Muhammad Ali dies at age 74

[oldbear]

I know this probably doesn't belong here but he was one of the greatest athletes ever and a huge part of the childhood of many of us. I believe he truly was "the Greatest!" Rest in Peace.

[alohawg]

RIP Champ. Glad I am old enough to have witnessed the greatest.

[lwillin]

A true sports legend.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

Too young to have seen him fight in real time.  But he is a legend. Few athletes could be argued as a greater master of their sport. My oldest friend in the world has an awesome picture with him from when Ali visited the gym while my buddy was in the first year of Golden Gloves. It's a tiny kid throwing a punch while Ali feigns terror.

[jdlew]

Babe Ruth of Boxing...RIP

[Arkamedes]

He was a champion. RIP Muhammad Ali.

[ChitownHawg]

Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

Down goes Frazier....down goes Frazier.

He was one of my sports idols growing up. Rest in peace champ.

[zane]

If you ever find yourself in L'ville, check out his museum. Very cool experience.

[TUSKtimes]

Had a style that would eventually figure you out. His speed and size were just amazing for a heavyweight. Championships would challenge your manhood back then for 15 rounds. Plus Ali lived in the golden age of boxing with so many great fighters and bouts going on.

On the social stage, he wasn't any less the showman. From Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali, he became champ during the 60's civil rights movement and he wasn't afraid to speak his mind on any subject. The trade-offs with Howard Cosell were just as classic. What a ride, from Sonny Liston to George Forman, Ali truly "shocked the world."

I started missing him a long time ago.

[ChitownHawg]

Had a style that would eventually figure you out. His speed and size were just amazing for a heavyweight. Championships would challenge your manhood back then for 15 rounds. Plus Ali lived in the golden age of boxing with so many great fighters and bouts going on.

On the social stage, he wasn't any less the showman. From Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali, he became champ during the 60's civil rights movement and he wasn't afraid to speak his mind on any subject. The trade-offs with Howard Cosell were just as classic. What a ride, from Sonny Liston to George Forman, Ali truly "shocked the world."

I started missing him a long time ago.

True dat. Parkinson's took him from us too early.

When he was fighting I would remember waking up in the morning and quickly turning the radio on to hear if he had won the fight. Especially after he lost the first Frasier fight. Many didn't understand his pre-fight bragging. He once said he learned that if he could get in his opponent's head then he could beat him. If his opponent was only thinking "kill that guy" then he wasn't thinking. Which made him vulnerable to Ali.

Seldom was he simply ranting. His words were part of the game. And as you said pretty funny especially with Cossell.

[IronMountainHog]

"His momma name him Clay, I'm gonna call him Clay"

[Inhogswetrust]

If you ever find yourself in L'ville, check out his museum. Very cool experience.

L'ville is a great city to visit.

[Inhogswetrust]

Learn of his life and you will no why he is no legend. 
He was a boxer...and nothing more.

Legends are built usually around a person's success. His was boxing and he was legendary at it so yes indeed he is a legend. That doesn't mean he. like anyone else. was liked by all and the other parts of his life were great. He was human and had his faults. ALL legendary people do.

[Inhogswetrust]

"His momma name him Clay, I'm gonna call him Clay"

What name do you call the Pope? It is common for some to change their name for almost any reason much less his for religious reasons.

[bphi11ips]

Ali was an enigma.  Looking backwards, it's hard to not admire his courage and skill.  He was a polarizing figure throughout the Civil Rights Movement.  He used his celebrity status as a bully pulpit to further the views of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam.  His comments were often hateful and highly offensive to white Americans.  I remember some of them vividly, as well as the discussions they sometimes provoked around the house.  Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali left a lasting impression on those of us who grew up in the '60's and '70's. 

And I think that's what he wanted.  Ali's skill was in the ring, but he will be remembered for having the courage to tell us all bluntly how much he hated white people.  In the end, it needed to be said before the healing could begin.  White Americans had to admit, even if only to themselves, that persons in Ali's shoes had reasons to hate them. 

It will take longer than 50 years to heal wounds that were 350 years in the making, but Muhammad Ali played a big role, albeit as an antagonist, in beginning the healing process.  That, more than his athletic accomplishments, will be his legacy.

[Inhogswetrust]

Ali was an enigma.  Looking backwards, it's hard to not admire his courage and skill.  He was a polarizing figure throughout the Civil Rights Movement.  He used his celebrity status as a bully pulpit to further the views of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam.  His comments were often hateful and highly offensive to white Americans.  I remember some of them vividly, as well as the discussions they sometimes provoked around the house.  Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali left a lasting impression on those of us who grew up in the '60's and '70's. 

