Retention by year

[MJ2]

What are the stats for CBB since he's been here as far as # signed per year and how many are still part of the team today?    Is the retention rate good?

[scruf]

What are the stats for CBB since he's been here as far as # signed per year and how many are still part of the team today?    Is the retention rate good?

Good thread.

2013 (7)

Myke Tavarres (dismissed)
Melvinson Hartfield (ineligible)
Alex Brignoni (medical)
Korliss Marshall (dismissed)
Alex Collins (NFL)
Denver Kirkland (NFL)
Hunter Henry (NFL)

2014 (6)

JoJo Robinson (dismissed)
Chris Murphy (released)
Kendrick Edwards (dismissed)
Jovan Pruitt (ineligible)
Anthony Brown (dismissed)
Randy Ramsey (dismissed; rejoined as walk-on)

2015 (0)

[JaketheSnake]

Good thread.

2013 (7)

Myke Tavarres (dismissed)
Melvinson Hartfield (ineligible)
Alex Brignoni (medical)
Korliss Marshall (dismissed)
Alex Collins (NFL)
Denver Kirkland (NFL)
Hunter Henry (NFL)

2014 (6)

JoJo Robinson (dismissed)
Chris Murphy (released)
Kendrick Edwards (dismissed)
Jovan Pruitt (ineligible)
Anthony Brown (dismissed)
Randy Ramsey (dismissed; rejoined as walk-on)

2015 (0)

The retention is pretty good.  If those three were not leaving early, it would be downright impressive!  The only signed whiff was Pruitt.  Edwards and Robinson might still be on a lot of teams in the SEC, but I like the discipline and accountability.

[scruf]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

2011 (12)

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Quinta Funderburk (released)
Andrew Peterson (released)
Tyler Gilbert (released)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible)
Kelvin Fisher Jr. (released)
Keante Minor (released)
Darrell Kelly-Thomas (released)
Brock Haman (released)
Jashaud Sims (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

2010 (I don't have the time or interest to chart this disaster. Worst class in the modern era.)

[scruf]

When you look at the 2010-2012 classes it's really easy to see why 2012 and 2013 (7 total wins) were so tragic. It was basically a three year whiff.

[gmarv]

the retention rate cbb has is one of the more impressive traits of our coaches recruiting . when you lose 13 players over 3 years and 3 of those to the nfl that's good.

[whosiskid]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

2011 (12)

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Quinta Funderburk (released)
Andrew Peterson (released)
Tyler Gilbert (released)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible)
Kelvin Fisher Jr. (released)
Keante Minor (released)
Darrell Kelly-Thomas (released)
Brock Haman (released)
Jashaud Sims (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

2010 (I don't have the time or interest to chart this disaster. Worst class in the modern era.)

Thanks for the list. I do think there is a difference between released and released. I would be too much trouble to dig out which ones were released after we suggested that there might not be much of a place for them and those who we would have liked to keep but who asked to leave against out preference. If we worked hard we could come up with "Released with Team Encouragement" and "Released against Team's Desire."

Even more interesting would be to see how many left  on their own only to find minimal success elsewhere. Mekale McKay, for instance, went to Cincinnati to get 16, 44, and 27 receptions after 21 as a freshman. I wonder if he wondered this past fall at how many he might have gotten had he stayed at Arkansas.

Depressing seeing Otha Peters name. I thought he was going to be a really great player after his freshman year.

[factchecker]

This is what I found from the 2010 class. 

2010 (12)

Courtney Gatson- (never made it to camps: JUCO)
Jatashun "Big Tex" Beachum- (released)
Calvin Barnett- (never made it to campus: JUCO.... ended up at Okie State and was All-Big12)
LaCraig Brown- (released)
Eduardo Camara- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Brad Hefley- (released)
Cam Fedlt- (released/ transfer to North Texas)
Jeremiah Jackson- (released)
Jacoby Walker- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Denton Simek- (released/ transfer to UCO... central oklahoma)
Darrell Smith- (transfer to Murray State)

Not sure about any of the walk ons

[longpig]

Anyone know where to find this type info for other teams?

