Fayetteville's Byers gets Bama offer

[Vantage 8 dude]

When a signee is interviewed, what do we often hear them say?...."they got on me early and established a relationship"....Personally, I believe our staff gets "outworked"on recruiting...here we have a NWAR D-1 athlete and there are already 2 West teams that have offered....and this is one we know about...wanna know how other teams go outta state and get recruits, THEY GET ON THEM EARLY!!!!

So what you're apparently trying to say is that without an official offer a program still can't establish and build a relationship? Well it's very apparent that you know nothing of which you speak. Then again, that is totally nothing of note.

[Vantage 8 dude]

it has?  I think our recruiting class was not in the top 5 in the nation like Bama's... But if you say so!....Okay (lemming-like)

Actually Tom Lemming, a very well known and highly regarded recruiting expert, just rated the Hog's recruiting class very highly. Then again, you sly devil you cleverly worked that into this post.

[HogNDas]

So what you're apparently trying to say is that without an official offer a program still can't establish and build a relationship? Well it's very apparent that you know nothing of which you speak. Then again, that is totally nothing of note.

Sure they can, and no one knows who CBB & staff are "on", but from the only evidence we have, "offers", it appears we may be a little slower to act than some of our recruiting competitors...the #'s we can verify show we are "tardy to the dance".... EXPAND the offer list!...let's EVERYONE know we are a recruiting player!...Sure ain't gonna get any of them if you don't offer....

[CallThoseHawgs]

I think he gets it, he just doesn't agree that we should be LAST to offer a kid that plays 300 yds from our stadium and 5 other SEC teams have already offered...no one, short of being a pure sunshine pumper, would think that is wise....Let's go CBB!, make it happen.
I agree we'll probably get him, but don't agree we should wait on offering...simple!

Exactly. We saw how this worked out this past class with Chris Daniels, we waited and waited before we finally offered and even then a lot of us were convinced he was going to still be a razorback. But he chose a school that had offered earlier. I'm just hoping we don't make the same mistake here. If other SEC programs are willing to take a risk why can't we?

[luke hawg]

It doesn't take any work to look at film and make an offer knowing there is no consequence if you don't follow through. The Razorbacks are in a different position. Fayetteville has proved to be a recruiting pipeline for Arkansas. We can't offer a kid from Rummel, Fayetteville, NLR, or Colquit County and not see it through potentially risking the loss of future recruits. Other schools offer quickly, because there is no downside. How are some of you struggling to grasp this?

[ricepig]

Exactly. We saw how this worked out this past class with Chris Daniels, we waited and waited before we finally offered and even then a lot of us were convinced he was going to still be a razorback. But he chose a school that had offered earlier. I'm just hoping we don't make the same mistake here. If other SEC programs are willing to take a risk why can't we?

Because they aren't 300 yards from his high school???

[HogNDas]

STATS from SCOUT  "PROSPECTS"

AL      164
AR       37
Aub    111
FL       95
UGA    135
KY      133
LSU      83
OM      118
MSU    124
Mizzou  52
USCe    84
TN      164
aTm      44
Vandy   83

You decide if our staff is working hard.....I have to believe the "prospects" are the ones we are "on" and have a possible relationship with....I'm sure we may have some "secret" ones, but this is all we have to go by...

[Vantage 8 dude]

Sure they can, and no one knows who CBB & staff are "on", but from the only evidence we have, "offers", it appears we may be a little slower to act than some of our recruiting competitors...the #'s we can verify show we are "tardy to the dance".... EXPAND the offer list!...let's EVERYONE know we are a recruiting player!...Sure ain't gonna get any of them if you don't offer....

Well you just answered your previous concern. We can actually build a relationship with a kid without making an official, public offer. So let me get this straight: we can get to know the kid, talk with his coach and teachers, check him out in areas we find of great importance/concern, keep him apprised of developments, and ensure that he understands exactly what we're doing and why. And yet just by virtue of us not yet making an OFFICIAL and PUBLIC offer we don't stand a chance of still signing this kid? Sorry, but you really need to rethink this......

[HogNDas]

Well you just answered your previous concern. We can actually build a relationship with a kid without making an official, public offer. So let me get this straight: we can get to know the kid, talk with his coach and teachers, check him out in areas we find of great importance/concern, keep him apprised of developments, and ensure that he understands exactly what we're doing and why. And yet just by virtue of us not yet making an OFFICIAL and PUBLIC offer we don't stand a chance of still signing this kid? Sorry, but you really need to rethink this......

So you think that we have this whole "coup" of players we have relationships with but we're keeping it a secret?   Bahahahahaha....

