Picking up the Pieces

[WilsonHog]

I've moved past feeling too much about the three players arrested yesterday. If they are innocent, I hope that will become known and they will be able to get on with their lives. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished accordingly.

This is very likely to be a rough ride. Even if the three players are able to work out a favorable deal, I can't imagine that anything less than having the charges dropped or being acquitted will ever allow them to represent the Razorbacks again.

My concern now, and moving forward, is with the players left in the wake of this mess, because they have a perspective I don't have. They've invested time representing our university and State, and will continue to do so. The team they were a part of yesterday morning doesn't look much like the one they will wake up to this morning. Some players will have to assume starting positions before they likely are ready to. New leaders will have to emerge. In the midst of all of that, some of the team's "fans" will abandon them. Even worse, some will stick around and take shots at the players who are trying to pick up the pieces, as if they are somehow to blame for any of this.
   
Good luck fellas. The great majority of Razorback fans are with you, and will continue to be.

[Razorbacks#1]

Well said Tom. I will support them during the highs and the lows. Go RAZORBACKS!

[Mick Hogger]

They're still my Hogs. I'm not going anywhere and will still attend my average 4-5 games and cheer just as loud. These guys didn't do anything to cause me to abandon my support for them.

[SRV]

Woo pig!!!

Never yield

[Arkiebarkie]

We will be fine, Mike will handle this and we will just need to show support. Great fans will stay on board!

[PonderinHog]

Adversity doesn't necessarily build character, but it does reveal character.

Go Hogs!   :razorback:  :razorback: :razorback:

[Big Nasty 34]

Adversity doesn't necessarily build character, but it does reveal character.

Go Hogs!   :razorback:  :razorback: :razorback:

And I think the character of the remaining guys will be very high. Sadly, however, there just aren't enough of them. I hope hog fans still support the team. We need to show recruits we are the best fans in the nation. Give them a reason to call the hogs!

[ArkansasI]

Come on, you are a reasonable and good human being - right?  I see contradiction in what you offer.  Picking up the pieces... really?

I've moved past feeling too much about the three players arrested yesterday. If they are innocent, I hope that will become known and they will be able to get on with their lives. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished accordingly.

I might be able to move past these guys if they were unknown to me, but Razorback athletes are personal.  My first thoughts are with these guys and their families...  I want to believe that they are victims of predators.  I assume that they have little money, and apparently have very low expectations of themselves.  Perhaps they were offered something that seemed real easy and it met a perceived need.

If this is the case, I want to understand...  My paternal instincts may allow me to see past my complete disappointment in their decisions.  Really, really bad decisions.

If they are more actively involved, then I am pissed off at them.  They are common thiefs - perhaps they are the predators and it sickens me that they are sharing a locker room and all the benefits of being Razorbacks with others that are trying to get through life honestly and with integrity.  Don't reward criminal aspirations with opportunities of a lifetime.  Recruit better men.

This is very likely to be a rough ride. Even if the three players are able to work out a favorable deal, I can't imagine that anything less than having the charges dropped or being acquitted will ever allow them to represent the Razorbacks again.

We agree.  This is a huge deal.  The players have likely blown their best life opportunity - this crushes me.  And the university from which I hold two degrees gets another shot taken at it for having dumbass athletes.

Great way to build a program.

Oh, and the basketball team may continue to suck, too.   

My concern now, and moving forward, is with the players left in the wake of this mess, because they have a perspective I don't have. They've invested time representing our university and State, and will continue to do so. The team they were a part of yesterday morning doesn't look much like the one they will wake up to this morning. Some players will have to assume starting positions before they likely are ready to. New leaders will have to emerge. In the midst of all of that, some of the team's "fans" will abandon them. Even worse, some will stick around and take shots at the players who are trying to pick up the pieces, as if they are somehow to blame for any of this.

The sorrow I have for the remaining players is that they may have lost good friends to bad decisions - this is tragic.  On the other hand, I don't know any of the accused personally, so perhaps they've rid themselves of criminals.  We shall see.

As players, they may have just received more opportunity than they had before...  If players will have to play, that's the least of my concerns.

