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A-Rod Walks out of Grievance Hearing

Started by Jackrabbit Hog, November 20, 2013, 11:57:50 am

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Jackrabbit Hog

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10005806/alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-walks-own-grievance-hearing-says-disgusted

I am not a fan of Alex Rodriguez, never have been.  Always felt he was a prima donna with a me-first attitude and ultimately, as we learned a few years ago, a cheater.  So I've got no love for the guy at all.  But..........

The more this Biogenesis stuff drags on, the more we read about it, the more I'm thinking that MLB is treading on dangerous ground.  A-Rod may have bought and used from Biogenesis, but I think Bud Selig and MLB made the decision long ago that they were going to use this, come hell or high water, to get A-Rod out of baseball.  And I think that in the process of doing that, they have strong-armed and fabricated and paid people off.  It's hard to feel sorry for A-Rod, but MLB is doing a pretty good job of making itself out as the bad guy in this story.  The other day there was a story that the local police department in Florida that wanted to press charges against the Biogenesis guy was unable to do so because MLB had "bought" all of the important documents that were seized and were unwilling to share what they had with the local authorities.  Don't ask me how you "buy" evidence but that's the way it was portrayed in the story. 

It's beginning to sound like MLB has something to hide and is going to great lengths to hide it.  Sadly, it's not going to surprise me if this leads all the way up the chain to Selig.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

Wildhog

Selig should have been replaced a long time ago.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

 

jrulz83

I'm not a fan of any of them, but any time you "storm out" or make a scene like he did; you look bad. There is too much smoke around Rodriguez for him to not be guilty. I hate the grandstanding and righteous anger that they all try to get away with. I'm disgusted with all of the participants. It's a sad state of affairs.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 20, 2013, 03:48:44 pm
I'm not a fan of any of them, but any time you "storm out" or make a scene like he did; you look bad. There is too much smoke around Rodriguez for him to not be guilty. I hate the grandstanding and righteous anger that they all try to get away with. I'm disgusted with all of the participants. It's a sad state of affairs.

I don't think he is really trying to deny the fact that he is guilty. He is PO'd because of massive suspension that they are trying to lay on him. Although he has admitted to using before, he is technically a first time offender because he never failed any tests last time or had any evidence that directly linked him to PED's like he does now. Usually first time offenders get 50 games and they are trying to give him 200 which would end his career. That's why he is going after them because he says the punishment is unfair.

jrulz83

Quote from: clutch on November 20, 2013, 06:53:18 pm
I don't think he is really trying to deny the fact that he is guilty. He is PO'd because of massive suspension that they are trying to lay on him. Although he has admitted to using before, he is technically a first time offender because he never failed any tests last time or had any evidence that directly linked him to PED's like he does now. Usually first time offenders get 50 games and they are trying to give him 200 which would end his career. That's why he is going after them because he says the punishment is unfair.

Storming out makes him look like a petulant child. If what he is accused of is true, he deserves everything he gets. The fact that his camp leaked documents implicating Ryan Braun in an effort to draw attention away from himself is truly mind boggling and demonstrates the length and depth he was willing to go to cover up his involvement. He is a piece of excrement.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 20, 2013, 07:22:13 pm
Storming out makes him look like a petulant child. If what he is accused of is true, he deserves everything he gets. The fact that his camp leaked documents implicating Ryan Braun in an effort to draw attention away from himself is truly mind boggling and demonstrates the length and depth he was willing to go to cover up his involvement. He is a piece of excrement.

Yeah he is, but I still don't think he deserves more punishment just because he is a bigger name. The punishment should be the same for all. That's why they set up the guidelines, to keep the punishments even for all. Braun's a POS too so I have a really hard time feeling bad for him either. Anyone that ruins an average working man's life to save his own tail deserves for his story to leak out. Even ARod didn't stoop that low. He just allegedly leaked stuff about other players who were actually cheating too. Trashing the names of civilians who had nothing to do with it is a whole new level of A-hole.

jrulz83

Quote from: clutch on November 20, 2013, 09:38:26 pm
Yeah he is, but I still don't think he deserves more punishment just because he is a bigger name. The punishment should be the same for all. That's why they set up the guidelines, to keep the punishments even for all. Braun's a POS too so I have a really hard time feeling bad for him either. Anyone that ruins an average working man's life to save his own tail deserves for his story to leak out. Even ARod didn't stoop that low. He just allegedly leaked stuff about other players who were actually cheating too. Trashing the names of civilians who had nothing to do with it is a whole new level of A-hole.

