Mr. SEC: "Is Bielema a Fish out of Water?"

[WilsonHog]

Everyone else is talking about it.

Let's see if we can talk about it without gutting each other.

http://www.mrsec.com/2013/11/arkansas-bielema-fish-water/

[ricepig]

 I think he may have under estimated our talent and how long it would take him to get his philosophy installed.

[hoglady]

I think he may have under estimated our talent and how long it would take him to get his philosophy installed.

How could he have underestimated something he didn't even look at.
Coach B himself said he NEVER watched any game film on these players. He didn't want that to influence his evaluation of the team. He never saw any of them play until spring practice.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Yes.

[PonderinHog]

I'm sure he's experienced some culture shock and after what his team has been through this season, one might draw the conclusion that he's the "Beached Tuna."

[hoglady]

Good article.
Sounds about right.

[Oliver]

I don't know if I buy the "isn't a good fit for the SEC" argument.  I think it has more to do with being able to build a program. 

They mentioned his lack of recruiting throughout his career.  That's a concern when you are building a program and not just sustaining one that was in great shape when you took it over.

[ricepig]

How could he have underestimated something he didn't even look at.
Coach B himself said he NEVER watched any game film on these players. He didn't want that to influence his evaluation of the team. He never saw any of them play until spring practice.

He didn't watch spring practice, we'll we do have a problem then.

[hoglady]

He didn't watch spring practice, we'll we do have a problem then.

I said he didn't watch any of them play UNTIL spring practice.
He specifically didn't want to be influenced by the game film.

[Pig Worshipper]

Thank you for posting the article. There wasn't much to disagree with in my opinion. I think it is going to take longer to rebuild than many of us hoped. It talks about Bielema not being a great recruiter at Wisconsin but he didn't have the staff that he has here at Arkansas - some of those guys are good recruiters. If we don't close well on this year's recruiting we're not going to see the type of improvement we need. We don't have to finish first or second (although I wouldn't object!) but we have to finish at least middle of the pack.

[Capt. Hamm]

I think coach B will be fine. He had his year to see what he really is up against.

[Fayettechill14]

People told John Harbaugh his philosophy would never work among the wide open offenses of the PAC-12. Lolz

[Fayettechill14]

I don't know if I buy the "isn't a good fit for the SEC" argument.  I think it has more to do with being able to build a program. 

They mentioned his lack of recruiting throughout his career.  That's a concern when you are building a program and not just sustaining one that was in great shape when you took it over.

Agreed. We've got some elite recruiters on staff, but head coach is the ultimate recruiter. That's gonna determine whether he succeeds or fails.

[ricepig]

I said he didn't watch any of them play UNTIL spring practice.
He specifically didn't want to be influenced by the game film.

Yeah, I read the paper and watch TV, too. I still thnk he under estimated our talent compared to other SEC teams coming into the season.

[Texman]

We may be a "team out of water".  Not sure we belong in the SEC - can't seem to compete.  Don't have a lot to show for all the years we have been here.

[redeye]

I think he may have under estimated our talent and how long it would take him to get his philosophy installed.

I don't think he under-estimated our talent, but I do think he may have under-estimated the difficulty in signing good talent at Arkansas. Or, he under-estimated the necessity of signing good talent to be competitive in the SEC.

Bielema has never signed great talent before and he may have thought that he could do wonders with the better talent he'd be able to sign at Arkansas. But I think he may have under-estimated the SEC as a conference and how he basically has his Ohio State game every week here.

[Athog]

No

[rude1]

Not surprising to me. I have had my doubts since the day the guy was hired about his fit here and translating what he wanted to do in the SEC. So far he has done nothing but confirm my worst fears.

[goodguytex]

IMHO I think Bielema assembled a great staff and they thought it would be easier to install and make successful their system than it has been. I think they had no idea in particulR our defense was as bad as it is. They now realize it, and they will I'm sure be trying all they can to sign some kids to get the job done.

[HogFanatic]

We'll just have to wait and see how he closes out this recruiting class.
Its all we can do at this point. He needs to land some good talent at several positions. LBs and DBs specifically. Another receiver or two wouldn't hurt either.

Man, and we were looking like Receiver U just a year ago.
Going into this season I thought we would STILL field an elite receiving corps.

[Oliver]

Agreed. We've got some elite recruiters on staff, but head coach is the ultimate recruiter. That's gonna determine whether he succeeds or fails.

Also, Even though I don't agree with the fish out of water argument, I do think his record at Wisconsin was inflated by some bad Big 10 teams.  There aren't quite as many throw away SEC teams

[redeye]

In response to the article, I think it's just Bielema being Bielema. I can understand why someone may see him as a fish out of water, but I don't think it's accurate. He's an outspoken guy and we know that from his comments at Wisconsin. Once he starts winning, no one will ask this anymore, just as they don't with Saban and Miles.