[Vantage 8 dude]

So you think that we have this whole "coup" of players we have relationships with but we're keeping it a secret?   Bahahahahaha....

Well that's about as believable as the slock you're trying to sell. BTW you're ultimately arguing with yourself here. I'm NOT the one who backtracked his original rant to the contrary and admit that we can indeed investigate a kid and be in touch with him without offering. This isn't a one or the other deal....then again, deep down you know that.

Oh yeah, we happen to be talking about this one young man. That's what this particular thread's about. Who said anything about some "coup" of players? Totally out of left field.

[Wildhog]

I do agree that we don't send out near enough offers.

But we were talking about our in-state strategy, which has been successful to this point.

[HogNDas]

Well that's about as believable as the slock you're trying to sell. BTW you're ultimately arguing with yourself here. I'm NOT the one who backtracked his original rant to the contrary and admit that we can indeed investigate a kid and be in touch with him without offering. This isn't a one or the other deal....then again, deep down you know that.

Oh yeah, we happen to be talking about this one young man. That's what this particular thread's about. Who said anything about some "coup" of players? Totally out of left field.

Enjoy your posts!...gotta hit the hay! Good night & WPS!!!

[Vantage 8 dude]

Enjoy your posts!...gotta hit the hay! Good night & WPS!!!

Thank the gods! Now we can ALL get some rest. Oh yeah, nice way to duck out of a discussion  now that your head's being handed to you. 

[BoynamedWooPigSooie]

STATS from SCOUT  "PROSPECTS"

AL      164
AR       37
Aub    111
FL       95
UGA    135
KY      133
LSU      83
OM      118
MSU    124
Mizzou  52
USCe    84
TN      164
aTm      44
Vandy   83

You decide if our staff is working hard.....I have to believe the "prospects" are the ones we are "on" and have a possible relationship with....I'm sure we may have some "secret" ones, but this is all we have to go by...

Double the recruiting budget. Bielema bragged that he logged 20,000 flying miles in recruiting this past cycle. That really isn't much at all.  Stephens is always willing to loan a plane and get a nice tax deduction.  We're getting out-hustled no doubt and being in a talent deficient state there is no excuse to being outsmarted and outworked.  Add in our boosters not willing to play ball to get the recruits that have parents with their hands out, we are starting the race 10 steps behind the starting line.

We're an easy target and Bielema and company are thought of as weak by Muschamp, Smart, Gus, Saban, Odom, Miles, Freeze, etc.

[Darren DeLoach]

Some of you are either trolls, liars, naive, grossly ignorant, or conspiring agendas. Haven't seen this much nonsense in some time.

[ricepig]

STATS from SCOUT  "PROSPECTS"

AL      164
AR       37
Aub    111
FL       95
UGA    135
KY      133
LSU      83
OM      118
MSU    124
Mizzou  52
USCe    84
TN      164
aTm      44
Vandy   83

You decide if our staff is working hard.....I have to believe the "prospects" are the ones we are "on" and have a possible relationship with....I'm sure we may have some "secret" ones, but this is all we have to go by...

You have no idea how many offers we have out, and what kind of offers they are, much less any idea of our conference brethren. As usual, it took me less than :30 to find more offers than you listed, much less to have any inclination on our "prospects". Bielema doesn't throw out as many offers as other coaches, it isn't like it's anything new, although I could see it would to those who don't follow recruiting.

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

[870hogfan]

People are overreacting all over this thread...

[jjdlc]

Exactly. We saw how this worked out this past class with Chris Daniels, we waited and waited before we finally offered and even then a lot of us were convinced he was going to still be a razorback. But he chose a school that had offered earlier. I'm just hoping we don't make the same mistake here. If other SEC programs are willing to take a risk why can't we?

Texas offered less than a month before we did, so sorry, i don't think Daniels' decision had anything to do with getting an early offer.  I think people overestimated his interest in Arkansas.

[HogNDas]

You have no idea how many offers we have out, and what kind of offers they are, much less any idea of our conference brethren. As usual, it took me less than :30 to find more offers than you listed, much less to have any inclination on our "prospects". Bielema doesn't throw out as many offers as other coaches, it isn't like it's anything new, although I could see it would to those who don't follow recruiting.

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

Take it up with Scout....I didn't create those numbers....   Keep ignoring the obvious.

[MissippHog]

Some of you are either trolls, liars, naive, grossly ignorant, or conspiring agendas. Haven't seen this much nonsense in some time.

It's ridiculous.  My ignore list is getting longer by the day.

[HogNDas]

You have no idea how many offers we have out, and what kind of offers they are, much less any idea of our conference brethren. As usual, it took me less than :30 to find more offers than you listed, much less to have any inclination on our "prospects". Bielema doesn't throw out as many offers as other coaches, it isn't like it's anything new, although I could see it would to those who don't follow recruiting.