I'm really sick of all the shots that we take as fans.  I cannot imagine a single Arkansas Razorback fan taking shots at the remaining players.  Where do we come up with this stuff?  Oh, I'm sure we'll complain when we lose, but that is what ALL fans do.  We wouldn't be fans if we didn't cheer for the wins and complain about losses.

For the record, Razorback fans have every right to be frustrated with the basketball program.  Our drought has been long - those with resources have contributed what they could to help the program.

No true fan will abandon the Hogs.  This isn't our first rodeo into adversity.

Good luck fellas. The great majority of Razorback fans are with you, and will continue to be.

No doubt.

[Thepigdoctor]

Yesterday was one of the worst days in Razorback basketball history. The "fans" who are saying they will no longer support Anderson, are in essence also saying they won't support the team he leads. The players left in the wake of this are all going to be given greater opportunity now, as at least two of these players were going to be major contributors next season (assuming they are gone). Yes players like Whitt and Dusty will be asked to do more, but where there is an opportunity, there is hope. Miles, Kuassi, and Thompson will be asked to do more with Kapita not coming and Williams potentially done.

While this is obviously a bad situation, I hope that the players still wearing Razorback jerseys will see the great opportunity that lies in front of them, and can capitalize on being given more responsibility.

Durham will likely replace Beard at the point and typically players out of the JUCO ranks make their biggest step forward in year two.

The entire team and coaching staff has now been backed into a corner and we're going to learn a hell of a lot about the remaining players next season. My hope is they fight like hell and surprise people who have already given up on them. Basketball remains a team game and this situation could be something that brings the players even closer as a unit.

I'm fully aware that next season could be a disaster but we've still got some talented players who'll be suiting up to represent the University of Arkansas, and these kids deserve our support.

[HotlantaHog]

Not one of the worst days in Arkansas basketball history. One of the worst days may have been the firing of Nolan, or the hiring of John Pelphrey ... or Dana Altman quitting ...

This is a setback and I still believe great things are in store for the Razorbacks in due time.

[WilsonHog]

I'm really sick of all the shots that we take as fans.  I cannot imagine a single Arkansas Razorback fan taking shots at the remaining players.  Where do we come up with this stuff?  Oh, I'm sure we'll complain when we lose, but that is what ALL fans do.  We wouldn't be fans if we didn't cheer for the wins and complain about losses.

Ah, but there is the rub.

How much license does being a fan give me?

Will it give me the right at some point next season to say that a player sucks, a player is horrible, a player isn't D-I worthy, a player is a waste of his scholarship?

Can I say those things and wrap myself in the warm blanket of "I'm a fan, and that's what we all do?"

Because I promise you that those statements will be made by some on this board.

Now, some might claim, "well, I just said that out of frustration. I'm a fan, remember? That stands for 'fanatic.'" We all say things we regret. So when you do, be man enough to come back to the board and make amends. "I said ______ was a waste of a scholarship. That crossed the line, and I apologize."

I've been an admin here since six weeks after Hogville was created. The next time that happens will be the first.   

[LA Football fan]

To me Beard is the only critical loss.   I loved Williams energy but his consistency was a problem.  I thought he improved his play last year though and maybe would have improved even more but his production can be easily replaced.  Thomas wasn't playing next year anyway so that won't affect anything. 

Beard is the true loss, especially since we lost Kevaughn in the recruiting war with Florida.  Point guard sets the table for the offense.  It is like losing your first string qb in football.  He will be hard to replace early in the season.  Hopefully someone will step up and take control by mid season.  I fully expect us to have a better season than many on here are predicting.   I don't expect them to have the success we had last season, especially on the road but I still think we could be a bubble team come March.  Really depends on how well someone steps into the point guard role.   I think our defense will be good enough to carry us for a while until our offense can catch up.  Bad day for sure, not a killer for the program or the season.

[TM Hog]

I really hope there is not a bad vibe on the hill right now about all of this. We have big football recruits up there. Hopefully, they will be somewhat shielded from this stuff.

[Breems]

I really hope there is not a bad vibe on the hill right now about all of this. We have big football recruits up there. Hopefully, they will be somewhat shielded from this stuff.