The punishment should depend on what they can prove that he did; nothing else matters. I just wish people wouldn't lie about using, it just makes their situation worse.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 20, 2013, 11:05:05 pm
The punishment should depend on what they can prove that he did; nothing else matters. I just wish people wouldn't lie about using, it just makes their situation worse.

Exactly, but it should be even across the league. It's supposed to be. If they prove you used..... 50 games the first time, 100 the second.

That's what he's fighting. His first time getting actually caught and they give him 200. It's clear they are trying to be tougher on him than anyone else.

jrulz83

Quote from: clutch on November 21, 2013, 06:44:38 am
Exactly, but it should be even across the league. It's supposed to be. If they prove you used..... 50 games the first time, 100 the second.

That's what he's fighting. His first time getting actually caught and they give him 200. It's clear they are trying to be tougher on him than anyone else.

Maybe they have proof of him using multiple times on multiple occasions or for multiple years. If proven that he did, you don't think that leaking documents to implicate other players (only after he is caught) and recruiting other players to use the the stuff doesn't deserve more punishment than the guy who is just shooting himself up?

There is a problem with our society (and I am as guilty as anyone of this), we all know how laws and rules should be interpreted even though we know nearly none of the details of the case against somebody or even the laws or rules that the accused failed to abide by. Then when a jury or arbitrator or whatever makes a decision based on the evidence that has been presented and studied for weeks or perhaps months that we don't agree with, we get mad and say they made the wrong decision. Even though we as sideline viewers probably know <3% of the details of the case.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

superior_wang

A-Rod is  completely awful. They need to throw his sorry arse out in the street. Shameful.

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 21, 2013, 10:30:23 am
Maybe they have proof of him using multiple times on multiple occasions or for multiple years. If proven that he did, you don't think that leaking documents to implicate other players (only after he is caught) and recruiting other players to use the the stuff doesn't deserve more punishment than the guy who is just shooting himself up?

There is a problem with our society (and I am as guilty as anyone of this), we all know how laws and rules should be interpreted even though we know nearly none of the details of the case against somebody or even the laws or rules that the accused failed to abide by. Then when a jury or arbitrator or whatever makes a decision based on the evidence that has been presented and studied for weeks or perhaps months that we don't agree with, we get mad and say they made the wrong decision. Even though we as sideline viewers probably know <3% of the details of the case.

It hasn't been proven that he did leak all the stuff yet though. IF they prove it, then yes he should get in a little more trouble, but they can't just tack on an extra 150 games because they think he did something.

Name recognition shouldn't determine suspension length.

It really wouldn't matter if they had proof of him using multiple times or not. The fact that this is the first time they have caught him means he's a first time offender, even if he's been using for years.

Now I think he's been using since he was in Seattle, but that doesn't change the fact that he has still never failed a test and this is the actual first evidence they have that links him directly to use. I've even heard reports that maybe this evidence isn't as good as they once said.

Jackrabbit Hog

While I appreciate the varying opinions on A-Rod (pretty much unanimous that he's a scumbag), I want to reiterate my original point, which is that MLB may have crossed some dangerous lines in getting the A-Rod matter to where it is right now.  Put aside for the moment whether he's guilty or not -- everyone believes he is -- and just focus on the vendetta that MLB has been on regarding him. 

My personal belief is that Bud Selig is incompetent at best, recklessly borderline criminal at worst.  I think at some point over the past few years he decided that A-Rod is a lying fraud and that he needed to be tossed from baseball, regardless of what had to be done to accomplish that.  In the course of getting dirt on him, MLB did some things that it shouldn't have done and is now in cover-up mode and trying to out-lawyer A-Rod.  MLB may get away with it, but I think Selig will ultimately be judged as a commissioner that did far more harm to the game than good.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

jrulz83

Quote from: clutch on November 21, 2013, 01:15:30 pm
It hasn't been proven that he did leak all the stuff yet though. IF they prove it, then yes he should get in a little more trouble, but they can't just tack on an extra 150 games because they think he did something.

Name recognition shouldn't determine suspension length.

