Football in Arkansas

[aar0n]

With ASU and UCA continually improving football talent year to year, as well as attendance, could they ever shadow the scale of the Razorbacks?  I realize this was UCA's first season as a D-1 school, but they were a major surprise to everyone.  ASU has fielded quality teams the last few years, and slowly gets better and better.  On any scale of time (meaning 1 year to 100 years), could they ever rival the scale of the Razorbacks?  Why or why not?

[booogaga]

uhhhh. are you being serious right now.

[aar0n]

uhhhh. are you being serious right now.

It's called a hypothetical question.  Look it up.

[JudgeHogg]

You have got to be kidding, right?

[gohogsgo006]

Right now  = No
10 years = No
20 years = gaining alittle, but No
30 years = might be more competitive

[Bigfoot]

i think its safe to say no. arkansas will always be top dog in the state! there is no reason to believe otherwise! both of those other school's have been doing good of late,but no reason for razorback nation to worry about being taken over by either one of those school's!

[SigHog87]

With ASU and UCA continually improving football talent year to year, as well as attendance, could they ever shadow the scale of the Razorbacks?  I realize this was UCA's first season as a D-1 school, but they were a major surprise to everyone.  ASU has fielded quality teams the last few years, and slowly gets better and better.  On any scale of time (meaning 1 year to 100 years), could they ever rival the scale of the Razorbacks?  Why or why not?

No... one word...

Tradition...

another word

money... the majority of the state supports UofA

[aar0n]

Right now  = No
10 years = No
20 years = gaining alittle, but No
30 years = might be more competitive

Thank you for actually engaging in a little thought.  I didn't mean next year or even 10 years from now.  Just over time.

[HoggySTruman]

what a garbage topic......i mean i like both those other schools but good grief

[Hugulus Hog]

It's a good question.

I don't think that ASU ever will due to location.

Given that UCA is growth oriented, centrally located and already the best education available in Arkansas, I think UCA will rival the hogs within 25 years.  15 if UA moves all the games to F-ville in the next 5 years.

[ebay286]

No... one word...

Tradition...

another word

money... the majority of the state supports UofA

The real word though is winning, if you win i don't care who you are you will start to fill up that stadium.  If ASU or UCA ever started seriously beating people, which probably wouldnt happen for another 15-20 years,  they could definitely rival the UofA. 

[hogdiggity]

UCA is rapidly growing, has a lot of tradition at winning in football, not at the same level.  I think they have a great chance of stepping over ASU.  I may be biased being alumni of UCA, but they have some great things going on and they do not have a real shortage of money from boosters either, just drive to conway and look at the campus, first class these days.  May not ever be the UofA in the SEC, but UCA will one day be as good as any university in the sunbelt, IMHO.

[Hugulus Hog]

UCA is rapidly growing, has a lot of tradition at winning in football, not at the same level.  I think they have a great chance of stepping over ASU.  I may be biased being alumni of UCA, but they have some great things going on and they do not have a real shortage of money from boosters either, just drive to conway and look at the campus, first class these days.  May not ever be the UofA in the SEC, but UCA will one day be as good as any university in the sunbelt, IMHO.

Agree completely.  I wouldn't be surprised to see UCA become the next USF.  Who would have believed another Florida school could compete nationally in a state that already has Miami, Florida and Florida State?

[SLC]

With ASU and UCA continually improving football talent year to year, as well as attendance, could they ever shadow the scale of the Razorbacks?  I realize this was UCA's first season as a D-1 school, but they were a major surprise to everyone.  ASU has fielded quality teams the last few years, and slowly gets better and better.  On any scale of time (meaning 1 year to 100 years), could they ever rival the scale of the Razorbacks?  Why or why not?

I do think it is possible.  I do not have an example in college football but do have some retail examples that may be useful.

Right now, everyone pretty much agrees that Wal-Mart dominates the retail sector in the US.  Whether you agree or not, that is not my point.  In it's heyday, K-Mart had almost 5,000 locations, which is more locations than Wal-Mart has now even when considering all Supercenters, Sam's Clubs, Neighborhood Markets or the old, smaller general merchandising stores.  I believe Wal-Mart has around 4300 locations currently, and are slowing growth.  K-Mart fell off its perch to a newer, hungrier and more adaptable competitor in Wal-Mart.  Go back to 1900, and the old A&P Chain stores had over 10,000 locations!  Where is A&P now? 