We aren't the first school to encounter this type of situation. Fortunately, this reflects badly on the individuals and not the school.

[Farrestor]

Nowhere else to go but up. Maybe this helps with recruiting a really good class next year for all the available PT we will have. Also fully expect Kapita to be back after a year and he will have 4 to play 4 and still be a Freshmen. We might all be surprised when Whitt picks up Beard's slack and durham is an ok true PG. I am worried about depth and our frontcourt but maybe an unknown will emerge from getting more PT.

[SexyBeast77]

We lost a 5.7 PPG Player (Beard) and a 4.8 PPG Player (Williams). If losing that makes your team fall apart, it shows that what this really highlights is Anderson's lack of recruiting better players and more depth.

[hogsanity]

3 things that come out of yesterday:

1.  Unless Mike gave them the phony money, he can not be held accountable for their actions. The legal process will determine alot of what he does with them going forward.

2. Kapita not coming is big, but again, can't be blamed on Mike.

3. If the worst case happens, and Beard and Williams are done, the roster is woefully thin, and there is no way to spin that.

The biggest question is what ramifications will this have in future seasons, does a poor 15/16 negatively impact recruiting, and I am not referring to Monk, but to recruiting in general.

As far as bashing players, that is just not needed. If the team is bad, it is pretty obvious the players are not up to the level of their competition. They may not be bad players, but as a group they may not get results. 

[pigture perfect]

I hereby affirm that I will cheer on the remaining hawgballers as I would have, if this incident had not occurred. Maybe more so. I will do this in spite of the fact that I didn't expect a great season in the first place and even less now. But I will cheer and love the team anyway. The kids that are doing it the right way deserve this.

[HoopS]

I've moved past feeling too much about the three players arrested yesterday. If they are innocent, I hope that will become known and they will be able to get on with their lives. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished accordingly.

This is very likely to be a rough ride. Even if the three players are able to work out a favorable deal, I can't imagine that anything less than having the charges dropped or being acquitted will ever allow them to represent the Razorbacks again.

My concern now, and moving forward, is with the players left in the wake of this mess, because they have a perspective I don't have. They've invested time representing our university and State, and will continue to do so. The team they were a part of yesterday morning doesn't look much like the one they will wake up to this morning. Some players will have to assume starting positions before they likely are ready to. New leaders will have to emerge. In the midst of all of that, some of the team's "fans" will abandon them. Even worse, some will stick around and take shots at the players who are trying to pick up the pieces, as if they are somehow to blame for any of this.
   
Good luck fellas. The great majority of Razorback fans are with you, and will continue to be.

number 2500 for your thoughts.

[ArkansasI]

Ah, but there is the rub.

How much license does being a fan give me?

Will it give me the right at some point next season to say that a player sucks, a player is horrible, a player isn't D-I worthy, a player is a waste of his scholarship?

Can I say those things and wrap myself in the warm blanket of "I'm a fan, and that's what we all do?"

Because I promise you that those statements will be made by some on this board.

Now, some might claim, "well, I just said that out of frustration. I'm a fan, remember? That stands for 'fanatic.'" We all say things we regret. So when you do, be man enough to come back to the board and make amends. "I said ______ was a waste of a scholarship. That crossed the line, and I apologize."

I've been an admin here since six weeks after Hogville was created. The next time that happens will be the first.   

This issue does not affect my right to complain about whether the remaining players on the team are worthy of their scholarships.  If they get a scholarship, then they are Division I players and ought to have some skills.  Their education is getting paid for the same as players more talented.

If they perform poorly, rest assured plenty of real Razorback fans will express their frustration with the abilities of the players.  Comes with the territory.

As fans, we discuss players all the time.  Being critical of a player is not a suggestion that we don't root for them to play well or to be successful.  If we make it personal, then I too have a problem with the comments.

[razoredge178]

MA didn't help himself much in that presser a few months back taking a shot at pelphrey and Heath talking about how he wasn't just bringing better on the court players, but off the court too. That could be the gift that'll keep giving I'm afraid.