And I think that's what he wanted.  Ali's skill was in the ring, but he will be remembered for having the courage to tell us all bluntly how much he hated white people.  In the end, it needed to be said before the healing could begin.  White Americans had to admit, even if only to themselves, that persons in Ali's shoes had reasons to hate them. 

It will take longer than 50 years to heal wounds that were 350 years in the making, but Muhammad Ali played a big role, albeit as an antagonist, in beginning the healing process.  That, more than his athletic accomplishments, will be his legacy.

Very well said. His legacy will indeed be what you said. However his legendary status is for his sports accomplishments. He is one of only a few truly globally recognized sports figures anywhere other than some really isolated places. I think the top three most recognized globally are Ali, Jordan and Pele'.

[ChitownHawg]

What name do you call the Pope? It is common for some to change their name for almost any reason much less his for religious reasons.

I believe that was a quote from the movie Barber Shop. At least that is what Google pulled up.

[ChitownHawg]

Ali was an enigma.  Looking backwards, it's hard to not admire his courage and skill.  He was a polarizing figure throughout the Civil Rights Movement.  He used his celebrity status as a bully pulpit to further the views of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam.  His comments were often hateful and highly offensive to white Americans.  I remember some of them vividly, as well as the discussions they sometimes provoked around the house.  Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali left a lasting impression on those of us who grew up in the '60's and '70's. 

And I think that's what he wanted.  Ali's skill was in the ring, but he will be remembered for having the courage to tell us all bluntly how much he hated white people.  In the end, it needed to be said before the healing could begin.  White Americans had to admit, even if only to themselves, that persons in Ali's shoes had reasons to hate them. 

It will take longer than 50 years to heal wounds that were 350 years in the making, but Muhammad Ali played a big role, albeit as an antagonist, in beginning the healing process.  That, more than his athletic accomplishments, will be his legacy.

Very well said. He believed in what he said so much that he sacrificed a good portion of his PRIME athletic career. How many of today's athletes would do that?

[ChitownHawg]

Very well said. His legacy will indeed be what you said. However his legendary status is for his sports accomplishments. He is one of only a few truly globally recognized sports figures anywhere other than some really isolated places. I think the top three most recognized globally are Ali, Jordan and Pele'.

Maybe Tiger and Beckham?

[howie76]

Very well said. His legacy will indeed be what you said. However his legendary status is for his sports accomplishments. He is one of only a few truly globally recognized sports figures anywhere other than some really isolated places. I think the top three most recognized globally are Ali, Jordan and Pele'.

whats pele?

[Inhogswetrust]

Maybe Tiger and Beckham?

Yes Tiger (at least where golf is played)........ Beckham might not be there just yet but he could get there over time. Pele' transcended his soccer accomplishments like Ali did with boxing. I'm not sure Beckham has done that yet. But two very good potential choices you put forth.

[Inhogswetrust]

whats pele?

How old are you? Perhaps the most recognized sports figure around the world ever. Let me put it this way. In some countries if given a choice to meet either Ali or Pele', due to the overall popularity of Soccer around the world over boxing (and all other sports for that matter) I'd bet most would want to meet Pele'. That's coming from someone that hates soccer.

[Justagp]

Muhammad Ali will be missed. He was probably in his early sixties when I had the pleasure of meeting him. Even though he was afflicted with Parkinson's, his presence still seemed larger than life to me. He had a great smile, was very personable and loved entertaining everyone with magic tricks.

[Seebs]

Growing up always rooted against him.  As I grew up started to respect him.  As he persevered I truly came to admire him.  RIP.

[hobhog]

If you ever find yourself in L'ville, check out his museum. Very cool experience.

Yet they hated any other....

Big fan of the boxer, not so much the mouth.

[Fatty McGee]

The best articles on Ali, collected here:

http://longform.org/posts/muhammad-ali-1942-2016

I enjoyed Ebert's on watching Rocky II with him.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Ali was an enigma.  Looking backwards, it's hard to not admire his courage and skill.  He was a polarizing figure throughout the Civil Rights Movement.  He used his celebrity status as a bully pulpit to further the views of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam.  His comments were often hateful and highly offensive to white Americans.  I remember some of them vividly, as well as the discussions they sometimes provoked around the house.  Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali left a lasting impression on those of us who grew up in the '60's and '70's. 

