Tavaris Jackson

[BigHog396]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

No.  The real issue was that he never moved the team when he had a chance. 

His 2003 Game-by game stats:  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/players/21483/
Sep. 07 Boise St. W 41 - 14 QB 0 4 0.0 0 0 0 1 6 0 6.0 0 0
Sep. 14 South Florida W 42 - 3 QB 8 11 72.7 78 1 1 4 -12 0 -3.0 0 0
Sep. 28 Alabama L 12 - 30 QB 1 11 9.1 16 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0
Oct. 05 Tennessee L 38 - 41 QB 0 1 0.0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0.0 0 0
Oct. 12 Auburn W 38 - 17 QB 0 2 0.0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.0 0 0
Oct. 19 Kentucky L 17 - 29 QB 2 4 50.0 12 0 0 4 4 0 1.0 0 0
Nov. 16 Louisiana Lafayette W 24 - 17 QB 2 2 100.0 23 0 0 3 -10 0 -3.3 0 0
Dec. 07 Georgia L 3 - 30 QB 1 4 25.0 14 0 0 1 -4 0 -4.0 0 0
TOTALS 14 39 35.9 143 1 2 14 -16 0 -1.1 0 0

He rarely had more than 4 attempts per game.

Wow, did you realize that Vince Young's backup had all of 11 pass attempts this year.  Dang, if he would have only been given more opportunities, he may have been able to show that he was a better QB than Vince.   (SARCASM)

Arguing that TJ should have been given more opportunities is like arguing Matt Nordgren should have had more opportunities.  When you have a player that has athletic ability that is unsurpassed by ANY other player in the entire NATION (Matt, not Vince because he has proven with his 40 times that he doesn't fit that description), you play him where he has the most touches (QB for those of you that simply don't get it).

Matt had NO receivers to throw the ball to until Monk showed up.  If you could have given Matt the receiving corp that Texas has, I really think he would have been the #1 overall pick.  Go back and watch the games, and if you watch closely you will notice that the receivers dropped balls that were in their hands probably 20% of the time.  With good receivers, Matt's passing numbers would have been mind-boggling.  He still would have likely been a WR in the pro's, but only because of his limited arm strength due to major shoulder problems.

[lyon98]

Sal is right, in regards to TJ not be given a fair shake as to being in games. As to MJ, the whole state knew he was the best player Arkansas had as far as QB and nutt told him he would let him have a shot at it. OU wanted him as a WR. Every spring nutt said, the QB job was wide open. What a bunch of horse hockey, wide open or not it was MJ's job, rightfully. Nutt needs to be selling used cars and Brooklyn bridges.

Nutt could have run the single wing, double wing, split T, shot gun, I or what ever and MJ would have lined up to get the ball.

[BigHog396]

Sal is right, in regards to TJ not be given a fair shake as to being in games. As to MJ, the whole state knew he was the best player Arkansas had as far as QB and nutt told him he would let him have a shot at it. OU wanted him as a WR. Every spring nutt said, the QB job was wide open. What a bunch of horse hockey, wide open or not it was MJ's job, rightfully. Nutt needs to be selling used cars and Brooklyn bridges.

Nutt could have run the single wing, double wing, split T, shot gun, I or what ever and MJ would have lined up to get the ball.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but how is letting the best player play, not giving a backup a fair shot?  Reference my earlier post, EVERYONE knew Matt was far superior to TJ, and that is why Matt played.  It is the exact same thing as saying Matt Nordgren should have been given more of a shot at Texas.  Hey, maybe Matt Cassel wasn't given a fair shot at New England, he wasn't put in for the third series of any of New England's games.

[justmakeit2thebcs]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I must not be in my right mind...

.so we could have had a 1st round WR and a 3rd round QB in the same offense, but we chose to not play TJ and insert the WR at QB.

[justmakeit2thebcs]

i cant believe you two spent all afternoon arguing if mj was better than tj.  and i cant believe i spent a good part of the afternoon reading it.  mj was, is, and always will be a better player than tarvaris.

Player or QB?..NFL seem to think TJ is the better QB

[razorbackfan502000]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I must not be in my right mind...

.so we could have had a 1st round WR and a 3rd round QB in the same offense, but we chose to not play TJ and insert the WR at QB.

That's some ridicolous stuff right there, are you saying that MJ isn't as good a qb as atleast the vast majority of qb's that go in the 3rd round? MOST 3rd qb's are outta the league within 2 seasons. NOONE made MJ a first round WR b/c he couldn't cut it as a 3rd string qb. They drafted him as a first round wr, b/c he has so much god given talent they felt compelled to get him on the field as mush as possible, and he is much more suited to WR then QB.

