Does VanHorn get free pass

[Shizzle]

I see continuous bashing of Nutt and Heath on this board but what about VanHorn? If the Arkansas football or basketball teams were highly ranked like the baseball hogs were, then fell flat on their faces like the baseball hogs do. Would be crucifixion time for Nutt and Heath. I think it is because baseball is definitely a third tier sport at Arkansas and just not as many people care.

[hogsNbeer]

I'm ok with Heath's coaching so far.....  As far as Van Horn is concerned...a couple of things come to mind when thinking about him and NUTT........ Van Horn knows what he is doing, NUTT does not, it's very obvious to me...... Also, you'll never hear Van Horn make excuses for future years being down years, like we heard from NUTT and his FANS.......  Van Horn can recruit, NUTT can't...........     NUTT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIRE HIM NOW SO WE CAN GET BACK TO WINNING..... :razorback: 

[HogBaptist]

and because baseball is a totally different sport.  Basketball and football's SEC play was down this year.  Yes I know we won the National Championship in basketball, but the conference play was down.  Football was also down.  SEC baseball is by far the best league in the country.  Also, the Hogs haven't "fallen flat on there face."  Yes we could be doing better but its early. Baseball is a sport you have to grow in to during a season.  Look at the Yankee's.  They were terrible last year, but then grew into a very very good team.  Learn the sport of Baseball then tell me when Van Horn should be on the chopping block or not.

[Shizzle]

I didn't say chopping block the guy, just raising the question that he might be overrated as a coach. I'm just getting into college baseball so I claim to be no expert, just not overly impressed with DVH. I think the Yankees had more to work with than does Arkansas hard to compare the two.

[Hog1751]

He's not overratted as a coach IMO. He's already taken us to the World Series, Heath hasn't sniffed the Final Four. Nutt hasnt even sniffed an SEC Title, and you cant say anything about 2002 because we didnt sniff that. Van Horn is in his 4th season. Im willing to give Heath 6. Nutt has been here 8 years and the results have steadily fallen. The fact that the man asked for and got a 2 year pass is alarming to say the least. Can you imagine asking for a 2 year pass at your job. I think not.

[idochog]

I didn't say chopping block the guy, just raising the question that he might be overrated as a coach. I'm just getting into college baseball so I claim to be no expert, just not overly impressed with DVH. I think the Yankees had more to work with than does Arkansas hard to compare the two.

OVERRATED?  You need to check your history on Van Horn.  He has turned every program he's been to into a winner:

Texarkana College

Nebraska was a perenially last place team in B12 until he came

Arkansas will be soon but might take a bit longer b/c SEC is HEAD and SHOULDERS above the other conferences.

To top it off, he has lots tougher issues to deal w/ related to scholarships and MLB draft.

[ledhead830]

he lost two pitchers to MLB draft, three injuries to the middle infield and plays in, along with the ACC, the most dominant conference in baseball. he has made it to three College World Series, much like a BCS bowl for football, so I would say he's a little more qualified than the rest.

[hogfan064]

DO you understand Baseball?  Let me explain some things

1-Dave Van Horn is one of only a couple  coaches in NCAA baseball that has been to the CWS 3 since 2001.  Nutt and Heath have accomplished nothing like this

2-Dave Van Horn has won a SEC Championship.  Nutt and Heath haven't

3-Dave Van Horn has the Hogs in the top 15 right now, top 10 in RPI.  What are you complaining about?

4-The SEC last week had 10 ranked teams in baseball.  It is the toughest conference in any sport there is. 

5-College Baseball teams have 11.6 scholarships available.  Arkansas currently has 3 key players injured. 


Why would anyone in their right mind complain about these results?  This is a comparison others have tried and failed to make in the past

[hogfan064]

And another thing to keep in mind about how tough the SEC is

In football 4-6 ranked teams
A winning pct of .875 or .1000 wins the SEC
.500 record gets you a Indy Bowl birth

In basketball 2-4 ranked teams
A winning pct of about .875 will usually win SEC
A .500 record Gets you a 11 seed or a NIT bid

In baseball 8-10 ranked teams
A winning pct of about .600-.700 usually will win the SEC
A .500 record gets you a regional host and a #1 seed in your region

[mikeirwin]

This Arkansas team is of average talent. Combine that with the injuries they've had and what you see is a team that is winning a lot games like today and last Sunday on pure guts.
If the Diamond Hogs had any other coach right now they'd be toast.

[hogfan064]

This Arkansas team is of average talent. Combine that with the injuries they've had and what you see is a team that is winning a lot games like today and last Sunday on pure guts.
If the Diamond Hogs had any other coach right now they'd be toast.

And despite all this we're ranked 12th in the nation and our RPI has been top 5-15 all season.  Yet some people still compare Heath and Nutt with DVH.  If either of those 2 had us in the top 15 noone would complain.

[Jerry Swinefeld]

This is a question that shouldn't even be asked.
DVH has done nothing to "earn" a free pass.
He earns his keep.  He wins.