It really wouldn't matter if they had proof of him using multiple times or not. The fact that this is the first time they have caught him means he's a first time offender, even if he's been using for years.

Now I think he's been using since he was in Seattle, but that doesn't change the fact that he has still never failed a test and this is the actual first evidence they have that links him directly to use. I've even heard reports that maybe this evidence isn't as good as they once said.

Did the arbitrator say the evidence was weak? Or was it Buster Olney? That's my point, the media has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to evidence of guilt or innocence. I really don't believe MLB would punish him so severely just because he is Alex Rodriguez or without compelling evidence. Show me the link for Selig to have a vendetta? Where is it? Would you be willing to risk the backlash if you punished him unfairly?
Conspiracy theories make me want to:  :puke:
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

 

pigture perfect

I can't find the link, but what I read was that A-roids suspension was based on his efforts to cover up his results. It was also based on an under the table handshake supposedly with some very organized mostly Italian gentlemen from New York, who could help suppress evidence.

That's my remembrance of it anyway.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

superior_wang

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on November 21, 2013, 01:33:46 pm
While I appreciate the varying opinions on A-Rod (pretty much unanimous that he's a scumbag), I want to reiterate my original point, which is that MLB may have crossed some dangerous lines in getting the A-Rod matter to where it is right now.  Put aside for the moment whether he's guilty or not -- everyone believes he is -- and just focus on the vendetta that MLB has been on regarding him. 

My personal belief is that Bud Selig is incompetent at best, recklessly borderline criminal at worst.  I think at some point over the past few years he decided that A-Rod is a lying fraud and that he needed to be tossed from baseball, regardless of what had to be done to accomplish that.  In the course of getting dirt on him, MLB did some things that it shouldn't have done and is now in cover-up mode and trying to out-lawyer A-Rod.  MLB may get away with it, but I think Selig will ultimately be judged as a commissioner that did far more harm to the game than good.

I agree Bug Selig is pretty shady as well.. but doenst come near (in my opinion) being  a bodafide gangster that David Stern is/was.

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 21, 2013, 01:58:50 pm
Did the arbitrator say the evidence was weak? Or was it Buster Olney? That's my point, the media has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to evidence of guilt or innocence. I really don't believe MLB would punish him so severely just because he is Alex Rodriguez or without compelling evidence. Show me the link for Selig to have a vendetta? Where is it? Would you be willing to risk the backlash if you punished him unfairly?
Conspiracy theories make me want to:  :puke:

I don't remember where I heard it. But the argument was how if they MLB had everything that they are supposed to have, ARod wouldn't be fighting to get completely off the hook. His lawyers would have just worked out the best deal he could possibly get. It made a lot of sense to me. I dang sure know I wouldn't be trying to take something to supreme court if somebody had me nailed down like they supposedly do. I'd be accepting the best deal I could get.

I think Selig realizes that his legacy has a very unfavorable view. There's only 1 way that he could possibly change that and that is to nail a big fish and get him kicked out of the game. If he doesn't, oh well, it's not really going to hurt his popularity any since he doesn't have any to begin with. I think he's willing to do whatever to make it happen too. I think Braun got lucky because if it weren't for there being at least some evidence against ARod, he would have been the one Selig was trying to rid the game of.

I don't really know. There's been stuff that seems shady and shaky evidence from both sides in this. I don't really care about ARod either way, but I do think the MLB is coming down awfully heavy handed on him. I just think the punishments should be the same for everyone.

More than likely ARod did most of the stuff. I just don't hate the guy and have a clouded view of him so I can see where his complaints are coming from.

Honestly, I don't hate any of the steroid users. I think it's all overplayed anyways. The only thing I hate about it is that it has ruined the name of baseball, but that is 100% baseball's fault though. They knew for so long that it was going on and turned a blind eye to it because it was so good for the game when the media wasn't reporting on it. It was such a loose secret that it was bound to come out and when it did it was too late to clean up. I'd be willing to bet anything that steroids are FAR more prevalent in the NFL. In baseball steroids give you a few extra homeruns a year or a few MPH bump in your fastball. In the NFL they make much more of a difference.

jrulz83

They had Braun nailed and he lied. The natural defense of these guys is to lie in the face of overwhelming evidence. I don't believe any of them, Selig included. I only believe facts. Since I'm not privy to the facts I can believe none of them.

