Victories by SEC Teams Over the Last 5 Years

[Albert Einswine]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

[hogsanity]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

[hogsNbeer]

All I got to say is, is that if you have the "refs" as your primary reasoning that we lost this game or that game......It's a sad state of affairs.......  for our program...

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

Quote from Paul Bear Bryant: "No Officials call is EVER meaningless".

[Albert Einswine]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

See GUV,  hogsanity gets it.    The refs did not cost us those games.

Say it,  believe it,  let it go GUV and be free.

[ColinRagan]

It is truly sad that the Arkansas football program has fallen to the depths that we cannot accept the fact that we cannot win on the field.  Officiating errors are part of the game.  Teams that take care of their knitting overcome that.

I could describe several Collage games that would prove your statement about officiating to be False, but to do so would take 2 or 3 paqes and I don't have the time.

GUV I agree that questionable officiating cost us those games, but our team should not have been in the position that officiating could cost us both games.  And for that I place blame squarely on HDN's shoulders

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

See GUV,  hogsanity gets it.    The refs did not cost us those games.

Say it,  believe it,  let it go GUV and be free.

Again, I refer you to my previous posts in this thread.

[pseudorabies]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

Quote from Paul Bear Bryant: "No Officials call is EVER meaningless".

Quote from pseudorabies:  "No post from GUVHOG is EVER meaningful".

[GuvHog]

It is truly sad that the Arkansas football program has fallen to the depths that we cannot accept the fact that we cannot win on the field.  Officiating errors are part of the game.  Teams that take care of their knitting overcome that.

I could describe several Collage games that would prove your statement about officiating to be False, but to do so would take 2 or 3 paqes and I don't have the time.

GUV I agree that questionable officiating cost us those games, but our team should not have been in the position that officiating could cost us both games.  And for that I place blame squarely on HDN's shoulders

Thanks Colin that's the point I've been trying to make all along, That H. Nutt was not
solely to blame for those losses. The officials must get 50% of the blame.

[Albert Einswine]

Guv,

Was it the refs or "playing not-to-lose" in the first half of both games (and many others).

The first halfs were made irrelivant because the Hogs played well enough in the second halfs to win.

I've never heard anyone put forth that one half of a game is irrelevant but the other half is paramount.

GUV,  you are hitting new lows in denial.

Yes, the Hogs Should have played better in the first halfs of both games, and that would have made winning easier. But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating.

As I tell my baseball team ( 8 yr olds ) play the game well enough to win, and 99% of the time you will.  Worry about the umps, and you will lose games you should not.  As long as games are officited by humans, there will be mistakes.  In the 2 games you mentioned, you even admit the Hogs did not play well enough to win in the 1st half, had they done so, those calls would have been meaningless.

See GUV,  hogsanity gets it.    The refs did not cost us those games.

Say it,  believe it,  let it go GUV and be free.

Again, I refer you to my previous posts in this thread.

GUV you have 18 posts in this thread,  specifically which 2 are you referring to.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Citation please for your Coach Bryant quote.  Not familiar with it.  Here, however, are some Coach Bryant quotes that should help you.

"Mama wanted me to be a preacher. I told her coachin' and preachin' were a lot alike." 
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"But it's still a coach's game. Make no mistake. You start at the top. If you don't have a good one at the top, you don't have a cut dog's chance. If you do, the rest falls into place. You have to have good assistants, and a lot of things, but first you have to have the chairman of the board." 
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"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good, then you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you." 



"I think the most important thing of all for any team is a winning attitude. The coaches must have it. The players must have it. The student body must have it. If you have dedicated players who believe in themselves, you don't need a lot of talent." 

"The idea of molding men means a lot to me."



"You must learn how to hold a team together. You must lift some men up, calm others down, until finally they've got one heartbeat. Then you've got yourself a team."   

"If wanting to win is a fault, as some of my critics seem to insist, then I plead guilty. I like to win. I know no other way. It's in my blood." 

"Get the winners into the game." 

"The old lessons (work, self-discipline, sacrifice, teamwork, fighting to achieve) aren't being taught by many people other than football coaches these days. The football coach has a captive audience and can teach these lessons because the communication lines between himself and his players are more wide open than between kids and parents. We better teach these lessons or else the country's future population will be made up of a majority of crooks, drug addicts, or people on relief." 

"Sacrifice. Work. Self-discipline. I teach these things, and my boys don't forget them when they leave." 

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." 

"I'll never give up on a player regardless of his ability as long as he never gives up on himself. In time he will develop." 

"Set goals - high goals for you and your organization. When your organization has a goal to shoot for, you create teamwork, people working for a common good." 

