Retention by year

[scruf]

If they played for Bielema, how can the fact they weren't retained be blamed on Petrino?

Most of those mentioned in the 2010-2012 classes were gone before CBB got to campus. A few weren't. Austin Flynn had legal troubles in the spring of 2013 and got the boot. That's an example of the previous staff recruiting problems for the current staff.

[scruf]

I have no clue and just making an assumption.    if your criteria for signing someone eliminates attitude problems, grade risks,  injury prone and whatever else factors that can determine down the road problems your offer list is going to be smaller because your offer criteria is higher.   

Ah...makes perfect sense.

[scruf]

Hogville is always good for a laugh.. Petrino would have won with whatever he had. And most of the departures occured due to the fact that Petrino left. Some of you guys should be doing stand up comedy.

Nobody would've/could've won with the 2012 and 2013 teams. Cupboard was bare. Zero depth. The 2012 had more talent, but no depth, and they quit on each other as the season went on. Shameful.

[scruf]

Come on Scruff you are one of my favorite posters. But this is nonsense. Are you butthurt that bad still ? Guys left bc Bobby was no longer here. He would have done fine. Maybe even won it all had it not been for the wreck. I'm a Hog fan not a fan of any one coach fyi... But other than the wreck and all that mess Bobby did good for us.

Oh yeah, other than three terrible recruiting classes in a row he was a saint. The 2012 and 2013 teams were doomed to fail because of Petrino's off the field pursuits. He did a great job of recruiting a side chick and that's about it. Sorry if you're blinded by 21-5 in two years but he had already started resting on his laurels prior to the crash.

[scruf]

Just curious why you classify this as Pre-CBB, all of these played for him, was Nate Holmes dismissed? I thought he left for PT.

The recruiting class was pre-CBB. Semantics with Nate Holmes but he was still an attrit.

[EastexHawg]

Nobody would've/could've won with the 2012 and 2013 teams. Cupboard was bare. Zero depth. The 2012 had more talent, but no depth, and they quit on each other as the season went on. Shameful.

The cupboard was bare?  I just listed some of the players who were on the roster in 2012.  Nine of them have started in the NFL...and others (Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Jonathan Williams) have made All-SEC teams.  Brandon Allen was waiting to step in when the previous All-SEC QB, Tyler Wilson, graduated.  Jonathan Williams was on the roster ready to take over for Knile and Dennis...with Kody Walker as his fullback.  Remember the guy whose injury supposedly doomed the passing game early this year...Keon Hatcher?  He was on those 2012-2013 squads, too. 

That you have a voice in your head that tells you things and causes you to repeat them doesn't make any of it fact.  You're offering unfounded opinions, including one that in this case has been easily refuted.

[Deep Shoat]

I see Eastex still loves ol' Bobby. 

[EastexHawg]

I see Eastex still loves ol' Bobby Arkansas being one of the top teams in the SEC and the nation...and facts as opposed to opinions stated as facts, especially those that are easily proven wrong. 

Fixt it for ya.

[buldozer]

Well it looks like CBB is doing a reasonably good job retaining players.... 

[cc]

The cupboard was bare?  I just listed some of the players who were on the roster in 2012.  Nine of them have started in the NFL...and others (Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Jonathan Williams) have made All-SEC teams.  Brandon Allen was waiting to step in when the previous All-SEC QB, Tyler Wilson, graduated.  Jonathan Williams was on the roster ready to take over for Knile and Dennis...with Kody Walker as his fullback.  Remember the guy whose injury supposedly doomed the passing game early this year...Keon Hatcher?  He was on those 2012-2013 squads, too. 

That you have a voice in your head that tells you things and causes you to repeat them doesn't make any of it fact.  You're offering unfounded opinions, including one that in this case has been easily refuted.

Slappy was coaching in 2012 with assistants sending out resumes.