[scruf]

This is what I found from the 2010 class. 

2010 (12)

Courtney Gatson- (never made it to camps: JUCO)
Jatashun "Big Tex" Beachum- (released)
Calvin Barnett- (never made it to campus: JUCO.... ended up at Okie State and was All-Big12)
LaCraig Brown- (released)
Eduardo Camara- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Brad Hefley- (released)
Cam Fedlt- (released/ transfer to North Texas)
Jeremiah Jackson- (released)
Jacoby Walker- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Denton Simek- (released/ transfer to UCO... central oklahoma)
Darrell Smith- (transfer to Murray State)
Alan Turner- (released/ transfer to astate... kicked out of jonesboro shortly after)

Not sure about any of the walk ons

Excellent work. That class was ranked in the 40s to begin with and then a lot of the more highly-rated players were either complete busts (Beachum) or never made it to campus (Barnett). Alan Turner was the safety that ended up being a two-year starter. I think you are confusing him with AJ Turner, the linebacker with the broken arm that never really healed.

[The_Iceman]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

2011 (12)

Marquel Wade (dismissed)
Quinta Funderburk (released)
Andrew Peterson (released)
Tyler Gilbert (released)
Lonnie Gosha (ineligible)
Kelvin Fisher Jr. (released)
Keante Minor (released)
Darrell Kelly-Thomas (released)
Brock Haman (released)
Jashaud Sims (released)
Brett Weir (medical)
Kane Whitehurst (released)

2010 (I don't have the time or interest to chart this disaster. Worst class in the modern era.)

This is what I found from the 2010 class. 

2010 (12)

Courtney Gatson- (never made it to camps: JUCO)
Jatashun "Big Tex" Beachum- (released)
Calvin Barnett- (never made it to campus: JUCO.... ended up at Okie State and was All-Big12)
LaCraig Brown- (released)
Eduardo Camara- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Brad Hefley- (released)
Cam Fedlt- (released/ transfer to North Texas)
Jeremiah Jackson- (released)
Jacoby Walker- (released/ transfer to UCA)
Denton Simek- (released/ transfer to UCO... central oklahoma)
Darrell Smith- (transfer to Murray State)
Alan Turner- (released/ transfer to astate... kicked out of jonesboro shortly after)

Not sure about any of the walk ons

When you look at that, it makes you realize the situation Bielema took over and why its amazing the progress he has made. It also shows you that Petrino's 10 and 11 win run was about to take a huge hit. He got out at just the right time and saved his reputation.

[jm]

When you look at that, it makes you realize the situation Bielema took over and why its amazing the progress he has made. It also shows you that Petrino's 10 and 11 win run was about to take a huge hit. He got out at just the right time and saved his reputation.

100% correct IMO
The wreck was probably the best thing that ever happened to BP. It may have saved his career.

[scruf]

When you look at that, it makes you realize the situation Bielema took over and why its amazing the progress he has made. It also shows you that Petrino's 10 and 11 win run was about to take a huge hit. He got out at just the right time and saved his reputation.

Yeah, he literally saved his career by ditching it. You are 100% spot-on in your assessment. A lot of people on here who wanted Jeff Long to retain Petrino often argue that the 11 win season was just a sign of things to come when it was actually his Mona Lisa.

[SDZ_Hog]

I bet there is a pretty good correlation with number of scholarships offered and retention rate.   

[scruf]

I bet there is a pretty good correlation with number of scholarships offered and retention rate.   

In what way?

[SDZ_Hog]

In what way?

I have no clue and just making an assumption.    if your criteria for signing someone eliminates attitude problems, grade risks,  injury prone and whatever else factors that can determine down the road problems your offer list is going to be smaller because your offer criteria is higher.   