Btw, I remember that 1990 season and constantly hearing how it equaled the longest losing skid since '53. It was very odd, because we were not used to it, but we were also not playing top-25 teams every week. What did Auburn have last year? 10? 11? While Auburn may win bigger, they also lose bigger then we do.

[HSVhogfan]

Everyone else is talking about it.

Let's see if we can talk about it without gutting each other.

http://www.mrsec.com/2013/11/arkansas-bielema-fish-water/

There is one thing I would like some input on when it comes to coaching styles and "systems".

I spent most of my career making personnel decisions for a very large company. Just as in coaching styles there a many different management styles, and all, if implemented properly can be successful. My staffs biggest obstacle when replacing an area manager, for example, was to maintain as much continuity and be as least disruptive to the organization as is humanly possible. If someone was successful, but either retired, or had to be termed for a Petrino type incident, we always tried to go out of our way to hire someone who's style was very close to the person we were replacing. If someone was a quality person, but simply failed, we would look in a totally opposite direction.

It does not seem like the BOT, chancellor, or AD really did not do their due diligence in trying to match a coaching style with the talent already on campus.

I do not think Brett will ultimately be successful with the "smash mouth style" because of the recruiting challenges here at AR. Ultimately though, when a department head fails, the blame usually has many different layers that are not seen right away.

[Blue35]

No, he is definitely not a "fish out of water".  I think that he is quite competent and the proof will be how well he recruits.

Watching that game Saturday and the slow footed secondary, it is a wonder that ole piss did not score 55 on us. In all probability it will take three years to get competitive again.

[The Boar War]

I don't want this little nugget to go unnoticed.

Did the author say it was "way too early", "way, way too early" or "way, way, way too early" to judge this as a bad hire?

[redeye]

I don't want this little nugget to go unnoticed.

Did the author say it was "way too early", "way, way too early" or "way, way, way too early" to judge this as a bad hire?

It's never too early for hogville. I'm gonna cry if they run off Bielema and he wins a national championship elsewhere, as Holtz did.

[swinesation]

Eh, they're just looking to drive up traffic on their site if you ask me.

[scottwillrazbackfan1]

I don't think he under-estimated our talent, but I do think he may have under-estimated the difficulty in signing good talent at Arkansas. Or, he under-estimated the necessity of signing good talent to be competitive in the SEC.

Bielema has never signed great talent before and he may have thought that he could do wonders with the better talent he'd be able to sign at Arkansas. But I think he may have under-estimated the SEC as a conference and how he basically has his Ohio State game every week here.

I agree with your take on this. I truly believe BB is a good coach, but I think he underestimated the difficulty of recruiting to Arkansas . If I'm not mistaken the big time recruits we finished with last jan-February he was already in on at whiskey . Relationships where previously develop. Now comes the tough part recruiting on merit as a U of A coach.

[Pork Twain]

Any coach would look bad this year and maybe next with the amount of talent we have.

[Hogarusa]

It does not seem like the BOT, chancellor, or AD really did not do their due diligence in trying to match a coaching style with the talent already on campus.


You shouldn't need to as that talent will all be gone in 2-3 years

[bigbadhog]

Pretty much the concerns I have had since his hiring leaked last December.  I am still in shock from the hire.  Horrible fit to our situation...  BBH

[WilsonHog]

You people keep screwing up a thread I started, and I'll ban every one of you tonight.

[adave]

Pretty much the concerns I have had since his hiring leaked last December.  I am still in shock from the hire.  Horrible fit to our situation...  BBH

This guy definitely has sources. Smite me up bro.

[redeye]

Pretty much the concerns I have had since his hiring leaked last December.  I am still in shock from the hire.  Horrible fit to our situation...  BBH

You're really going to be miserable when he starts winning.

[bigbadhog]

You're really going to be miserable when he starts winning.

I am a lifelong Hog fan, why would I be miserable?  Sorry, we apparently don't agree but both are respectable opinions with merit.   

[WayneHawg]

We may be a "team out of water".  Not sure we belong in the SEC - can't seem to compete.  Don't have a lot to show for all the years we have been here.

The SECIs a great conference but we should have been in the Big 8 or Big 12(that only has 10 teams) from the time we moved from the Swc

[batesvillepharmer]

I think the article focuses on irrelavencies. I don't see what BB popping off at media days etc has to do with his potential as a coach. spurrier wasn't a good "fit" in the old SEC in his Florida days with his brash attitude and run up the score approach. It's about wins and losses period, and the jury is still out.