And I think that's what he wanted.  Ali's skill was in the ring, but he will be remembered for having the courage to tell us all bluntly how much he hated white people.  In the end, it needed to be said before the healing could begin.  White Americans had to admit, even if only to themselves, that persons in Ali's shoes had reasons to hate them. 

It will take longer than 50 years to heal wounds that were 350 years in the making, but Muhammad Ali played a big role, albeit as an antagonist, in beginning the healing process.  That, more than his athletic accomplishments, will be his legacy.

Great, great analysis.  Took the thoughts right out of my head.  My dad hated Ali when I was a kid, so I hated him too.  I rooted for Frazler in all three of those classic fights.  But as I've gotten older and more mature, I've come to understand that Ali's voice was needed, whether we knew it or not at the time, and he did indeed have the courage to stand firm in the face of those that hated him.  I still do not like his religious views, his refusal to be inducted after being drafted, or the way he used some of his opponents (particularly Frazier) by belittling them.  But you cannot argue with the fact that he was one of the most charismatic and important figures of the latter half of the 20th century.

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that the Mount Rushmore of social change, worldwide, in the 20th century was Nelson Mandela, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and Muhammad Ali.

[Justagp]

The best articles on Ali, collected here:

http://longform.org/posts/muhammad-ali-1942-2016

I enjoyed Ebert's on watching Rocky II with him.

Thank you for posting this link. I enjoyed Ebert's on watching Rocky II as well.

[ChitownHawg]

The same Nelson Mandela who practiced "necklacing" against his opposition of color after he was released from prison and won the Presidency of South Africa....let me give you a little idea of what Nelson and Winnie did to their political opposition....

In tribute to Ali you couldn't overlook the comments about Mandela? You had to turn the thread political? Geez some people have no respect or common decency.

[Iwastherein1969]

In tribute to Ali you couldn't overlook the comments about Mandela? You had to turn the thread political? Geez some people have no respect or common decency.

the truth is you don't care to see....I was about to give my salute to Muhammad Ali....although I don't agree that it was somehow cathartic for Ali to say how much he hated white people as some others in here do, I will say this. My father met Ali in the Houston airport completely by accident in the mid 70's. Told me that Muhammad Ali was nothing like he was portrayed to be. Pops said he had never met a more gracious man who spent time with each and every one of his many, many fans....I think the way Ali treated Joe Frazier was appalling using the guise that "oh, I was just promoting the fight"....horse manure, the gates for those three fights were all sold out as soon as seats at all the 'closed circuit' tv locations were made available. Ali was somewhat of an enigma, the older he got, the more gentle and caring he became. I don't agree with his draft dodging based on killing others because the man he followed at the time Elijah Muhammad advocated killing the white devil. The reason Malcolm X as assassinated was because Malcolm had a trip to Mecca and was converted from race hate to race relations. Malcolm X should be on that wall because he gave his life for the brotherhood of man. Ali's greatest attribute was his determination, I saw Joe Frazier hit him with punches that would have knocked out any normal human being. Muhammad was anything but normal. His determination in his beliefs are a huge positive to me so I have no problems with Ali being on the Mt Rushmore of social change. Nelson Mandela, not so much.

[EastexHawg]

There's a lot of revisionist history going on in terms of network coverage and commentary on Ali's life.  He wasn't universally beloved and respected while his career was ongoing. 

He was a great boxer who proclaimed himself The Greatest.  Was that true?  It's not nearly as clear cut as is being claimed.  Joe Frazier soundly whipped him in their first fight when both were younger and closer to their primes.  Ken Norton beat on him, broke Ali's jaw, and won their first fight.  A lot of people thought Norton also won their other two fights, although Ali got the decisions.

The Foreman bout was fought under very unusual circumstances.  It took place in the middle of the night in Zaire, where Foreman was basically under house arrest by the government and military.  At the time Foreman said he believed he may have been drugged by the people preparing his food.

Ali never fought Joe Louis, undefeated Rocky Marciano, or any number of other great champions so whether he would have beaten them is pure conjecture.

Outside the ring, he spewed what would now be considered hate speech and refused to serve when drafted.  It's easy to say now that his tactics and views were justified, but at the time they certainly didn't have the effect of creating harmony and bringing people together.