[WilsonHog]

This issue does not affect my right to complain about whether the remaining players on the team are worthy of their scholarships.  If they get a scholarship, then they are Division I players and ought to have some skills.  Their education is getting paid for the same as players more talented.

If they perform poorly, rest assured plenty of real Razorback fans will express their frustration with the abilities of the players.  Comes with the territory.

As fans, we discuss players all the time.  Being critical of a player is not a suggestion that we don't root for them to play well or to be successful.  If we make it personal, then I too have a problem with the comments.

Language matters. Two examples, with the corresponding result, illustrate my point:

Example A: "Player A doesn't fight over the top of screens the way he has to at this level." Result: no problem. A well-stated observation.

Example B: "Player A is a horrible. We're wasting a scholarship on him." Result: Post is removed and poster is warned that bashing players is against Hogville rules and future occurrences will result in a ban.

Words are a very precise tool and should be used wisely.

[ArkansasI]

We agree.

[WarPig88]

3 things that come out of yesterday:

1.  Unless Mike gave them the phony money, he can not be held accountable for their actions. The legal process will determine alot of what he does with them going forward.

2. Kapita not coming is big, but again, can't be blamed on Mike.

3. If the worst case happens, and Beard and Williams are done, the roster is woefully thin, and there is no way to spin that.

The biggest question is what ramifications will this have in future seasons, does a poor 15/16 negatively impact recruiting, and I am not referring to Monk, but to recruiting in general.

As far as bashing players, that is just not needed. If the team is bad, it is pretty obvious the players are not up to the level of their competition. They may not be bad players, but as a group they may not get results.

I can't see where a poor season would help recruiting but the dynamics of recruiting have changed a lot over the past two decades.

These kids are being identified at a much younger age than previously and long term relationships built with them seem to supersede a one year dip or even spike in performance.

This year's class will be most influenced by the work or lack thereof the previous 4 seasons in developing relationships and ties to the kids we are after.

I also think that the people who think that this situation means that a total rebuild is in order aren't looking at the whole picture. Generally a "rebuild" involves establishing a culture for the new staff. That culture is established at this point with kids who are still here and is much more easily passed on to the new guys as a result.

I would call the next season or so more of a "reload" of talent than a rebuild of the program. 

[popcornhog]

I've moved past feeling too much about the three players arrested yesterday. If they are innocent, I hope that will become known and they will be able to get on with their lives. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished accordingly.

This is very likely to be a rough ride. Even if the three players are able to work out a favorable deal, I can't imagine that anything less than having the charges dropped or being acquitted will ever allow them to represent the Razorbacks again.

My concern now, and moving forward, is with the players left in the wake of this mess, because they have a perspective I don't have. They've invested time representing our university and State, and will continue to do so. The team they were a part of yesterday morning doesn't look much like the one they will wake up to this morning. Some players will have to assume starting positions before they likely are ready to. New leaders will have to emerge. In the midst of all of that, some of the team's "fans" will abandon them. Even worse, some will stick around and take shots at the players who are trying to pick up the pieces, as if they are somehow to blame for any of this.
   
Good luck fellas. The great majority of Razorback fans are with you, and will continue to be.

I'll support them all year no matter what. I'll attend games when I can, no matter what. But it's not going to be a fun year.

It'll be an interesting challenge for Mike and his staff. I'm not sure how exactly "success" should be measured this year. To me it's two-fold -- 1) Does the team get better as the year progresses; and 2) Recruitment.

[popcornhog]

We lost a 5.7 PPG Player (Beard) and a 4.8 PPG Player (Williams). If losing that makes your team fall apart, it shows that what this really highlights is Anderson's lack of recruiting better players and more depth.

Lol, talk about lack of context.

[Svrdhd]

Picking up the pieces before the accused are even arraigned could be likened to gathering stranded fish on the beach before the tsunami hits.
  I know the athletic department is all over this, hopefully we don't hear much else over the coming months.
 

[Kevin]

I don't understand how signing a player, who might not get eligible, is not the coaching staffs fault.

Young men doing stupid things and getting arrested, that is not on them.

[hogsanity]

I don't understand how signing a player, who might not get eligible, is not the coaching staffs fault.