"Don't talk too much. Don't pop off. Don't talk after the game until you cool off." 

"You have to learn what makes this or that Sammy run. For one it's a pat on the back, for another it's eating him out, for still another it's a fatherly talk, or something else. You're a fool if you think as I did as a young coach, that you can treat them all alike." 

"If a man is a quitter, I'd rather find out in practice than in a game. I ask for all a player has so I'll know later what I can expect." 

"Find your own picture, your own self in anything that goes bad. It's awfully easy to mouth off at your staff or chew out players, but if it's bad, and you're the head coach, you're responsible. If we have an intercepted pass, I threw it. I'm the head coach. If we get a punt blocked, I caused it. A bad practice, a bad game, it's up to the head coach to assume his responsibility." 

"It's awfully important to win with humility. It's also important to lose. I hate to lose worse than anyone, but if you never lose you won't know how to act. If you lose with humility, then you can come back." 

"Losing doesn't make me want to quit. It makes me want to fight that much harder." 

"The biggest mistake coaches make is taking borderline cases and trying to save them. I'm not talking about grades now, I'm talking about character. I want to know before a boy enrolls about his home life, and what his parents want him to be." 

"What are you doing here? Tell me why you are here. If you are not here to win a national championship, you're in the wrong place. You boys are special. I don't want my players to be like other students. I want special people. You can learn a lot on the football field that isn't taught in the home, the church, or the classroom. There are going to be days when you think you've got no more to give and then you're going to give plenty more. You are going to have pride and class. You are going to be very special. You are going to win the national championship for Alabama." 

"I'm no innovator. If anything I'm a stealer, or borrower. I've stolen or borrowed from more people than you can shake a stick at." 

"There is no sin in not liking to play; it's a mistake for a boy to be there if he doesn't want to." 

"I'm no miracle man. I guarantee nothing but hard work." 

"Don't overwork your squad. If you're going to make a mistake, under-work them." 

"Be aware of "yes" men. Generally, they are losers. Surround yourself with winners. Never forget - people win." 

"If there is one thing that has helped me as a coach, it's my ability to recognize winners, or good people who can become winners by paying the price." 

"You take those little rascals, talk to them good, pat them on the back, let them think they are good, and they will go out and beat the biguns." 

"If you whoop and holler all the time, the players just get used to it." 

"I know what it takes to win. If I can sell them on what it takes to win, then we are not going to lose too many football games." 

"If you want to coach you have three rules to follow to win. One, surround yourself with people who can't live without football. I've had a lot of them. Two, be able to recognize winners. They come in all forms. And, three, have a plan for everything. A plan for practice, a plan for the game. A plan for being ahead, and a plan for being behind 20-0 at half, with your quarterback hurt and the phones dead, with it raining cats and dogs and no rain gear because the equipment man left it at home." 

"My approach to the game has been the same at all the places I've been. Vanilla. The sure way. That means, first of all, to win physically. If you got eleven on a field, and they beat the other eleven physically, they'll win. They will start forcing mistakes. They'll win in the fourth quarter." 

"Little things make the difference. Everyone is well prepared in the big things, but only the winners perfect the little things." 

"Scout yourself. Have a buddy who coaches scout you. 

"The first time you quit, it's hard. The second time, it gets easier. The third time, you don't even have to think about it." 

"But there's one thing about quitters you have to guard against - they are contagious. If one boy goes, the chances are he'll take somebody with him, and you don't want that. So when they would start acting that way, I used to pack them up and get them out, or embarrass them, or do something to turn them around." 

"There's a lot of blood, sweat, and guts between dreams and success." 

"People who are in it for their own good are individualists. They don't share the same heartbeat that makes a team so great. A great unit, whether it be football or any organization, shares the same heartbeat." 

"I told them my system was based on the "ant plan," that I'd gotten the idea watching a colony of ants in Africa during the war. A whole bunch of ants working toward a common goal." 

"We can't have two standards, one set for the dedicated young men who want to do something ambitious and one set for those who don't." 

"I honestly believe that if you are willing to out-condition the opponent, have confidence in your ability, be more aggressive than your opponent and have a genuine desire for team victory, you will become the national champions. If you have all the above, you will acquire confidence and poise, and you will have those intangibles that win the close ones." 

"If you believe in yourself and have dedication and pride - and never quit - you'll be a winner. The price of victory is high but so are the rewards." 

"Don't ever give up on ability. Don't give up on a player who has it." 

"A good, quick, small team can beat a big, slow team any time." 