[EastexHawg]

What difference does it make that Jones wasn't drafted as an NFL quarterback?  What does the NFL have to do with who was the better QB in COLLEGE?  I didn't realize the Arkansas Razorbacks are supposed to be in the business of acting as a "minor league" to develop NFL players.

But, if that is where we want to take the argument...Quinn Grovey wasn't drafted to play QB in the NFL.  Neither was Bill Montgomery.  Neither was Eric Crouch...or Jason White...or Josh Heupel.  Does that mean they weren't effective COLLEGE quarterbacks?  Does that mean they should have been benched in order to find an "NFL QB"?

TJack got his chances, and he never produced.  On the other hand, Matt Jones started making big plays as soon as Nutt inserted him at QB in 2001.  That's how a player earns more playing time...any player.  He produces when given the opportunity.  Just how dumb would it have been to keep playing TJack hoping he would eventually turn into a decent QB when Jones was available and was ALREADY making big plays and winning games?

And in case anyone has forgotten, Jones not only holds the Arkansas single game, season, and career (by a mile) total offense records...and ranks in the top ten in SEC history in both total offense and career TD responsibility...but he is also the HIGHEST RATED PASSER, STATISTICALLY, IN ARKANSAS HISTORY.

This argument is ridiculous. 

Just a little more on which to cogitate, I guess...

[razorbackfan502000]

What difference does it make that Jones wasn't drafted as an NFL quarterback?  What does the NFL have to do with who was the better QB in COLLEGE?  I didn't realize the Arkansas Razorbacks are supposed to be in the business of acting as a "minor league" to develop NFL players.

But, if that is where we want to take the argument...Quinn Grovey wasn't drafted to play QB in the NFL.  Neither was Bill Montgomery.  Neither was Eric Crouch...or Jason White...or Josh Heupel.  Does that mean they weren't effective COLLEGE quarterbacks?  Does that mean they should have been benched in order to find an "NFL QB"?

TJack got his chances, and he never produced.  On the other hand, Matt Jones started making big plays as soon as Nutt inserted him at QB in 2001.  That's how a player earns more playing time...any player.  He produces when given the opportunity.  Just how dumb would it have been to keep playing TJack hoping he would eventually turn into a decent QB when Jones was available and was ALREADY making big plays and winning games?

And in case anyone has forgotten, Jones not only holds the Arkansas single game, season, and career (by a mile) total offense records...and ranks in the top ten in SEC history in both total offense and career TD responsibility...but he is also the HIGHEST RATED PASSER, STATISTICALLY, IN ARKANSAS HISTORY.

This argument is ridiculous. 

Just a little more on which to cogitate, I guess...

It's just another attempt by nutt haters to blame something on him, no matter how ridicolous. I mean do they not realize that for 4 yrs Nutt was looking for ANYONE  that could be an effective qb so that he could move MJ to wide receiver, the position that he was initially recruited as? Yes i know he was promised a shot at qb, but he was told that his primary position would be wr, even though it didnt ever work out that way.

[jkcrunch]

nutt did want very much to play jones at WR, but daddy just wouldn't have it. that's one reason he really wanted t-jax to take over at QB. that's one scenario that can't be blamed on nutt, i don't think.


[/quote]

EVERYTHING THAT GOES WRONG IS NUTTS FAULT, EVERYTHING THAT GOES RIGHT IS INSPITE OF NUTT, WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THAT???


sarcasm
[/quote]
I am positive in another life that HDN was Pontius Pilot

More sarcasm

[lyon98]

Did you hear nutt say, "MJ, your primany position will be at WR?" Nor did anyone else.

[razorbackfan502000]

Did you hear nutt say, "MJ, your primany position will be at WR?" Nor did anyone else.

When he was recruited that was what he was told the plan was, that they wanted him as WR but would give him a shot at QB, MJ said as much MANY times in interviews.

[lyon98]

Did you hear nutt say, "MJ, your primany position will be at WR?" Nor did anyone else.

When he was recruited that was what he was told the plan was, that they wanted him as WR but would give him a shot at QB, MJ said as much MANY times in interviews.

link?

[firecampbell]

just another reason of why houston couldn't coach a flag football team

[Feralhog]

Thats so much bull, If you want to say that HDN isn't a good coach, I will debate that with you, as both sides have good arguments, but you are saying that HDN just plays the players he wants to play not the players that he thinks give him the best oppurtunity to win games. I can respect a differing opinion, but you are just flat out making Shiite up about the guy, if there were any indication that he played who he wanted to play instead of playing players that can win games for him, i can guarantee you that it would have came to FB's attention and he wouldhave either not hired him or would have done something about. I have no respect for people that just make Shiite up about someone for no other reason than they just dont like the guy, i am done discussing this with you and will no longer repsond to your asinine posts. Grow up and maybe we can discuss some other items in the future.