[bphi11ips]

There is one thing I would like some input on when it comes to coaching styles and "systems".

I spent most of my career making personnel decisions for a very large company. Just as in coaching styles there a many different management styles, and all, if implemented properly can be successful. My staffs biggest obstacle when replacing an area manager, for example, was to maintain as much continuity and be as least disruptive to the organization as is humanly possible. If someone was successful, but either retired, or had to be termed for a Petrino type incident, we always tried to go out of our way to hire someone who's style was very close to the person we were replacing. If someone was a quality person, but simply failed, we would look in a totally opposite direction.

It does not seem like the BOT, chancellor, or AD really did not do their due diligence in trying to match a coaching style with the talent already on campus.

I do not think Brett will ultimately be successful with the "smash mouth style" because of the recruiting challenges here at AR. Ultimately though, when a department head fails, the blame usually has many different layers that are not seen right away.

Understand your point, but trying to match styles is how we got Jack Crowe.  No thanks.

[WayneHawg]

We also should've hired ole Gus,he would have been the more natural fit.

[grayhawg]

Bottom line he seems like a fish out of water alright, BUT is he smart enough to overcome it.

He just might be.

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[Piggfoot]

I said he didn't watch any of them play UNTIL spring practice.
He specifically didn't want to be influenced by the game film.

After he saw them do you not think he knew he was in trouble? What was he to do say I made a mistake--we're in trouble. As a coach his only option was to be positive and coach them as best he could -- hoping they would improve over the previous year.

[Ramtough]

I think a good coach wins some of the toss up games. In some games we didn't even compete and in some of the games we thought we might win like Rutgers, Ole Miss, and Auburn we got beat. We really haven't played well all year and don't seem to be getting better. In my opinion BB has not coached us up all year and thats concerning.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I'm now living for the first Wednesday in February.  It's become priority #1. 

[avatar]

I think the article focuses on irrelavencies. I don't see what BB popping off at media days etc has to do with his potential as a coach. spurrier wasn't a good "fit" in the old SEC in his Florida days with his brash attitude and run up the score approach. It's about wins and losses period, and the jury is still out.

the jury may be out but the judge is getting antsy
and the executioner is lubricating the gallows

[WilsonHog]

I think a good coach wins some of the toss up games. In some games we didn't even compete and in some of the games we thought we might win like Rutgers, Ole Miss, and Auburn we got beat. We really haven't played well all year and don't seem to be getting better. In my opinion BB has not coached us up all year and thats concerning.

You don't believe we've improved offensively the last two weeks?

[avatar]

if people are counting on recruiting forget it. we are ranked in the mid thirties with 7 left.
honestly if you were a recruit and had an offer from another sec school (other than kentucky) why in the world would you come here?

[avatar]

You don't believe we've improved offensively the last two weeks?

no

[WilsonHog]

no

Well, let's compare the last four games, in order:

First Downs: 6-16-25-22

Total yards: 235-256-346-389

Yards Passing: 30-91-124-193

Yards Rushing: 205-165-222-196

[56Hog]

Mr. SEC's basic argument for the fish out of water theory is that he is thin skinned.

That Bielema is not.  But he is not the least bit bothered at stirring things up, whether inadvertently or with cause.  Most of the time it's fights he's picked.

The argument that he didn't look at game tape is an exaggeration.  What he's done is let all the underclassmen on this year's team make or fail to make the case as to whether or not they will be on the team next year.

Bottom line, when you watch the way he acts and listen carefully to what he says you can tell the wheels are turning all the time.

He jumped in a year ago not knowing what he had on his team or his opposition but only a fool thinks he doesn't know a heck of a lot more about both a year later.

In that way he's different than any other coach who's walked the sideline in the SEC era.  But not very many probably ever felt secure enough in their job and themselves to let expectations be driven down this far. 

[Piggfoot]

I don't think Bielema is a fish out of water nor do I believe Long is a poor administrator. I think both are professional and both knew what our problems were and what we would have to do to correct them. The first step was Long's finding Bielema and convincing him to come here and build a great staff. That was done last year. The coaches are paid fairly to start building the program. A few recruits were added and they are some of our better players. We just don't have enough.
Now Bielema had to be positive even if he knew he was going to get his butt dusted. What else could he say to the boys and public. Ash told people we had a long way to go. People didn't listen. Now they are angry. We won't win six. We've won what I think we would have except for Rutgers and Ole Miss. Allen's injury hurt us very badly we lost his services and he and the team lost valuable practice time.
Please do not  say we should have kept Mitchell. He wanted to start and that wasn't going to happen even if Petrino was here. So just dont start with that argument.