"I have always tried to teach my players to be fighters. When I say that, I don't mean put up your dukes and get in a fistfight over something. I'm talking about facing adversity in your life. There is not a person alive who isn't going to have some awfully bad days in their lives. I tell my players that what I mean by fighting is when your house burns down, and your wife runs off with the drummer, and you've lost your job and all the odds are against you. What are you going to do? Most people just lay down and quit. Well, I want my people to fight back." 

"If they don't have a winning attitude, I don't want them." 

"I have tried to teach them to show class, to have pride, and to display character. I think football, winning games, takes care of itself if you do that." 

"I always want my players to show class, knock'em down, pat on the back, and run back to the huddle." 

"I tell young players who want to be coaches, who think they can put up with all the headaches and heartaches, can you live without it? If you can't live without it, don't get in it."

[GuvHog]

Never mind tbw, I like your Bear Bryant Quotes better!

[razorback4ever]

I just don't see it.......   I mean, that team had 5 or 6 go PRO....Some left early.....I dont' see 5 or 6 that could go pro after this year on this team....... That 03 team was argueably the best the HOGS have suited up for a LONG TIME........ No way is this team comparable to that team....IMO


I think the point was that the overall depth and quailty were down. The players you speak of were recruited after the 2000 cotton bowl, but before the investigation started. We may have had some great players in some spots, but they had no quality backups. You just can't win consistantly in the SEC without quality depth. The investigation assured we would be thin on quality depth, which killed us as the season went on. Great players burn out if nobody relieves them, it's just a matter of time.

[GuvHog]

I just don't see it.......   I mean, that team had 5 or 6 go PRO....Some left early.....I dont' see 5 or 6 that could go pro after this year on this team....... That 03 team was argueably the best the HOGS have suited up for a LONG TIME........ No way is this team comparable to that team....IMO0


I think the point was that the overall depth and quailty were down. The players you speak of were recruited after the 2000 cotton bowl, but before the investigation started. We may have had some great players in some spots, but they had no quality backups. You just can't win consistantly in the SEC without quality depth. The investigation assured we would be thin on quality depth, which killed us as the season went on. Great players burn out if nobody relieves them, it's just a matter of time.

BINGO! Good Post! +1

[lyon98]

Guv,

Why do you consider Alabama to be on a downhill slide?  Their probation period is over.  They are back to full scholarship levels.

In 2006 their recruiting class was 18th in the nation and sixth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2005 their recruiting class was 16th in the nation and fourth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2004 their recruiting class was 19th in the nation and fifth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)

They have the best defensive coordinator in the SEC in Joe Kines.

Why do you see a dropoff?

Alabama is not on a downhill slide yet, but this year will start one.
The 3 Bama classes you mentioned are all overated, and the next 2 years will prove that.
Joe Kines is NOT the #1 DC in the SEC, Reggie Herring is and you're about to find that out too.

It depends on who has the most nfl candidates.

[Albert Einswine]

GUV, here is the box score from the '03 Florida game.   As you can clearly see, from the 6:59 mark of the 2nd quarter we trailed in the game.   Our boys went on a furious rally in the 4th quarter but still trailed by 5 with under 2 minutes to play when Bua made his ill fated play.

So how on earth can you say the refs cost us the game?   We were behind and all that could have been cost is the chance to go ahead,  which is never guaranteed.

While technically I don't think Bua's hit on Leak was correct (initial contact was not to the helmet) 10 out 10 times in that particular situation (where a quarterback has released the ball) that is what is going to be called.   That being said,  your insistence on the refs costing us this game is laughable.


Scoring Summary                                                                       Score
FIRST QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 2:46 CEDRIC COBBS 7 YD RUN (CHRIS BALSEIRO KICK)
Drive info: 4 plays, 69 yards. 0 7                                          Fla  0           UA  7
SECOND QUARTER FLA ARK
FG 11:42 MATT LEACH 33 YD FG
Drive info: 6 plays, 31 yards. 3 7                                          Fla  3           UA  7
TD 6:59 CIATRICK FASON 33 YD PASS FROM CHRIS LEAK
Drive info: 5 plays, 64 yards. 10 7                                        Fla 10           UA  7
FG 5:15 MATT LEACH 39 YD FG
Drive info: 7 plays, 26 yards. 13 7                                        Fla 13           UA  7
THIRD QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 14:41 CIATRICK FASON 75 YD RUN (FAILED 2PT PASS)
Drive info: 1 plays, 75 yards. 19 7                                        Fla 19           UA  7
TD 2:03 DESHAWN WYNN 17 YD RUN (MATT LEACH KICK)
Drive info: 6 plays, 62 yards. 26 7                                        Fla 26           UA  7
FOURTH QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 8:46 KEIWAN RATLIFF 44 YD INTERCEPTION RETURN          Fla 33           UA  7
TD 7:21 RICHARD SMITH 12 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 5 plays, 64 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA 14
TD 5:09 JASON PETERS 8 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 3 plays, 82 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA 21
TD 3:11 RICHARD SMITH 10 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 5 plays, 34 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA28

[GuvHog]

GUV, here is the box score from the '03 Florida game.   As you can clearly see, from the 6:59 mark of the 2nd quarter we trailed in the game.   Our boys went on a furious rally in the 4th quarter but still trailed by 5 with under 2 minutes to play when Bua made his ill fated play.

