Latest on LTT

[Oklahawg]

Can he leave the state while on probation?

I would assume he can because of all the talk about where he is going.

He has visited schools, so yes. That should also be a sign - he had to get clearance to travel (I presume) and that means a hint of responsibility. Plus, the courts said it was fine.

[Hoggish1]

You really want to compare this to peeing in the bushes?? Seriously?? The guy admitted to being drunk and high and filmed himself having sex with the girl without her consent, THEN he sent the video to another device(s). With the emergence of social media, this is more than "stuff we used to do in high school." People have committed suicide when these type of videos have gotten out.

Right, but we did not have these devices in HS.  We had vices but not these devices...

[Wildhog]

Seems to go against the #uncommon mantra. 

But we need tackles, and I don't really care where they come from.

[HawgHeadCheese]

Bingo.

The report I saw actually said he sent it to his own phone. I went to college as a lot of you guys probably did and this stuff happens all the time. I don't think he's a bad person. The crazy thing about all this is the article I read both of them said they were intoxicated and didn't remember what happened. So the girl could've gave him consent and didn't remember. Who knows.

[ifghog]

Yeah in today's world this just doesn't seem like that big of a deal...unless of course there is more to the story...

[Polecat]

I wonder how many of you guys have watched porn today...

troof

[The NewEra]

I didn't do the same thing, but I've done stuff just as stupid and immature when I was his age.  I was truly remorseful afterward and thank goodness there were strong mentoring adults that recognized my sincere regret and allowed me a second chance.  Learning from my mistakes, paying a price for them and strong mentoring was crucial in my future growth.  If our leaders of the football program believe we can make this young man a better person by allowing him a second chance, under their guidance and that he's truly remorseful then I back them 100% in making that call.  There is no guarantee he will live up to his end of the bargain, but it's guaranteed that without a second chance he won't have an opportunity to do so.

[greenie]

I can see deciding to take him or not to take him.  It all depends on how the young man owns up to it and is responding.  CBB is responsible for making that call (if he hasn't already).  Everyone deserves the opportunity to earn a second chance, and CBB has to decide if LTT is in the "earning" mindset, rather than an "excuses" mindset.  JMHO.

Good men have come back from much worse.

[Uncommon]

I think we'll take him.  Was a big mistake but it's worthy of a second chance.  Not like he sexually assaulted her or anything. (cough) (cough) (Baylor)

[Vantage 8 dude]

It will be interesting now that things have been decided to see how this whole thing plays out. I honestly can't tell exactly what CBB's attitude/approach might be under the circumstances.

[pondwater jack]

if we take him, he counts agin the 25 or just the 85?

[colbs]

if we take him, he counts agin the 25 or just the 85?

I don't think so, just the 85 total.

[jgphillips3]

Conviction or no conviction, it's not like we didn't know what happened.  I don't think we would have even spoken to him if it was contingent on there being no conviction.  I'm sure our evaluation assumed he was guilty and has more to do with how he handles himself currently than what he did.  Admittedly, he will be on a short leash if he comes here. 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Common sense says the staff was well aware of the circumstances...I doubt yesterday's court proceedings shed any new light. 

I'm sure this will just be an issue of timing.  If LTT wants to be in Fayetteville, can he be cleared to be on campus when the team wants him on campus?  Or will the sentence produce more burdens than the staff wants to mess with.

[WooPig90]

if we take him, he counts agin the 25 or just the 85?

85

[scruf]

I'm fairly conservative and I think this kid deserves a second chance. We all do.

[Wildhog]

I'm fairly conservative and I think this kid deserves a second chance. We all do.

I wonder if we'd be taking a chance on this guy if we didn't have such a need at OT?

[Grizzlyfan]

If she knew, this wouldn't have been a crime.

If she knew but claimed she didn't it could be a crime couldn't it.

Let me rephrase.  It could be charged as a crime.

[Veritas Arkansas]

If she knew but claimed she didn't it could be a crime couldn't it.

Let me rephrase.  It could be charged as a crime.

He pled guilty to it.

These are no longer allegations.

[nationwish]

He pled guilty to it.

These are no longer allegations.

I saw a headline a little while back talking about how the number of people in American prisons who have faced trial is actually really small, and one of the biggest reasons is because of people who plead guilty. Obviously, a high percentage of people who plead guilty actually are guilty, but it was saying that there were also many who would say they were innocent afterwards, but the risk of losing in a trial was much worse than the sentence through accepting a plea bargain. I believe there have also been quite a few cases of people who did plead guilty who were later exonerated through other evidence that was later released.