A wise man named John Adams once penned: Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

ucahogfan

A-Rod came out today and pretty much said he would probably not contest any suspension of 100 games or shorter.  That tells me the MLB must have a mountain of evidence that A-Rod in fact did use PEDs.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10270220/alex-rodriguez-discussed-accepting-lesser-suspension-source-says

jrulz83

Quote from: ucahogfan on January 09, 2014, 07:27:49 pm
A-Rod came out today and pretty much said he would probably not contest any suspension of 100 games or shorter.  That tells me the MLB must have a mountain of evidence that A-Rod in fact did use PEDs.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10270220/alex-rodriguez-discussed-accepting-lesser-suspension-source-says

Nah, he called Selig's wife fat and it made Bud mad. That's why MLB is going after him. It couldn't be that he actually used.....A-Rod lied when he said he didn't use? I'm:
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

superior_wang

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 10, 2014, 11:03:59 am
Nah, he called Selig's wife fat and it made Bud mad. That's why MLB is going after him. It couldn't be that he actually used.....A-Rod lied when he said he didn't use? I'm:


not sure which nickname i prefer for him, A Roid or A Fraud... both are correct.

jrulz83

Quote from: superior_wang on January 10, 2014, 12:09:23 pm
not sure which nickname i prefer for him, A Roid or A Fraud... both are correct.

I just call him: A liar

Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

pigture perfect

The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

jrulz83

His suspension has been reduced to 162 games including 2014 postseason. A-rod claims innocence and vows to fight it in Federal Court. Heaven help us all...
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

hog.goblin

Both A-Rod and Selig need to go down over this.

 

AF74Razorback

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on November 20, 2013, 11:57:50 am
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10005806/alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-walks-own-grievance-hearing-says-disgusted

I am not a fan of Alex Rodriguez, never have been.  Always felt he was a prima donna with a me-first attitude and ultimately, as we learned a few years ago, a cheater.  So I've got no love for the guy at all.  But..........

The more this Biogenesis stuff drags on, the more we read about it, the more I'm thinking that MLB is treading on dangerous ground.  A-Rod may have bought and used from Biogenesis, but I think Bud Selig and MLB made the decision long ago that they were going to use this, come hell or high water, to get A-Rod out of baseball.  And I think that in the process of doing that, they have strong-armed and fabricated and paid people off.  It's hard to feel sorry for A-Rod, but MLB is doing a pretty good job of making itself out as the bad guy in this story.  The other day there was a story that the local police department in Florida that wanted to press charges against the Biogenesis guy was unable to do so because MLB had "bought" all of the important documents that were seized and were unwilling to share what they had with the local authorities.  Don't ask me how you "buy" evidence but that's the way it was portrayed in the story. 

It's beginning to sound like MLB has something to hide and is going to great lengths to hide it.  Sadly, it's not going to surprise me if this leads all the way up the chain to Selig.

Selig is responsible and so are the owners.   Do you really think that Braun's getting out of hot water was just a mistake?   And don't you think these same owners allowed the use due to the fact that steroids could possibly make them heal faster.

I also do not it think it is incidental the demise of the Oakland A's pitchers.   At one time they were pretty much invincible and now pretty average.  Two plus two does equal steroids.

So they (MLB) found it expedient to make Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro.   It may not be now but it will be soon or later and the full truth will come out.   The truth being most owners if not all knew about this and now they are doing damage control and Selig feigning outrage.    A-Rod should sue and lay the hammer on Bud 'Steroid'  Selig's head.

The Devil is in the details and the Devil used to own the Brewers and Braun just happened to play for them.
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 11, 2014, 11:06:47 pm
Selig is responsible and so are the owners.   Do you really think that Braun's getting out of hot water was just a mistake?   And don't you think these same owners allowed the use due to the fact that steroids could possibly make them heal faster.

I also do not it think it is incidental the demise of the Oakland A's pitchers.   At one time they were pretty much invincible and now pretty average.  Two plus two does equal steroids.

So they (MLB) found it expedient to make Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro.   It may not be now but it will be soon or later and the full truth will come out.   The truth being most owners if not all knew about this and now they are doing damage control and Selig feigning outrage.    A-Rod should sue and lay the hammer on Bud 'Steroid'  Selig's head.