[Iamjacksleftnutt]

100% correct IMO
The wreck was probably the best thing that ever happened to BP. It may have saved his career.

Hogville is always good for a laugh.. Petrino would have won with whatever he had. And most of the departures occured due to the fact that Petrino left. Some of you guys should be doing stand up comedy.

[Uncommon]

Since 2010
2010 11 of 25 finished
2011 17 of 32 are expecting to finish (Kody Walker still on team)
2012 11 of 25 are expecting to finish
2013 18 of 23 are expecting to finish
2014 19 of 25 are expecting to finish (Put Ramsey as did not finish since he reentered as a 2016 walk-on)
2015 25 of 25 are expecting to finish
2016 20 of 20 are expecting to finish

Break down of next year's current 85 and when they were added to the roster:
2011 (1)
Kody Walker

2012 (9)
Toby Baker
Jared Collins
Keon Hatcher
Eric Hawkins
Taiwan Johnson
Brandon Lewis
Jeremy Sprinkle
JaMichael Winston
Deatrich Wise Jr.

2013 (12)
Austin Allen
Tevin Beanum
De'Andre Coley
DJ Dean
Brooks Ellis
Denzell Evans
Ke'Tyrus Marks
Damon Mitchell
Drew Morgan
Kevin Richardson II
Karl Roesler
Dan Skipper

2014 (18)
Jared Cornelius
Juan Day
Dwayne Eugene
Cornelius Floyd
Khalia Hackett
Jake Hall
Cole Hedlund
Cody Hollister
Bijhon Jackson
Jack Kraus
Josh Liddell
Rafe Peavey
Frank Ragnow
Santos Ramirez
Henre' Toliver
Brian Wallace
Armon Watts
Josh Williams

2015 (25)
Josh Allen
Jamario Bell
Austin Cantrell
Nate Dalton
Daytrieon Dean
Hjalte Froholdt
Will Gragg
Derrick Graham
Dre Greenlaw
Colton Jackson
Kendrick Jackson
Blake Johnson
Jeremiah Ledbetter
Jalen Merrick
CJ O'Grady
La'Michael Pettway
Ryan Pulley
Dominique Reed
Zach Rogers
TJ Smith
Deon Stewart
Ty Storey
Willie Sykes
Ricky Town
Rawleigh Williams III

2016 (20)
McTelvin Agim
Kofi Boateng
Austin Capps
Deon Edwards
Briston Guidry
Grayson Gunter
TJ Hammonds
De'Jon Harris
Jake Heinrich
Alexy Jean-Baptiste
Hayden Johnson
Jordan Jones
Cole Kelley
Giovanni LaFrance
Deion Malone
Jonathan Marshall
Paul Ramirez
Micahh Smith
Dee Walker
Devwah Whaley

[Sir Oinksalot]

Lonnie Gosha....god that one still hurts a bit.

[Iamjacksleftnutt]

Yeah, he literally saved his career by ditching it. You are 100% spot-on in your assessment. A lot of people on here who wanted Jeff Long to retain Petrino often argue that the 11 win season was just a sign of things to come when it was actually his Mona Lisa.

Come on Scruff you are one of my favorite posters. But this is nonsense. Are you butthurt that bad still ? Guys left bc Bobby was no longer here. He would have done fine. Maybe even won it all had it not been for the wreck. I'm a Hog fan not a fan of any one coach fyi... But other than the wreck and all that mess Bobby did good for us.

[RzrbkRat]

Hogville is always good for a laugh.. Petrino would have won with whatever he had. And most of the departures occured due to the fact that Petrino left. Some of you guys should be doing stand up comedy.

This post is good for a laugh... Petrino was 8-5 last year in the brutal ACC

[Sir Oinksalot]

...he might be like Tiger, without a steady diet of blondes on the buffet
he can't perform...