[PorkBilly]

Let's just look at retention for CBB and "coaches" previously without the motorcycle debate or "I called that play" debate...please.  CBB is way ahead of anybody in yeeeeears. So....Name the #1 ranked team through the last part of 2014. That's right, MS St. How'd they do it?  Retention. Remember CBB remarking how they had 8 rotating DL and how many were upperclassmen.  They had a ton of seniors. CBB noted it several times. That's where we are headed...hopefully on a more consistent basis. That's why he wants to recruit 20-22 every year. Keep em in school with a couple going pro as juniors. More often than not, Jr and Sr's (especially 5th yr Sr) will beat newbies with a bunch of stars.

[scruf]

The cupboard was bare?  I just listed some of the players who were on the roster in 2012.  Nine of them have started in the NFL...and others (Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Jonathan Williams) have made All-SEC teams.  Brandon Allen was waiting to step in when the previous All-SEC QB, Tyler Wilson, graduated.  Jonathan Williams was on the roster ready to take over for Knile and Dennis...with Kody Walker as his fullback.  Remember the guy whose injury supposedly doomed the passing game early this year...Keon Hatcher?  He was on those 2012-2013 squads, too. 

That you have a voice in your head that tells you things and causes you to repeat them doesn't make any of it fact.  You're offering unfounded opinions, including one that in this case has been easily refuted.

You can't refute what I said about the 2012 team: They had more talent than the 2013 team but zero depth. Zero depth due to poor recruiting and even worse retention. Examples of that have already been cited in this thread. Believe whatever the voices in your head tell you but the 2010-2012 classes were bad and the retention was worse. What percentage of the NFL players you mentioned were from those classes specifically?

[CDBHawg]

Bielema's retention rate will be a lot higher than Petrino's or Nutt's.

For two reasons:
1. Signing cap of 25
2. He desires to sign 19-22 per year.

Signing full classes will result in less retention.

[Iamjacksleftnutt]

Oh yeah, other than three terrible recruiting classes in a row he was a saint. The 2012 and 2013 teams were doomed to fail because of Petrino's off the field pursuits. He did a great job of recruiting a side chick and that's about it. Sorry if you're blinded by 21-5 in two years but he had already started resting on his laurels prior to the crash.

I don't agree with that at all. The biggest part of the exodus occurred post Harley gate.

[Iamjacksleftnutt]

You can't refute what I said about the 2012 team: They had more talent than the 2013 team but zero depth. Zero depth due to poor recruiting and even worse retention. Examples of that have already been cited in this thread. Believe whatever the voices in your head tell you but the 2010-2012 classes were bad and the retention was worse. What percentage of the NFL players you mentioned were from those classes specifically?

I hate to admit this but Bobby could coach circles around CBB. He doesn't need retention or a ton of depth to win. I'm happy with who we have though. Bobby had us there in year 3. Anything about recruiting is just revisionist history.

[EastexHawg]

You can't refute what I said about the 2012 team: They had more talent than the 2013 team but zero depth. Zero depth due to poor recruiting and even worse retention.

Yes, actually I can refute it quite easily.

There was no depth?  How many scholarship players were there under Petrino?  85.  How many scholarship players are there under Bielema?  85.  Now...how does Bielema have more depth?  Furthermore, what is the purpose of having depth?  What is the purpose of every single thing a coach does?

To win football games.

Do you really want to go down the road about which staff has been more successful at achieving that ultimate objective?

[Deep Shoat]

You can't refute what I said about the 2012 team: They had more talent than the 2013 team but zero depth. Zero depth due to poor recruiting and even worse retention. Examples of that have already been cited in this thread. Believe whatever the voices in your head tell you but the 2010-2012 classes were bad and the retention was worse. What percentage of the NFL players you mentioned were from those classes specifically?

Wasting pixels.  Ol' Eastex is way too in love with Bobby to ever admit the truth.  I was kind of enjoying his silence while we finished the season on fire.  Now we'll have to listen to this drivel until after we beat TCU.