When we look at the great college football programs and traditions, very few predate the 1950s.  Florida's tradition truly began in the 1990's. 

100 years from now or sooner, NE Arkansas may be the big, fast growing area of state, or the Helena, or somewhere outside of NWA.  So yes, I think it possible for one of those schools to take off.  I would think it more likely for UCA, with it's surrounding population and wealth in Central Arkansas, but you never know.

Those are some of the reasons I do not believe it in the Hogs best interest to play either school.  Plus, we need all the press in areas we want to recruit, such as MS, TX, OK, LA, TN, etc.........  Even if it is local areas.  It is also why the aTm contract would be huge.

Disagree with me if you will, but just my thoughts. 

[Sao Ming]

What conference do you see UCA in within that 30 year span?


There's your answer.

[SigHog87]

I hope UCA switches colors if they ever become a powerhouse

[3kgthog]

No amount of winning by ASU or UCA will ever rival the Razorbacks. Just like no amount of winning by the Houston Texans will ever rival the Cowboys in Texas. Many ASU and UCA fans are Razorback fans first anyway.

[hogdiggity]

What conference do you see UCA in within that 30 year span?


There's your answer.

Who knows, 30 years ago nobody believed UA would be in the SEC.  I wouldn't be surprised to see UCA in the sunbelt, conf. usa or something equiv. in the next 10-15 years, and doing quiet well.  Don't discount UCA all together, they have a vision for thier university and their athletic programs. 

[HoginHouston]

ASU or UCA have zero chance of seriously challenging Arkansas for statewide support, money, or recruits. Why? Tradition is a big part of it. I am only one of many Arkansans who were trained as a young child to support the Hogs. No one does this for UCA or ASU. I was trained, and I will train my children. What that means is that Hog support grows exponentially every year, as more Hogs teach the ways to our children. And it has absolutely nothing to do with where people attend school. I chose a different school than U of A, but I never stopped spending serious amounts of cash to follow my Hogs.

Beyond that, the Hogs play in the SEC and are always on TV. UCA has made some strides, but none that in any way threaten the Arkansas football program. And the minute they try to present themselves as an alternative to the Hogs, their own alumni will turn on them. Bottom line: the Hogs have the heart of this state, and anyone who thinks that will change should tell me what they are smoking cause I want some!

[Brownie Tuggle]

The growth and potential at UCA and ASU are good. Yet in still the Hog Nation will not fade to these two. They should play one another though. ASU and UCA should play each other forever! They need to sign a long term contract and make thier game the True Rivalry Game the Hogs will never have.  UCA vs ASU would sellout every year and keep money in the State.

[Sao Ming]

Who knows, 30 years ago nobody believed UA would be in the SEC.  I wouldn't be surprised to see UCA in the sunbelt, conf. usa or something equiv. in the next 10-15 years, and doing quiet well.  Don't discount UCA all together, they have a vision for thier university and their athletic programs. 

So, what conference do you see them in? 

[canonhog]

I am from jonesesboro can't hardly root for ASU because of the fans  but tho answer the ? it will be a long time befor that happens.

[hogdiggity]

The growth and potential at UCA and ASU are good. Yet in still the Hog Nation will not fade to these two. They should play one another though. ASU and UCA should play each other forever! They need to sign a long term contract and make thier game the True Rivalry Game the Hogs will never have.  UCA vs ASU would sellout every year and keep money in the State.

I would like to see the ASU/UCA rivalry myself.  I think Arkansas can support all 3 universities fine.  How about this, between Little Rock, Conway, and Fayetteville you could go to a very good football game almost every saturday in the fall.

[aar0n]

ASU or UCA have zero chance of seriously challenging Arkansas for statewide support, money, or recruits. Why? Tradition is a big part of it. I am only one of many Arkansans who were trained as a young child to support the Hogs. No one does this for UCA or ASU. I was trained, and I will train my children. What that means is that Hog support grows exponentially every year, as more Hogs teach the ways to our children. And it has absolutely nothing to do with where people attend school. I chose a different school than U of A, but I never stopped spending serious amounts of cash to follow my Hogs.

