coaching. Great coaches are going to command a great salary. If they are not willing to pay up for results, then maybe it is time to replace the BOT. This is looking more like they were just tired of not being the "big boys on campus" anymore and made a power play to impress their woman.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

online-with-swine


ipigsooie

The good thing about an up and coming coach is you arent paying as much. If they win they get paid more. That's how it should work. Look at what Kirby smart makes. I bet he gets a raise very soon. 

1highhog

I wish that coaches were paid on performance than just straight out given these huge saleries plus performance based incentives. 

hogsanity

Quote from: 1highhog on November 20, 2017, 12:09:58 pm
I wish that coaches were paid on performance than just straight out given these huge saleries plus performance based incentives. 

yes, but they are not, so will they be willing to pay?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

The Boar War

Yes.  Any good agent has seen Bielema's contract and when it comes down to negotiation will say "You paid that for a 4-8 coach.  You're going to have to pay more than that if you want a better coach".  The only exception is a guy like Venables.

farmhawg

From theflyinghog

Jeff Long is sitting around drinking some fruity girl drink and reading this and realizing he was the wrong man for the job. We're crazy. We love us some damn hog football. There may be a bunch of suits sitting behind glass on gameday but dammit you better not cross us airplane-tracking, fence-jumping, hangar-breakin-entering night-vision purchasin sumbitches! We're Miracle on Markham and 4th and 25, 7 overtime-winning tear down the goalposts and drag em down Dickson because you ain't goin to the BCS, fat phil!! BRING ME A COACH WITH A PAIR AND SACRIFICE A VIRGIN CUZ ITS TIME TO FUSCING WIN!!!!

Hogwarrior

Quote from: 1highhog on November 20, 2017, 12:09:58 pm
I wish that coaches were paid on performance than just straight out given these huge saleries plus performance based incentives.

When are people on this board going to realize CFB is a business and MARKET VALUE and NORMS have been established! We don't live in the days when a soder pawp cost a nickel and never will again!  The MARKET for a P5 coach is well above 3 million and will keep going up.  All have buyout clauses.  And when a coach or AD is fired without cause, they receive compensation in accordance with their contract on their way out the door!  It's part of the business, it's the way it's done all over the country, and it's NEVER going back to the "good ole days!"  The next AD is going to get 750k-1 mil, the coach is going to get more than 2 mil and a buyout clause period!  It's the freakin SEC folks!  Not Conway, not A-State, the freakin SEC and SEC ADs and coaches are going to be paid accordingly!

hawgon

What do you know?  One more thread about how we can't compete from the broken record.

phadedhawg

We will have to pay thru the nose and of course there will be a buyout if the new coach has any name recognition. 

After we lose the first game we will start winging about how steep the buyout is and should be fire the athletic director.

HogBreath

Quote from: Hogwarrior on November 20, 2017, 12:27:41 pm
When are people on this board going to realize CFB is a business and MARKET VALUE and NORMS have been established! We don't live in the days when a soder pawp cost a nickel and never will again!  The MARKET for a P5 coach is well above 3 million and will keep going up.  All have buyout clauses.  And when a coach or AD is fired without cause, they receive compensation in accordance with their contract on their way out the door!  It's part of the business, it's the way it's done all over the country, and it's NEVER going back to the "good ole days!" 


Maybe it's just me, but when someone gets fired for doing lousy, half azzed work, they would be fired with cause.

Clearly, CBB has not done a good job.
I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

 

hogsanity

Quote from: hawgon on November 20, 2017, 12:28:48 pm
What do you know?  One more thread about how we can't compete from the broken record.

How is asking if the UofA will be willing to pay a coach more than they paid BB a thread about how we can not compete? I did not say they do not have the money to pay that, I asked if they will be willing to pay it.

Some of you are so paranoid that you turn everything into some kind of slight against the Hogs or the state in general.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

The NewEra

Quote from: hogginbama on November 20, 2017, 12:05:44 pm
Then be prepared to continue at this level of coaching. Great coaches are going to command a great salary. If they are not willing to pay up for results, then maybe it is time to replace the BOT. This is looking more like they were just tired of not being the "big boys on campus" anymore and made a power play to impress their woman.

Two things you said here are wrong in my opinion and this concept is what is part of the problem.  This is not an issue about great coaches commanding great salaries.  This is an issue about unproven coaches being paid huge amounts for great opportunities.  Butch Jones, Bielema, Sumlin, McElwain and so forth.  Mediocre and poor coaches are being GIVEN huge sums without a history of great performance in the SEC.

Secondly, this isn't a matter of paying up for results.  If it were (and it should be) the base should be around $2.5MM with an incentive plan based on total wins, conference wins, bowls and final four + championship appearance.  Only then would the Great Coaches be paid their value instead of rewarding people just for taking a job and before anything of substance was achieved.

