A hell of a foundation

[UAalumUALRlaw]

I think we've got a hell of a foundation for the future with regard to basketball. This is essentially Pel's 1st year and this team is not only young, but they lack any experience whatsoever--even with the upperclassmen.

Next year we will have two excellent sophs in Fortson and Clark, and Clark is really improving on both sides of the ball. He's starting to have the ability to take it to the hoop and he's improving defensively.

Washington will be a senior and he'll be an established leader. Beyond those three we've got some good role players in Henry, Sanchez, Clarke, and Britt. Add a couple of solid recruits and things will be looking pretty darn good. I've been down on this team quite a bit, but I like what I saw today, as Porkatarian pointed out earlier: They played their butts off today without their leader (Fortson) even though they're 1-8 and they were facing a superior team.

The jury may still be out on Pel, but I still believe in him and I still think he shows promise. Woooo Pig Soooie and GHG!

[husker71]

I agree with you.  my blog is down under forrest city joes entry.  I try to analyze this but some people think we are crazy.  Nothing happens overnight.

[Wayne Watson]

AYSM??

No.

[forrest city joe]

I think we've got a hell of a foundation for the future with regard to basketball. This is essentially Pel's 1st year and this team is not only young, but they lack any experience whatsoever--even with the upperclassmen.

Next year we will have two excellent sophs in Fortson and Clark, and Clark is really improving on both sides of the ball. He's starting to have the ability to take it to the hoop and he's improving defensively.

Washington will be a senior and he'll be an established leader. Beyond those three we've got some good role players in Henry, Sanchez, Clarke, and Britt. Add a couple of solid recruits and things will be looking pretty darn good. I've been down on this team quite a bit, but I like what I saw today, as Porkatarian pointed out earlier: They played their butts off today without their leader (Fortson) even though they're 1-8 and they were facing a superior team.

The jury may still be out on Pel, but I still believe in him and I still think he shows promise. Woooo Pig Soooie and GHG!

I wish i could agree with you but i dont. you can have the foundation you want. but it takes bigtime players to win. and i dont see any bigtime players. none coming back and none in the incoming recruiting class. i see a few good players. but not the kind you can win a lot of games with. the incoming recruiting class is not very good in my opinion. and this past class after looking at it is not great either.this program is in real trouble folks. and we will agree to disagree on this.

[TNhawgfan]

The thing that worries me about all these young players we have is that the two with the most potential, raw talent, and ability (Fortson and Henry) both play out of control and have little basketball IQ. Hopefully they'll learn because it's hard to build your team around guys who don't understand the game.

[Razorod]

you're assuming fortson will be on the team next year. i'm not saying he won't, but i'm not going to assume he is. he's been suspended twice.

[WilsonHog]

you're assuming fortson will be on the team next year. i'm not saying he won't, but i'm not going to assume he is. he's been suspended twice.

I'm not going to assume at this point that any particular player will be back next year. We'll see.

[TNhawgfan]

Yes, I'm assuming he'll be on the team. Of course, it would be easier to say whether I think he'll be back or not if we knew exactly what he did.

[forrest city joe]

you're assuming fortson will be on the team next year. i'm not saying he won't, but i'm not going to assume he is. he's been suspended twice.

I agree. and even when he was playing we were losing.this thing is as bad as i have ever seen it. all i want now is hope in recruiting. and right now i see very little hope in that area.

[blacksuit]

Is this the best we can do?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2009&Sport=2&School=6

Heath brought in 2 4 stars most years didn't he?

[UAalumUALRlaw]

Where do you go to school?

UALR, why?

[Lieutenant Dan]

If Fortson and Henry can play as smart and disciplined as they are talented this team can be very good next year.  Either Moore or Clark have to step up and play the 4 spot.  Sanchez has to come off the bench.  I think it was Biggus who wrote we have 1/2 of a perfect high low game with Washington playing the high.  We just don't have anyone to play the low.  Probably the best point I've read on here concerning this team.  Henry has the size, athleticism, fluidity, and touch to be the most complete all around player we've had here since Joe (IMO).  I would be running our offense through him now in hopes of getting Clarke some better outside looks and Washington some better looks period.  Hopefully Fortson can get his head on straight.  We can't win this year or next without him. 