Having said all that, it does seem that he committed a crime, and the fact that he entered a guilty plea would seem to be an admission to the fact. However, there are times when a guilty plea is not an actual admission of guilt, but a judgment call for a person on the best way to move forward at that point.

[gmarv]

the kid made a mistake ,can you as the coach tell if he is the type who learns from mistakes or not. korliss marshall is an example of a seemingly good kid who just couldn,t learn from his.cbb has to decide whether he is worth the risk or not.
I,m of the thought that cbb is really pretty good at this judging character thing so I,ll be fine with whatever he decides.(and I just know he,ll be tweeting me later for my opine)

[Veritas Arkansas]

I saw a headline a little while back talking about how the number of people in American prisons who have faced trial is actually really small, and one of the biggest reasons is because of people who plead guilty. Obviously, a high percentage of people who plead guilty actually are guilty, but it was saying that there were also many who would say they were innocent afterwards, but the risk of losing in a trial was much worse than the sentence through accepting a plea bargain. I believe there have also been quite a few cases of people who did plead guilty who were later exonerated through other evidence that was later released.

Having said all that, it does seem that he committed a crime, and the fact that he entered a guilty plea would seem to be an admission to the fact. However, there are times when a guilty plea is not an actual admission of guilt, but a judgment call for a person on the best way to move forward at that point.

If someone pleads guilty to a crime and didn't commit it, then they've committed perjury.

By law, a plea of guilty is an actual admission of guilt.

[ricepig]

I wonder if we'd be taking a chance on this guy if we didn't have such a need at OT?

The need for an OT definitely plays into it, had we signed Bolles and Diesch, we don't answer the phone, or initiate contact.

[Smokehouse]

Our legal system can be fairly capricious when it comes to felony charges, especially with young black males.

There are not a lot of details available in the reports on this case, so there's a lot to consider. A lot of cases like this get started at the university level (because they're worried about Title IX charges) and then handed over to the police, instead of immediately going to the police. I'm hesitant in general to trust a defendant is getting a fair shake in this sequence of events, especially as more universities ingrain the "ongoing and enthusiastic" interpretation of consent in their sexual conduct policies, which hold that someone may verbally give consent, then never verbally recant the consent, but a second party can still be guilty of committing an act without consent if the first party didn't reaffirm it during the act. It's a very confusing way to determine what "consent" is that's especially murky when alcohol is involved and potentially damages a presumption of innocence in an investigation. The police won't necessarily follow this definition of consent, but they'll likely be influenced by the collegiate investigation that precedes the involvement of police. We know LTT was blackout drunk (or at least he claims) at the time. If, say, she was also blackout drunk, gave consent to film to an equally drunk LTT, then the next day neither remembers how the filming started, the system is inclined to both assume LTT is a guilty party in that exchange, and pressure him into pleading guilty because it's almost impossible to prove that she did give consent at some point, and not pleading guilty can harm his chances to plead his charges down. Alternatively, maybe he's just lying about being drunk at all and he intentionally mislead her and set the phone up on a dresser, knowingly without her consent, and intended to share it with his friends all along.

All of that is just to say that sexual encounters in college, where most participants are immature and exploring sex and consent in general, are already confusing, and then when alcohol becomes involved it creates a really gray area that doesn't really fit nicely into a media and internet driven society that makes snap judgments and then flies full speed ahead. This is not to excuse people who cross an obvious line (drugging someone's drink, etc.), but there's a huge gray area that's often ignored in our online moral outrages.

I'll trust that CBB is going to take full measure of LTT and decide on a couple of things - whether there is ample evidence that LTT acted in a way that was egregious enough that he doesn't deserve a second chance, or if there is at least some doubt that the incident falls on the lesser end of a spectrum of possibilities; and whether LTT is appropriately humbled and repentant about the issue and willing to work twice as hard moving forward to make amends for it. I assume our needs for tackles probably have led CBB to take a look at LTT when he may not otherwise have, but I also assume that this need won't ultimately lead to CBB lowering the bar on what he wants in a recruit. He'll get a closer look at all the evidence than any of us and decide whether it is as bad as it could potentially look, or if this is more of a gray area.

[Smokehouse]

By law, a plea of guilty is an actual admission of guilt.

In reality, a plea of guilty is often the best way to get out of a crap situation.

But this is going to veer way off topic.

[Cinco de Hogo]

In reality, a plea of guilty is often the best way to get out of a crap situation.

But this is going to veer way off topic.

It's my opinion that a guilty plea is only made if you are in fact guilty but you are unsure if your lawyer can get you off.  Your lawyer himself will help you decide what is best.  I believe the number of cases were this isn't true would be astronomical small.