Beyond that, the Hogs play in the SEC and are always on TV. UCA has made some strides, but none that in any way threaten the Arkansas football program. And the minute they try to present themselves as an alternative to the Hogs, their own alumni will turn on them. Bottom line: the Hogs have the heart of this state, and anyone who thinks that will change should tell me what they are smoking cause I want some!

I somewhat agree, but if UCA starts winning, who's to say the ever-growing UCA alums wont train their children to support UCA? 

[hogdiggity]

So, what conference do you see them in? 

probably the sunbelt or conf usa

[Sao Ming]

probably the sunbelt or conf usa

Nuff said.

Tell me when Troy takes over Alabama or North Texas dominates Texas.

[Hugulus Hog]

probably the sunbelt or conf usa

If enrollment goes over 30k, why should they stay in one of those conferences?  I wouldn't be surprised if UCA became the largest student population in the state in 30 years.  At that point you have to wonder:  will Baylor stay in the Big XII forever?

[hogdiggity]

Nuff said.

Tell me when Troy takes over Alabama or North Texas dominates Texas.

I never said they would take over Arkansas.  I think they will be a 2nd tier program but will give tier 1 programs all they can handle and beat a fair share of them in the coming years. 

UCA will have a larger enrollement than Arkansas in 5 years, they have had larger freshmen classes the last 2 years and have plenty of wealthy alumni helping the athletics program.

[aar0n]

If enrollment goes over 30k, why should they stay in one of those conferences?  I wouldn't be surprised if UCA became the largest student population in the state in 30 years.  At that point you have to wonder:  will Baylor stay in the Big XII forever?

I agree.  UCA's campus and enrollment size is increasing dramatically year by year, and that is with tuition now being more expensive than U of A in most fields.  Besides, who knows how the conferences will fare 10 years from now even?

[Sao Ming]

I never said they would take over Arkansas.  I think they will be a 2nd tier program but will give tier 1 programs all they can handle and beat a fair share of them in the coming years. 

UCA will have a larger enrollement than Arkansas in 5 years, they have had larger freshmen classes the last 2 years and have plenty of wealthy alumni helping the athletics program.

Explain how student enrollment dictates the premise of this thread which is athletics.

[hogdiggity]

Explain how student enrollment dictates the premise of this thread which is athletics.

Income/budget, alumni, game attendance. 

Look, I'm a hog fan first, but I think UCA is moving up in the college world, both athletic wise and academic wise

[aar0n]

Explain how student enrollment dictates the premise of this thread which is athletics.

More students=more money, attention, athletics fan-base
Most importantly is the obvious.  More students=more athletes

[Hugulus Hog]

Explain how student enrollment dictates the premise of this thread which is athletics.

More money, more alumni, more regional appeal, more resources, more prestige.  All UCA has to do is win in that equation.

[Sao Ming]

More money, more alumni, more regional appeal, more resources, more prestige.  All UCA has to do is win in that equation.

What is their avg attendance for home games today.

[HoginHouston]

I somewhat agree, but if UCA starts winning, who's to say the ever-growing UCA alums wont train their children to support UCA? 

I see what you are saying (things will not necessarily always stay the way they are). But I would submit that, based on nothing more than my own friends who are UCA grads, it is unlikely to happen. I have tons of UCA friends, and they are all hard-core Hog fans. In fact, we tailgate together and travel together to games. My point is that where people attend school seems to have little effect on their sports life. Not that these friends do not occassionally go back to UCA for games, but it's just a different deal, you know? They are just as avid Hog fans as everyone else in the state. Their kids will grow (and some are growing up) as Hog fans. Their college choice won't have much impact on that.

No one lives or dies with UCA football, but we all do with Hog football! I am surprised this is even a controversy. I honestly don't know any UCA people who want their program to rival Arkansas. They just think it's a fun activity when the Hogs aren't playing...

[Sao Ming]

Nevermind.

Look at this.  What's wrong with this picture?  Think alumni can fix it? ? ?