I don't know when, but this trend of paying big bucks to hire coaches who are unproven in the SEC West in particular will end.  Too many sub par coaches are proving themselves to be out of their league and schools and boosters will some day tire of this.  And the huge buyouts is also going to correct itself some day.  Why guarantee a guy that if he fails miserably you will make him even richer?  Everyone on this board would feel like we hit the lottery if we were told we were going to be let go with a multi million dollar severance. 

One day in the not too distant future this idiocy is going to correct itself.  It defies logic, but more importantly, it defies financial responsibility and prudence. 

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: hogginbama on November 20, 2017, 12:05:44 pm
Then be prepared to continue at this level of coaching. Great coaches are going to command a great salary. If they are not willing to pay up for results, then maybe it is time to replace the BOT. This is looking more like they were just tired of not being the "big boys on campus" anymore and made a power play to impress their woman.
But we've been paying top 10% salary and receiving bottom 10% P5 conference production and results. So why continue to pay $4MM+ when we are basically gambling on what we will get? Literally a roll of the dice. Just betting on the come.

How about a contract structured with some [CENSORED] incentives instead of big pay guaranteed for half a decade?

Example, depending on exactly who the coach is and what he has accomplished recently:

Year 1: $1MM
If year 1 not a total fustercluck,
Year 2: $1.5MM
If year 2 is progress, then:
Year 3: $2MM
If year 3  = or > year 2 and all else is satisfactory (athlete and staff behaviors on and off field, academic progress, et al):
Year 4: $3MM
Renegotiate contract after year 4, with new contract based on specified recruiting class rankings and W-L results over past 4 years. Sign new 4 year contract.

And no [CENSORED] buyout clause unless you are Nick Saban.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

WilsonHog

Get what you pay for. If all you're willing to pay is Western Sizzlin' prices for a steak, you get a Western Sizzlin' cut of meat.

If Malzahn comes, it'll be for Flight prices.

NuttinItUp

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
But we've been paying top 10% salary and receiving bottom 10% P5 conference production and results. So why continue to pay $4MM+ when we are basically gambling on what we will get? Literally a roll of the dice. Just betting on the come.

How about a contract structured with some [CENSORED] incentives instead of big pay guaranteed for half a decade?

Example, depending on exactly who the coach is and what he has accomplished recently:

Year 1: $1MM
If year 1 not a total fustercluck,
Year 2: $1.5MM
If year 2 is progress, then:
Year 3: $2MM
If year 3  = or > year 2 and all else is satisfactory (athlete and staff behaviors on and off field, academic progress, et al):
Year 4: $3MM
Renegotiate contract after year 4, with new contract based on specified recruiting class rankings and W-L results over past 4 years. Sign new 4 year contract.

And no [CENSORED] buyout clause unless you are Nick Saban.

Good luck finding a quality coach who would agree to that.

hogsanity

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
But we've been paying top 10% salary and receiving bottom 10% P5 conference production and results. So why continue to pay $4MM+ when we are basically gambling on what we will get? Literally a roll of the dice. Just betting on the come.

How about a contract structured with some [CENSORED] incentives instead of big pay guaranteed for half a decade?

Example, depending on exactly who the coach is and what he has accomplished recently:

Year 1: $1MM
If year 1 not a total fustercluck,
Year 2: $1.5MM
If year 2 is progress, then:
Year 3: $2MM
If year 3  = or > year 2 and all else is satisfactory (athlete and staff behaviors on and off field, academic progress, et al):
Year 4: $3MM
Renegotiate contract after year 4, with new contract based on specified recruiting class rankings and W-L results over past 4 years. Sign new 4 year contract.

And no [CENSORED] buyout clause unless you are Nick Saban.

Because, unless the guy has the worst agent in the history of agents, you'd be lucky to get anyone above a position coach at a bad program to come for that.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:01:20 pm
If yes, then obviously they can hire anyone that will take the job. If not, that limits the pool they are playing in.

I believe in was Clay Henry that said last week that he was told the BOT is not going to pay like that for a new coach. Part of their dissatisfaction with JL was how much money was being pent on coaches now, how much it was going to take to buy them out. They are not interested in paying that, paying off JL at approx 1.5 mil a year for 5 years, Paying a huge buyout to hire a coach, and then paying him 4mil+ plus assistants.

This is EXACTLY why I believe the Gus rumors don't hold water. I honestly believe a coach like Mike Norvell will be offered the job because the U of A isn't going to pay 5 Million a year for a head coach.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

The NewEra

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on November 20, 2017, 12:38:43 pm
Get what you pay for. If all you're willing to pay is Western Sizzlin' prices for a steak, you get a Western Sizzlin' cut of meat.