Or your just dumb and take a fall for reasons of your own.

[hawginbigd1]

Just how many in this thread have said we shouldn't take him?

5 before my posts, next time you count em, and there were a couple that insinuated that CBB would pass.

[Wildhog]

The need for an OT definitely plays into it, had we signed Bolles and Diesch, we don't answer the phone, or initiate contact.

It just makes the whole #uncommon thing ring a little hollow, IMO. 

[ricepig]

It just makes the whole #uncommon thing ring a little hollow, IMO. 

Umm, maybe, we wouldn't be interested if he was a choir boy if we had signed the previously mentioned.

[Cinco de Hogo]

5 before my posts, next time you count em, and there were a couple that insinuated that CBB would pass.

Look this is NOT a situation to get mad about another persons opinion.  A few wouldn't take him, I can respect that.  But the vast majority have said take him or leave it up to CBB.  That's not bad at all for Hogville.  LOL

[scruf]

I wonder if we'd be taking a chance on this guy if we didn't have such a need at OT?

True. Or if he wasn't so talented as well. Not many people will go out on a limb for a kid who doesn't have the potential to be a difference-maker on the field.

If Greg Hardy was a punter he'd probably be unemployed. And in prison.

[Wildhog]

Umm, maybe, we wouldn't be interested if he was a choir boy if we had signed the previously mentioned.

Sure, but either you have your principles or you don't. I have no problem whatsoever taking him, but I'm more of a "win at all costs" kinda guy.

It seems CBB only believes the #uncommon mantra when it suits him.  Just my opinion, and it's FINE by me.  This is the SEC, after all.  Now let me go get my helmet.

[ricepig]

Sure, but either you have your principles or you don't. I have no problem whatsoever taking him, but I'm more of a "win at all costs" kinda guy.

It seems CBB only believes the #uncommon mantra when it suits him.  Just my opinion, and it's FINE by me.  This is the SEC, after all.  Now let me go get my helmet.

#Uncommon is for guys that choose us, seems pretty simple........

[Wildhog]

#Uncommon is for guys that choose us, seems pretty simple........

haha

[Cinco de Hogo]

#Uncommon is for guys that choose us, seems pretty simple........

Uncommon observation!

[Smokehouse]

It's my opinion that a guilty plea is only made if you are in fact guilty but you are unsure if your lawyer can get you off.  Your lawyer himself will help you decide what is best.  I believe the number of cases were this isn't true would be astronomical small.

Or your just dumb and take a fall for reasons of your own.

Depends on how you define "astronomically small." There's a growing number of cases where people are being exonerated by DNA or other new evidence who are in jail after initially pleading guilty. The plea bargain system often coerces people into a situation where a guilty plea is a better deal for them than a trial, because it is difficult to prove innocence (a common occurrence when consent is involved, since most people don't sign paperwork before sex) and the potential downside of losing a trial is much larger than the plea, or because you can't meet bail and will be in jail for months pre-trial and during the trial, or because you have no resources and don't trust a court-appointed attorney to win a trial, or for any other number of reasons.

Just to use this case as a hypothetical; say LTT thinks that he's completely innocent, but he has a plea deal that lets him serve community service and part of the deal says he's allowed to leave the state and play football at another school. He can take that deal and do the time while playing football, or plead innocent and fight it, during which time no school is going to put him on their football team, even if the NCAA were to allow him to play. It also brings a lot more public attention to his case and creates a PR issue that could, in the future, prevent him from getting a shot in the NFL. Even if he's totally innocent, there's strong incentives there to just take the plea deal and get on with his life.

[jjdlc]

Sure, but either you have your principles or you don't. I have no problem whatsoever taking him, but I'm more of a "win at all costs" kinda guy.

It seems CBB only believes the #uncommon mantra when it suits him.  Just my opinion, and it's FINE by me.  This is the SEC, after all.  Now let me go get my helmet.

I get where your coming from, but even uncommon people make dumb mistakes sometimes.  The way I see it, if CBB has met with the kid, and is convinced that he is serious about putting the mistakes of his past behind him, then that is good enough for me.

[Deep Shoat]

It just makes the whole #uncommon thing ring a little hollow, IMO.

No, it doesn't.

#Uncommon doesn't mean never made a mistake.  It means men who own up to their mistakes and work to make sure it never happens again.

Notice, those who screw up don't get gone immediately.  They get multiple chances to get it right.  Most still end up gone.  That is #Common...

[hogfan870]

He recorded it with her phone.  Got to think he at least thought she was ok with it. 