[ricepig]

Wasting pixels.  Ol' Eastex is way too in love with Bobby to ever admit the truth.  I was kind of enjoying his silence while we finished the season on fire.  Now we'll have to listen to this drivel until after we beat TCU.

No doubt, it's amazing on some posters we never hear from when we're winning.

[scruf]

Yes, actually I can refute it quite easily.

There was no depth?  How many scholarship players were there under Petrino?  85.  How many scholarship players are there under Bielema?  85.  Now...how does Bielema have more depth?  Furthermore, what is the purpose of having depth?  What is the purpose of every single thing a coach does?

To win football games.

Do you really want to go down the road about which staff has been more successful at achieving that ultimate objective?

Quality depth > Depth

I'm just going to stop right here. Have fun cheering for Louisville.

[scruf]

Wasting pixels.  Ol' Eastex is way too in love with Bobby to ever admit the truth.  I was kind of enjoying his silence while we finished the season on fire.  Now we'll have to listen to this drivel until after we beat TCU.

Yeah, I know the routine.

[ChiTown27]

I would say that your assumption could be pretty accurate.  Preventing a problem can directly result in not being a problem.

"An ounce of prevent is worth a pound of cure."

[ShadowHawg]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

2011 (12)

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Quinta Funderburk (released)
Andrew Peterson (released)
Tyler Gilbert (released)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible)
Kelvin Fisher Jr. (released)
Keante Minor (released)
Darrell Kelly-Thomas (released)
Brock Haman (released)
Jashaud Sims (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

2010 (I don't have the time or interest to chart this disaster. Worst class in the modern era.)

No offense, but a lot of your "released" guys were guys released by CBB. It's pretty much customary for a new coach to do things like this. Also, Gosha transferred to be closer to his new born child and was not ineligible. I think Petersen was also kicked off the team because he was part of the Wade thing.

[ShadowHawg]

Quality depth > Depth

I'm just going to stop right here. Have fun cheering for Louisville.

We have 8 scholarship Olinemen right now. We should have 12-14 and then in the fall that should go up to about 18. I see depth at tight end, qb, and the Dline, but we are razor thin at rb, Oline, lb, and db's.

I really don't understand why people get raked over the coals for mentioning this stuff.

[redeye]

We have 8 scholarship Olinemen right now. We should have 12-14 and then in the fall that should go up to about 18. I see depth at tight end, qb, and the Dline, but we are razor thin at rb, Oline, lb, and db's.

I really don't understand why people get raked over the coals for mentioning this stuff.

We're not that thin at RB or DB.  While we may lack shutdown corners, we still have some good talent in the secondary, but we're making them work too hard.

At RB, we have RWIII, Juan Day, Kody Walker, Denzell Evans, Devwah Whaley and TJ Hammonds.  It wouldn't surprise me if we add a transfer, but we're okay with what we have.

I'm a little surprised by how recruiting fared with the OL, but Bielema obviously doesn't consider it the problem fans do or he'd have signed more.  We were bringing in recruits for the DL left and right, but there wasn't as much focus on the OL for some reason.  We don't have the depth there we want, but we're not hurting for starters on the OL next year.

[whosiskid]

Oddly enough even with McKay's number, I just saw a tweet by him in the past week or so (January 26th) with a picture of his invite to the NFL combine.

I saw that too. But he was 6'6 and ran a 4.4. I think his vertical was really incredibly as well. So I guess camps what to see more. You don't get many kids who can run that fast who are that tall. Now, granted he was only a freshman, but I never saw any flashes of greatness when he was at Arkansas.

[presidenthog]

I heard on Bo's show that only 8 players have not worked out under CBB here at arkansas.

[presidenthog]

I saw that too. But he was 6'6 and ran a 4.4. I think his vertical was really incredibly as well. So I guess camps what to see more. You don't get many kids who can run that fast who are that tall. Now, granted he was only a freshman, but I never saw any flashes of greatness when he was at Arkansas.

We was all super excited about him after we missed on DGB and some was trying to act like we got the real star. he didn't want to play CBB'S way and here we are now. I guess he turned out alright.