[UAalumUALRlaw]

I wish i could agree with you but i dont. you can have the foundation you want. but it takes bigtime players to win. and i dont see any bigtime players. none coming back and none in the incoming recruiting class. i see a few good players. but not the kind you can win a lot of games with. the incoming recruiting class is not very good in my opinion. and this past class after looking at it is not great either.this program is in real trouble folks. and we will agree to disagree on this.

You make good points, I guess the thing we disagree about is whether Fortson and Washington are big time players. I think they are, and I think that they'll both be much improved with a year of experience under their belts next year. Washington might as well be a freshmen based on his contributions in his 1st two seasons behind Townes/Thomas/Hill.

We still need another player or two, but I think we're on the way up out of the Heath era. That said, if we don't see significant improvement over the next two years Pel will have to be gone.

I also really like the fact that Pelphrey is willing to discipline his players even if it means suspending a star player for a big game.

[forrest city joe]

Is this the best we can do?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2009&Sport=2&School=6

Heath brought in 2 4 stars most years didn't he?

Very sad. Pel and his staff are not getting it done in recruiting. all the spin in the world wont change that.

[RazorbakEuphoricDysphoria]

Very sad. Pel and his staff are not getting it done in recruiting. all the spin in the world wont change that.

As hard as it is for me to say but I have to agree with you FCJ!!

[forrest city joe]

As hard as it is for me to say but I have to agree with you FCJ!!

I dont like posting this stuff. i love the hawgs and want to see them win. and i hate that this is happening to the basketball program. but we have to admit we have a problem before we can fix it. recruiting is the problem with this program.

[Beaverfever]

I'm sorry I just don't agree.  I'm about 1/234123414 as excited about Fortson as I used to be.  I think Wash will leave after this season.  I like RC but I think he is a role player, not the centerpiece we need.  Henry has upside, we'll see.  Next year will probably define the path of his college career.  Clark and Moore do not excite me at all though.  They could turn into players but for now I just don't know.  Clark has been here over a year and has done nothing.  Players do get better with experience but still, he should be contributing by now if he is going to.  Sanchez will probably end up a solid role player by the time he is a junior.

[forrest city joe]

I'm sorry I just don't agree.  I'm about 1/234123414 as excited about Fortson as I used to be.  I think Wash will leave after this season.  I like RC but I think he is a role player, not the centerpiece we need.  Henry has upside, we'll see.  Next year will probably define the path of his college career.  Clark and Moore do not excite me at all though.  They could turn into players but for now I just don't know.  Clark has been here over a year and has done nothing.  Players do get better with experience but still, he should be contributing by now if he is going to.  Sanchez will probably end up a solid role player by the time he is a junior.

It's recruiting. we dont have the players. it's as simple as that.

[RazorbakEuphoricDysphoria]

I dont like posting this stuff. i love the hawgs and want to see them win. and i hate that this is happening to the basketball program. but we have to admit we have a problem before we can fix it. recruiting is the problem with this program.

One thing about bball is one great recruit could change everything...the problem is dont look like we are going to land one!!!

[coach, my back hurts]

A few things to consider when looking ahead (future)

1. Of the other 11 SEC teams, ALL will have returning starters (not just us)
2. Of those 11 other teams, 7 or 8 are already better than we are (thats generous)
3. Of those 11 other teams, again 7 or 8 probably have better recruiting than we do
4. We wont be the only team getting better.

So, what do we need to do to jump from the 11th worst team in the SEC to the top 3 or 4?  A couple of McD AA recruits? (Like 3 or 4)  Hope that the souteastern part of the country falls off in the ocean? (Global warming?)  Pel and Rick Shaeffer BOTH get hair cuts?

[ICEman]

I agree. and even when he was playing we were losing.this thing is as bad as i have ever seen it. all i want now is hope in recruiting. and right now i see very little hope in that area.

It difficult to see any solutions in the 2009 recruiting class.

[Jeephog]

What has happened to in-state talent?  I have personally watched Gulley and Walton and they are talented but not the kind of differences makers we need.  We have plenty of 6 foot guards.  2011 is a long way off.  I think it's going to be hard to get big out of state guys until we are halfway dfecent again.  That's going to be tough with little or no in-state talent. 

[HAM ELLIOT]

Very sad. Pel and his staff are not getting it done in recruiting. all the spin in the world wont change that.

These guys have not even played their first game, yet some are already counting them out?  Ive not seen any of these guys play so I cant really base any opinion on how good they are.  I can only hope that all 4 contribute to the team next year, and have an outstanding first year.  But to say they are no good when they even havent put on a uniform yet? 