The Devil is in the details and the Devil used to own the Brewers and Braun just happened to play for them.

I can easily see owners not knowing that players are using steroids. To throw out a blanket statement that they had to know is less than fair. I'm sure there are owners who had suspicions, but suspicion and proof are two very different things.

What would you do if you were an owner? Maybe you could follow the players home and check their medicine cabinets. Perhaps you could hire investigators to check on every person that players associate with. I know, you can lock them in a hotel all the time and only let them out when it's practice, work out, or game time.

Why do we have to turn everything into a UFO/Moon landing conspiracy that reaches to the highest levels of power? The fact is, the players are the ones responsible for what happens to their bodies and they're the ones that should be punished. Unless there is hard evidence that an owner encouraged or knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it, no owner or commissioner is going to have "the hammer" fall on them.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on November 20, 2013, 03:48:44 pm
I'm not a fan of any of them, but any time you "storm out" or make a scene like he did; you look bad. There is too much smoke around Rodriguez for him to not be guilty. I hate the grandstanding and righteous anger that they all try to get away with. I'm disgusted with all of the participants. It's a sad state of affairs.

If you feel as if you are right and you are getting older 162 games equal year.  MLB is covering their tracks while using others to deflect their blame.  It is true that there is a lot of people to hold accountable but I will be darned if people pile on A-Rod because it is a fad right now.

He is not MLB just another good player in the history of that great player.   Selig should be in jail and the owners in collusion but this time player reps are tarnished and fans lead down a prim rose path.   You will see eventually this clever ruse and by then the guilty may have passed or escaped judgment.   It is NOT A-Rod that matters most here.  It is the owners and scumbag commissioner.
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

superior_wang

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 11, 2014, 12:06:47 pm
His suspension has been reduced to 162 games including 2014 postseason. A-rod claims innocence and vows to fight it in Federal Court. Heaven help us all...

cant wait to see the 60 minutes interview tonight.

clutch

Quote from: superior_wang on January 12, 2014, 07:43:50 pm
cant wait to see the 60 minutes interview tonight.

I'm just shocked that A-Rod still has a blackberry.

clutch

I somewhat agree that the players are getting the short end of the stick here, not completely though. Ultimately, it is on the players for using. However, you will never convince me that MLB didn't have suspicions of what was happening YEARS ago. Guys started blowing up and their numbers went through the roof. Looking back, it was pretty obvious. MLB didn't want to stop it at the time because it was bringing the game back. The strike hurt badly, the long balls were putting baseball back on the map. The money was rolling in and nobody was asking questions yet.

Then the inevitable happened. Those sacred records started being broken like glass in a hail storm and people wanted it to stop. Only then did baseball step in and start implementing drug testing policies that may actually catch somebody doing something.

Eventually the same thing will happen to the NFL. PED's are and have been widely used in professional sports for a long, long time. I don't blame the guys at all. I'd gladly risk a 100 game suspension for a $100-$200 million contract.

jrulz83

MLB did what every organization in America would have done in dealing with the steroid issue....let the good times roll until somebody starts yelling about it.

Like I've said before suspicion is not proof. A-rod is getting hammered because there is proof of him using. All the people who accepted the suspension did so because there was proof of them using. Suspicion does not mean guilt. Neither do gut feelings, dislike of someone, or anything else. Provable facts are what determines guilt or innocence.

Suspicions should have been followed up on years ago, but they weren't. Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking at what should have been done accomplishes nothing. Taking care of proven users like A-rod and Braun is the first step in cleaning it all up, even if it is late. I'm hoping for lifetime bans if someone knowingly and deceptively uses steroids, but I know I won't get it.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 12, 2014, 10:15:49 pm
MLB did what every organization in America would have done in dealing with the steroid issue....let the good times roll until somebody starts yelling about it.

Like I've said before suspicion is not proof. A-rod is getting hammered because there is proof of him using. All the people who accepted the suspension did so because there was proof of them using. Suspicion does not mean guilt. Neither do gut feelings, dislike of someone, or anything else. Provable facts are what determines guilt or innocence.

Suspicions should have been followed up on years ago, but they weren't. Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking at what should have been done accomplishes nothing. Taking care of proven users like A-rod and Braun is the first step in cleaning it all up, even if it is late. I'm hoping for lifetime bans if someone knowingly and deceptively uses steroids, but I know I won't get it.