[scruf]

No offense, but a lot of your "released" guys were guys released by CBB. It's pretty much customary for a new coach to do things like this. Also, Gosha transferred to be closer to his new born child and was not ineligible. I think Petersen was also kicked off the team because he was part of the Wade thing.

Thanks for the information on Gosha and Peterson. Some of the 2012 guys were released by CBB but the release rate was about that of the previous two classes which says a lot more about the players that were recruited before CBB than it does about his releasing them. The 2010-2012 classes were miserable. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The results on the field in 2012 (when the 2010 class would have been upperclassmen) and 2013 (when the 2011 class would have been upperclassmen) speak volumes about how bad they really were.

[EastexHawg]

Good Lord.  This is the dumbest post in the history of message boards.  85 is 85 folks. 

No, you hate it because you don't have an answer for it other than "because I said so!"

No coach is signing "depth" so he can have depth.  He is signing players so he can win football games.  When that argument can't be made, it's time to move on to peripheral stuff.  It's the old, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, I am the great and powerful Oz!" strategy.

[MJ2]

Bielema's retention rate will be a lot higher than Petrino's or Nutt's.

For two reasons:
1. Signing cap of 25
2. He desires to sign 19-22 per year.

Signing full classes will result in less retention.

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the full 25 if available?   Never can tell if there is a hidden gem out there that gets passed over.

[nwahogfan1]

Let's just look at retention for CBB and "coaches" previously without the motorcycle debate or "I called that play" debate...please.  CBB is way ahead of anybody in yeeeeears. So....Name the #1 ranked team through the last part of 2014. That's right, MS St. How'd they do it?  Retention. Remember CBB remarking how they had 8 rotating DL and how many were upperclassmen.  They had a ton of seniors. CBB noted it several times. That's where we are headed...hopefully on a more consistent basis. That's why he wants to recruit 20-22 every year. Keep em in school with a couple going pro as juniors. More often than not, Jr and Sr's (especially 5th yr Sr) will beat newbies with a bunch of stars.

Totally agree with you.  Until we start signing top 10 recruiting classes we need to sign good kids who will stay in school, learn their position, get bigger and stronger. 

With the number and quality of DL returning in 2016 hopefully we can keep teams under 125 rushing yards and get a pass rush to protect our back end.  If that happens and we can keep scores in the low 20s then even with a new QB and 3 new OLM we can sneek out more wins that probable what most SEC expects expect.  I hope 8+ wins in 2016

[woodrow hog call]

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the full 25 if available?   Never can tell if there is a hidden gem out there that gets passed over.

In a way I want to as well but, what about the walkons that we can coach and see how they react, how hard they work in the off season?

There is where we fill out the class after, we are sure of how deserving they are.

Signing 25 every year is a guarantee that some have to leave to stay under the limit, giving scholarships to walkons builds a program in a lot of ways.

[ShadowHawg]

That is not really the case.  Anyone that has stepped into a leadership position from the outside will realize this.  It is not in your best interest to step in and clean the place out but as you are going along, those that are unwilling or unable to toe the line will be weeded out.  At best you would have to say the players lost in the transitional phase are on both coaches.

Nope you can't. They were on the team when he took over. All retention is on him at that point. What can be said though is that his retention levels have become better as he has brought in the kids he has evaluated to work within his system. No one can argue that point.

[CDBHawg]

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the full 25 if available?   Never can tell if there is a hidden gem out there that gets passed over.

If available yes, most years it won't be though.

We stand at 87 right now. Signing 25 would've put us at 92. 

[Oklahawg]

Quality depth > Depth

I'm just going to stop right here. Have fun cheering for Louisville.

Yeah, to suggest that the depth under Bobby was even remotely usable is, well, laughable.

Slappy was coachingsmiling in 2012 with assistants sending out resumes.