[HAM ELLIOT]

Is this the best we can do?

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2009&Sport=2&School=6

Heath brought in 2 4 stars most years didn't he?

Sorry, meant to quote this!

[forrest city joe]

Ha!  No you don't.  You love misery and whining.

Whatever floats your boat cowboy. but im not going to tell you what you want to hear. im going to always call it like i see it.SORRY!

[HogBreath]

wow Hogfather, you can call FCJ the busdriver, cause he just took you to school.  lol

[Dirty]

What the hell is wrong with you so called experts.  You can't play with freshmen and win.  Whoever said Heath recruited at least 2 four stars every year.  How in the hell did that turn out? Do you want him back?  Pel needs time.  I've seen more heart out of these players than I ever did under Heath and Townes and company.  I'm willing to give Pel time.  Take that all you college basketball coaches here on Hogville.

Dam!

[jonesark™]

Why do you think it is you are always SCREAMING that you were the first to jump ship on the last couple of coaches we've had?  Now you've done it again, no matter how many times you say you haven't.  It's funny how you are always talking about how early you jumped ship on particular coaches, like it is some kind of big accomplishment.  Let me tell you, it's really easy to claim you are the first to jump ship on a particular coach, when you start yelling, "Fire ______ !" as soon as the Red team loses in the Spring game of a coach's first year or the White team loses by a basket in the first year of coach's tenure as the basketball coach.  What's not easy is sticking by someone when times are rough.  You should try it sometime.  People think more highly of others who are there supportive through thick and thin.  I'd hate to see you on a battlefield.

slow burn....

[Newhopehog]

What the hell is wrong with you so called experts.  You can't play with freshmen and win.  Whoever said Heath recruited at least 2 four stars every year.  How in the hell did that turn out? Do you want him back?  Pel needs time.  I've seen more heart out of these players than I ever did under Heath and Townes and company.  I'm willing to give Pel time.  Take that all you college basketball coaches here on Hogville.

Dam!

+100

[H-O-double g]

"Being young" is not an excuse in college basketball. Other sports, but not college hoops. Most of the best players in college basketball are freshman and sophomores (than they leave for the NBA).

[CPL HOG]

"Being young" is not an excuse in college basketball. Other sports, but not college hoops. Most of the best players in college basketball are freshman and sophomores (than they leave for the NBA).

You have got to be joking. Young is young it does not matter what sport you are in.

[HogBreath]

"Being young" is not an excuse in college basketball. Other sports, but not college hoops. Most of the best players in college basketball are freshman and sophomores (than they leave for the NBA).

This being young excuse thing was going so well, then you had to go and ruin it.

[forrest city joe]

"Being young" is not an excuse in college basketball. Other sports, but not college hoops. Most of the best players in college basketball are freshman and sophomores (than they leave for the NBA).

Bingo! im tired of the young excuse.

[Jeephog]

Being is not an excuse when you're North Carolina, Duke, etc. and have a solid senior, two solid juniors, a sophmore, and some phenom freshman McDs All-American.

Every wants to cherry-pick these situations where Derrick Rose and four good or great upperclassmen are good to debunk the youth "excuse."  Show me a team that has won anything with two returning players that weren't starters and 6 or 7 freshmen.

Obviously we have to do better with recruiting.  But I just totally disagree that we should expect a lot from a team this young.

[elksnort]

The basketball program is a darn train wreck. How did it get this way.

I like Pelphrey, but I'd give him next year to at least go 0.500 in league play and the very least an NIT bid or I find another coach.


This news about Ostrum is disturbing. A person does not have to have played to be a good coach,but I'd say more times than not, playing experience helps.

And for the 19 millionth time. We got to recruit better. Does not Memphis produce any very good basketball players anymore. Hell, get Scott Edgar back.

[Hot_Town_Hog]

Being is not an excuse when you're North Carolina, Duke, etc. and have a solid senior, two solid juniors, a sophmore, and some phenom freshman McDs All-American.

Every wants to cherry-pick these situations where Derrick Rose and four good or great upperclassmen are good to debunk the youth "excuse."  Show me a team that has won anything with two returning players that weren't starters and 6 or 7 freshmen.

Obviously we have to do better with recruiting.  But I just totally disagree that we should expect a lot from a team this young.

Butler is from a smaller conference, but they are ranked 15th and get most of their scoring from 3 freshman and 1 sophomore. All 3 stars and one 4 star. Good chance they win at least one in the NCAAT.