I don't know if he's making Shiite up or not, so I'll simply ask this.  How many touches did Felix Jones and Darren McFadden get against Vanderbilt?  One of the dumbest moves I've ever seen from a head coach.  Ranks right up there with the decision of having your fullback return punts.

I will NEVER believe that a D1 coach would not play the players they thoght gave them the best chance to win any given game. Ofcourse in hindsight we see that Mac was the man last season, but obviously he didnt look like it to the coaching staff going into the vandy game. BTW we had a sr back that up until last season looked like he was just waiting for his chance to carry the team. He fizzled last season, but still, he MUST have looked better in practice then Mac b4 that game or else dmac would have gotten the start.

Maybe not D-Mac so much as Felix Jones because D-Mac didn't get many touches against Mo St, but I'm sorry.  You not recognizing Felix Jones' ability in that game and thinking that not using him against Vanderbilt is hindsight, doesn't speak much about your ability to evaluate talent.  Anyone with a lick of sense recognized two things against Vanderbilt, WHILE THE GAME WAS GOING ON.  1) That Felix Jones rode the pine 2) We needed Felix in the game. 

HELLO that was against MO State, not an SEC team. Besides Howard was a solid rb, and at that point he deserved to be the starter, and he deserved the carries. Also felix has a bit of fumblitits, thats why he doesnt return punts, MAYBE that had something to do with his limited carries in his SECOND college game?? Lastly, the play at RB did NOT cost us that game. I see noway in hell that you can claim that playing felix or dmac more would have won us that game. Howard had a nice game. RJ cost us that game, quite frankly.

It's like my wife when she sends me to the store.  When I get home she asks, why did I pick these tomatoes, and wants to know why someone else didn't pick these tomatoes.  To which I reply, how can someone else pick these tomatoes if I picked these tomatoes?  Conversing with you is like talking to a friken fence post.  I understand that I was referencing Mo St.  I stated it in my post.   Unfortunately, at the time, it was the only tomatoes from which to choose!!! 

Are you trying to imply Jones' performance against Mo St didn't earn some playing time against Vanderbilt?  Shiite fire, the very next game against the defending national champs, both Jones and Dmac got plenty of carries, and looked solid as hell! 

Now had your defense of Nutt been something like, HDN didn't play Dmac and Felix against Vandy  because he wanted to spring them on USC, at least that would make some friken sense.  But to up and say  hind sight is 20 20 and the coaches had no way of knowing about Felix and Dmac?  The only thing more ignorant than your defense of Nutt, is me continuing to reply to your posts.   Your credibility is sinking faster than a Russian Sub.   

[razorbackfan502000]

Thats so much bull, If you want to say that HDN isn't a good coach, I will debate that with you, as both sides have good arguments, but you are saying that HDN just plays the players he wants to play not the players that he thinks give him the best oppurtunity to win games. I can respect a differing opinion, but you are just flat out making Shiite up about the guy, if there were any indication that he played who he wanted to play instead of playing players that can win games for him, i can guarantee you that it would have came to FB's attention and he wouldhave either not hired him or would have done something about. I have no respect for people that just make Shiite up about someone for no other reason than they just dont like the guy, i am done discussing this with you and will no longer repsond to your asinine posts. Grow up and maybe we can discuss some other items in the future.

I don't know if he's making Shiite up or not, so I'll simply ask this.  How many touches did Felix Jones and Darren McFadden get against Vanderbilt?  One of the dumbest moves I've ever seen from a head coach.  Ranks right up there with the decision of having your fullback return punts.

I will NEVER believe that a D1 coach would not play the players they thoght gave them the best chance to win any given game. Ofcourse in hindsight we see that Mac was the man last season, but obviously he didnt look like it to the coaching staff going into the vandy game. BTW we had a sr back that up until last season looked like he was just waiting for his chance to carry the team. He fizzled last season, but still, he MUST have looked better in practice then Mac b4 that game or else dmac would have gotten the start.

Maybe not D-Mac so much as Felix Jones because D-Mac didn't get many touches against Mo St, but I'm sorry.  You not recognizing Felix Jones' ability in that game and thinking that not using him against Vanderbilt is hindsight, doesn't speak much about your ability to evaluate talent.  Anyone with a lick of sense recognized two things against Vanderbilt, WHILE THE GAME WAS GOING ON.  1) That Felix Jones rode the pine 2) We needed Felix in the game. 

HELLO that was against MO State, not an SEC team. Besides Howard was a solid rb, and at that point he deserved to be the starter, and he deserved the carries. Also felix has a bit of fumblitits, thats why he doesnt return punts, MAYBE that had something to do with his limited carries in his SECOND college game?? Lastly, the play at RB did NOT cost us that game. I see noway in hell that you can claim that playing felix or dmac more would have won us that game. Howard had a nice game. RJ cost us that game, quite frankly.