[Kodiak]

This Arkansas team is of average talent. Combine that with the injuries they've had and what you see is a team that is winning a lot games like today and last Sunday on pure guts.
If the Diamond Hogs had any other coach right now they'd be toast.

Well put, mike, well put.

[Skip Foreplay]

Do you even follow Hog baseball? We have lost 3 middle infielders (two for the season)lost our Centerfielder for a few weeks.Van Horn has and is doing a great job. Why don't you go bitch about the Lady Backs Volleyball coach.

[Skip Foreplay]

  Umm ,well said... Poke out

[WilsonHog]

There are very few, if any, conferences in any sport as tough as the SEC is in baseball. It's tougher to make the SEC Tournament than it is the NCAA Tournament.

Case in point. Last week Mississippi State had the top-ranked team in the country. Alabama beat them two out of three last weekend, and Georgia beat them this afternoon - despite the Bulldogs being 2-8 in conference play going into today.   

[Shizzle]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

[Flatline]

He has done more for baseball in the last couple of years than we had for the last twenty years.  A mid-week game had 4000 people at it.  There is over 7000 on weekends.  The new stadium is going to expanded again.  You give him a few more years and we will be talked about as a powerhouse, not rebuilding just reloading.  If you build it they will come.

[PintailKiller]

One other thing to note - based on play going into this weekend, MSu was 3rd in the country, but would've only been a 5 seed if the SEC tourny started then.  All 12 SEC teams are in the Top 40 with 6 in the top 25.  How many times has football or basketball played 12 weekends agaisnt top 40 competition?  The SEC may well put 10 of 12 in the NCAA tourny this year with up to 6 regional hosts.

[PintailKiller]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

Nutt and Heath would not be ranked top 15 with a sub 500 SEC record. 

[rightdp]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

Give it up Shizzle.  I know you stated you were new to college baseball but you have now made that very obvious.  You apparently haven't noted what anyone has said.  Injuries to 3 starters will kill a baseball team.  Last year, we lost 2 of our best players, not to mention 2 of the best players in the SEC in Casey Rowlett and Scott Bridges.  They were both batting almost .400 at mid-season and were both on their way to steal around 50 bases.  We lost them both and it still took Texas (the college world series champions) to knock us out.  As for this year, yeah we've had 3 starters injured but you might as well add another one to that list as Charlie Boyce has become almost worthless.  Typically, a coach can count on a senior who has been great for the past 3-years.  Not Charlie....but that's a whole other thread.  The only doubts I might have about DVH is his ability to recruit.  Like Mike mentioned earlier, we are loaded with very average talent.  Everyone new last year that we needed a lot more pitching.  This year Chris Rhoads is the only new pitcher that really has any innings.

[Pragmatic PiG]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

but hdn and heath are?

all you have done is state an unsubstantiated opinion, thats it

You clearly show no grasp of college baseball, especially with regards to the difficulty of the league the hogs participate in

I wonder, are you much of a baseball fan at all?

I ask cause you are not bringing any details to your arguement, i.e. you are clueless

Explain to me that my assumption is incorrect

[wrightobe]

He has done more for baseball in the last couple of years than we had for the last twenty years.  A mid-week game had 4000 people at it.  There is over 7000 on weekends.  The new stadium is going to expanded again.  You give him a few more years and we will be talked about as a powerhouse, not rebuilding just reloading.  If you build it they will come.

He wanted to come to Arkansas, his alma mater, stated it was the only reason he left Nebraska, and that "old senile Athletic Director" wanted him as his first choice to replace Norm Dybrian, when Dybrian retired as baseball head coach.

Van Horn is a "winner''.

[TulsaHogFan]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

LMAO i would love to be ranked in the Top 15 in the nation and have a top 5 or top 10 RPI.

I would thank the coach personally.

HDN and Heath are not getting the same results.

[mikeirwin]

Baseball is a lot different from other sports. Baseball players are usually on partial scholarships and a lot of them go to a school for the acadmics. According to Chuck today on the radio Vanderbilt has one kid who comes from poor family in NYC. His dad drives a cab. He turned down a minor league contract of a million dollars out of high school to get an education at Vanderbilt. How often would something like that happen in basketball ?

[hogman64]

I see continuous bashing of Nutt and Heath on this board but what about VanHorn? If the Arkansas football or basketball teams were highly ranked like the baseball hogs were, then fell flat on their faces like the baseball hogs do. Would be crucifixion time for Nutt and Heath. I think it is because baseball is definitely a third tier sport at Arkansas and just not as many people care.

this post shows you know absolutely nothing about college baseball and  you dont need to be starting baseball  threads.....Do you realize if a team just goes .500 or a little better in  Sec baseball , that team is a threat to go to Omaha.......geeezzzz man  they havent even come close to falling on their faces........Van Horn and McDonald are the two best coaches on campus and  whoever is third isnt even close............

