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Would Arkansas ever join the Big 12?

Started by 20/20Ag, April 07, 2007, 11:28:59 pm

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20/20Ag

A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

Ulysses_S_Grunt


 

tenhog

It would be great to play some of the old SWC teams again like Texas,Texas Tech, and Texas a&m, but it won't happen because of the money and the prestige of the SEC.

lrmtnhog

Won't happen as long as Broyles is at the helm.

cradlehog

SEC to Big 12 is a step down - but thanks!

HogginDaze

I think the SEC brings in more money than the B12 would. But we would win more in basketball and football in terms of titles in the B12 (if for nothing more than it would open up texas for us again and the B12 is typically not as deep athletically as the SEC). The B12 is a more natural fit for us geographically.

Newport Hog

Big 12 Football sux, except for OU and Texas and Texas AM, the rest of these school have nothing on SEC football so heck no.

OKCHogFan

I have a church friend who was a friend of Nutt's at OSU.  He said Nutt told him if Colorado ever left the Big 12, Arkansas would join the Big 12 North Division.

JEM


ark30inf

Quote from: 20/20Ag on April 07, 2007, 11:28:59 pm
A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

No, the SEC is awesome.  But A&M should come on over with us and LSU.

stuckpig

A&M won't come unless Texas comes. the SEC invited them before us and A&M turned the SEC down.

Pork Twain

I hope not...

That is like trading in a Corvette for a Grand Am.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

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help-us-butch

SEC asked a&m before us? i dont see that considering i know how to read a map

 

20/20Ag

I think by dropping light weight schools like ISU and Mizzou and adding LSU and Arkansas it would bring more football prestige to the Big 12.  To be honest, we almost forget who is in the North division in the Big 12.  I think the Southern Division in the Big 12 can stack up with any other division in College Athletics, the North really brings nothing to the table.  It's a pipe dream, but I really think a conference with OU, A&M, UT, Arkansas, and LSU would really be a power.

Pork Twain

I think a conference with Tenn, Fla, Ala, Aub, LSU and Ark is pretty good and we play basketball too.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Marat

I would have been for this big time if we had done it in the beginning, but not now. It would be nice to play the some of the old SWC teams like Texas and A&M, but the rest doesn't have the same feel to it. It's been 15 years in the SEC now, and still we are like newcomers, still trying to establish rivalries. I wouldn't want to start over. Besides that, it would be hard to get excited playing some of those teams as compared to the SEC games, where nearly every week is an awesome game.

I live in Austin, TX now and would like Arkansas games to be closer, but I'd still rather them being in the SEC against the best competition than taking an easier route just due to geography.

faulknercohog

I thought it was talked about joining the Big 8 in the late 70s

bcdeputy

I for one think a jump to the Big 12 would be great.  Especially if LSU comes with us (I don't see it ever happening,  but it would be great if it did).  By the way what will happen to Iowa State and Missouri.  One could join the Big Ten giving them an even 12 teams,  but what about the other?  Conference USA?

LSPRazorbac

Quote from: BeoPig on April 08, 2007, 12:49:52 am
I think a conference with Tenn, Fla, Ala, Aub, LSU and Ark is pretty good and we play basketball too.

And Georgia

How bout get rid of Sissy State and Vanderbilt and move Texass and A&M to the SEC

bkofkells

Hell No! Arkansas is a Southern state with Southern sensibilites in everything from cooking to our politics and religion. Maybe those new comers in NWA want to try to turn it into the Midwest but it won't happen. Pass the grits please.

hawaiianhogster

Yes. There's one reason for doing this if it was to happen. The reason would be that we are actually losers and aren't good enough to be in a real BCS conference to begin with. It would be a copout.

RazorBassin


DocHogliday

Heck, I've seen aTm and KU boards -- you guys are pretty frustrated with the Big 12.  Even heard aTm folks say they want to ditch it to come over to the SEC!

No way the Hogs would go.  SEC is the #1 conference.  Take a look at our facilities since joining.  WAY too much $$$ to be had as a member of the SEC.  Perhaps once "super conferences" are viewed as regular conferences with 12 members, the SEC can raid the Big 12 and expand to a 14 team league with Texas and A&M.  There was talk of that originally in the late 80's when the SEC was looking to expand.  FSU was in those discussions as well, but Arkansas and Carolina took the opportunity and never looked back.