It’s like my wife when she sends me to the store.  When I get home she asks, why did I pick these tomatoes, and wants to know why someone else didn’t pick these tomatoes.  To which I reply, how can someone else pick these tomatoes if I picked these tomatoes?  Conversing with you is like talking to a friken fence post.  I understand that I was referencing Mo St.  I stated it in my post.   Unfortunately, at the time, it was the only tomatoes from which to choose!!! 

Are you trying to imply Jones’ performance against Mo St didn’t earn some playing time against Vanderbilt?  Shiite fire, the very next game against the defending national champs, both Jones and Dmac got plenty of carries, and looked solid as hell! 

Now had your defense of Nutt been something like, HDN didn’t play Dmac and Felix against Vandy  because he wanted to spring them on USC, at least that would make some friken sense.  But to up and say  hind sight is 20 20 and the coaches had no way of knowing about Felix and Dmac?  The only thing more ignorant than your defense of Nutt, is me continuing to reply to your posts.   Your credibility is sinking faster than a Russian Sub.   

You're still ignoring the obvious, HDN, well no coach for that matter, is going to play anything but the players they felt gave them the BEST chance to win ball games. Plus you didn't explain to me how exactly getting either one of those guys more touches would have won that game. Unless ofcourse they were direct snaps to the back which would have cut down on RJ's touches, b/c RJ cost us that game, PERIOD. Not Howard, he had a solid game, he did just as well as DMac or FJ would have considering the fact that Vandy figured out about 2 minutes into the game that we had nothing at qb, and therefore they could just tee off on the running game. your whole point about felix and dmac makes sense in the abstract, but in reality, what your saying isn't true, limited touches by our freshman rb's, who both later showed that they are superstar caliber players, did NOT cost us that game. Not in any way,shape or form. Unless one of them could complete some passes??

[Feralhog]

Failing to recognize the difference between a possession type back vs a break away back with speed, who's a threat to score from any place on the field, doesn't bode well for your sinking creadability!  Of course we have no way of knowing if Jones and Mcfadden would have impacted the Vanderbilt game, because they only had 1 CARRY BETWEEN THEM!!!!!  What we do know is, Nutt's decision to give Howard ALL the touches resulted in a home loss to the door mat of the SEC.  Your the one who's ignoring the obvious.  Of course Nutt played the kids he thought gave him the best chance to win.  The point is, it's one of many piss poor decisions by HDN.  

[Feralhog]

I'm not saying our running game cost us the game.  What I am saying is, Nutt's decision to sit two very explosive backs in a close game, was a piss poor decision that reduced our chances of winning and, as I said in my original post, ranks up there as one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen by a head coach.  The explanation given was a real beauty as well.   Nutt said he didn't like how easy Jones gave the ball up to one of the refs after the whistle blew???  It's like we have Moe and Larry working our sidelines!   

[razorbackfan502000]

I'm not saying our running game cost us the game.  What I am saying is, Nutt's decision to sit two very explosive backs in a close game, was a piss poor decision that reduced our chances of winning and, as I said in my original post, ranks up there as one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen by a head coach.  The only explanation given was a real beauty too.   Nutt said he didn't like how easy Jones gave the ball up to one of the refs after the whistle blew.  It's like we have Moe and Larry working our sidelines!  

Maybe there was another reason that was kept inhouse, we just don't know. I'll tell you what, let's just agree to disagree, obviously we're both hardheaded and not going to change our minds b/c of anything the other says, no matter how right I am.

[12under]

i cant believe you two spent all afternoon arguing if mj was better than tj.  and i cant believe i spent a good part of the afternoon reading it.  mj was, is, and always will be a better player than tarvaris.

Player or QB?..NFL seem to think TJ is the better QB

whatever you want.  i believe time will tell that tj will not be an NFL qb.  i still cant believe that people could possibly argue that tj was a better option at qb than matt jones!  thats incredible.

[12under]

  mj was, is, and always will be a better player than tarvaris.

Yet, Jones was drafted as a WIDE RECEIVER, and Jackson will be drafted as a QUARTERBACK.

Cogitate on that for a second before returning to your regularly scheduled stupid argument.

eric crouch, i believe, was drafted as a reciever, was tj better than him?  btw, if there has ever been a stupid argument on this board, it is your assertion that tarvaris jackson was a better qb for us than matt jones

[oldfart]

He was like a deer in the headlights anytime he was in a game.. no matter what the situation.  His accuracy reminded me of a baseball pitcher for the old Knoxville Smokies when I was in school. His name was Steve Dalkowski, and he could throw over 100 mph all day long but the storyline was that he could stand on a bridge and fail to hit the Tennessee River.