[inhognation]

Thanks for the list. I do think there is a difference between released and released. I would be too much trouble to dig out which ones were released after we suggested that there might not be much of a place for them and those who we would have liked to keep but who asked to leave against out preference. If we worked hard we could come up with "Released with Team Encouragement" and "Released against Team's Desire."

Even more interesting would be to see how many left  on their own only to find minimal success elsewhere. Mekale McKay, for instance, went to Cincinnati to get 16, 44, and 27 receptions after 21 as a freshman. I wonder if he wondered this past fall at how many he might have gotten had he stayed at Arkansas.

Depressing seeing Otha Peters name. I thought he was going to be a really great player after his freshman year.

Oddly enough even with McKay's number, I just saw a tweet by him in the past week or so (January 26th) with a picture of his invite to the NFL combine.

[JackJohnson]

Retention is obviously critical- however if you look at teams like bama their retention rate isn't very good as they are "processing" through players right and left whether it be 3 and out guys to the NFL, or guys that don't contribute after 1 or 2 years and are shown the door to be replaced with new recruits that can potentially make an impact

CBB doesn't seem to like pushing players out the door even when it is obviously they will never be playing or helping us as long as they are going to class, staying out of trouble and showing up to meetings/practice on time.  While I applaud him for this- it can also be a double edged sword.  There were several Sr's that graduated last year that literally never saw the field.  There are several rising RS So's and Jr's that fit this same criteria that at most places would have already been shown the door and replaced with new recruits. 

When you have dead weight that sucks up a scholarship for 4-5 years and those players aren't getting on the field that is only hurting you...

[cc]

I have no clue and just making an assumption.    if your criteria for signing someone eliminates attitude problems, grade risks,  injury prone and whatever else factors that can determine down the road problems your offer list is going to be smaller because your offer criteria is higher.   

I would say that your assumption could be pretty accurate.  Preventing a problem can directly result in not being a problem. 

[hawginbigd1]

Lonnie Gosha....god that one still hurts a bit.

I know you are joking but that cat was making plays in his little time here.

[EastexHawg]

Since 2010
2010 11 of 25 finished
2011 17 of 32 are expecting to finish (Kody Walker still on team)
2012 11 of 25 are expecting to finish
2013 18 of 23 are expecting to finish
2014 19 of 25 are expecting to finish (Put Ramsey as did not finish since he reentered as a 2016 walk-on)
2015 25 of 25 are expecting to finish
2016 20 of 20 are expecting to finish

How can you make the claim that 20 of 20 signed in 2016 are expected to finish their careers at Arkansas?  How many players did Petrino, Nutt, Ford, Hatfield, Holtz, or Broyles dismiss or release from the squad within three days of receiving their LOIs?

Furthermore, how many players left the program when there were multiple coaching changes?

Look at your own numbers.  You claim 64 players from the 2014-2016 classes will finish their careers at Arkansas.  If that's so, that means based on the NCAA limit of 85 on scholarship at any given time it would be mathematically impossible for any more than 21 from the combined 2012-2013 classes to finish (85-19-25-20=21).

But wait...according to your numbers, 29 from the 2012-2013 classes are finishing as Hogs.  How is that possible?

Furthermore, assuming 2/3 of signees redshirt, that means that if the guys you claim will be retained and finish their careers at Arkansas really do stay, we as a program cannot POSSIBLY retain more than about 23 total players out of the next two (2017 and 2018) combined classes.  Looking at the list you provided, I don't see any two year period during which we retained fewer than 29.

Does that mean you are going to make a similar post in a few years about how few players were retained from the 2017 and 2018 classes?  Or does it mean that your compelling argument about player retention is not only not nearly as compelling as you think it is, but probably just downright wrong?

[Uncommon]

How can you make the claim that 20 of 20 signed in 2016 are expected to finish their careers at Arkansas?  How many players did Petrino, Nutt, Ford, Hatfield, Holtz, or Broyles dismiss or release from the squad within three days of receiving their LOIs?

Furthermore, how many players left the program when there were multiple coaching changes?