2007 FOOTBALL AVERAGE ATTENDANCE

1. Arkansas (66,033)
2. Arkansas State (17,040)
3. Arkansas Pine Bluff (12,542)
4. University of Central Arkansas (10,283)
5. Arkansas Tech (5,567)
6. Ouachita Baptist (4,651)
7. Henderson State (4,479)
8. Southern Arkansas (4,420)
9. Harding (3,200)

[hogdiggity]

What is their avg attendance for home games today.

couldn't find numbers on thier web site, but it is low, growing but low compared to Arkansas.  I think their are minimum requirements to stay division 1 however.  Better competition will help this too. 
they aren't going to have 50 thousand in the stands, unless they play UA, ASU, or major powers

[Hugulus Hog]

I see what you are saying (things will not necessarily always stay the way they are). But I would submit that, based on nothing more than my own friends who are UCA grads, it is unlikely to happen. I have tons of UCA friends, and they are all hard-core Hog fans. In fact, we tailgate together and travel together to games. My point is that where people attend school seems to have little effect on their sports life. Not that these friends do not occassionally go back to UCA for games, but it's just a different deal, you know? They are just as avid Hog fans as everyone else in the state. Their kids will grow (and some are growing up) as Hog fans. Their college choice won't have much impact on that.

No one lives or dies with UCA football, but we all do with Hog football! I am surprised this is even a controversy. I honestly don't know any UCA people who want their program to rival Arkansas. They just think it's a fun activity when the Hogs aren't playing...

I'm not sure anyone would deny this.  I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm suggesting that if UCA continues to grow and develop all aspects of their school in a positive direction they will probably be the largest/best school in the state.  If they win sort of like USF, they will attract a larger fan base.  If the Hogs continue to be mediocre like we always have been, who is to say that people won't choose to support the winning program?  In 30 years it may well be that people still regard the hogs as sort of a "state mascot" but go to UCA games.

I'm not suggesting that hog fans are going to be making any great exodus to UCA in 2008, just noting that UCA is doing more things right for the future.

[ebay286]

More money, more alumni, more regional appeal, more resources, more prestige.  All UCA has to do is win in that equation.

Middle Tennessee is the biggest university in the state, UCF has 50,000 students and also has the most in the state and look at their programs.  Students help but winning is the real factor. 

[aar0n]

I see what you are saying (things will not necessarily always stay the way they are). But I would submit that, based on nothing more than my own friends who are UCA grads, it is unlikely to happen. I have tons of UCA friends, and they are all hard-core Hog fans. In fact, we tailgate together and travel together to games. My point is that where people attend school seems to have little effect on their sports life. Not that these friends do not occassionally go back to UCA for games, but it's just a different deal, you know? They are just as avid Hog fans as everyone else in the state. Their kids will grow (and some are growing up) as Hog fans. Their college choice won't have much impact on that.

No one lives or dies with UCA football, but we all do with Hog football! I am surprised this is even a controversy. I honestly don't know any UCA people who want their program to rival Arkansas. They just think it's a fun activity when the Hogs aren't playing...

I attend UCA and am a huge hog fan.  But, if the bears gained enough momentum, you would see a complete change in UCA alum attitude toward the program.  Chances are, your friends are not recent grads, and even if so, probably didn't pay much attention to the football program which has just recently hit a major growth spurt.  All Im saying is that it's possible for UCA to dominate their conference, whichever one it may be, and garner major attention.  This could change the future for better or worse.  All Im saying is that it's possible

[hogninja]

You have tradition at the UofA that you can never eclipse, but I do believe that UCA is building a very solid base to grow into a power.  Centrally located and growing very fast into an enrollment competition with NWA.  Numbers dictate growth by funding and support.
Make no mistake, AT THIS TIME, UA is the flagship.  I could see UCA in the sunbelt very soon AND with success and MORE growth, could end up in the Big 12 if they show more than some of the teams there. Of course 15-20 years out. JMHO :razorback:
Yes, I'm a homer.  My daughter goes there so I do get more of a feel about what the university is trying to do.  They ARE trying to grow into a power as another choice as a Major university in AR.

[aar0n]

UCA will have just as much "tradition" in 25 years as the UofA has now.  Humans are naturally bandwagoners and enjoy success.  If the Razorbacks put together a series of bad seasons (heaven forbid) at any point, and UCA flourises during those same times, then people will naturally shift focus to UCA, for at least the time being. 