If Malzahn comes, it'll be for Flight prices.

In the current market conditions everyone is having to pay Ruth Chris Steak prices and 9 out of 10 customers are receiving dog food instead of steak.  I don't think this can withstand the test of time.

hogsanity

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 12:44:25 pm
This is EXACTLY why I believe the Gus rumors don't hold water. I honestly believe a coach like Mike Norvell will be offered the job because the U of A isn't going to pay 5 Million a year for a head coach.

They might have to pay that much for Norvell if there is a bidding war for his services.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on November 20, 2017, 12:38:43 pm
Get what you pay for. If all you're willing to pay is Western Sizzlin' prices for a steak, you get a Western Sizzlin' cut of meat.

If Malzahn comes, it'll be for Flight prices.
That sounds good and is accurate when talking about tried and true cuts of meat from certain sources. However, when talking about football coaches, it's total bs. Just look at what Arkansas received in exchange for top 10% pay: a pig with lipstick on it. If ever the program bought a pig in a poke, hiring Bielema was the definition of that phrase. So Arkansas paid for Kobe beef tenderloin and received stew meat passed off as Kobe. Thought a pro chef was preparing it but it was cooked in a croc pot. Good job paying this loser $20MM over 5 years and getting a 11-29 SEC record. By the way, that is the worst conference record of all 14 SEC programs over the past 5 years, assuming Arkansas takes another loss this Friday vs Mizzou.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 12:42:28 pm
Good luck finding a quality coach who would agree to that.
You mean like Bielema 5 years ago? Frank quality coaches.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

 

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 12:44:25 pm
This is EXACTLY why I believe the Gus rumors don't hold water. I honestly believe a coach like Mike Norvell will be offered the job because the U of A isn't going to pay 5 Million a year for a head coach.
Norvell ain't coming to this dumpster fire. He'd stay where he is before coming to Arkansas. If he leaves Memphis, he'll end up at TN.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:46:00 pm
They might have to pay that much for Norvell if there is a bidding war for his services.

I would be okay with offering Norvell 3.5 to 4 Million a year with incentivees. He really wants the job so I doubt a bidding war will occur.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:49:03 pm
Norvell ain't coming to this dumpster fire. He'd stay where he is before coming to Arkansas. If he leaves Memphis, he'll end up at TN.

He's pretty well let it be known that he wants the Arkansas job. Besides, Tennessee wants a big name coach.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 12:52:51 pm
He's pretty well let it be known that he wants the Arkansas job. Besides, Tennessee wants a big name coach.
Who has he told this to, so that you know it as well?
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

Danny J

Quote from: hawgon on November 20, 2017, 12:28:48 pm
What do you know?  One more thread about how we can't compete from the broken record.
Yep and Henry was just spouting nonsense...yes we are spending hundreds of millions on football practice facilities and stadium expansion but the BOT is worried we will be spending an extra million a year on a HC...it's beyond absurd to think that is a legit concern. It may have been an excuse by a certain BOT member who will not be named PRYOR cough cough...

If Gus wants more than what he is making at Auburn he will get it as long as it's within reason obviously

Danny J

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on November 20, 2017, 12:38:43 pm
Get what you pay for. If all you're willing to pay is Western Sizzlin' prices for a steak, you get a Western Sizzlin' cut of meat.

If Malzahn comes, it'll be for Flight prices.
Makes sense to me!!!

hogsanity

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 12:50:12 pm
I would be okay with offering Norvell 3.5 to 4 Million a year with incentivees. He really wants the job so I doubt a bidding war will occur.

So 3.5 to 4mil PLUS incentives for a guy that has 2 years HC experience ANYWHERE. I think that is what HIM is talking about.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

GuvHog

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:54:04 pm
Who has he told this to, so that you know it as well?

It's been going around Memphis for some time now. Most of their faithful believe he's headed for Fayetteville after the Conference championship game.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 01:01:05 pm
So 3.5 to 4mil PLUS incentives for a guy that has 2 years HC experience ANYWHERE. I think that is what HIM is talking about.
Exactly.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 01:01:05 pm
So 3.5 to 4mil PLUS incentives for a guy that has 2 years HC experience ANYWHERE. I think that is what HIM is talking about.

Yep, the guy's a good coach and his buyout is only $500,000. They don't want to pay a big buyout to get a coach.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

HF#1

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 01:08:46 pm
Yep, the guy's a good coach and his buyout is only $500,000. They don't want to pay a big buyout to get a coach.

Most buyouts are written in such a way so that they are negotiable.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

greenie

Quote from: GuvHog on November 20, 2017, 12:50:12 pm
I would be okay with offering Norvell 3.5 to 4 Million a year with incentivees. He really wants the job so I doubt a bidding war will occur.