Look at your own numbers.  You claim 64 players from the 2014-2016 classes will finish their careers at Arkansas.  If that's so, that means based on the NCAA limit of 85 on scholarship at any given time it would be mathematically impossible for any more than 21 from the combined 2012-2013 classes to finish (85-19-25-20=21).

But wait...according to your numbers, 29 from the 2012-2013 classes are finishing as Hogs.  How is that possible?

Furthermore, assuming 2/3 of signees redshirt, that means that if the guys you claim will be retained and finish their careers at Arkansas really do stay, we as a program cannot POSSIBLY retain more than about 23 total players out of the next two (2017 and 2018) combined classes.  Looking at the list you provided, I don't see any two year period during which we retained fewer than 29.

Does that mean you are going to make a similar post in a few years about how few players were retained from the 2017 and 2018 classes?  Or does it mean that your compelling argument about player retention is not only not nearly as compelling as you think it is, but probably just downright wrong?

It's a formality, bro.  Of course all of the 2015 and 2016 classes won't finish.  But for now the expectation is that they will.  And not all of the remaining 2013 and 2014 class members will likely finish as well.  It is just a current state of affairs that will change throughout the coming season.  With that change, the numbers will be updated.

And did you look at the breakdown below this?

8 from the 2012 class are still on the team.  Darius Philon, Jonathan Williams, and Demetrius Wilson finished their eligibility.  I count leaving for the draft early as finishing your eligibility.

10 from the 2013 class are still on the team.  Tiquention Coleman, Alex Collins, Hunter Henry, Sam Irwin-Hill, Denver Kirkland, John McClure, Martrell Spaight, and Carroll Washington are the other 8 that have finished eligibility.

So it is possible for 11 from the 2012 class + 18 from the 2013 class to finish their eligibility.  They just don't finish their eligibility all in the same year.

[cc]

Hogville is always good for a laugh.. Petrino would have won with whatever he had. And most of the departures occured due to the fact that Petrino left. Some of you guys should be doing stand up comedy.

Most people do not find being confronted with the truth to be funny enough to do comedy.  Petrino did some good things no doubt.  If he can win with anything, why did we not win 11 his first year?  Please point out the situation he was left, so you can reiterate the point people are making.

[hawginbigd1]

Pre-Bielema:

2012 (11)

Otha Peters (released)
Demetrius Dean (released)
D'Arthur Cowan (released)
Donovan Roberts (never made it to campus)
A.J. Turner (released)
Defonta Lowe (released)
Nate Holmes (dismissed)
Will Hines (released)
Austin Flynn (dismissed)
Mekale McKay (released)
Ray Buchanan Jr. (released)

Just curious why you classify this as Pre-CBB, all of these played for him, was Nate Holmes dismissed? I thought he left for PT.

[Uncommon]

Just curious why you classify this as Pre-CBB, all of these played for him, was Nate Holmes dismissed? I thought he left for PT.

He's saying this class was signed before Bielema got here.  Hence, pre Bielema era.

[EastexHawg]

If he can win with anything, why did we not win 11 his first year?

I don't think you want to get into side-by-side comparisons of how many games Petrino won each of his first, second, third...and fourth...years. 

As for what each coach was left, let's first remember that there was another (alleged) coach between Petrino and Bielema.  That (alleged) coach was left some pretty impressive talent, including Tyler Wilson, Brandon Allen, Cobi Hamilton, Keon Hatcher, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, Jonathan Williams, Chris Gragg, Jeremy Sprinkle, Chris Smith, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Taiwan Johnson, Jamichael Winston, Kiero Small, Travis Swanson, Alvin Bailey, Mitch Smothers, Brey Cook, Zach Hocker, Rohan Gaines, Tevin Mitchel, and...well, you get the picture.