Agree it is common for young teams to struggle, but young teams can win. If Pel could have gotten a decent 4 in this last class, we might not be having this conversation. I still have faith, but next year we should expect big improvements.

[Jeephog]

Butler is from a smaller conference, but they are ranked 15th and get most of their scoring from 3 freshman and 1 sophomore. All 3 stars and one 4 star. Good chance they win at least one in the NCAAT.

Agree it is common for young teams to struggle, but young teams can win. If Pel could have gotten a decent 4 in this last class, we might not be having this conversation. I still have faith, but next year we should expect big improvements.

Yeah, I do remember watching Butler play once this year and they had a lot of youth.  Frankly, I think you can pull that off better in a conference like the Horizon, I just think the athleticism of the SEC is a whole different animal.  Even Auburn looks like a bunch of bodybuilders out there.  I really think that's a huge problem.  Simple athelticism and strength.

[HogKongPhooey]

Very sad. Pel and his staff are not getting it done in recruiting. all the spin in the world wont change that.

This is the most glaring metric for this staff.  If they don't turn this around, they are going to be out after next year.  Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program and these guys are not getting it done.

[Jeephog]

Butler is from a smaller conference, but they are ranked 15th and get most of their scoring from 3 freshman and 1 sophomore. All 3 stars and one 4 star. Good chance they win at least one in the NCAAT.

Agree it is common for young teams to struggle, but young teams can win. If Pel could have gotten a decent 4 in this last class, we might not be having this conversation. I still have faith, but next year we should expect big improvements.

Took a quick look at Butler's stats and roster.  It's probably a fair comparison, but at first glance they're spreading those minutes out a lot too with some upperclassmen in the mix.  Our frosh guys are playing 35 min a game.  Can't say I'm well versed on Butler though. 

[HogKongPhooey]

It's recruiting. we dont have the players. it's as simple as that.

You are spot on.  Every player on this roster would be coming off the bench except for Washington if the recruting was what it should be.

[alwaysahogfan33]

I dont like posting this stuff. i love the hawgs and want to see them win. and i hate that this is happening to the basketball program. but we have to admit we have a problem before we can fix it. recruiting is the problem with this program.

We sighned the 12th best class in the nation last year.  I am not saying I agree with that ranking, but on paper much like the football team the foundation was layed.  What am I missing? 

[CPL HOG]

We sighned the 12th best class in the nation last year.  I am not saying I agree with that ranking, but on paper much like the football team the foundation was layed.  What am I missing? 

Dont think you are missing anything. Most people just want everything right now. They cant even give this team a year to get better.  They would rather replace the coach at the first sign of trouble.

[UAalumUALRlaw]

Bingo! im tired of the young excuse.

It's not an excuse, it is simply reality. The excuse won't exist next year because these guys will be sophomores and seniors. Like I've said before, Washington might as well be a freshman based on the limited experience/playing time he got in his first two years anyway. And Welsh, well I don't know about him. I wouldn't mind if he pulled a Famutini.

[UAalumUALRlaw]

The basketball program is a darn train wreck. How did it get this way.

I like Pelphrey, but I'd give him next year to at least go 0.500 in league play and the very least an NIT bid or I find another coach.


This news about Ostrum is disturbing. A person does not have to have played to be a good coach,but I'd say more times than not, playing experience helps.

And for the 19 millionth time. We got to recruit better. Does not Memphis produce any very good basketball players anymore. Hell, get Scott Edgar back.

I agree that it is a train wreck, but there are three main reasons for that imho. 1. Heath left a team filled with all seniors for Pel's first season, those seniors are all gone now. 2. Our one returning star (Beverly) unexpectedly left the team/got kicked off before the season even started, and 3. The kids have had to be disciplined this year (McDonald=gone, Fortson=multiple suspensions, Monk=ineligible).

The 3rd point, imho, speaks to the fact that Pel is laying a foundation. If the players know that there will be consequences for their actions they are much more likely to spend more time in the gym and classroom and less time drinking and driving or smoking pot.

[SpenceHogg]

"Being young" is not an excuse in college basketball. Other sports, but not college hoops. Most of the best players in college basketball are freshman and sophomores (than they leave for the NBA).

I agree here.  In NCAA BB, if you're a player, you make an impact as a freshman.  It's not like FB where you have to grow into your role, in basketball you make the cut or you don't.  Plenty of freshmen have led their teams to Final Fours, even the NCAA title.