[razorbackfan502000]

He was like a deer in the headlights anytime he was in a game.. no matter what the situation.  His accuracy reminded me of a baseball pitcher for the old Knoxville Smokies when I was in school. His name was Steve Dalkowski, and he could throw over 100 mph all day long but the storyline was that he could stand on a bridge and fail to hit the Tennessee River.

T jac went in the 3rd round, by god what's next? does RJ become a lottery pick?

[ki285]

i'd say matt jones playing qb worked out pretty well for us.  i agree 100% with whoever said if jones had anyone to throw to he would have been the number 1 pick of the draft.  everyone would have been talking about how great of a quaterback he is instead of how great of an athlete he is.  i think he could be the quaterback for jacksonville right now if he was given the chance

[Ark Blitz]

He was like a deer in the headlights anytime he was in a game.. no matter what the situation.  His accuracy reminded me of a baseball pitcher for the old Knoxville Smokies when I was in school. His name was Steve Dalkowski, and he could throw over 100 mph all day long but the storyline was that he could stand on a bridge and fail to hit the Tennessee River.

He must not be that bad if Kiper is talking about him being a good draft pick.  That deer in the head light look is going to get him paid and drafted.

[lyon98]

He was like a deer in the headlights anytime he was in a game.. no matter what the situation.  His accuracy reminded me of a baseball pitcher for the old Knoxville Smokies when I was in school. His name was Steve Dalkowski, and he could throw over 100 mph all day long but the storyline was that he could stand on a bridge and fail to hit the Tennessee River.

He must not be that bad if Kiper is talking about him being a good draft pick.  That deer in the head light look is going to get him paid and drafted.

If the deer in the head light gets him drafted in the 3rd round, Mort will be a lottery pick if they find the old southern cal film.

[razorbackfan502000]

i'd say matt jones playing qb worked out pretty well for us.  i agree 100% with whoever said if jones had anyone to throw to he would have been the number 1 pick of the draft.  everyone would have been talking about how great of a quaterback he is instead of how great of an athlete he is.  i think he could be the quaterback for jacksonville right now if he was given the chance

Nope, sorry, i LOVED MJ, he was awesome, but he had NO chance of ever being an nfl qb, two things conspired against him, well three actually. Number one, his shoulder, even if he had thrown for 10K yards in college, the shoulder problems would have showed up. Number 2, people have a hard time believing a white guy from arkansas could be so freakishly athletic, I know that sounds racist, and maybe it is, but that's a fact. Don't believe that, compare him to VY, the same athlete, different colors, you don't see anyone acting like it's a freakin miracle every time VY outruns a db for a touchdown, The perception is that a black guy WOULD have that athletic ability. Reason three- he's too laid back to be a nfl qb, he's just not that intense, this is by god my team, kinda guy, and you must have that to be an nfl qb.

[oldfart]

i dont think aikman stunk it up his first college, he left because they had told him they were going to open up the offense but when he got there they stayed in the wishbone......

I would like to point out Mike Cherry, he sucked here, transferred to a D2 school, had a nice career, was drafted and sits on the bench in NY. He sucked here, who knows why, sometimes players just don't fit a system. Not b/c of bad coaching or whatever, or not even b/c of lack of talent on the players part, sometimes players just dont fit a system. TJ didn't fit ours, that doesn't neccesarily make him a bad player, nor does it make Nutt a bad coach b/c TJ went to a different school and had a good career. I will remind everyone that Troy Aikmen stunk it up at his first college of choice, had a good career at his second stop. WOuld anyone argue that Troy wasn't a good qb? What about the coach that he trasnferred away from?? Anyone? Anyone?

[lyon98]

i dont think aikman stunk it up his first college, he left because they had told him they were going to open up the offense but when he got there they stayed in the wishbone......

I would like to point out Mike Cherry, he sucked here, transferred to a D2 school, had a nice career, was drafted and sits on the bench in NY. He sucked here, who knows why, sometimes players just don't fit a system. Not b/c of bad coaching or whatever, or not even b/c of lack of talent on the players part, sometimes players just dont fit a system. TJ didn't fit ours, that doesn't neccesarily make him a bad player, nor does it make Nutt a bad coach b/c TJ went to a different school and had a good career. I will remind everyone that Troy Aikmen stunk it up at his first college of choice, had a good career at his second stop. WOuld anyone argue that Troy wasn't a good qb? What about the coach that he trasnferred away from?? Anyone? Anyone?

Switzer helped Troy get to ucla.