That is a flawed take in that those who knew what was going on let others take the fall.  I believe that is throwing others under the bus is what happened.   The pretend commissioner pretended that he and the owners did not know and everyone was giving each other winks.   So in essence the ones who got caught were more honorable and for that they get excluded from the Hall of Fame.   And do not think for a moment I am happy about the distorted and inflated numbers.
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 12, 2014, 11:23:18 pm

That is a flawed take in that those who knew what was going on let others take the fall.  I believe that is throwing others under the bus is what happened.   The pretend commissioner pretended that he and the owners did not know and everyone was giving each other winks.   So in essence the ones who got caught were more honorable and for that they get excluded from the Hall of Fame.   And do not think for a moment I am happy about the distorted and inflated numbers.

I guess our entire criminal justice system is a flawed take then.... So the guy who knowingly and deceptively broke the established rules by shoving a needle full of steroids into his butt is honorable?? That seems like flawed logic to me.... Why would they (owners and commissioner) have to know it was going on? Convince me why they had to know, show me proof of it.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 11:00:09 am
I guess our entire criminal justice system is a flawed take then.... So the guy who knowingly and deceptively broke the established rules by shoving a needle full of steroids into his butt is honorable?? That seems like flawed logic to me.... Why would they (owners and commissioner) have to know it was going on? Convince me why they had to know, show me proof of it.

I never said honorable.  What I did say that many players, most of the managers/owners and the trainers did.   And the commissioner.  So many people are piling on A-Rod because he attracts that.   Resentment over the contracts and blindly following the media off a cliff.

The media at large does not care for baseball, football or anyone sport and they certainly do not care about the players.  This while the Commissioner makes himself out as shocked but you know these owners have a vested interest in getting butts on the field.  Afterall they are not paying them to sit on the bench.

Do you let news media dictate what you think is true?  For the life of me what is with all this hate?  Moreover where is the sadness and outrage over players like Ken Caminiti?
He was using and he died?  Did he deserve it or it this not about steroids at all?

Rather than just acknowledge what it is and moving on and trying to fix the problem you have people trying to find a way to get over even now.   These contracts are so large that cheating in encouraged if it puts fans in the seats and increases their bottom-line.  The only other time is when litigation is threatened.

Selig is just trying to save his own butt.   
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 13, 2014, 12:42:21 pm
I never said honorable.  What I did say that many players, most of the managers/owners and the trainers did.   And the commissioner.  So many people are piling on A-Rod because he attracts that.   Resentment over the contracts and blindly following the media off a cliff.

The media at large does not care for baseball, football or anyone sport and they certainly do not care about the players.  This while the Commissioner makes himself out as shocked but you know these owners have a vested interest in getting butts on the field.  Afterall they are not paying them to sit on the bench.

Do you let news media dictate what you think is true?  For the life of me what is with all this hate?  Moreover where is the sadness and outrage over players like Ken Caminiti?
He was using and he died?  Did he deserve it or it this not about steroids at all?

Rather than just acknowledge what it is and moving on and trying to fix the problem you have people trying to find a way to get over even now.   These contracts are so large that cheating in encouraged if it puts fans in the seats and increases their bottom-line.  The only other time is when litigation is threatened.

Selig is just trying to save his own butt.

I'm not totally dependent on the media to form my opinions of truth. I don't only believe what Keith Olberman, Peter Gammons, Buster Olney, and Rachel Maddow tell me is the truth. I depend on the Klaus Kinski voice in my head a lot too.

Did I not write in an earlier post that I'm disgusted with all of the participants in this mess that is steroids in baseball? (That's Klaus talking)

Should suspicions have been followed up on? Most definitely. Were they? No, they were not. But speaking in past tense and saying everybody knew it was going on is not going to accomplish anything. Taking down known and proven users and encouragers of use is the only way to make this mess better. I don't care if Selig is only concerned about his legacy or whatever,  at least something is getting done to stop it. If it's proven that Selig performed some malfeasance, then he and anybody else that did should get whacked.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 02:47:11 pm
I'm not totally dependent on the media to form my opinions of truth. I don't only believe what Keith Olberman, Peter Gammons, Buster Olney, and Rachel Maddow tell me is the truth. I depend on the Klaus Kinski voice in my head a lot too.