Nobody will pay Norvell that much next year.  That would be more risky than any deal that Long ever gave CBB.

Cotton

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
But we've been paying top 10% salary and receiving bottom 10% P5 conference production and results. So why continue to pay $4MM+ when we are basically gambling on what we will get? Literally a roll of the dice. Just betting on the come.

How about a contract structured with some [CENSORED] incentives instead of big pay guaranteed for half a decade?

Example, depending on exactly who the coach is and what he has accomplished recently:

Year 1: $1MM
If year 1 not a total fustercluck,
Year 2: $1.5MM
If year 2 is progress, then:
Year 3: $2MM
If year 3  = or > year 2 and all else is satisfactory (athlete and staff behaviors on and off field, academic progress, et al):
Year 4: $3MM
Renegotiate contract after year 4, with new contract based on specified recruiting class rankings and W-L results over past 4 years. Sign new 4 year contract.

And no [CENSORED] buyout clause unless you are Nick Saban.
Every agent would laugh you right out the door.
"Who got a Scantron for Ryan Mallet?"  - Ryan Mallet, 2009

Razorbacks in Mexico

Ponderin' SUX

GuvHog

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 01:09:31 pm
Most buyouts are written in such a way so that they are negotiable.

Only if a University wants get rid of their coach. A University that wants to keep their coach isn't going to negotiate the buyout.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

hogsanity

Quote from: greenie on November 20, 2017, 01:13:14 pm
Nobody will pay Norvell that much next year.  That would be more risky than any deal that Long ever gave CBB.

Really? Texas paid Herman 5mil PLUS incentives, and he had only 2 yr HC experience in the same league as Memphis. Matter of fact, depending on how Memphis finishes Norvel could have an almost identical record in his 2 years that Herman had in his.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

GuvHog

Quote from: greenie on November 20, 2017, 01:13:14 pm
Nobody will pay Norvell that much next year.  That would be more risky than any deal that Long ever gave CBB.

Yes they will. He's going to make over 2 million at Memphis this year after the incentives are added.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Sivad

If the BOT plan is to go cheap and play the nickel slots we may be in for some real disappointment.

hogsanity

Quote from: Sivad on November 20, 2017, 01:20:47 pm
If the BOT plan is to go cheap and play the nickel slots we may be in for some real disappointment.

Well a guy with 2 yrs experience in conf usa is going to cost someone at least 3mil, so going cheap is going to mean a coordinator, likely not from a top p5 school, or a fcs head coach.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

grayhawg

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 12:01:20 pm
If yes, then obviously they can hire anyone that will take the job. If not, that limits the pool they are playing in.

I believe in was Clay Henry that said last week that he was told the BOT is not going to pay like that for a new coach. Part of their dissatisfaction with JL was how much money was being pent on coaches now, how much it was going to take to buy them out. They are not interested in paying that, paying off JL at approx 1.5 mil a year for 5 years, Paying a huge buyout to hire a coach, and then paying him 4mil+ plus assistants.
Who's at fault for allowing that cluster to get to this point?

Cotton

The way the current market is, I don't see anybody taking an SEC job for less that 3.5M/year
"Who got a Scantron for Ryan Mallet?"  - Ryan Mallet, 2009

Razorbacks in Mexico

Ponderin' SUX

Razorbackers

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
But we've been paying top 10% salary and receiving bottom 10% P5 conference production and results. So why continue to pay $4MM+ when we are basically gambling on what we will get? Literally a roll of the dice. Just betting on the come.

How about a contract structured with some [CENSORED] incentives instead of big pay guaranteed for half a decade?

Example, depending on exactly who the coach is and what he has accomplished recently:

Year 1: $1MM
If year 1 not a total fustercluck,
Year 2: $1.5MM
If year 2 is progress, then:
Year 3: $2MM
If year 3  = or > year 2 and all else is satisfactory (athlete and staff behaviors on and off field, academic progress, et al):
Year 4: $3MM
Renegotiate contract after year 4, with new contract based on specified recruiting class rankings and W-L results over past 4 years. Sign new 4 year contract.

And no [CENSORED] buyout clause unless you are Nick Saban.

lolololol

longpig

Quote from: 1highhog on November 20, 2017, 12:09:58 pm
I wish that coaches were paid on performance than just straight out given these huge saleries plus performance based incentives.
You seen Matt Cambell's contract with I St.?
Don't be scared, be smart.

Hogs-n-Roses


1highhog



Hawgzinbowlz

With the increasing SEC money and the fact that football drives the money train we will see continued escalation of HC salaries...With the hope of hitting the jackpot with the next hire. "GO HOGS "