[EastexHawg]

Switzer was going to open up the offense more with Aikman at QB, but Troy broke his leg.  Jamelle Holloway came in and led the Sooners to the national championship as a freshman in 1985.  What was Switzer going to do...replace the QB who won the national title?

Aikman transferred to UCLA.

At least that's the way I remember it.

[lyon98]

Switzer was going to open up the offense more with Aikman at QB, but Troy broke his leg.  Jamelle Holloway came in and led the Sooners to the national championship as a freshman in 1985.  What was Switzer going to do...replace the QB who won the national title?

Aikman transferred to UCLA.

At least that's the way I remember it.

That's right and Switzer helped get Troy into ucla. Generous? He really didn't want Aikman in an area they might to compete with.

[wrightobe]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

[razorbackfan502000]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

Neither race nor locality was the issue. THE issue was the fact that he wasn't the best qb on campus.

[BigHog396]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

Neither race nor locality was the issue. THE issue was the fact that he wasn't the best qb on campus.

Yeah, but stupid people can't get that through their thick skulls.

[Salvaboar Dali]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

Neither race nor locality was the issue. THE issue was the fact that he wasn't the best qb on campus.

Yeah, but stupid people can't get that through their thick skulls.

We just appear stupid to people with their head in the sand. The nativism is obvious.

[BigHog396]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

Neither race nor locality was the issue. THE issue was the fact that he wasn't the best qb on campus.

Yeah, but stupid people can't get that through their thick skulls.

We just appear stupid to people with their head in the sand. The nativism is obvious.

What does "nativism" have to do with who PERFORMS on the field.  TJ was not even in the same league as Matt, and it was shown over and over on the field.  If you were too blind to see that, there is no point in even discussing this.

[Salvaboar Dali]

here we go, more racial issues.  there is no one in their right mind that would think that matt wasnt the best option for us at qb while he was here

I live in the NW Arkansas area, have been a Razorback fan since I knew anything about football, and yes, I love NW Arkansas, and I do not believe your analysis on the Jones/Jackson factor at all.

I, could care less if Robert Johnson wins the starting qb position, over the other contenders, including Mustain, who is from Springdale, one of my favorite towns, if he, Johnson, truly is the best and wins the spot.

If your opinion is correct, which I strongly disagree that it is, then Mustain is the man, because the OC, Malzahn, is from Springdale, and his old coach.

The coaches get paid to win, and to do that, they will play the best, based on practice, round table discussions, films, experience, and they could care less what state or town they are from.

In closing, for the coaches, this is their livelihood, and winning means more money, and bigger paychecks, so it is to their own best interest to play the best.



That is not what I said. Read it again.

There were a FEW that openly attacked him for his race. However, the real issue was his locality. To ignore either point, however, would not complete the picture.

Neither race nor locality was the issue. THE issue was the fact that he wasn't the best qb on campus.

Yeah, but stupid people can't get that through their thick skulls.

We just appear stupid to people with their head in the sand. The nativism is obvious.

What does "nativism" have to do with who PERFORMS on the field.  TJ was not even in the same league as Matt, and it was shown over and over on the field.  If you were too blind to see that, there is no point in even discussing this.

Nativism has NOTHING to do with performance. The fact is that there were people asking for MJ to start without ever seeing him perform. The same happened with Brashears. The same is happening now with Mustain. Nobody clamored for Stoerner before he proved himself. The difference is Nativism. We have a large contingent of fans that want to see the local QB to start every time we sign one. That is Nativism and it exists everywhere - including the UA.

This is a well documented Sociological aspect of sports in general. I'll recommend AT THE NEXUS OF LABOR AND LEISURE: BASEBALL, NATIVISM, AND THE 1919 BLACK SOX SCANDAL.   By: Robin Bachin. Basically, we tend to support sport icons we can identify with. If a QB is from Arkansas, he is way ahead of others in popularity off the bat. Therefore, MJ had a head start on TJ before either took a snap. IMO, to argue the contrary is either ignorance or denial.

[BigHog396]

Of course people want to see the local boy go out and whip everyone.  The point is there were people on here arguing that TJ didn't get a fair shake.  He was given every opportunity to excell here and couldn't do it.  Houston wanted Matt at WR so bad he could taste it.  That is why Matt worked at WR so much in the spring and fall drills every year he was here.  IF there had been a QB on campus that could have consistently gotten the ball to him, he would have started.

In the end, the fact is you want your most dangerous player to have his hands on the ball as much as is humanly possible.  There was never anyone on campus who could stay on the field with him, and he became the QB by default.  If there had been ANY receivers on campus in Matt's tenure, other than Monk during Matt's senior year, there would be no discussion about who the greatest QB in Arkansas history is.  Give Matt an Anthony Lucas, JJ Meadors, James Shibest, or Chuck Dicus to throw to (any one of the above), and he would have held every major record in the books for Arkansas QB's.  Instead he had the most inept group of WR's that any QB in recent memory has had to deal with.