Come on over!
I beg to differ, sir. We started a game we never got to finish. "Play for Blood," remember?

wideglide

Quote from: bcdeputy on April 08, 2007, 03:49:14 am
I for one think a jump to the Big 12 would be great.  Especially if LSU comes with us (I don't see it ever happening,  but it would be great if it did).  By the way what will happen to Iowa State and Missouri.  One could join the Big Ten giving them an even 12 teams,  but what about the other?  Conference USA?

The only school that I think the Big Ten would consider adding would be Notre Dame. They were invited a number of years ago and declined - I assume that ND didn't want to share any of it's ABC money. If the ABC deal ever dries up who knows?

 

toshortrock

might as well join  the usa conference
Toshortrock,,,,,,GO HOGS/////

owl

If Hute stays as head coach, they may reestablish the AIC and ask us to join
OWL says SUPPORT THE HOGS

hawgsav1

Ok, we don't need to insult other conferences behind a mask of anonymity.  Yes the SEC is probably one of the better conferences money-wise and one of the most competitive.  We were brought into the SEC due to our success in basketball and to add a little more to SEC basketball than just Kentucky.  The SEC is a better fit for us geographically, culturally, and monetarily.  We would probably be able to win a few more Big-12 conferece titles because apart from the power schools in each sport, there are several perennial doormats.  However, I do not see it happening anytime soon.  Arkansas and LSU moving to the Big 12 south would make the Big 12 even more lopsided in the favor of the Big-12 south.  A move I DO see happening sometime soon....Boise State to Pac-10 along with maybe Fresno State.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. - Klingon Proverb

MuskogeeHogFan

April 08, 2007, 07:32:17 am #27 Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 07:34:27 am by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: 20/20Ag on April 07, 2007, 11:28:59 pm
A couple of my friends were talking about a new look Big 12.  The North division never really competes with the South in any sport in the Big 12, outside of Kansas in basketball.  We were talking about how great it would be if we could drop Iowa State and Missouri from the North, send the 2 Oklahoma schools to the North division and add Arkansas and LSU to the Big 12 South.  I think this would be great, it would give us 2 more great athletic programs and would really reunite some old rivalries like Arkansas vs. UT and A&M vs. LSU.  I know you guys may be very comfortable in the SEC, it's arguably one of the best conferences in every sport, but I would love to see this done one day.  Thoughts?

There are many here who say that this would be a bad move. I am not so sure. If Iowa State were sent packing and Arkansas moved into the Big 12 North, they might be in a classic position. Granted, with revenue sharing in the conferences the way it is, I believe the SEC is slightly ahead of the Big 12, but not by that much so that would not be much of step down. Arkansas, being in the Big 12 and being geographically situated where they are, could recruit better in Texas and still maintain their ties to the southeast....this could be nothing but good. Additionally, in the absence of HDN, Arkansas would stand a good chance of competing for the Big 12 North Championship every year. Road trips would be easier(for the most part) to get to for most Arkansas fans and a move to the Big 12 would set up the renewal of rivalries that have tended to go by the wayside in the past years. I think the move might be a great one for the Hogs.

Just my take.
Go Hogs Go!

hawgsav1

Actually, if we moved into the north, it would be tough to renew rivalries due to scheduling conflicts.  I also don't know how much the revenue sharing is, but if it is as close as you make it seem, then maybe it could be a good move.  It might help with recruiting in Texas, but we'll have to see.  We would lose our ties to the southeast though.  i'm still not convinced though.  You bring up good points however.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. - Klingon Proverb

Since 1894

20 / 20 AG -

We seem to have this debate at least once a month.  IMHO, I think most posters believe we fit in better with the Big 12 as far as tradition, history, recruiting and regional appeal.  However, the SEC is the BEST overall authletic conference (all major sports) and the money and prestige will keep us in the SEC for some time.  If the Big 12 could ever match the money, we might have something  to talk about.

Happy Easter
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Newport Hog

SEC rocks, we play Auburn,LSU,Alabama,Ole Miss which are great games with South Carolinia too.  Then we either going to play Tennessee or Georgia with and some years Florida.  Thats an awesome schedule, Big 12 would give us Texas and Texas AM however we dont have a history with OU or OSU and God help up   I dont want us to play Mizzou,Iowa St,KSU,Kansas,Nebraska,Colorado we have no history with these folks and the travel would sux with these teams. SEC has better atomosphere for games than the Big 12.