Fixed it

[Tejano Jawg]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

2011 (12)

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Quinta Funderburk (released)
Andrew Peterson (released)
Tyler Gilbert (released)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible)
Kelvin Fisher Jr. (released)
Keante Minor (released)
Darrell Kelly-Thomas (released)
Brock Haman (released)
Jashaud Sims (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

2010 (I don't have the time or interest to chart this disaster. Worst class in the modern era.)

Right after your first post, I immediately wondered about this situation during the Petrino years. So thanks for the research. It just seemed, at the time, there were way more people not panning out than I'd expected.

I lost track of some of the familiar names on this list—players who were talked about quite a bit (Kelvin Fisher), then just finally vanished. I know what happened to many of these guys, curious about the others.

All in all, I think Bielema is doing a better job keeping who should be here, getting rid of the rest. Maybe he's just doing a better job recruiting the right kind of kids to begin with.

[Oklahawg]

No offense, but a lot of your "released" guys were guys released by CBB. It's pretty much customary for a new coach to do things like this. Also, Gosha transferred to be closer to his new born child and was not ineligible. I think Petersen was also kicked off the team because he was part of the Wade thing.

No offense, but you are making broad generalizations.

Here is scruf's list:
2012

Demetrius Dean (released strange issue ... did he make it to campus?)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
Austin Flynn (dismissed over legal issue)
Mekale McKay (released requested transfer)

2011

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Andrew Peterson (released dismissed)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible dropped out mid season)
Keante Minor (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

Some of these were gone before CBB arrived, and if they were medical hardships it wouldn't matter who was the coach. AT LEAST these players would be gone in virtually every coach's tenure.

Also, it should be noted that CBB's numbers will begin to climb. Rightfully so, he was more willing to give his own players a shot vs players he inherited. They got a shot, yes, but he will invest a step further for his own (he sat in their living room and promised Momma as much). But, as they begin not panning out and he needs the numbers...the attritution rate will grow.

CBP was not as bad as Nutt about having kids not make it to campus at all. CBP was worse than CBB at reaching and grasping at a body not talent. Pretty obvious conclusion to me.

[bell2629]

Wouldn't it make more sense to take the full 25 if available?   Never can tell if there is a hidden gem out there that gets passed over.

Ricky Townsss says hi.

[scruf]

No offense, but you are making broad generalizations.

Here is scruf's list:
2012

Demetrius Dean (released strange issue ... did he make it to campus?)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
Austin Flynn (dismissed over legal issue)
Mekale McKay (released requested transfer)

2011

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Andrew Peterson (released dismissed)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible dropped out mid season)
Keante Minor (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

Some of these were gone before CBB arrived, and if they were medical hardships it wouldn't matter who was the coach. AT LEAST these players would be gone in virtually every coach's tenure.

Also, it should be noted that CBB's numbers will begin to climb. Rightfully so, he was more willing to give his own players a shot vs players he inherited. They got a shot, yes, but he will invest a step further for his own (he sat in their living room and promised Momma as much). But, as they begin not panning out and he needs the numbers...the attritution rate will grow.

CBP was not as bad as Nutt about having kids not make it to campus at all. CBP was worse than CBB at reaching and grasping at a body not talent. Pretty obvious conclusion to me.

OH -

Thanks for the corrections. I went back and did a little more research because of it.

Dean was on the team, then off, then on again, then off again. Really weird deal. McKay was technically released after asking for a transfer. Whitehurst had some attitude problems and was actually dismissed. He left SC after the 2014 season "on his own." Kid was a head case, albeit a very fast one.

[jgphillips3]

As noted above, our retention rate had to improve since the enactment of the 25 hard cap.  Back when you could sign 30, you could afford to lose 5 more per year.  Therefore, retention at every school in the SEC is going to climb but anyone who cares could still look at retention as a percentage rather than raw number.  I do believe Bielema's approach to recruiting and the type of young men he recruits will put us near the top in terms of retention, grade point, graduation rate and several other areas as the years progress.