[heathshogs]

Do you even follow Hog baseball? We have lost 3 middle infielders (two for the season)lost our Centerfielder for a few weeks.Van Horn has and is doing a great job. Why don't you go bitch about the Lady Backs Volleyball coach.

Why would you he wins the SEC west almost every year

Seriously, I don't want to be as harsh as some of the above posts, but shizzle, I think you should study college baseball more. There are many differences between it and the 2 bigger college sports as well as many differences in style of play compared to MLB.

DVH's record speaks for itself. His don't take any crap attitude also appeals to those that tend to call for Nutt and Heath's head. I question many moves he makes, such is the nature of baseball. But despite the fact that we are clearly out manned against every SEC foe at this point, DVH gives us a chance to keep afloat in the SEC. As someone pointed out above there's not much chance a school can be sub .500 in conference and be ranked. In baseball, it's possible. We're 1.5 games behind MSU (6-4) for 2nd in the west, but MSU was ranked #3 in the country this week.   

[hogfan064]

What I ASKED was is DVH scrutinized less than Nutt and Heath? I will guarantee if the football or basketball teams were ranked top 15 in the nation, and were sub .500 in the SEC Nutt and Heath would be getting hammered. I'm not saying DVH is not a good coach just don't think he is great as most people act like he is.

Are you reading anything that people are writing?  Let's look what a .500 record will get you in baseball, basketball, football

baseball-top 10-15 team, a regional host.  Hogs are 5-6 in SEC and ranked 12th

basketball-no mention of top 25, a possible 10-12 seed in NCAA tourney if you win some SEC tourney games.  Hogs went 10-6 in SEC and weren't in top 25

Football-No top 25 mention unless you've won some big OOC games.  Still you'll end up in the Indy Bowl.  South Carolina was 5-3 in SEC and not in top 25


Do you see the difference? 

also keep in mind probably 10 of the top 20 greatest coaches in the nation are SEC coaches in baseball.  OUt of 300+ schools that's not to bad.

[Swino]

I didn't read anything but the topic of this thread and had to reply that we are ranked in the top 15 as of today.  What a silly and stupid topic to start.

[Flatline]

Did you hear the game today.  Why would he need a free pass.  He makes a huge decision to change up the pitching staff and wins two out of three against the #16 team in the country.  They have been stomping the crap out of everybody and we go to their house and leave them with two loses.  This was a stupid question and now you have the answer.

[pork and mindy]

While I think there has been some merit to some of the excuses put forth by Nutt, Heath, etc., no one can say that DVH hasn't had it as bad or worse. And yet he never complains about it, ever. He lost both of his star pitching recruits to the draft, had Clint Brannon come out early, and has been crippled with injuries. Not only does he not make excuses, he still manages to compete and win. i'm confident the next sport we win a National Championship in is baseball. We're a great club now, and I think we're only a healthy roster and a little consistency away from another trip to the CWS this year. DVH is the man.

Is he scrutinized more than Nutt or Heath? No, but that's because he delivers more than Nutt or Heath.

[pork and mindy]

Not to mention that going .500 in SEC baseball is WAY different than in basketball or even football. The worst team in our conference this year is still one of the top 40 or 50 programs. Even in SEC football we can count on a couple of wins against the Mississippi teams. There are no gimmees in SEC baseball. Every single conference game is tough. Look at Kentucky this year, they are a perrennial doormat and were picked by some to come in last in the SEC. Instead, they're blowing past almost everybody.

[Hums]

Guy must have wanted to start a BUZZ b/c he has! As many people noted there is not comparrison. We have been to 1 College WS and within 1 game of returning in the past three years, guess DVH should be questioned on a team that has avg talent the last couple of years, but always is competitive and finds a way to win.

[TuckFexas]

Thanks for starting this thread shizzle. I have gotten numerous laughs out of it.

[TOM "tbw1"]

I dont know of anyone trying to give DVH a free pass.  Anyone with any baseball knowledge (even as limited as mine) would know that he has won with coaching and inspiration fighting injuries and the toughest schedule in baseball.

[CharlieHog]

Since DVH has got here all we have done is improve the facilities, go to the post-season every year, and get the 2nd largest attendance in the country.

Gosh! Can't believe that loser hasn't been fired already. The administration on the Hill will settle for ANYTHING!

[hogfan064]

Since DVH has got here all we have done is improve the facilities, go to the post-season every year, and get the 2nd largest attendance in the country.

Gosh! Can't believe that loser hasn't been fired already. The administration on the Hill will settle for ANYTHING!

Don't forget he's did something that noone in football or basketball has done since Nolan's prime.  Win a SEC Championship!!

[lyon98]

A couple of weeks ago, mississippi state was #1.  Their coach said "don't bother with polls, when you are on top or bottom, the season is a long way from being over." He was right.

However, if you got started with 70-7, I'd have problems with whoever was coach. Don't know what the polls would say, but it sounds like the Hogs were playing the Zebras or some other high school, except it was southern cal vs nutt's team.