Go to any recruiting service you want and compare the ranks of the last few classes Nutt signed compared to those signed by Petrino if you want to know what Petrino inherited vs. what he left behind.  I did it on this forum a day or two ago using Scout.  According to their numbers, Nutt's last five classes averaged around 30th nationally, while Petrino's averaged 24th.  But, again...forget the rankings.  Take a look at the names.  How many of the guys I just listed were All-SEC, drafted into the NFL, hold Arkansas records of one sort or another, or were at the very least multiple year starters...some of them on very good teams?

[cc]

How can you make the claim that 20 of 20 signed in 2016 are expected to finish their careers at Arkansas?  How many players did Petrino, Nutt, Ford, Hatfield, Holtz, or Broyles dismiss or release from the squad within three days of receiving their LOIs?

Furthermore, how many players left the program when there were multiple coaching changes?

Look at your own numbers.  You claim 64 players from the 2014-2016 classes will finish their careers at Arkansas.  If that's so, that means based on the NCAA limit of 85 on scholarship at any given time it would be mathematically impossible for any more than 21 from the combined 2012-2013 classes to finish (85-19-25-20=21).

But wait...according to your numbers, 29 from the 2012-2013 classes are finishing as Hogs.  How is that possible?

Furthermore, assuming 2/3 of signees redshirt, that means that if the guys you claim will be retained and finish their careers at Arkansas really do stay, we as a program cannot POSSIBLY retain more than about 23 total players out of the next two (2017 and 2018) combined classes.  Looking at the list you provided, I don't see any two year period during which we retained fewer than 29.

Does that mean you are going to make a similar post in a few years about how few players were retained from the 2017 and 2018 classes?  Or does it mean that your compelling argument about player retention is not only not nearly as compelling as you think it is, but probably just downright wrong?

Point is that for three classes 10-12 only 47.5 percent made it through from what I see.  Not good at all.  I have no idea if Alabama, LSU, FSU, Ohio State, Vanderbilt, etc. retain 50 or 90% of their classes.  I know long term success can not be built on retaining roughly 50%.  That would only be 62-63 scholarship players on the roster for a five year period (125 possible signed x .5 = 62.5)  I count a three year guy leaving to get drafted a success as far as retention rate even if they don't get their degree.  At that point to remain eligible, they can't be much more than 2 semesters short.   

[hawginbigd1]

He's saying this class was signed before Bielema got here.  Hence, pre Bielema era.

Fair enough but he honored their commitments he has to be responsible for the retention rate there IMO. Retention overall has been pretty good, and you need some attrition because you are not going to hit on every player. Not every player you evaluate is really going to be an SEC player. I would say so far I will give the staff a C on retention, if I were in that position, my belief is if one of my players (position coach) had continuous non-criminal outside or locker room issues that I couldn't coach them up on, I have failed to do my job appropriately! The LB's and WR's we have dismissed are a failure of their position coaches IMO as much as it is the players.

[EastexHawg]

He's saying this class was signed before Bielema got here.  Hence, pre Bielema era.

If they played for Bielema, how can the fact they weren't retained be blamed on Petrino?

[EastexHawg]

I know long term success can not be built on retaining roughly 50%.  That would only be 62-63 scholarship players on the roster for a five year period 

Did we in fact have only 62-63 on scholarship at any given time while Petrino or any other coach was at Arkansas?  The answer is...no.

[cc]

I don't think you want to get into side-by-side comparisons of how many games Petrino won each of his first, second, third...and fourth...years. 

As for what each coach was left, let's first remember that there was another (alleged) coach between Petrino and Bielema.  That (alleged) coach was left some pretty impressive talent, including Tyler Wilson, Brandon Allen, Cobi Hamilton, Keon Hatcher, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, Jonathan Williams, Chris Gragg, Jeremy Sprinkle, Chris Smith, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Taiwan Johnson, Jamichael Winston, Kiero Small, Travis Swanson, Alvin Bailey, Mitch Smothers, Brey Cook, Zach Hocker, Rohan Gaines, Tevin Mitchel, and...well, you get the picture.

