Recruiting ability vs conference opponents

[defcoach]

I think the biggest part of the problems for the Razorbacks is their recruiting competition.  We probably have the biggest disadvantage, versus our recruiting opponents, of any team in America, in their respective conference.  To win the SEC, we must have SEC talent all the way down the roster.  Go down the list of teams in our conference, and tell me which ones should be easier to recruit kids to Arkansas from.  In our half of the conference, I only think MSU.  If you consider the east, I might add in Kentucky and Vanderbilt.  It was a huge setback for Arkansas recruiting when TAMU entered the SEC.  Until then, we could "steal" some players from Texas that wanted to play in the SEC.  Now they can stay in state and stay in SEC. 

Recruiting is very tough at Arkansas. 

[Pork Twain]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=621672.0

[HF#1]

With the right coach it wouldn't be.

[Pork Twain]

With the right coach it wouldn't be.

It would

[defcoach]

With the right coach it wouldn't be.

Who would that be?  Do you honestly think that recruits would be beating the doors down to come to Fayetteville if Saban or Swinney were here?  They might get a couple that we aren't getting for a year or two, but don't think it would last long...

[Pork Twain]

Who would that be?  Do you honestly think that recruits would be beating the doors down to come to Fayetteville if Saban or Swinney were here?  They might get a couple that we aren't getting for a year or two, but don't think it would last long...

I believe there are a handful of coaches that could get it done here, but they are already locked up at better programs and for more money than we could touch.  There are very few coaches that can pull in recruits by name alone, but they do exist.

[defcoach]

I believe there are a handful of coaches that could get it done here, but they are already locked up at better programs and for more money than we could touch.  There are very few coaches that can pull in recruits by name alone, but they do exist.

Give me some examples.  I cant think of many...  Some of the spread guys can get a great QB and WR's, but what coach on name alone, can get any and every position?  Kids go to places like Bama, Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, because of the school, not necessarily the coach...

[Piggfoot]

Since moving to the SEC we have not had a coach capable of building a repeatable, reloadable team. There have been coaches who have had very good recruiting classes which have resulted a good teams for a year or two but I question whether or not these successes were due to a coaches ability  or were they the result of being the recipient of exceptional Arkansas players which come along from time to time. Personally I give more credence to the later.

I believe those fans who think we can recruit on an equal basis with the SEC elite are either uneducated, smoking dope or both.

After this year we have beaten at least once, every team in the SEC.  But we are not and may never be on an equal basis with the SEC Elite. Who are the SEC elite teams? Well you can put Alabama at the top. The middle and Lower tiers are muddled.

We have some very good players and if they perform in a mistake free manner we can compete with any team in the SEC and perhaps win on any given day. We do not have 4 and 5 stars sitting on the bench to replace an injured player or a player that is not having his best day.

It is very simple to look at the states and tell who produces the best players. As Arkansans we want every good player the state produces and we want every player to be ardent life long Hog fans. Believe it or not the other schools want the same loyalty from their state players and most of the time they get it. If we want better players, we will have to change our recruiting method$.

[phadedhawg]

To be successful in the SEC we will need to find a final solution for the Alabama question. 

Alabama needs to be dismantled.  They've made the conference so top heavy that none of the other schools can find their footing.  Teams with a built in disadvantage such as Arkansas suffer more for it than others. 

Maybe if Clemson does the unthinkable, Nick Saban will decided he'd rather to do something else.  When that happens there will be a reordering of power in the SEC and maybe we come out better for it. 

meh...who knows...it's just a thought.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

If we want better players, we will have to change our recruiting method$.

How much did Ole Miss accomplish using this methodology? Losing season this year. Recruiting is back in the tank. And the NCAA is about to pluck every pubic hair they ever thought about growing as a program.

[Piggfoot]

How much did Ole Miss accomplish using this methodology? Losing season this year. Recruiting is back in the tank. And the NCAA is about to pluck every pubic hair they ever thought about growing as a program.

Just kidding on that last sentence.

[Pork Twain]

Give me some examples.  I cant think of many...  Some of the spread guys can get a great QB and WR's, but what coach on name alone, can get any and every position?  Kids go to places like Bama, Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, because of the school, not necessarily the coach...