I am probably jaded by the fact that I think we need tackles.  But with the amount of work that this guy has to do to graduate, I don't have much confidence he will get here even if we take him in spite of the legal stuff. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

Depends on how you define "astronomically small." There's a growing number of cases where people are being exonerated by DNA or other new evidence who are in jail after initially pleading guilty. The plea bargain system often coerces people into a situation where a guilty plea is a better deal for them than a trial, because it is difficult to prove innocence (a common occurrence when consent is involved, since most people don't sign paperwork before sex) and the potential downside of losing a trial is much larger than the plea, or because you can't meet bail and will be in jail for months pre-trial and during the trial, or because you have no resources and don't trust a court-appointed attorney to win a trial, or for any other number of reasons.

Just to use this case as a hypothetical; say LTT thinks that he's completely innocent, but he has a plea deal that lets him serve community service and part of the deal says he's allowed to leave the state and play football at another school. He can take that deal and do the time while playing football, or plead innocent and fight it, during which time no school is going to put him on their football team, even if the NCAA were to allow him to play. It also brings a lot more public attention to his case and creates a PR issue that could, in the future, prevent him from getting a shot in the NFL. Even if he's totally innocent, there's strong incentives there to just take the plea deal and get on with his life.

I understand were you are coming from but take this case, the act was in fact filmed and transferred to another device.  Both acts would need approval so he is guilty unless he can prove approval was given.  It's not a case were you have to be proven guilty, in reverse you have to prove innocence.  As you said that is hard to do in these cases even without being drunk.  What I'm saying is this isn't like being charged with murder when you know you were in another state when it happened.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Sure, but either you have your principles or you don't. I have no problem whatsoever taking him, but I'm more of a "win at all costs" kinda guy.

It seems CBB only believes the #uncommon mantra when it suits him.  Just my opinion, and it's FINE by me.  This is the SEC, after all.  Now let me go get my helmet.

I'm curious about your opinion concerning "CBB only believes in the #uncommon mantra when it suits him". Please cite several instances where that's come into play and he's not followed through. While I full admit my memory isn't what it used to be, I'm having extreme difficulty coming up with situations that would prove your allegation.

BTW if you're referring to Ramsey, and I'm not saying your are, then you need to go back and check the facts. In that case CBB would not allow him back on the team with any type of financial assistance. He IS, however, allowing him to come back as a walk-on with no promises attached to see if he can prove that he's learned and grown from his mistakes. Again, from my understanding though the young man still hasn't been assured of anything.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Sure, but either you have your principles or you don't. I have no problem whatsoever taking him, but I'm more of a "win at all costs" kinda guy.

It seems CBB only believes the #uncommon mantra when it suits him.  Just my opinion, and it's FINE by me.  This is the SEC, after all.  Now let me go get my helmet.

#Uncommon is for guys that choose us, seems pretty simple........

Yep, the uncommon thing is over done here. 

[rljjr]

Michigan folks seem to think he's going to be sentenced under the Holmes Youthful Trainee Act linked here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(dk2vqwllqoylgcjsatxlnlwm))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-762-11

Apparently that's a good thing for him, since he was facing 7 years on one count alone.
Not sure how his victim feels about all this. I certainly hope she is able to put this behind her.

[ricepig]

TMI man... TMI. Keep your private darn private.

Maybe it's just for Lent?

[The_Hog_Father]

Maybe it's just for Lent?

Hahaha... Whatever it is it's not something I want to read about while discussing OLM.

This isn't Dutch Rudder Anonomous... And I could give a darn about him, his wife or his belief system. Nobody cares. 🙈😂

[presidenthog]

If she knew, this wouldn't have been a crime.

she knew dude. she got mad when he sent it to someone else, or to himself and she then lied about not knowing.


if you truly believe she didn't know then you are absurdly naive. people lie.

[donk]

It's a felony. I hope we are not this desperate.

[WaltonCollege]

TMI man... TMI. Keep your private darn private.

Haha no joke, schools in session.

[Country Stylz]

I don't really see how CBB could even consider bringing this guy in after the "you recruit your own problems" comments. If you wouldn't recruit a player because their twitter handle disgusts you, how could you bring in somebody that would do something like this? And his excuse is that he was drunk? I just don't see us taking this guy.

But what if the girl was really, really good looking? At least he didn't have her chained up in his basement.

[Country Stylz]

she knew dude. she got mad when he sent it to someone else, or to himself and she then lied about not knowing.


if you truly believe she didn't know then you are absurdly naive. people lie.

News flash about women you guys. They lie their ass off.