Go to any recruiting service you want and compare the ranks of the last few classes Nutt signed compared to those signed by Petrino if you want to know what Petrino inherited vs. what he left behind.  I did it on this forum a day or two ago using Scout.  According to their numbers, Nutt's last five classes averaged around 30th nationally, while Petrino's averaged 24th.  But, again...forget the rankings.  Take a look at the names.  How many of the guys I just listed were All-SEC, drafted into the NFL, hold Arkansas records of one sort or another, or were at the very least multiple year starters...some of them on very good teams?

Very good players left by Petrino but depth was suffering.  I think we saw that behind Philon and Flowers.  Younger talented guys but were playing as Fresh and sophmores.  Hard to compete that young in the SEC unless you are a top guy coming out of high school.  LSU with some of their recent d-ends, d backs, and Alabama's fronts on defense had supremely talented young guys. 

There seems to be no in between on this board with some.  You can not point anything Petrino did wrong without being called stupid or point out the good with some with same results.  Some hate Coach B and would complain about getting lucky to beat Bama by 10 if we went 15-0 and won the National Championship.  Petrino had us very relevant for a few years, but one can not make the claim that he could win with anything when he didn't.

[Uncommon]

Fair enough but he honored their commitments he has to be responsible for the retention rate there IMO.

If they played for Bielema, how can the fact they weren't retained be blamed on Petrino?

You'd have to specifically look at a case by case basis of why players left.  Most of the time it is ultimately the players fault for not staying eligible/qualifying, following team rules, legal troubles/drugs, or just wanting a better chance somewhere else.  However, you recruit your own problems.  So if a player didn't work out here, that falls on the original coach that signed him.

[cc]

Did we in fact have only 62-63 on scholarship at any given time while Petrino or any other coach was at Arkansas?  The answer is...no.

We did only have 39 that made or will make it from a three year period is the point.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Did we in fact have only 62-63 on scholarship at any given time while Petrino or any other coach was at Arkansas?  The answer is...no.

Easier to do when we could sign more than 25 which changed in the middle of CBP's tenure

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

If they played for Bielema, how can the fact they weren't retained be blamed on Petrino?

Yes, CBP brought them in. CBB didn't kick anyone out that followed his rules

[cc]

If they played for Bielema, how can the fact they weren't retained be blamed on Petrino?

Because he took some flyers on some players that were problems or developed into them.  Also not all that left were problems and left for other reasons.  Got some really talented players but not much depth. 

[cc]

I am going to sum this up for everybody.  Some that wish Petrino was still here are going to defend anything by cherry picking and some that hate him do the same.  Good info in this thread and points on both sides of argument by those that appear to be in the middle but those on both ends make it unreadable.

[cc]

My above post applies to most all "Mike Anderson is a good/bad coach because of" threads as well.

[EastexHawg]

We did only have 39 that made or will make it from a three year period is the point.

After two coaching changes.

85-39=46.  We've already established that at least 11 of those who didn't finish played for Bielema, so that means they were holdovers not only from Petrino but also a year of John L. Smith.

Given that, we're now at 85-39-11=35.  That means if those 11 hadn't left Bielema couldn't have placed more than (roughly) 35 total players on scholarship over the next two combined years.

Bielema came in, signed his own players for his system, and as part of that process some players who were already on hand left on their own or pushed out the door.  If that hadn't happened it would have been impossible for Bielema to retain as many of his own players as he did.

[Uncommon]

Bielema came in, signed his own players for his system, and as part of that process some players who were already on hand left on their own or pushed out the door.

Oh please.  If they follow team rules, stay eligible, and work hard, they can stay as long as they want.  Case in point, him wanting 2012 non contributors Cordale Boyd, a signee, and Nicholas Thomas-Smith, a walk-on, to stay for their 5th year.

[cc]

After two coaching changes.