So how on earth can you say the refs cost us the game?   We were behind and all that could have been cost is the chance to go ahead,  which is never guaranteed.

While technically I don't think Bua's hit on Leak was correct (initial contact was not to the helmet) 10 out 10 times in that particular situation (where a quarterback has released the ball) that is what is going to be called.   That being said,  your insistence on the refs costing us this game is laughable.


Scoring Summary                                                                       Score
FIRST QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 2:46 CEDRIC COBBS 7 YD RUN (CHRIS BALSEIRO KICK)
Drive info: 4 plays, 69 yards. 0 7                                          Fla  0           UA  7
SECOND QUARTER FLA ARK
FG 11:42 MATT LEACH 33 YD FG
Drive info: 6 plays, 31 yards. 3 7                                          Fla  3           UA  7
TD 6:59 CIATRICK FASON 33 YD PASS FROM CHRIS LEAK
Drive info: 5 plays, 64 yards. 10 7                                        Fla 10           UA  7
FG 5:15 MATT LEACH 39 YD FG
Drive info: 7 plays, 26 yards. 13 7                                        Fla 13           UA  7
THIRD QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 14:41 CIATRICK FASON 75 YD RUN (FAILED 2PT PASS)
Drive info: 1 plays, 75 yards. 19 7                                        Fla 19           UA  7
TD 2:03 DESHAWN WYNN 17 YD RUN (MATT LEACH KICK)
Drive info: 6 plays, 62 yards. 26 7                                        Fla 26           UA  7
FOURTH QUARTER FLA ARK
TD 8:46 KEIWAN RATLIFF 44 YD INTERCEPTION RETURN          Fla 33           UA  7
TD 7:21 RICHARD SMITH 12 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 5 plays, 64 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA 14
TD 5:09 JASON PETERS 8 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 3 plays, 82 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA 21
TD 3:11 RICHARD SMITH 10 YD PASS FROM MATT JONES
Drive info: 5 plays, 34 yards.                                               Fla 33           UA28

With the Momentum the Hogs had, I have no doubt that the Hogs would have scored
and won the game. The Refs horrible call stopped that from happening. The Hogs played poorly earlier yes, but played well enough later to give themselves a chance to win the  game. The
Ref took that away.

[Albert Einswine]

GUV,  you have a feeling.  You don't know anything about what might have been and to say otherwise is foolishness and you know it.

[GuvHog]

GUV,  you have a feeling.  You don't know anything about what might have been and to say otherwise is foolishness and you know it.

You're welcomed to your opinion, but I still say there was no doubt in my mind.

[hogsanity]

I THINK the Hogs would have scored.  I KNOW Bua led with his head. 

[GorillaJMonsoon]

Guv,

You are counting chickens before they hatch.  No score is guaranteed until it is on the board.  The refs did not cost us a guaranteed score, they only called a personal foul which was correct (but heartbreaking nonetheless) which nullified the interception. 

My favorite Bear quote form above was this one:
"Be aware of "yes" men. Generally, they are losers. Surround yourself with winners. Never forget - people win."

[Conway Cool Daddy]

If Cadillac doesn't rush for over 150 yards and Kewan Ratliff doesn't catch every pass we throw we win those games hands down. I just know it. Oh yeah, and the refs, they cost us the game as well. It was also a little hot those days, we can't be expected to play hard for an entire game when its hot.
Can we come up with any more excuses...........?

[GuvHog]

I THINK the Hogs would have scored.  I KNOW Bua led with his head. 

You are correct Bua led with his head, but That was not the call. The call was an illegal, late blow to the QBs head. Bua was Not late, Connected withthe QBs chest then slid up to his head,
Thus a legal blow. Again, You're welcome to your opinion, But there's no doubt in my mind.

[arkbengal]

There appear to be three distinct levels.