Did I not write in an earlier post that I'm disgusted with all of the participants in this mess that is steroids in baseball? (That's Klaus talking)

Should suspicions have been followed up on? Most definitely. Were they? No, they were not. But speaking in past tense and saying everybody knew it was going on is not going to accomplish anything. Taking down known and proven users and encouragers of use is the only way to make this mess better. I don't care if Selig is only concerned about his legacy or whatever,  at least something is getting done to stop it. If it's proven that Selig performed some malfeasance, then he and anybody else that did should get whacked.

Yeah but it sounds like Olber chat from here.   What do you care more about the game or the gossip.   And holding A-Rod responsible as a kind of sacrificial lamb.   It may make you feel good but steroids will still be there and so will people like Braun.  Yeah what about Braun?    You must be a Milwaukee fan.   Your position is poorly imagined because you seem to follow the flow.   Your outside sources are what?   Were you there when your sources weighed in?
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 13, 2014, 03:24:23 pm
Yeah but it sounds like Olber chat from here.   What do you care more about the game or the gossip.   And holding A-Rod responsible as a kind of sacrificial lamb.   It may make you feel good but steroids will still be there and so will people like Braun.  Yeah what about Braun?    You must be a Milwaukee fan.   Your position is poorly imagined because you seem to follow the flow.   Your outside sources are what?   Were you there when your sources weighed in?

I believe your position is ill conceived because there has been no evidence come to light that MLB or the owners did anything illegal or against the rules.

Braun got what MLB thought the evidence deserved. I'm a huge Milwaukee fan, that's why Stan Musial is in my avatar. That's why I post in the Redbird Rundown a little bit, because I'm a Milwaukee fan.

I have, to say the gossip is grand. So yeah, I love the gossip more than a game I devoted 1/3 of my life to playing and my entire life to watching. Yeah, definitely.

Look, I've said what I think about this mess and tried to state my thoughts clearly, but evidently I have failed. So, one more time. Anybody proven to have used, encouraged use, or covered use up should get whacked. I hope that is clear enough.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 04:10:48 pm
I believe your position is ill conceived because there has been no evidence come to light that MLB or the owners did anything illegal or against the rules.

Braun got what MLB thought the evidence deserved. I'm a huge Milwaukee fan, that's why Stan Musial is in my avatar. That's why I post in the Redbird Rundown a little bit, because I'm a Milwaukee fan.

I have, to say the gossip is grand. So yeah, I love the gossip more than a game I devoted 1/3 of my life to playing and my entire life to watching. Yeah, definitely.

Look, I've said what I think about this mess and tried to state my thoughts clearly, but evidently I have failed. So, one more time. Anybody proven to have used, encouraged use, or covered use up should get whacked. I hope that is clear enough.

You are way too young and naïve to get it.   There was no proof with A-Rod at first and this IS the tip of the proverbial ice burg and you will be the last one to get it.  But hey, that's okay.   Woo Pig Sooie.
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 13, 2014, 04:16:10 pm
You are way too young and naïve to get it.   There was no proof with A-Rod at first and this IS the tip of the proverbial ice burg and you will be the last one to get it.  But hey, that's okay.   Woo Pig Sooie.

I agree, there wasn't proof with A-Rod at first but there was suspicion. Suspicion+
Investigation = Proof (sometimes)

Maybe you're way too old and jaded to get it  :) What is an ice burg anyway? I've heard of an iceberg, saw one at my first PG-13 movie; Titanic.......
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 04:28:42 pm
I agree, there wasn't proof with A-Rod at first but there was suspicion. Suspicion+
Investigation = Proof (sometimes)

Maybe you're way too old and jaded to get it  :) What is an ice burg anyway? I've heard of an iceberg, saw one at my first PG-13 movie; Titanic.......

FYI,  the was more than one Lassie.  Wow,  it has been quite a day for you.  Congrats!
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 13, 2014, 04:38:29 pm
FYI,  the was more than one Lassie.  Wow,  it has been quite a day for you.  Congrats!

Who's Lassie?
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

AF74Razorback

Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

jrulz83

Quote from: AF74Razorback on January 13, 2014, 05:11:05 pm
Exactly!!!   lol

How many dogs played Rin Tin Tin? How many horses played Trigger? How many times did somebody fall down a well on Lassie? Man I loved Flipper, he was faster than lightning.