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

OK, different website, same scenario (247 Sports)
AL         144
AR          47
Aub       123
FL          120
UGA       122
KY          226
LSU         99
OM         122
MSU        115
Mizzou      60
USCe       125
TN           206
aTm          58
Vandy      117

it is what it is!   

[HogNDas]

It's ridiculous.  My ignore list is getting longer by the day.

stick your head in the sand.... you'll emerge when the situation becomes dire....  #9 in SEC will not win the West much less a NC

[jjdlc]

Take it up with Scout....I didn't create those numbers....   Keep ignoring the obvious.

His point is, you used Scout, which has been proven time and time again to be the least accurate of the recruiting services.  Secondly, this time of year, the offer #s of any of the recruiting services are highly inaccurate.  Kids claim to have offers they don't really have, some kids don't report offers they do have, and no one has the time to really verify any of it.  You are correct in saying our staff doesn't throw out as many offers as other staffs, that isn't news, it's a well known fact.  Unlike you however, most don't have a problem with it.  Our staff is more selective, and don't offer kids who are likely to cause problems, and/or not work out.  Look at the retention numbers of this staff vs. past staffs.  There is a nice thread on it right here in the recruiting section.

[HogNDas]

His point is, you used Scout, which has been proven time and time again to be the least accurate of the recruiting services.  Secondly, this time of year, the offer #s of any of the recruiting services are highly inaccurate.  Kids claim to have offers they don't really have, some kids don't report offers they do have, and no one has the time to really verify any of it.  You are correct in saying our staff doesn't throw out as many offers as other staffs, that isn't news, it's a well known fact.  Unlike you however, most don't have a problem with it.  Our staff is more selective, and don't offer kids who are likely to cause problems, and/or not work out.  Look at the retention numbers of this staff vs. past staffs.  There is a nice thread on it right here in the recruiting section.

Sounds good!...I'll keep telling myself that.. I'm serious, I will, but I sure hope you are right! 
Retention level?  Are you referring to players or staff?

[jjdlc]

Sounds good!...I'll keep telling myself that.. I'm serious, I will, but I sure hope you are right! 
Retention level?  Are you referring to players or staff?

Players, why would I be talking about staff?

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Highlights observed in Recruiting for Dummies:

1.) People that follow CFB recruiting closely don't cite Scout. Ever. They suck at it.
2.) The damn walk-on program does not reduce the number of scholarships available.
3.) The damn walk-on program does not determine who receives a scholarship.
4.) The damn walk-on program provides late bloomers, the overlooked and the injured an avenue to EARN a scholarship.   

Continue the idiocy.

[Darren DeLoach]

stick your head in the sand.... you'll emerge when the situation becomes dire....  #9 in SEC will not win the West much less a NC

Let's get a few things straight.

First, you know no more than anyone here.

Second, you know considerably less than a few notable posters here.

Third, we all know that the University of Arkansas has NEVER recruited at a high level, if the services are the sole barometer.

Fourth, You are not revealing anything; you are stirring the pot.

Fifth, the recruiting rankings are VERY subjective once you get beyond the top 100 or so players in the country. EVERYONE knows the top players. Those kids sign with programs with higher visibility, greater success, or closer proximity than Arkansas. So to be truly successful at Arkansas for an extended amount of time, it takes a very meticulous and precise evaluation that puts emphasis on developing those raw skills or physical liabilities. Once this system is in place and you begin to win, then you will see the higher tier recruits sign with the Hogs.

Sixth, we can not afford to offer every kid that may fit the above mentioned evals. Because, if we grade them out and they are not what we are looking for, we must rescind the offer. WE ARE NOT ALABAMA OR LSU THAT HAS A LINE OF HIGH END RECRUITS WAITING TO SIGN. We have to maintain healthy relationships in state, as well as nurture pipelines out of state. The staff is clearly building relationships and doing their homework on all of our instate possibilities, just because they don't let you know what they are doing, does not mean they are being outworked. And frankly, they don't owe you or our competitors or the recruiting services any information on their recruiting targets.

All of this is pretty common knowledge,(you may not agree with the method, but that is a different argument) and you should know all of it. But somehow I doubt information or knowledge will help in your case....so I wasted my time. But I feel better....

[Doug]

Doug, I don't envy you in this thread at all.

Since the clean up, the thread's been awesome... so I'm rather pleased by that.

Funnily enough, I received a notification that Country Stylz tagged me in some tweets. Rather foul mouthed tweets, too (but nothing that offended me). I actually laughed at them. And then the WINNAR followed me.

