Jimmies and Joes

[online-with-swine]

This is our biggest issue.  We need someone who is an outstanding recruiter.  Who is that person going to be?

Gus has been landing top 10 classes at Auburn but the school sits right in the middle of some of the countries most fertile recruiting territory.  We are fairly far removed from that area.  Can he pull people from there or will he need to build connections in Texas?  Can his classes compare to what he has been able to get at Auburn?  Ever?

Norvell is recruiting at a crazy level for Memphis......for Memphis.   Can he improve on that here?  I'm sure it would be better but by how much?  He is a young and energetic coach, who by all reports, is a great recruiter.  He also has some experience in Texas but is it enough?

Leach is not known as a recruiter but wins with what he gets.  Would his reputation and contacts in Texas open doors for better athletes?   This is perhaps our biggest recruiting area that we can potentially cull athletes from.  Still, Leach is not known as a great recruiter while at Texas Tech but how much of that was trying to recruit to a place like Lubbock.  Face it, Fayetteville blows that city out of the water.  Would he be better here and would it be enough to constantly compete in the SEC?

[JONAS]

I agree.  We need someone who can recruit.  I say give Norvell a shot.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Nobody can recruit to west texas, baw.

Leach would do great here in recruiting and just his Texas ties alone would bump us to around ~20 national class averages.

And Norvell is FROM Texas, btw. Not he has "some experience in Texas". Dude IS A texan.

[Smashmouth2004]

You want recruiting? Hire Kiffin! Recruits will be calling him instead of us trying to get visits from recruits. Leach is another clown!

[Pig in the Pokey]

You want recruiting? Hire Kiffin! Recruits will be calling him instead of us trying to get visits from recruits.

THIS

[TX HOG]

You want recruiting? Hire Kiffin! Recruits will be calling him instead of us trying to get visits from recruits. Leach is another clown!

I believe this is true as well

[TX HOG]

The plublicity would be free and instant recruiting

[online-with-swine]

Big question with Kiffin, has he matured?  If yes, then bring him on.  But do we want to risk that?

[lumphog]

Nobody can recruit to west texas, baw.

Leach would do great here in recruiting and just his Texas ties alone would bump us to around ~20 national class averages.

And Norvell is FROM Texas, btw. Not he has "some experience in Texas". Dude IS A texan.

ANOTHER thought on Norvell... He is from Texas and has ties, BUT... with Ole Miss knee deep in their mess, and Norvell's Memphis ties, THAT OPENS the door for Arkansas to get a foot back into Memphis. We should hit Memphis HARD!!!! and Texas

[online-with-swine]

That's a good point.  Maybe expand our recruiting a bit.  My fear would be Mullen at MSU or Tenn stepping in there as well.

[ChicoHog]

Everyone talks about recruiting Texas and I think that's great for offensive players but what about defense?  Only TCU and maybe Texas plays defense in the Big 12 (although Iowa St was much improved this year-kudos to Campbell and his staff).  For defense I think you need to recruit Lousiana, Florida, Georgia and supplement with Texas.  The SEC is a line of scrimmage league and those big nasty D lineman are found more in the south east than in Texas where all the high schools play finesse football. 

[lakecityhog]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=648396.0

It ain't really Jimmies and Joes, it is Sabans, Meyers, Stoops, Petrinos and Oklahoma, Alabama, Michigan, LSU and other high profile teams have all gone thru bad seasons/ bad DECADES and it wasn't a lack of talent. Once those teams found the right guy the talent played up to expectations and in some cases better.

[lumphog]

That’s a good point.  Maybe expand our recruiting a bit.  My fear would be Mullen at MSU or Tenn stepping in there as well.

We use too.... recruit Memphis & get some gooduns outa there, I don't understand why we don't now, it should be a priority. There are a lot of Hog fans in Memphis

[oldman1015]

Nobody can recruit to west texas, baw.

Leach would do great here in recruiting and just his Texas ties alone would bump us to around ~20 national class averages.

And Norvell is FROM Texas, btw. Not he has "some experience in Texas". Dude IS A texan.

Why didn't he use all this at Texas Tech? I'm all for gambling on Norvell.

[ChicoHog]

Why didn't he use all this at Texas Tech? I'm all for gambling on Norvell.

Because Leach is not a good recruiter.  He does find the "diamonds in the rough" and is similar to Petrino in that he can get guys that fit his system but he will not get you to the next level with the higher quality athletes.  And until this year he has never had a very good defense. 

[ChicoHog]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=648396.0

It ain't really Jimmies and Joes, it is Sabans, Meyers, Stoops, Petrinos and Oklahoma, Alabama, Michigan, LSU and other high profile teams have all gone thru bad seasons/ bad DECADES and it wasn't a lack of talent. Once those teams found the right guy the talent played up to expectations and in some cases better.

Yes it is.  Saban and Meyer along with Swinney, Harbaugh and Franklin are the best recruiters in the country.  Kirby Smart may get there but of course he just started.  Stoops was a decent recruiter, Petrino not so much.  Why do you think Louisville is not as competitive now?  Because he has forgotten how to coach?  No, it's because he is not recruiting at an elite level. 

[JaketheSnake]

Someone on Finebaum (maybe Booger?) last week was talking about how you generally dont out-coach anyone in the SEC... you can only out-recruit.  While I do not believe that fully, it is mostly true.

[ChicoHog]

Someone on Finebaum (maybe Booger?) last week was talking about how you generally dont out-coach anyone in the SEC... you can only out-recruit.  While I do not believe that fully, it is mostly true.

You can out coach people in a game to game situation, especially if you have plenty of time prepare like bowl games, but over the long haul talent will win out. 