Georgia (52)
LSU (51)
Auburn (46)
Tennessee (44)
Florida (42)

Alabama (37)
Arkansas (34)
South Carolina (32) 
Ole Miss (31)

Kentucky (18)
Mississippi State (14)
Vanderbilt (13)

Not only that, but to sort of combine this with another thread:

Interesting how those top 5 teams also seem to be the ones at the top of the recruiting results every year. Coincidence???
I don't think so. You have to have a good coach to win (especially in SEC), but part of a good coach is recruiting. I would say the results are about as expected.

[wincrimson]

Not bad considering everyone has been playing with 20 more scholarship players than us.

[Albert Einswine]

GUV,  you have a feeling.  You don't know anything about what might have been and to say otherwise is foolishness and you know it.

You're welcomed to your opinion, but I still say there was no doubt in my mind.

It's an obstinate man who won't concede that his position lacks merit when the facts are glaring and all observers agree that he is wrong.  GUV,  you are that man.

The play that led to the call cost us a last chance,  not a victory.

[hogsNbeer]

GUV,  you have a feeling.  You don't know anything about what might have been and to say otherwise is foolishness and you know it.

You're welcomed to your opinion, but I still say there was no doubt in my mind.

It's an obstinate man who won't concede that his position lacks merit when the facts are glaring and all observers agree that he is wrong.  GUV,  you are that man.

The play that led to the call cost us a last chance,  not a victory.

Well put my friend......+1

[ColinRagan]

I say as talented as that team was, we should not have been in the position that a couple of questionable calls by the refs, could either cost us the game or cost us our last chance of winning the game, especially at home.  The coaches did not do what it takes to prepare our team to win those games.

[WilsonHog]

Guv, please learn the difference between fact and opinion/speculation.

For example, if you say that we lost the Auburn game in 2003, that is a FACT because we have the record book to prove it.

However, if you say the officials cost us the Auburn game, that is opinion/speculation. In order for it to be a fact, we would have to have the benefit of a crystal ball and be able to see three things: (1) that the touchdown wasn't called back; (2) that beginning with the Auburn series immediately after we scored both teams would have called the exact same plays in the exact same sequence with the exact same result; and (3) that we won. That's called evidence.

You, however, can't assert your position as a FACT because to do so you would be assuming FACTS not in evidence. In the absence of facts, you can only state what you BELIEVE, which everyone can then take with a grain of salt.   

[razorback4ever]

Boy GUV, you sure stepped in it. You know, Koolaid washes that stuff off shoes pretty good.

Keep believing Baby!

[rzrbaxfan]

Ok, lets give Guv a couple of games back that the ref's took, and even throw in a couple of more "woulda coulda shoulda's"...we are still in the middle 3rd of the SEC, we still have a horrible record against the upper 3rd of the SEC, and still occasionally lose to the teams in the lower 3rd of the SEC. 

Hummm...what were we arguing about again?

[GuvHog]

Ok, lets give Guv a couple of games back that the ref's took, and even throw in a couple of more "woulda coulda shoulda's"...we are still in the middle 3rd of the SEC, we still have a horrible record against the upper 3rd of the SEC, and still occasionally lose to the teams in the lower 3rd of the SEC. 

Hummm...what were we arguing about again?

Now that I won't argue with. I agree, but that's about to change.

[HognotinMemphis]

It's only a matter of time before Spurrier and S Carolina surpass us....... and we'll be 8th in the SEC... it could be this year....

Ole Miss could move in front of us in the next few years if Orgeron keeps recruiting like he did this year.

[HognotinMemphis]

Guv,

You are counting chickens before they hatch.  No score is guaranteed until it is on the board.  The refs did not cost us a guaranteed score, they only called a personal foul which was correct (but heartbreaking nonetheless) which nullified the interception. 

My favorite Bear quote form above was this one:
"Be aware of "yes" men. Generally, they are losers. Surround yourself with winners. Never forget - people win."

yes man = Markuson. He is a loser.

[WilsonHog]

It's only a matter of time before Spurrier and S Carolina surpass us....... and we'll be 8th in the SEC... it could be this year....

Ole Miss could move in front of us in the next few years if Orgeron keeps recruiting like he did this year.

And if Orgeron learns (1) to hire great assistant coaches and let them work and (2) to adopt the philosophy in my signature line.

[HatfieldHog]

Our victory total should start to increase after two horrible years.
Also take into effect the schedules of LSU and Auburn who are known for playing
incredibly weak out of conference games (in addition to getting to play Arkansas) . There SOS has cost them in the national polls the last couple of years.

It SHOULD increase..I agree.......... but it doesn't mean it's going to happen..... Remember, 03 season..... We return many players, 5 or 6 went to the pros after that season---- and NUTT could only MUSTER a very sad 4-4 in the SEC.........   Just because it SHOULD doesn't mean it WILL........ We have a LONG LONG way to go still....