[PorkSoda]

Anyone know where to find this type info for other teams?

lol, if they did that, they wouldn't be able bash petrino.  every team has turnover, but its only bad when it happens to petrino.

[cc]

lol, if they did that, they wouldn't be able bash petrino.  every team has turnover, but its only bad when it happens to petrino.

Every team does not have this amount of turnover that was pointed out over the 3 year period. 

[bennyl08]

Every team does not have this amount of turnover that was pointed out over the 3 year period.

Most teams who switch coaches twice in as many years do.

Further, a lot of those kids left after 2-3 years. CBB's classes haven't had that same ability for hindsight.

[EastexHawg]

Petrino having 85, and Bielema having 85 does not mean they both had depth.  You can have your 9 future NFL starters, with virtually zero depth, and I will take a roster full of 3* and above,  and beat you every single day. 

You post this after saying you hope I am posting from a highly secure facility?  I hope you're around people who care when the walls of reality finally come crashing down.

The object of the game is not to have depth.  It is to win football games.  At the end of Petrino's four years at Arkansas his record was 34-17 overall, 17-15 in SEC play.  In addition to those numbers, he was 3-0 against then non-conference opponent Texas A&M.  To match those totals in this upcoming fourth year, Bielema...who is currently 18-20 overall and 9-15 in conference...will have to go...

Oh, never mind.  It doesn't matter.  I'm sure there is a convenient explanation for everything.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I would say that your assumption could be pretty accurate.  Preventing a problem can directly result in not being a problem.

What if the problem is non-production.  That's a problem of another kind that can bit your but if your only goal is retention.

The numbers say we are eventually going to have some very small classes.  Now that would be fine if it were an exact science but we all know it isn't. 

[DeltaBoy]

Proves we had a 3 year drought in Recruiting.  No wonder this rebuilding effort taking so long.

[EastexHawg]

See if you can spin that.

I don't have to spin anything.  I haven't spun anything.  I provided facts, non-subjective results that can be verified.  And, just as I said you would, you countered with conveniently crafted explanations, opinions, and excuses.

Why don't you just let it go while you're behind?

[scruf]

I'm glad Arkansas is done with these types of efforts:

2014 (45th)

http://louisville.247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/Commits

2015 (32nd)

http://louisville.247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/Commits

2016 (37th)

http://louisville.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

Three year average: 38th


What's happened to the 2014 class so far:

S Michael Johnson (2nd highest rated player in the class; failed to qualify - never made it to campus)
DE Terry Ramsey (RS in 2014; left team after end of season)
DT Tae Thibodeaux (medical)
WR Cameron Polk (dismissed; drugs)
OL Jimmy Terry (no longer on team)
LB Sharieff Rhaheed (impregnated a 14 year old; went to JUCO)

Add those six to the five JUCO signees and that's 11/23 players that are no longer on the team. I'll pass. They can keep him forever.

[Deep Shoat]

I don't have to spin anything.  I haven't spun anything.  I provided facts, non-subjective results that can be verified.  And, just as I said you would, you countered with conveniently crafted explanations, opinions, and excuses.

Why don't you just let it go while you're behind?

See, that's the thing.  He's not behind.  You are.  Because the rest of us can look at those facts in context.  Your nose is so deep in Bobby's posterior, context is impossible.

[Cinco de Hogo]

See, that's the thing.  He's not behind.  You are.  Because the rest of us can look at those facts in context.  Your nose is so deep in Bobby's posterior, context is impossible.

The only problem with you guys scenario is that you never take into consideration what Petrino would have done to keep the roster whole if he hadn't messed up.  Yes you can blame Petrino for what happened but just don't say he would have crashed and burned anyway.  You have no proof that would have happened.  All the proof I have of anything right now is what Petrino and CBB have actually accomplished.  I watched Petrino fill holes in the roster for four years and win.  I've seen Bielema build a roster in a more consistant way and improve the team with wins and bowl games.  That's what I know.

Right now I do not know if Bielema will win 10/11 games but the future looks like it will be at the very least solid.