[Salvaboar Dali]

Of course people want to see the local boy go out and whip everyone.  The point is there were people on here arguing that TJ didn't get a fair shake.  He was given every opportunity to excell here and couldn't do it.  Houston wanted Matt at WR so bad he could taste it.  That is why Matt worked at WR so much in the spring and fall drills every year he was here.  IF there had been a QB on campus that could have consistently gotten the ball to him, he would have started.

In the end, the fact is you want your most dangerous player to have his hands on the ball as much as is humanly possible.  There was never anyone on campus who could stay on the field with him, and he became the QB by default.  If there had been ANY receivers on campus in Matt's tenure, other than Monk during Matt's senior year, there would be no discussion about who the greatest QB in Arkansas history is.  Give Matt an Anthony Lucas, JJ Meadors, James Shibest, or Chuck Dicus to throw to (any one of the above), and he would have held every major record in the books for Arkansas QB's.  Instead he had the most inept group of WR's that any QB in recent memory has had to deal with.

Technically, they are right. The favor of one comes at the cost of another. Personally, I do not think TJ got a "fair shake", but I will also concede that he (TJ) did not do much to prove himself in game situations - no matter how sorry his opportunities were.

The problem that bugs me with TJ and Sorahan both is did we field our best TEAM. Given game-time to develop, could either have made this a better team THROWING to MJ? I do not know and do not make that claim, but I do wonder and TJ's development after Arkansas only makes me more curious.

[Boss Hogg]

MAN!!!  I wish he woulda played at Arkansas!  We woulda kicked as.....  uhhhh..... oh yeah..... he DID play here.... I mean.... just think if he had played at LSU or Miami or USC, he'd be the next Vick..

[wrightobe]

 

[/quote]The problem that bugs me with TJ and Sorahan both is did we field our best TEAM. Given game-time to develop, could either have made this a better team THROWING to MJ? I do not know and do not make that claim, but I do wonder and TJ's development after Arkansas only makes me more curious.

[/quote]Then we have the example of Mike Cherry, drop back quarterback from Texarkana, I believe, who's expectations were not met at Arkansas, transferred to Murray State, and under Nutt, set some passing records, in the conference, and then was signed by the New York Giants.

Go tell!!!

[Salvaboar Dali]

The problem that bugs me with TJ and Sorahan both is did we field our best TEAM. Given game-time to develop, could either have made this a better team THROWING to MJ? I do not know and do not make that claim, but I do wonder and TJ's development after Arkansas only makes me more curious.

[color=pink][/quote]Then we have the example of Mike Cherry, drop back quarterback from Texarkana, I believe, who's expectations were not met at Arkansas, transferred to Murray State, and under Nutt, set some passing records, in the conference, and then was signed by the New York Giants.

Go tell!!![/color]
[/quote]

What does that have to do with my point? IN fact, it kinda reinforces it. Who kept Cherry on the Bench? Lunny from NWA.

[wrightobe]

The problem that bugs me with TJ and Sorahan both is did we field our best TEAM. Given game-time to develop, could either have made this a better team THROWING to MJ? I do not know and do not make that claim, but I do wonder and TJ's development after Arkansas only makes me more curious.

[color=pink]

Then we have the example of Mike Cherry, drop back quarterback from Texarkana, I believe, who's expectations were not met at Arkansas, transferred to Murray State, and under Nutt, set some passing records, in the conference, and then was signed by the New York Giants.

Go tell!!![/color][/color]
[/quote]

What does that have to do with my point? IN fact, it kinda reinforces it. Who kept Cherry on the Bench? Lunny from NWA.
[/quote]My point was that Mike Cherry blossomed under Nutt's coaching and play calling.

With reference to the home cookin about players, and who gets to play, we have had many quarterbacks
from out of state to start for Arkansas, including some transfers.

Some that come to mind are George McKinney, Don Christian, Bill Montgomery, Robert Johnson, Casey Dick, and I am sure I have not even scratched the surface.

[lyon98]

Some one can fill in the blanks as to where they were from, Britttenum, Calgagni, Grovey, Marshall. Scanlon, just to name some all SWC QBs. Calcagni and Scanlon were from out of state.

[Salvaboar Dali]

The problem that bugs me with TJ and Sorahan both is did we field our best TEAM. Given game-time to develop, could either have made this a better team THROWING to MJ? I do not know and do not make that claim, but I do wonder and TJ's development after Arkansas only makes me more curious.

[color=pink]

Then we have the example of Mike Cherry, drop back quarterback from Texarkana, I believe, who's expectations were not met at Arkansas, transferred to Murray State, and under Nutt, set some passing records, in the conference, and then was signed by the New York Giants.