That 2003 Hog team wasn't nearly as talent AND deep as this years team. I'll agree
there are a couple of thin spots depth wise, but as for the Starters overall they're
more talented than the 03 team on both sides of the ball. Add to the different and BETTER
OC, QB coach, and DC. the wait will be far shorter than you think.

It's amazing how we go out on a limb and "speculate" on things that we have absolutely '0' proof of....
     -Better OC, I'm glad that Nutt is supposedly out of the play calling
       business, but, there is no way that the '06 team will come close to
       the numbers that the '03 team put up.
     -Better QB coach?  We have no idea if he is better or not, he hasn't
       coached a down at Arkansas yet.
     -I'll give you one on DC!  Herring is better, looking at the last 4 or 5
       games from last year.  '03 Defence couldn't stop a cough.

I am more and more convinced every day of one fact about Arkansas Fans:  We are closely related to Cub Fans, we can believe that we're gonna win, even if there is much evidence to the contrary!

Go Cubs!      See ya

[Richard_white]

Guv,

Why do you consider Alabama to be on a downhill slide?  Their probation period is over.  They are back to full scholarship levels.

In 2006 their recruiting class was 18th in the nation and sixth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2005 their recruiting class was 16th in the nation and fourth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2004 their recruiting class was 19th in the nation and fifth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)

They have the best defensive coordinator in the SEC in Joe Kines.

Why do you see a dropoff?

Alabama is not on a downhill slide yet, but this year will start one.
The 3 Bama classes you mentioned are all overated, and the next 2 years will prove that.
Joe Kines is NOT the #1 DC in the SEC, Reggie Herring is and you're about to find that out too.

If anything you can make me laugh.  Reggie is recruiting like he is the #1 DC in the SEC.  How many WR's that GUS recruits will Reggie bring over to play LB or DE?  Joe Kines is far better at game planning than Reggie.  Hell, I will go a step further and say that Joe Lee Dunn is a better DC.  Of course Guv, this is only my opinion.

[GuvHog]

Our victory total should start to increase after two horrible years.
Also take into effect the schedules of LSU and Auburn who are known for playing
incredibly weak out of conference games (in addition to getting to play Arkansas) . There SOS has cost them in the national polls the last couple of years.

It SHOULD increase..I agree.......... but it doesn't mean it's going to happen..... Remember, 03 season..... We return many players, 5 or 6 went to the pros after that season---- and NUTT could only MUSTER a very sad 4-4 in the SEC.........   Just because it SHOULD doesn't mean it WILL........ We have a LONG LONG way to go still....

That 2003 Hog team wasn't nearly as talent AND deep as this years team. I'll agree
there are a couple of thin spots depth wise, but as for the Starters overall they're
more talented than the 03 team on both sides of the ball. Add to the different and BETTER
OC, QB coach, and DC. the wait will be far shorter than you think.

It's amazing how we go out on a limb and "speculate" on things that we have absolutely '0' proof of....
     -Better OC, I'm glad that Nutt is supposedly out of the play calling
       business, but, there is no way that the '06 team will come close to
       the numbers that the '03 team put up.
     -Better QB coach?  We have no idea if he is better or not, he hasn't
       coached a down at Arkansas yet.
     -I'll give you one on DC!  Herring is better, looking at the last 4 or 5
       games from last year.  '03 Defence couldn't stop a cough.

I am more and more convinced every day of one fact about Arkansas Fans:  We are closely related to Cub Fans, we can believe that we're gonna win, even if there is much evidence to the contrary!

Go Cubs!      See ya

What in the world makes you think this years Hog Offense won't put up as good or better numbers than the 03 offense? This years O Line is More talented more experienced and
deeper than the 03 O line. This years Offensive backfield is also better and deeper than
the 03 backfield. GM & AW will add plays that will make this offense more wide open than the 03
offense. this years offense will be better than the 03 offense.

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Why do you consider Alabama to be on a downhill slide?  Their probation period is over.  They are back to full scholarship levels.

In 2006 their recruiting class was 18th in the nation and sixth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2005 their recruiting class was 16th in the nation and fourth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)
In 2004 their recruiting class was 19th in the nation and fifth in the SEC.  (ahead of Arkansas)

They have the best defensive coordinator in the SEC in Joe Kines.

Why do you see a dropoff?

Alabama is not on a downhill slide yet, but this year will start one.
The 3 Bama classes you mentioned are all overated, and the next 2 years will prove that.
Joe Kines is NOT the #1 DC in the SEC, Reggie Herring is and you're about to find that out too.