Arkiebrian


Junkyard Hog


HOG71

Quote from: stuckpig on April 08, 2007, 12:17:58 am
A&M won't come unless Texas comes. the SEC invited them before us and A&M turned the SEC down.

Someone needs to do some reading.....unbelievable

elksnort

As DONEWITHDALE, said, "Please, Please, end this nonsense about joining the big 12"

Jellohawg

If we don't get our house in order, the SEC might send us packing!  What an embarrassment we have been to such a great conference!

Hog in MO

I'd look at dropping Baylor before I would Mizzou.  They're getting ready to have a pretty darn good basketball team with Mike Anderson at the helm - and football looks like its coming around to decent at least.  You guys should have left Baylor where they belong - with SMU, Houston & Rice.

bcdeputy

There you go.  Baylor can join the WAC,  Iowa State can join the Big Ten (since Notre Dame never will due to greed) and we can go the the Big 12. 

JIMMY BOARFFETT

I, personally would like to see Arkansas add teams like Texas and A&M every year and drop a couple of HDN's patsies from the schedule.  That way, when there is a ten win season, there is something legitimate to brag about.  However, I prefer to stay in the SEC.
My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating.

hogfan064

Drop Baylor and add Houston.  Hogs have no interest in the Big 12

Pig_Lebowski


hogfan064

Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on April 08, 2007, 09:04:42 am
I, personally would like to see Arkansas add teams like Texas and A&M every year and drop a couple of HDN's patsies from the schedule.  That way, when there is a ten win season, there is something legitimate to brag about.  However, I prefer to stay in the SEC.

Look at Auburn's OOC schedule last year and look at Arkansas'.  You'll notice our's was the tougher schedule.  The teams we play OOC are similar to every other SEC school's OOC schedule.   HDN and Arkansas would love to play Texas every year, but the Horns have no interest in that.   

The Hawg Marshal


SLC

April 08, 2007, 09:38:50 am #43 Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 09:40:35 am by SLC
For Arkansas this is not a terrible idea. Everyone knows the arguments against but the arguments for (as stated previously):

1) Geography, Fayetteville is closer to numerous schools in the Big 12 (Mizzou, OSU, OU, KS, etc..) than our closest SEC (Ole Miss), someone ran the numbers as far as mileage and geographically we are much closer to the Big 12 schools.  C
Counterargument to this being Fayetteville is in the NWA corner of the state and those good people in the delta are much closer (geographically and culturally) to Ole Miss, Miss St and AL than we are in the NWA corner.  

2) Tradition.   Most of our traditional rivals are in the Big XXII. Primarily Texas (we get up for them more than any of the teams in the SEC), and aTm.

3) Recruiting. If I remember correctly, when we made the move to the SEC we were told that doing so would open many more opportunities for recruiting in the South, ie. Miss, AL, LA, FL etc... My opinion that has not played out near as well as we hoped, of course there are some athletes we have recruited from those areas but TX is still the main state we recruit outside of AR.  

Obviously, the Big XXII is not of the calibre of the SEC but if Arkansas and LSU went to the Big XXII (the BIG XXII dropping Baylor and IA St) this suddenly puts the two conferences on more equal footing.  

What no one says about the SEC is when you look at the main sport of Football, the Miss schools, Vanderbilt and KY are not consistent powerhouses. You remove LSU (and AR) from the SEC and you have only two consistently strong teams in the West, Auburn and AL.  It could be argued that we become stronger (yes, actually field better teams) by moving to the Big XXII where we are playing year in and year out in TX in front of TX kids. My thoughts are speculative, but this is something I love to think about and discuss with others. 
I believe for now most of us would agree that staying in the SEC is more profitable course of action and allows us more time in front of the television audience, but if a coup that involved us and LSU moving to the Big XXII is fun to think about.

Best to everyone

Happy Easter!
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

mword


uams1989

Unless the Razorbacks are placed in the South, the move makes no sense, and why does any one think LSU would have an interest in leaving the SEC?  LSU is one of the original 13 founding members and has far more tradition and rivalries with SEC schools than Arkansas does with Big 12 schools.