[lakecityhog]

So, you guys are telling me that Alabama, Oklahoma and LSU and Michigan went through a period of talent deficiencies? Mac didn't have talent in Florida the last 2 or 3 years? Texas has had a talent issue???

                                                 BS!!!

Saban hit Alabama in 2007 and went 7-4 the very next year he went 12-2 and then 14-0. I doubt that he had a 5 game swing with 1 recruiting class!
Stoops hit Oklahoma in 1999 and went 7-5 the very next year he went 13-0 on 1 recruiting class?? Yeah right, it was the Jimmies and Joes. Booger is right where he belongs, on TV not on the sidelines.

[JaketheSnake]

So, you guys are telling me that Alabama, Oklahoma and LSU and Michigan went through a period of talent deficiencies? Mac didn't have talent in Florida the last 2 or 3 years? Texas has had a talent issue???

                                                 BS!!!

Saban hit Alabama in 2007 and went 7-4 the very next year he went 12-2 and then 14-0. I doubt that he had a 5 game swing with 1 recruiting class!
Stoops hit Oklahoma in 1999 and went 7-5 the very next year he went 13-0 on 1 recruiting class?? Yeah right, it was the Jimmies and Joes. Booger is right where he belongs, on TV not on the sidelines.

It's  the mix... some people on here will say it's all coaching, which is not true.  Nor is it al recruiting.  At this level,
I'd say it's more recruiting than coaching, but one can not live without the other to be a successful program.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Why didn't he use all this at Texas Tech? I'm all for gambling on Norvell.

For Texas Tech, this was a pretty good turnaround. And, he did that with recruiting classes that weren't even ranked high enough to be noticed.

Year   Won   Lost
2009     9       4
2008    11      2
2007     9       4
2006     8       5
2005     9       3
2004     8       4
2003     8       5
2002     9       5
2001     7       5
2000     7       6

85-43 over 10 years.

The previous 10 years they were 62-53.

[lumphog]

I'd be very happy with Leach

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

The next HC should probably learn how to recruit Arkansas before they fire up the private jets.

[clutch]

So, you guys are telling me that Alabama, Oklahoma and LSU and Michigan went through a period of talent deficiencies? Mac didn't have talent in Florida the last 2 or 3 years? Texas has had a talent issue???

                                                 BS!!!

Saban hit Alabama in 2007 and went 7-4 the very next year he went 12-2 and then 14-0. I doubt that he had a 5 game swing with 1 recruiting class!
Stoops hit Oklahoma in 1999 and went 7-5 the very next year he went 13-0 on 1 recruiting class?? Yeah right, it was the Jimmies and Joes. Booger is right where he belongs, on TV not on the sidelines.

It's both. A good coach can get you a few more wins than usual, but if he isn't recruiting at a high level then he will never get over that hump. Over the long haul, the teams that come out on top are recruiting at extremely high levels as well as being coached very well. Just having one or the other won't get it done.

You can make up for recruiting deficiencies with exceptional coaching, but you still need to be recruiting at a high level for the school you are at. Chances are, Arkansas is never going to recruit as well as Alabama while Saban is there, or LSU, or Florida, USC, OSU, etc. That doesn't mean that we can't compete though. We need a guy that recruits at high level for Arkansas, a guy that maxes out our recruiting, and can coach them once he gets them. Then we can compete. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The next HC should probably learn how to recruit Arkansas before they fire up the private jets.

I suspect that if he wants a job with the new HC that Lunney will be retained for the expressed purpose of giving them a head start on that very thing.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Yes it is.  Saban and Meyer along with Swinney, Harbaugh and Franklin are the best recruiters in the country.  Kirby Smart may get there but of course he just started.  Stoops was a decent recruiter, Petrino not so much.  Why do you think Louisville is not as competitive now?  Because he has forgotten how to coach?  No, it's because he is not recruiting at an elite level.

Petrino lost his DC to Mississippi State and that's part of the problem.  He also lost some players, teams like Louisville can't sustain like the elites do but a good coach will keep them winning at a good clip.  Remember Louisville is not in the Big East anymore they are in the ACC.  And lastly do you know that Jackson is still have a better year than last dispite not winning as much?  He's still the best football player in America.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Look just get a great coach and he will do the best he can at Arkansas, who know what that will be.  Gus knows what Arkansas is all about, he know the high schools in Arkansas, he will get some players in that the soon to be former coach didn't.  Then he will recruit nationally for the rest.  He will win us those extra two games per year we want and maybe more.

[HogNTX]

The plublicity would be free and instant recruiting

I think this is what CBB thought when he started spouting stuff off in the media. Not all press is good press especially in recruiting.

[BoynamedWooPigSooie]

Well when your athletically superior Jimmies and Joes are stuck on the sidelines and walk-on freshmen get playing time ahead of them what are you to do?  When the coaches keep better players off the field as a power move what can the fans do?

Just suck it up and take it until new coaches are hired I guess.

[ChicoHog]

Petrino lost his DC to Mississippi State and that's part of the problem.  He also lost some players, teams like Louisville can't sustain like the elites do but a good coach will keep them winning at a good clip.  Remember Louisville is not in the Big East anymore they are in the ACC.  And lastly do you know that Jackson is still have a better year than last dispite not winning as much?  He's still the best football player in America.

Agreed.  Jackson is having a great year but his team is not as good and since he won last year he's not getting any play for the Heisman.  I think Louisville will always be formidable but Petrino does not recruit well enough on defense to keep them elite.  He can teach offense and get the skill players but you have to recruit defense. 

[TX HOG]

I think this is what CBB thought when he started spouting stuff off in the media. Not all press is good press especially in recruiting.

I agree. Kiffin wouldn't have to say a word and we'd still have instant publicity and the atttention of HS athletes across the south. So we agree.