If anything you can make me laugh.  Reggie is recruiting like he is the #1 DC in the SEC.  How many WR's that GUS recruits will Reggie bring over to play LB or DE?  Joe Kines is far better at game planning than Reggie.  Hell, I will go a step further and say that Joe Lee Dunn is a better DC.  Of course Guv, this is only my opinion.

You think Joe Lee is better than Reggie? Tell that to the Memphis Tigers, they couldn't
stop JACK last year.

[Richard_white]

Well look at the numbers from last year.  First 6 games Arkansas gave up 227 passing yards/game.  I think they gave up almost 5 yards/carry.  Yeah they improved their defense last 5 games but considering the last 5 teams they faced, were pretty much bottom feeders. (except for LSU)  I didn't think it was as crazy as when you said 06 team is more talented then the 03 team. 

[GuvHog]

Well look at the numbers from last year.  First 6 games Arkansas gave up 227 passing yards/game.  I think they gave up almost 5 yards/carry.  Yeah they improved their defense last 5 games but considering the last 5 teams they faced, were pretty much bottom feeders. (except for LSU)  I didn't think it was as crazy as when you said 06 team is more talented then the 03 team. 

Richard, the 03 Oline had no depth, the running backs weren't near as talented as this years,
and the hogs had an All-American wide reciever playing Quarterback with no depth behind
him. How in the world can you think that team was more talented than this years?

[Richard_white]

Well look at the numbers from last year.  First 6 games Arkansas gave up 227 passing yards/game.  I think they gave up almost 5 yards/carry.  Yeah they improved their defense last 5 games but considering the last 5 teams they faced, were pretty much bottom feeders. (except for LSU)  I didn't think it was as crazy as when you said 06 team is more talented then the 03 team. 

Richard, the 03 Oline had no depth, the running backs weren't near as talented as this years,
and the hogs had an All-American wide reciever playing Quarterback with no depth behind
him. How in the world can you think that team was more talented than this years?

Well for one Guv, the 06 team hasn't played a game yet.  Let's make that decision after the 06 season.

[GorillaJMonsoon]

I don't often tell people that they are flat out wrong, but for you, I will make an exception.  Here is the picture and the quote.  They trump the hell out of what your gut tells you.  This was not only a late hit, but also a head-to-head hit on the QB.  so not only was it a personal foul, it was two personal fouls in one play. 

"I hit him head-to-head," said Bua, who had no problem with the call. "To see that flag, it makes you want to go crawl in a hole somewhere. You know you're the most hated man in Arkansas right now."

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/101903/col_13819327.shtml

[hogsNbeer]

I don't often tell people that they are flat out wrong, but for you, I will make an exception.  Here is the picture and the quote.  They trump the hell out of what your gut tells you.  This was not only a late hit, but also a head-to-head hit on the QB.  so not only was it a personal foul, it was two personal fouls in one play. 

"I hit him head-to-head," said Bua, who had no problem with the call. "To see that flag, it makes you want to go crawl in a hole somewhere. You know you're the most hated man in Arkansas right now."

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/101903/col_13819327.shtml

Well Gorilla..... He for sure can't refute that......Wish I could have found that........

[EastexHawg]

I don't often tell people that they are flat out wrong, but for you, I will make an exception.  Here is the picture and the quote.  They trump the hell out of what your gut tells you.  This was not only a late hit, but also a head-to-head hit on the QB.  so not only was it a personal foul, it was two personal fouls in one play. 

"I hit him head-to-head," said Bua, who had no problem with the call. "To see that flag, it makes you want to go crawl in a hole somewhere. You know you're the most hated man in Arkansas right now."

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/101903/col_13819327.shtml

Oh, shiite. 

The walls of reality are about to come crashing down once again...and another "apology" can't be far behind.

Wait...don't tell me.  Bua had ALREADY gone airborne BEFORE Leak let go of the ball.  He was only making a brief pit stop on the ground on the way to his totally, completely legal, helmet to chest tackle...

A touch and go landing of sorts, I suppose...

I was in the stands that day, and I wasn't mad at the ref for making the call.  I was pissed at Bua for...once again...making a stupid, out of control play that cost his team a chance to win the game. 

He saw a chance to take a shot at Leak and draw a bunch of oohs and ahhs from the crowd...and maybe make the highlight reel on Sportscenter.  From the standpoint of helping the team, there was absolutely no sense in doing what he did.  He was not in position to make the play...but he took his shot anyway.