There are a few coaches that have built or rebuilt winning programs wherever they go and there are a couple that would draw recruits based on name and past results alone.
These guys are the only ones I can name off the top of my head that would even have a chance, but even then they would never make us into a Bama or Ohio St.

Urban Meyer
Nick Satan
Dabo Swinney

Outside looking in
Bob Stoops
Chris Peterson
Chip Kelly
Gary Patterson
Brett
Bobby

[GoHogzzGo]

We are capable of winning 9-10 with our current recruiting succeess. The difference from #21 to #17 is not that much. And we would lose our mind at #17.

Coaching coaching coaching.

[Pork Twain]

We are capable of winning 9-10 with our current recruiting succeess. The difference from #21 to #17 is not that much. And we would lose our mind at #17.

Coaching coaching coaching.

It is not that big of a difference but we are not talking about the difference between #21 and #17 and never have been.  We are generally in the mid to upper 20s and our primary competition in the SECW is top ten.  There is a pretty big gap there that should not be just brushed off.  Alabama, Auburn, LSU and aTm consistently finish far ahead of us.

Lets just take 2015 and 2016 as an example
2016
#1 Bama 3x5* 14x4* 7x3*
#3 LSU 2x5* 16x4* 8x3*
#5 Ole Miss 3x5* 12x4* 11x3*
#9 Auburn 1x5* 12x4* 11x3*

#18 aTm 0x5* 8x4* 13x3*
#23 Arkansas 1x5* 5x4* 16x3*

2015
#1 Bama 5x5* 15x4* 4x3*
#6 LSU 2x5* 11x4* 9x3*
#8 Auburn 1x5* 20x4* 8x3*
#11 aTm 2x5* 12x4* 12x3*

#17 Ole Miss 0x5* 7x4* 15x3*
#23 Arkansas 0x5* 7x4* 18x3*

[defcoach]

Makes it very difficult to overcome injuries and players leaving the program before they are seniors.  I have had a former Razorback coach tell me that Arkansas' starters at the time were as good as any team in the SEC, but our 2nd and 3rd teams were the difference.  I had never really thought of it that way, but it is absolutely true...

[Pork Twain]

Makes it very difficult to overcome injuries and players leaving the program before they are seniors.  I have had a former Razorback coach tell me that Arkansas' starters at the time were as good as any team in the SEC, but our 2nd and 3rd teams were the difference.  I had never really thought of it that way, but it is absolutely true...

It is 100% true and that is why we cannot miss and must develop depth through redshirting and walk-ons.  It sucks but that is the way it is.  To get the depth we need to hang with the big boys, it was going to take a few years.  CBB has two more for me and then I will be off of his bandwagon.  Next year should be the first with real depth, but the schedule is killer.  The next year we should have the depth and the schedule.

[GoHogzzGo]

It is not that big of a difference but we are not talking about the difference between #21 and #17 and never have been.  We are generally in the mid to upper 20s and our primary competition in the SECW is top ten.  There is a pretty big gap there that should not be just brushed off.  Alabama, Auburn, LSU and aTm consistently finish far ahead of us.

Lets just take 2015 and 2016 as an example
2016
#1 Bama 3x5* 14x4* 7x3*
#3 LSU 2x5* 16x4* 8x3*
#5 Ole Miss 3x5* 12x4* 11x3*
#9 Auburn 1x5* 12x4* 11x3*

#18 aTm 0x5* 8x4* 13x3*
#23 Arkansas 1x5* 5x4* 16x3*

2015
#1 Bama 5x5* 15x4* 4x3*
#6 LSU 2x5* 11x4* 9x3*
#8 Auburn 1x5* 20x4* 8x3*
#11 aTm 2x5* 12x4* 12x3*

#17 Ole Miss 0x5* 7x4* 15x3*
#23 Arkansas 0x5* 7x4* 18x3*

You are absolutely right on the gap, and it puts any coach at a disadvantage right off. Thus whomever the coach is must recruit higher, develop better, or put in place a better strategy.

Definitely a challenge no school of our caliber outside the SEC is facing. Except maybe Nebraska now.

I do think we already have sufficient talent to hit the win totals that would make everyone happy, and Bielema has lost there. Not advocating for his firing however as I have no good replacement.