Young men doing stupid things and getting arrested, that is not on them.

if they knew of the possible eligibility issue, and offered him anyway, that is on them. If it came up after the fact, not really their fault.

[Kevin]

if they knew of the possible eligibility issue, and offered him anyway, that is on them. If it came up after the fact, not really their fault.

Ok, I can go with that

Question, did the ncaa clearinghouse, clear him, then flag him or was he never cleared?

[hogsanity]

Ok, I can go with that

Question, did the ncaa clearinghouse, clear him, then flag him or was he never cleared?

No idea on that. From everything said by him or the staff, the day he signed the plan was for him to be here for the summer2 session. Then when that started and he was not on campus came the 1st hint something was amiss.

[Kevin]

No idea on that. From everything said by him or the staff, the day he signed the plan was for him to be here for the summer2 session. Then when that started and he was not on campus came the 1st hint something was amiss.

Then, that is the key question for me, will never get the answer, so it will be an unsolved mystery

[Oklahawg]

The picking up the pieces for me was recalibrating where we are.

We were going to struggle this year, in all likelihood, to make the NCAAT. 2015-6 was to be a transition year that eventually is another step forward in a gradual progression forward.

The concern going forward isn't 2015-6, really. The concern is if this is only the first of several bad headlines. What if players outside the hoops program are involved? What if ex-players, using access to players, are the "big fish"? How quickly can you remove the "big fish" shadow from the program?

The players are adults. They were around bad people it would appear. They were buying tobacco...for what reason?

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

 The arrest certainly hurt. But with the loss of Qualls and  portis  to the NBA and  Kapita  likely not being available we were already not going to make the tournament. Now our season record will be substantially worse,   But Mike will be able to sell early playing time to any new prospects. I would not worry quite as much with a great recruiting coach but Mike has not convinced me that he is one.

[nwahogfan1]

I know you cannot always hit 100% on recruiting but Mike needs to get more of those UNCOMMON players who want to go to college and get a degree or if talented enough go play a few years in the Pros.

[ricepig]

Ok, I can go with that

Question, did the ncaa clearinghouse, clear him, then flag him or was he never cleared?

They haven't ruled yet.

[DownTownHawg]

Well said Tom. I will support them during the highs and the lows. Go RAZORBACKS!

Me too .

Woo Pig

[HoopS]

3 things that come out of yesterday:

1.  Unless Mike gave them the phony money, he can not be held accountable for their actions. The legal process will determine alot of what he does with them going forward.

2. Kapita not coming is big, but again, can't be blamed on Mike.

3. If the worst case happens, and Beard and Williams are done, the roster is woefully thin, and there is no way to spin that.

The biggest question is what ramifications will this have in future seasons, does a poor 15/16 negatively impact recruiting, and I am not referring to Monk, but to recruiting in general.

As far as bashing players, that is just not needed. If the team is bad, it is pretty obvious the players are not up to the level of their competition. They may not be bad players, but as a group they may not get results. 

often on the other side of discussions, but I totally agree with this post.

[SouthSide Johnny]

Well crab cakes it wasn't about what they bought but rather the return on what was bought. Also

"three Razorbacks were seen in surveillance footage in July using the counterfeit $20 bills, according to an arrest report. Beard also asked a store clerk to exchange six counterfeit $50 bills for three $100 bills, and the clerk did so according to the report" over and done...

[WorfHog]

Well crab cakes it wasn't about what they bought but rather the return on what was bought.

"three Razorbacks were seen in surveillance footage in July using the counterfeit $20 bills, according to an arrest report. Beard also asked a store clerk to exchange six counterfeit $50 bills for three $100 bills, and the clerk did so according to the report" over and done...

I don't know anyone who has worked a register for more than a day that would do that.

[BigSexyHog]

It doesn't matter if these 3 are here are not.  92.7543456% of you guys claimed hog ball is back after last year so losing 3,4,5 or 7 players shouldn't matter at all cause we are BACK!!!! #WPS

By the way I don't know if they are guilty or innocent.   Not my job to know and would be wrong for me to say they are guilty.   

[Svrdhd]

They were buying tobacco...for what reason?