Go tell!!![/color][/color]

What does that have to do with my point? IN fact, it kinda reinforces it. Who kept Cherry on the Bench? Lunny from NWA.
[/quote]My point was that Mike Cherry blossomed under Nutt's coaching and play calling.

With reference to the home cookin about players, and who gets to play, we have had many quarterbacks
from out of state to start for Arkansas, including some transfers.

Some that come to mind are George McKinney, Don Christian, Bill Montgomery, Robert Johnson, Casey Dick, and I am sure I have not even scratched the surface.
[/quote]

Then the question becomes:
a) were there native Arkansan QB's on the roster at the same time, and
b) were the QB's similarly talented, and
c) were the Out-of-state QB's entrenched or was there and opportunity for the native Arkansan QB to establish himself.

The last native Arkansas QB to lose the starting job, I believe, was Houston Dale Nutt. However, this was also under Holtz who just doesn't give a damn about fan politics. HDN is VERY sensative about Fan politics, IMO.

[brooks74]

So, if and when MM comes in and starts next year will you guys be screaming favoritism when he has a bad game that it is because he's white and from Springdale and is the only reason he is starting ahead of RJ and CD?

[EastexHawg]

Who was clamoring for Matt to start before they ever even saw him play?  I never heard or saw any of that.

The difference between Matt Jones and Tarvaris Jackson (among other things...like the fact that TJ not only wasn't in Matt's class as a QB...he wasn't even in the same universe) was that Matt made plays from the moment he stepped on the field.  He made the fourth down runs on the game-winning drive against South Carolina in Little Rock.  The week after that, he took an option keeper 59 yards for a TD and ran for over 80 yards on three carries.  The week after that, he threw a TD on his first college pass and ran Auburn ragged in a 42-17 win over a ranked opponent at RRS.

And the week after that...he was the national player of the week for his performance in the Seventh Heaven epic with Ole Miss.

As I said before, that's how players gain more playing time...they EARN it when given opportunities.  Matt earned more playing time by outproducing everyone else on the field every time he got in the game.  Nutt didn't want to play him as a freshman.  In fact, he played at least four QBs in the first game of Matt's freshman season against UNLV...including TJack...but left Matt on the bench.  MJ forced his way into the lineup because no defense could stop him, either on the practice field or in games.

TJack's situation was exactly the opposite.  Nutt wanted to play him, and kept giving him playing time even though he never produced anything as a Razorback.

Trying to make this about race, nativism, or anything else other than the better QB winning the job is simply refusing to acknowledge the obvious.

[12under]

Who was clamoring for Matt to start before they ever even saw him play?  I never heard or saw any of that.

The difference between Matt Jones and Tarvaris Jackson (among other things...like the fact that TJ not only wasn't in Matt's class as a QB...he wasn't even in the same universe) was that Matt made plays from the moment he stepped on the field.  He made the fourth down runs on the game-winning drive against South Carolina in Little Rock.  The week after that, he took an option keeper 59 yards for a TD and ran for over 80 yards on three carries.  The week after that, he threw a TD on his first college pass and ran Auburn ragged in a 42-17 win over a ranked opponent at RRS.

And the week after that...he was the national player of the week for his performance in the Seventh Heaven epic with Ole Miss.

As I said before, that's how players gain more playing time...they EARN it when given opportunities.  Matt earned more playing time by outproducing everyone else on the field every time he got in the game.  Nutt didn't want to play him as a freshman.  In fact, he played at least four QBs in the first game of Matt's freshman season against UNLV...including TJack...but left Matt on the bench.  MJ forced his way into the lineup because no defense could stop him, either on the practice field or in games.

TJack's situation was exactly the opposite.  Nutt wanted to play him, and kept giving him playing time even though he never produced anything as a Razorback.

Trying to make this about race, nativism, or anything else other than the better QB winning the job is simply refusing to acknowledge the obvious.

exactly right.  ill even admit that when i heard we signed matt jones, i wasnt exactly thrilled.  i had never seen him play, just highlights, and wasnt impressed.  boy, was i wrong.

[EastexHawg]

I didn't even know who Matt Jones was until the South Carolina game.  I wouldn't have recognized him in a lineup with Lou Holtz and Aretha Franklin...I honestly didn't know if he was a black guy or a white guy.  And I certainly wasn't clamoring for him to be the QB. 

I remember sitting in my seat during the boring final part of the Weber State game.  I guess I didn't even pay any attention when Jones came in at QB.  But when he broke that 59-yarder on (I think) his first carry, stiff-arming three tacklers along the way, I sat up and said, "Whoa!  What the heck do we have here?"