[Sao Ming]

UCA will have just as much "tradition" in 25 years as the UofA has now.  Humans are naturally bandwagoners and enjoy success.  If the Razorbacks put together a series of bad seasons (heaven forbid) at any point, and UCA flourises during those same times, then people will naturally shift focus to UCA, for at least the time being. 

I'm 36, born and raised in Texas, attended the U of A and have never cheered for another team other than the Razorbacks.  Bandwagon fans is not what the U of A is known for.  It's quiet the opposite.

[hogdiggity]

I'm 36, born and raised in Texas, attended the U of A and have never cheered for another team other than the Razorbacks.  Bandwagon fans is not what the U of A is known for.  It's quiet the opposite.

OK, let me ask you this question, what do you really know of UCA?  If you want to tell us that UCA can never have a following like UCA, you have to know where they have been and what their history is. 

Just one thing to tell you, they have won and been very successful at every level they have competed at so far, no reason to expect that they can't do that in division 1, it may not, but they have proven they will do whatever it takes to make a winning program at whatever level they are at. 

[dmac4sainthood]

In a word...no!

Arkansas is not a big enough state.  There just is not enough money or people to go around to have dueling rivals. 

Many Arkansas fans are UCA fans or some are even UCA alums.  Arkansas and Arkansas State are just different levels.  That is like asking (and it is tough to come up with examples because there are very few states with only one major program but has peripherals) and lets say for lack of a better eample that Northwestern didn't exist...can Northern Illinois be on the same level as Illinois?  The answer no...and there are far more people in that state.  Heck can ULM or ULL ever be on the same level as LSU?  No...in fact except for the week of the year when LSU is destroying those teams, I bet the UL-L/M fans are rooting for LSU.

[Sao Ming]

OK, let me ask you this question, what do you really know of UCA?  If you want to tell us that UCA can never have a following like UCA, you have to know where they have been and what their history is. 

Just one thing to tell you, they have won and been very successful at every level they have competed at so far, no reason to expect that they can't do that in division 1, it may not, but they have proven they will do whatever it takes to make a winning program at whatever level they are at. 

I don't know much about them.  I don't know much about Western Michigan, Northern Iowa, Central Connecticut or SW Louisiana either, other than they are afterthoughts in their respective states re: Football. 

[hogdiggity]

I don't know much about them.  I don't know much about Western Michigan, Northern Iowa, Central Connecticut or SW Louisiana either, other than they are afterthoughts in their respective states re: Football. 

You might want to read a little about them, UCA has several national championships on a smaller level.  The impressive thing about national championships at that level is, they actually have a playoff not a poll. 

I doubt UCA will ever be a UA, but they will come closer than ASU.  In 5 years, they will win whatever conf they are in, so far UA hasn't done that.  I know, the southland isn't the sec, but the talent they get isn't what the sec gets either!

[preach33]

No... one word...

Tradition...

another word


money... the majority of the state supports UofA

Three facts that may NEVER be overcome by ASU and UCA

[Sao Ming]

You might want to read a little about them, UCA has several national championships on a smaller level.  The impressive thing about national championships at that level is, they actually have a playoff not a poll. 

I doubt UCA will ever be a UA, but they will come closer than ASU.  In 5 years, they will win whatever conf they are in, so far UA hasn't done that.  I know, the southland isn't the sec, but the talent they get isn't what the sec gets either!

I don't care enough to read up friend.  That's the point of the thread in essence, isn't it?  Speculation that fans such as myself and others WILL care?  You may have a fine educational institution but at the end of the day it's UCA football with an avg attendance of 10K at home and on the road.  You play teams who don't care and you live in a state, apparently, who does not care.  That's not going to change no matter what kind of rent a win program you turn yourselves into.

Good luck.

[hogdiggity]

I don't care enough to read up friend.  That's the point of the thread in essence, isn't it?  Speculation that fans such as myself and others WILL care?  You may have a fine educational institution but at the end of the day it's UCA football with an avg attendance of 10K at home and on the road.  You play teams who don't care and you live in a state, apparently, who does not care.  That's not going to change no matter what kind of rent a win program you turn yourselves into.

Good luck.

If you will check....way back I said I was a Razorback fan first.  I have a big enough love for football to be able to support more than 1 school in our great state however.  UCA will start playing larger schools, they would play UA today if UA would be brave enough to play instate schools.  But that is a whole 'nother topic.