I should blow his mind and follow him back, then sub-tweet him all day today.

(Nah, not gonna do either, but it would still be funny. )

[WooPig90]

QUESTION:  Why would we NOT offer???  Seems to be working for Bama!

READ. Its that simple. What do you not get about what multiple posters have been saying as to why he hasnt gotten offered yet

[RazorPiggie]

Exactly. We saw how this worked out this past class with Chris Daniels, we waited and waited before we finally offered and even then a lot of us were convinced he was going to still be a razorback. But he chose a school that had offered earlier. I'm just hoping we don't make the same mistake here. If other SEC programs are willing to take a risk why can't we?

You do realize Texas, you know the school he signed with, didn't offer until December 17th.

[RazorPiggie]

OK, different website, same scenario (247 Sports)
AL         144
AR          47
Aub       123
FL          120
UGA       122
KY          226
LSU         99
OM         122
MSU        115
Mizzou      60
USCe       125
TN           206
aTm          58
Vandy      117

it is what it is!   

And I like the way we do it.

[Deep Shoat]

Let's get a few things straight.

First, you know no more than anyone here.

Second, you know considerably less than a few notable posters here.

Third, we all know that the University of Arkansas has NEVER recruited at a high level, if the services are the sole barometer.

Fourth, You are not revealing anything; you are stirring the pot.

Fifth, the recruiting rankings are VERY subjective once you get beyond the top 100 or so players in the country. EVERYONE knows the top players. Those kids sign with programs with higher visibility, greater success, or closer proximity than Arkansas. So to be truly successful at Arkansas for an extended amount of time, it takes a very meticulous and precise evaluation that puts emphasis on developing those raw skills or physical liabilities. Once this system is in place and you begin to win, then you will see the higher tier recruits sign with the Hogs.

Sixth, we can not afford to offer every kid that may fit the above mentioned evals. Because, if we grade them out and they are not what we are looking for, we must rescind the offer. WE ARE NOT ALABAMA OR LSU THAT HAS A LINE OF HIGH END RECRUITS WAITING TO SIGN. We have to maintain healthy relationships in state, as well as nurture pipelines out of state. The staff is clearly building relationships and doing their homework on all of our instate possibilities, just because they don't let you know what they are doing, does not mean they are being outworked. And frankly, they don't owe you or our competitors or the recruiting services any information on their recruiting targets.

All of this is pretty common knowledge,(you may not agree with the method, but that is a different argument) and you should know all of it. But somehow I doubt information or knowledge will help in your case....so I wasted my time. But I feel better....

/ thread

[ricepig]

Take it up with Scout....I didn't create those numbers....   Keep ignoring the obvious.

No, that's on you for using Scout, or for that fact, any recruiting service to drive your recruiting decisions. If you can't see the fallacy in them, then I can't help you.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

I don't have a real issue waiting on Byers although I would think that he would get an offer VERY soon.  He has to be one of the first instate '17 kids that they're evaluating.  But on the overall number of offers we put out there, maybe that's something that is worth being discussed.  It seems we had a very narrow '16 target list and were left holding the bag when they didn't pan out.  I would think you might have less of a drop off from your #1 target to who you actually end up with if you are recruiting/offering a few more kids earlier in the process.  But hey, who knows really

[Wildhog]

I don't have a real issue waiting on Byers although I would think that he would get an offer VERY soon.  He has to be one of the first instate '17 kids that they're evaluating.  But on the overall number of offers we put out there, maybe that's something that is worth being discussed.  It seems we had a very narrow '16 target list and were left holding the bag when they didn't pan out.  I would think you might have less of a drop off from your #1 target to who you actually end up with if you are recruiting/offering a few more kids earlier in the process.  But hey, who knows really

You're exactly right. 

[Vantage 8 dude]

People are overreacting all over this thread...

Think so? Unfortunately the fact that a fairly good authority of Hog recruiting, one Mr. Richard Davenport, mentioned in today's ARDEMGAZ that CBB and staff have been in contact with Byers and are evaluating will do absolutely NOTHING to curb the critics and general malcontents from worrying that this still isn't good enough. However, no doubt some will accuse Richard of having no knowledge of what he speaks.

[oldhawg]

We're an easy target and Bielema and company are thought of as weak by Muschamp, Smart, Gus, Saban, Odom, Miles, Freeze, etc.
[/quote]


Guess I missed that article.  Where did you say you read or heard the interviews with these coaches?

[Vantage 8 dude]

We're an easy target and Bielema and company are thought of as weak by Muschamp, Smart, Gus, Saban, Odom, Miles, Freeze, etc.