Boy, Paladin was not somebody to mess with.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

superior_wang

I felt dirty just watching Arod on  60 minutes. Ew. Offing a guy because he rats you out to mlb and the feds? this will make a helluva movie one day.

superior_wang

Quote from: clutch on January 12, 2014, 08:12:55 pm
I'm just shocked that A-Rod still has a blackberry.

hahahahaha so true. last one in use apparently. +1

AF74Razorback

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 05:25:59 pm
How many dogs played Rin Tin Tin? How many horses played Trigger? How many times did somebody fall down a well on Lassie? Man I loved Flipper, he was faster than lightning.

Boy, Paladin was not somebody to mess with.

Yeah Paladin was good.  Have gun will Travel.
Love the Razorbacks and disdain fair weather fans.

clutch

Quote from: superior_wang on January 13, 2014, 05:46:54 pm
I felt dirty just watching Arod on  60 minutes. Ew. Offing a guy because he rats you out to mlb and the feds? this will make a helluva movie one day.

I didn't believe that part for a minute. I believe that Bosch injected A-Rod with a lot of illegal things. I believe that A-Rod offered him hush money. I believe A-Rod tried to buy documents from him, etc. etc.. But at the end of the day, Bosch is still a liar too. He lied at first to try to save himself. Once he was offered a sweet deal to avoid getting in trouble he started coming clean, but I believe he is exaggerating his story. This is baseball, not scareface. A-Rod is not dumb enough to have somebody killed or threatened to be killed over something that has a very likely probability of coming back on him. 

clutch

Quote from: jrulz83 on January 13, 2014, 04:10:48 pm
I believe your position is ill conceived because there has been no evidence come to light that MLB or the owners did anything illegal or against the rules.

Braun got what MLB thought the evidence deserved. I'm a huge Milwaukee fan, that's why Stan Musial is in my avatar. That's why I post in the Redbird Rundown a little bit, because I'm a Milwaukee fan.

I have, to say the gossip is grand. So yeah, I love the gossip more than a game I devoted 1/3 of my life to playing and my entire life to watching. Yeah, definitely.

Look, I've said what I think about this mess and tried to state my thoughts clearly, but evidently I have failed. So, one more time. Anybody proven to have used, encouraged use, or covered use up should get whacked. I hope that is clear enough.

Really the owners and MLB couldn't have done anything illegal. As long as they weren't the ones supplying the steroids then they weren't doing anything illegal. I do believe they knew though. No doubt in my mind.

You have some of the best baseball minds in the world watching these players everyday. They watched them progress from high school to college to the minors to the pros. They have a very good idea what these players are going to turn out like. When they see a guy that doesn't hit the ball over the fence in the minors step up to the majors and start belting out 30 HR's a year like Bagwell  and Piazza then I bet they had a very good idea what was going on.

They didn't try to stop it because the money was rolling in and baseball was on it's way back up. These guys aren't stupid. There #1 job is to make money. As long as they could get away with doing nothing, they were going to.

I've even seen stories by writers that said it was pretty much common knowledge around clubhouses back in the days until records started falling. Nobody cared until then.

jrulz83

Quote from: clutch on January 13, 2014, 08:02:18 pm
Really the owners and MLB couldn't have done anything illegal. As long as they weren't the ones supplying the steroids then they weren't doing anything illegal. I do believe they knew though. No doubt in my mind.

You have some of the best baseball minds in the world watching these players everyday. They watched them progress from high school to college to the minors to the pros. They have a very good idea what these players are going to turn out like. When they see a guy that doesn't hit the ball over the fence in the minors step up to the majors and start belting out 30 HR's a year like Bagwell  and Piazza then I bet they had a very good idea what was going on.

They didn't try to stop it because the money was rolling in and baseball was on it's way back up. These guys aren't stupid. There #1 job is to make money. As long as they could get away with doing nothing, they were going to.

I've even seen stories by writers that said it was pretty much common knowledge around clubhouses back in the days until records started falling. Nobody cared until then.

Interesting article that argues new stadiums and expansion teams played a role in putting people in seats:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/13/loverro-baseballs-steroid-era-steeped-myths-and-li/?page=2

Not saying I completely agree, just a different opinion from the standard narrative.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

jrulz83

Lenin is cautiously optimistic.