[GorillaJMonsoon]

I already PM'ed GUV so that he could come on over and read my post, but that was almost an hour ago, so I doubt he will respond.  Its easier to ignore the facts that it is to admit that they prove you wrong.  for the record, here is what he said:

"How in the world did you expect H. Nutt to stop the officials from doing hose jobs on the Hogs
in the 03 Auburn & Florida games? In both Games the Hogs played well enough in th SECOND
HALF to win and the Officials took those wins away."

"In the FLorida game the Hogs had Momentum, intercepted a pass,
and would have scored to at least send the game to overtime but again a horrible call
against Tony Bua took that game away."

"the call on Bua was incorrect, the replay clearly showed that Bua Made contact first with the QBs chest and slid up to his head, and it wasn't late, Bua had allready left his feet to make contact when the ball left the QBs hand."

"But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating."

"The officials must get 50% of the blame"

"I have no doubt that the Hogs would have scored
and won the game. The Refs horrible call stopped that from happening. The Hogs played poorly earlier yes, but played well enough later to give themselves a chance to win the  game. The
Ref took that away."

"You are correct Bua led with his head, but That was not the call. The call was an illegal, late blow to the QBs head. Bua was Not late, Connected withthe QBs chest then slid up to his head,
Thus a legal blow. Again, You're welcome to your opinion, But there's no doubt in my mind."

Guv,  if you want to retain any ounce of credibility here, then maybe you should respond.

[pseudorabies]

I already PM'ed GUV so that he could come on over and read my post, but that was almost an hour ago, so I doubt he will respond.  Its easier to ignore the facts that it is to admit that they prove you wrong.  for the record, here is what he said:

"How in the world did you expect H. Nutt to stop the officials from doing hose jobs on the Hogs
in the 03 Auburn & Florida games? In both Games the Hogs played well enough in th SECOND
HALF to win and the Officials took those wins away."

"In the FLorida game the Hogs had Momentum, intercepted a pass,
and would have scored to at least send the game to overtime but again a horrible call
against Tony Bua took that game away."

"the call on Bua was incorrect, the replay clearly showed that Bua Made contact first with the QBs chest and slid up to his head, and it wasn't late, Bua had allready left his feet to make contact when the ball left the QBs hand."

"But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating."

"The officials must get 50% of the blame"

"I have no doubt that the Hogs would have scored
and won the game. The Refs horrible call stopped that from happening. The Hogs played poorly earlier yes, but played well enough later to give themselves a chance to win the  game. The
Ref took that away."

"You are correct Bua led with his head, but That was not the call. The call was an illegal, late blow to the QBs head. Bua was Not late, Connected withthe QBs chest then slid up to his head,
Thus a legal blow. Again, You're welcome to your opinion, But there's no doubt in my mind."

Guv,  if you want to retain any ounce of credibility here, then maybe you should respond.

He lost his credibility a long long time ago.

[hogsNbeer]

I already PM'ed GUV so that he could come on over and read my post, but that was almost an hour ago, so I doubt he will respond.  Its easier to ignore the facts that it is to admit that they prove you wrong.  for the record, here is what he said:

"How in the world did you expect H. Nutt to stop the officials from doing hose jobs on the Hogs
in the 03 Auburn & Florida games? In both Games the Hogs played well enough in th SECOND
HALF to win and the Officials took those wins away."

"In the FLorida game the Hogs had Momentum, intercepted a pass,
and would have scored to at least send the game to overtime but again a horrible call
against Tony Bua took that game away."

"the call on Bua was incorrect, the replay clearly showed that Bua Made contact first with the QBs chest and slid up to his head, and it wasn't late, Bua had allready left his feet to make contact when the ball left the QBs hand."

"But the fact remains that the Hogs played well enough in the SECOND
HALVES of both games to win reguardless of how they played in the first halves, and would have done so were it not for Horrible officiating."

"The officials must get 50% of the blame"

"I have no doubt that the Hogs would have scored
and won the game. The Refs horrible call stopped that from happening. The Hogs played poorly earlier yes, but played well enough later to give themselves a chance to win the  game. The
Ref took that away."

"You are correct Bua led with his head, but That was not the call. The call was an illegal, late blow to the QBs head. Bua was Not late, Connected withthe QBs chest then slid up to his head,
Thus a legal blow. Again, You're welcome to your opinion, But there's no doubt in my mind."

Guv,  if you want to retain any ounce of credibility here, then maybe you should respond.

I am waiting for this.....

[GorillaJMonsoon]

Here is another quote of Guv's from another thread:
"When a post of mine is proven to be incorrect (and there have been a lot) I quickly
and without hesitation apologize."

Let's hear it then.  You seem to run around spouting things that are patently false, expecting others to set you straight.  Maybe you should check your facts, form an opinion, then talk about your opinion. Not the other way around.