Have to admit I initially heard tobacco 'products' and assumed rolling paper, either one is really sad for a scholarship athlete at a major university program.

[mhuff]

I've moved past feeling too much about the three players arrested yesterday. If they are innocent, I hope that will become known and they will be able to get on with their lives. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished accordingly.

This is very likely to be a rough ride. Even if the three players are able to work out a favorable deal, I can't imagine that anything less than having the charges dropped or being acquitted will ever allow them to represent the Razorbacks again.

My concern now, and moving forward, is with the players left in the wake of this mess, because they have a perspective I don't have. They've invested time representing our university and State, and will continue to do so. The team they were a part of yesterday morning doesn't look much like the one they will wake up to this morning. Some players will have to assume starting positions before they likely are ready to. New leaders will have to emerge. In the midst of all of that, some of the team's "fans" will abandon them. Even worse, some will stick around and take shots at the players who are trying to pick up the pieces, as if they are somehow to blame for any of this.
   
Good luck fellas. The great majority of Razorback fans are with you, and will continue to be.

Well stated

[HF#1]

We'll be lucky to win 15 games.  It's get Monk or bust at this point.  Mike's mistake was waiting on Portis and Qualls. My opinion of course... 

Even if we get Monk, 2016/2017 would likely be just getting back to 20 wins.  Who knew life after Portis would be such a disaster.

[Karma]

Language matters. Two examples, with the corresponding result, illustrate my point:

Example A: "Player A doesn't fight over the top of screens the way he has to at this level." Result: no problem. A well-stated observation.

Example B: "Player A is a horrible. We're wasting a scholarship on him." Result: Post is removed and poster is warned that bashing players is against Hogville rules and future occurrences will result in a ban.

Words are a very precise tool and should be used wisely.

What about "Player A doesn't seem worthy of
Playing time?"

[SouthSide Johnny]

  Have to admit I initially heard tobacco 'products' and assumed rolling paper, either one is really sad for a scholarship athlete at a major university program.

Tobacco products was single cigar (blunts) products commonly by cash registers,

"All were caught on surveillance video passing counterfeit money at three area businesses,
according to the arrest report.  Beard is suspected of nine counts of first-degree forgery, while Thomas is suspected of two counts and Williams one, police say. First-degree forgery is a
Class B felony in Arkansas and can carry penalties of 5 to 20 years in prison and a maximum fine of $15,000 upon conviction. Police suspect the three of passing 13 bills at three area businesses on July 17-18. According to the arrest report, Beard exchanged six counterfeit $50 bills for three $100 bills and passed four counterfeit $20 bills while buying tobacco products and other merchandise.
Thomas passed two counterfeit $20 bills buying tobacco and merchandise, and Williams passed one counterfeit $20 for merchandise, the report states."
   

[Iwastherein1969]

We lost a 5.7 PPG Player (Beard) and a 4.8 PPG Player (Williams). If losing that makes your team fall apart, it shows that what this really highlights is Anderson's lack of recruiting better players and more depth.

the 5.57 guy is an experienced point guard, which every basketball of any count has to have....the PG position is what stirs the drink....the games where Beard had last year when he didn't turn the ball over and hit a few clutch shots were the conference road games we had not been winning up until Beard showed up. I cannot think of a single player on this roster we couldn't afford to lose more than Beard. This is not good, unless of course someone steps up and exceeds expectations.

[hogsanity]

  Who knew life after Portis would be such a disaster.

anyone who watched the games last year, and then looked at roster for this year should have known.  Portis and Qualls more often than not put last years team on their backs. When those two were not on the floor, more often than not, the offense stagnated.

Assuming the off season had gone perfectly, where was the offense going to come from next season?

[Soooie21]

When all said and done...The 3 will not be back on the team, no matter the outcome....

[Hawg Red]

When all said and done...The 3 will not be back on the team, no matter the outcome....

Why do you think that?

I think JaCorey Williams, and maybe even Dustin Thomas, have a really good chance of sticking around. Mainly JaCorey.

If what you're saying is true, and the outcome doesn't matter, they'd be dismissed RIGHT NOW.