85-39=46.  We've already established that at least 11 of those who didn't finish played for Bielema, so that means they were holdovers not only from Petrino but also a year of John L. Smith.

Given that, we're now at 85-39-11=35.  That means if those 11 hadn't left Bielema couldn't have placed more than (roughly) 35 total players on scholarship over the next two combined years.

Bielema came in, signed his own players for his system, and as part of that process some players who were already on hand left on their own or pushed out the door.  If that hadn't happened it would have been impossible for Bielema to retain as many of his own players as he did.

No argument that instability leads to more instability.  I will say that no players were pushed out the door unless grades or actions of their own accord.  Some left for more playing time, etc.  Happens with most coaching changes due to style of play, personalities, or even loyalty to previous staff.  I would probably not be happy if signed in February to play for Petrino or liked my position coach on his staff only to have him gone 2 months later.

[jkstock04]

Hogville is always good for a laugh.. Petrino would have won with whatever he had. And most of the departures occured due to the fact that Petrino left. Some of you guys should be doing stand up comedy.

Not sure about most of them...but I would argue some of them. I don't think the retention would have been this terribly bad had Petrino stayed. I took notice during the season, McKay has had a pretty good career at Cincinnati.

Regardless, when you have classes ranked in the 40s nationally, trying to compete in the SEC west isn't going to be easy.

[JackJohnson]

I don't think you want to get into side-by-side comparisons of how many games Petrino won each of his first, second, third...and fourth...years. 

As for what each coach was left, let's first remember that there was another (alleged) coach between Petrino and Bielema.  That (alleged) coach was left some pretty impressive talent, including Tyler Wilson, Brandon Allen, Cobi Hamilton, Keon Hatcher, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, Jonathan Williams, Chris Gragg, Jeremy Sprinkle, Chris Smith, Trey Flowers, Darius Philon, Taiwan Johnson, Jamichael Winston, Kiero Small, Travis Swanson, Alvin Bailey, Mitch Smothers, Brey Cook, Zach Hocker, Rohan Gaines, Tevin Mitchel, and...well, you get the picture.

Go to any recruiting service you want and compare the ranks of the last few classes Nutt signed compared to those signed by Petrino if you want to know what Petrino inherited vs. what he left behind.  I did it on this forum a day or two ago using Scout.  According to their numbers, Nutt's last five classes averaged around 30th nationally, while Petrino's averaged 24th.  But, again...forget the rankings.  Take a look at the names.  How many of the guys I just listed were All-SEC, drafted into the NFL, hold Arkansas records of one sort or another, or were at the very least multiple year starters...some of them on very good teams?

Don't forget Herndon- who started about 5 games this year at WR for the Chargers.  All told- 9 of those players on that 2012 team that won 4 games have actually STARTED games in the NFL

RB- Knile (KC), Dennis Johnson (Houston)
FB- Small (Cleveland)
WR- Herndon (San Diego)
TE- Gragg (Buffalo)
OL- Bailey (Seattle), Swanson (Det)
DL- Smith (Jax)
K- Hocker (Saints and Rams)

5 of those guys played on Bielema's first team in 2013 that won 3 games- Small, Herndon, Swanson, Smith and Hocker

[Pork Twain]

Fair enough but he honored their commitments he has to be responsible for the retention rate there IMO. Retention overall has been pretty good, and you need some attrition because you are not going to hit on every player. Not every player you evaluate is really going to be an SEC player. I would say so far I will give the staff a C on retention, if I were in that position, my belief is if one of my players (position coach) had continuous non-criminal outside or locker room issues that I couldn't coach them up on, I have failed to do my job appropriately! The LB's and WR's we have dismissed are a failure of their position coaches IMO as much as it is the players.

That is not really the case.  Anyone that has stepped into a leadership position from the outside will realize this.  It is not in your best interest to step in and clean the place out but as you are going along, those that are unwilling or unable to toe the line will be weeded out.  At best you would have to say the players lost in the transitional phase are on both coaches.