Arkansas in the South with Texas, A&M, etc. would help Hog recruiting, but the Texas schools don't see Arkansas as a rival, and the loss of shared revenue and prestige of the SEC would only make Arkansas look more dysfunctional than it already does.

The move, from a national perspective, would appear as a "We're not good enough" move.  Arkansas needs to get its act together on the Hill and rise to the level of its competition, which happens to be the best in the country.
"They got a name for the winners in the world...
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide..."

AnotherSoonerInTx

I'd love to see Arkansas in the Big XII.  Problem is, 1) right now you make more money in the SEC, and 2) it wouldn't work for you unless you could be in the Big XII South.  Sure, Mizzou, KU, and K-State are closer to Fayetteville than any SEC school, but why would you want to give up the SEC for the Big XII North?  Trade the SEC for a rivalry with Missouri?  I don't think so.  It would only work if you could play UT, A&M, OU, and OSU every year. 

I don't see anyone leaving the Big XII any time soon.  Baylor won't leave, as they are at least competitive in every sport now.  Their football team has improved, but is still a bottom feeder.  They can make more $$$ as a Big XII cellar dweller than they could by dominating Conference USA.  Same with Colorado.  They bring a big TV market that doesn't care about college sports, do not have as large of a donor and fan base that the other schools do, and would be near the top of the Mountain West.  But, they can make more $$$ feeding the bottom of a BCS conference.  Iowa State won't leave, as they were one of the original schools of the Big Six conference, and won't be invited to join the Big Ten any time soon.  Same for Mizzou, as the Big Ten is holding out for Notre Dame.  I don't see a spot opening, nor do I see it becoming the Big 14 any time soon.

maximus

thats a really gay idea-its easter how can you say that?
Describe what Marsellus Wallace looks like!

MissouriFan

20/20Ag the problem with your idea of droping Mizzou is you would lose the second most populated state in the conference and the St. Louis and Kansas City Markets.

Lack of TV sets are what hurts the Big 12 more than anything in getting a better tv deal and that's where the money comes from.

What I would like to see happen is a new 12 team conference form from right up the middle of the country.

North
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Wisconson

South
Arkansas
LSU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Texas
Texas A&M

That conference would be able to get good tv deals and $$$ as well as be competitive with any conference in football and basketball.

What the Basketball Attendance would look like. (Using 2006 since 07 info isn’t up yet. Not a good year for Mizzou, it was quin's last year)

Wisconsin – 17,142
Illinois – 16,618
Kansas – 16,300
Arkansas – 14,958
Texas – 13,024
Iowa – 12,006
Oklahoma – 11,805
Oklahoma St. – 11,591
Louisiana State – 9,468
Nebraska – 9,417
Missouri – 8,639
Texas A&M – 8,133

And Football in 06
Louisiana State – 92,212
Texas – 88,505
Nebraska – 85,044
Oklahoma – 84,561
Wisconsin – 81,368
Texas A&M – 75,985
Arkansas – 73,895
Iowa – 70,585
Missouri – 55,918
Kansas – 44,137
Illinois – 43,445
Oklahoma St. – 40,954

Population (Matters for TV $$$)
Texas - 22,859,968
Illinois - 12,763,371
Missouri - 5,800,310
Wisconsin - 5,536,201
Louisiana - 4,523,628
Oklahoma - 3,547,884
Iowa - 2,966,334
Arkansas - 2,779,154
Kansas - 2,744,687
Nebraska - 1,758,787
TOTAL = 65,280,324

Plus it would be fun to see the major shift in conferences that would occur because of this.



wildman

I have a better idea.  We are all wanting to play in the BCS.  Let's join the conference with Louisville, whatever its called.  That's the only way we'll ever make it to the BCS.

Unless, of course, if Nutt could somehow come up with a new game plan, you know, a "secret" game plan. Let's try something new, like "up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, PUNT."

And, let's make sure we brainwash CD and DMAC so they won't use that horrible, insulting, disgrading term, DORK.

And, let's make sure we block the emails from TP. We don't want to give our players the wrong
impression about breast feeding.

And could someone please buy the idiot a cell phone of his own.  And, let's get serious about drug testing. We need to make sure HDN is not overusing Viagra, it could mess up his vision, you know, the delusional one, Up the middle, Up the middle, Up the middle, PUNT.