Guess I missed that article.  Where did you say you read or heard the interviews with these coaches?

I agree with you. I'd sure like to see that particular article myself. Then again, it couldn't possibly be something completely made up in the mind of a troll could it? Nah, that'd be impossible on HV.

[oldhawg]

To simplify, seems to me that there are a couple of strategies:

1.  Build relationships with recruits you want, and then offer them when you know they can qualify and all other ducks are in order.

2.  Offer early, then build relationships.  Later on, cull out the ones you don't want or aren't going to qualify, or string them along while they go to a Junior College in order to qualify later ---- and hope they still want to attend your school.

In the grand scheme of things, not sure which is the better strategy, maybe different for different programs.

[bigdaddyhawg]

And I like the way we do it.

I don't give a crap how they do it, I just want good kids, good students who are great athletes to come play winning, championship football for the UA.

Truth is, no matter what strategy is employed at the UA, recruiting will always be an uphill fight, and we're not ever going to break into the realm of Bama, USCW, Ohio St., OU, Florida.  We simply don't have the recruiting base to ever be able to do that.

I know many struggle against that reality, but it's not going to change.

[HogNDas]

To simplify, seems to me that there are a couple of strategies:

1.  Build relationships with recruits you want, and then offer them when you know they can qualify and all other ducks are in order.

2.  Offer early, then build relationships.  Later on, cull out the ones you don't want or aren't going to qualify, or string them along while they go to a Junior College in order to qualify later ---- and hope they still want to attend your school.

In the grand scheme of things, not sure which is the better strategy, maybe different for different programs.

I agree with this post....seems Bama offers early and then culls....

[Darren DeLoach]

I agree with this post....seems Bama offers early and then culls....

You just don't get it do you.....

[lumphog]

You just don't get it do you.....

Calm down DD......remember where you are & who you're dealin with  #GodBless

[mountainhog]

RD is my hero, that is all.  He just so happens to have a birthday coming up on Monday as well.  So Happy EARLY Birthday RD.  I share my bday with a Razorback news legend.  WPS! :razorback:

RD is my hero, that is all.  He just so happens to have a birthday coming up on Monday as well.  So Happy EARLY Birthday RD.  I share my bday with a Razorback news legend.  WPS! :razorback:

RD is my hero, that is all.  He just so happens to have a birthday coming up on Monday as well.  So Happy EARLY Birthday RD.  I share my bday with a Razorback news legend.  WPS! :razorback:

Happy birthday RD,  thanks for all the work you do.  (my birthday too)

[ricepig]

You're exactly right. 

So, say you are holding out for the last 4 guys we were on, and you are also recruiting guys for the same position that are not to their quality, do you hold off until the few days before signing date on the second group? Also, guys in that second group know they need to find a home, unlike the first group who will find a spot anywhere, what's your play?

[oldhawg]

So, say you are holding out for the last 4 guys we were on, and you are also recruiting guys for the same position that are not to their quality, do you hold off until the few days before signing date on the second group? Also, guys in that second group know they need to find a home, unlike the first group who will find a spot anywhere, what's your play?

Depends upon what kind of feedback you are getting from the recruits.

With positive feedback ---- I'd roll the dice and hold out for them.

[ricepig]

Depends upon what kind of feedback you are getting from the recruits.

With positive feedback ---- I'd roll the dice and hold out for them.

Yeah, I'm glad my livelihood doesn't depend on recruiting high school Sr's to work for me.

[Grizzlyfan]

Glad to hear that you for a absolute fact that the walk ons are nothing but live tackling dummies....something that you should apparently be familiar with....the dummy part anyway.

Ouch, I'm wounded

You guys do understand that if you offer a grade risk and he doesn't make the grades the offer is meaningless, right?  It doesn't cost you anything to be aggressive with a kid down the street.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Ouch, I'm wounded

You guys do understand that if you offer a grade risk and he doesn't make the grades the offer is meaningless, right?  It doesn't cost you anything to be aggressive with a kid down the street.

It's not meaningless. Say the kid qualifies by the skin of his teeth and signs. Odds are you've now got a future academic casualty on your hands.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Think so? Unfortunately the fact that a fairly good authority of Hog recruiting, one Mr. Richard Davenport, mentioned in today's ARDEMGAZ that CBB and staff have been in contact with Byers and are evaluating will do absolutely NOTHING to curb the critics and general malcontents from worrying that this still isn't good enough. However, no doubt some will accuse Richard of having no knowledge of what he speaks.

I'd be willing to bet that literally no one will do this.  It would be interesting to know what they're still evaluating about the young man.  But I'm sure he will get his offer and it will come soon