As for the "he lost three years from the prime of his career" statements, that's true... but he lost them because of his own decisions.  A lot of great athletes lost years because they did serve.  Ted Williams not only missed three years to WWII, but two more when he was called back into service in Korea.  Those years may have cost him the opportunity to be the first to break Babe Ruth's career home run record, but as far as I know Williams never begrudged his service.

Joe DiMaggio, Clark Gable, and many more lost years from their careers as well.  Ali wasn't unique or really even unusual in that regard.

Am I saddened by his affliction with Parkinson's and his death?  Of course I am.  He was a great athlete whose physical abilities were taken from him at a young age.  But, as Ted Kennedy said when eulogizing his war hero, Pulitzer Prize winning, and President of the United States brother, let's not try to make him more in death than he was in life.

[ChitownHawg]

the truth is you don't care to see....I was about to give my salute to Muhammad Ali....although I don't agree that it was somehow cathartic for Ali to say how much he hated white people as some others in here do, I will say this. My father met Ali in the Houston airport completely by accident in the mid 70's. Told me that Muhammad Ali was nothing like he was portrayed to be. Pops said he had never met a more gracious man who spent time with each and every one of his many, many fans....I think the way Ali treated Joe Frazier was appalling using the guise that "oh, I was just promoting the fight"....horse manure, the gates for those three fights were all sold out as soon as seats at all the 'closed circuit' tv locations were made available. Ali was somewhat of an enigma, the older he got, the more gentle and caring he became. I don't agree with his draft dodging based on killing others because the man he followed at the time Elijah Muhammad advocated killing the white devil. The reason Malcolm X as assassinated was because Malcolm had a trip to Mecca and was converted from race hate to race relations. Malcolm X should be on that wall because he gave his life for the brotherhood of man. Ali's greatest attribute was his determination, I saw Joe Frazier hit him with punches that would have knocked out any normal human being. Muhammad was anything but normal. His determination in his beliefs are a huge positive to me so I have no problems with Ali being on the Mt Rushmore of social change. Nelson Mandela, not so much.

That is cool about your dad. As I said above Ali's rants were designed to get in the head of his opponent. I understand why some people didn't like it, but it was pure calculating on Ali's part. And a bit of showmanship.

I read once that he gave some credit to the old wrestler Gorgeous George for his showmanship.

[Inhogswetrust]

Great, great analysis.  Took the thoughts right out of my head.  My dad hated Ali when I was a kid, so I hated him too.  I rooted for Frazler in all three of those classic fights.  But as I've gotten older and more mature, I've come to understand that Ali's voice was needed, whether we knew it or not at the time, and he did indeed have the courage to stand firm in the face of those that hated him.  I still do not like his religious views, his refusal to be inducted after being drafted, or the way he used some of his opponents (particularly Frazier) by belittling them.  But you cannot argue with the fact that he was one of the most charismatic and important figures of the latter half of the 20th century.

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that the Mount Rushmore of social change, worldwide, in the 20th century was Nelson Mandela, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and Muhammad Ali.

I'd remove Mandela. I'd add Gandhi to that list.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

The same Nelson Mandela who practiced "necklacing" against his opposition of color after he was released from prison and won the Presidency of South Africa....let me give you a little idea of what Nelson and Winnie did to their political opposition....

I do not claim to be an expert on South African history and politics, but my recollection is that this horrible practice was attributed almost exclusively to Winnie and her more radical followers.  Mandela himself condemned the practice and the primary reason he divorced Winnie was because her political views radicalized over time while Mandela's moderated. 

[bphi11ips]

There's a lot of revisionist history going on in terms of network coverage and commentary on Ali's life.  He wasn't universally beloved and respected while his career was ongoing. 

That's why I said Ali is an enigma.  His public persona definitely evolved over time.

Having been raised on the concept that you do your talking on the field, I never cared for his style.  Still don't.  But in retrospect, his impact on society and athletics is undeniable.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

Down goes Frazier....down goes Frazier.

He was one of my sports idols growing up. Rest in peace champ.

Down goes Frazier . . . down goes Frazier--> That's Cosell calling Foreman damn near killing Frazier. Frazier's legs were flopping like he'd been electrocuted.  No Ali involvement in that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zx9iSfRIFI

See about 2:34.

EFBAB

[jdlew]

No.
Rocky Marciano.

Marciano was not the most recognizable name in the history of boxing...just like Mantle and Mays are not the most recognized name in baseball..

[GuvHog]

Marciano was not the most recognizable name in the history of boxing...just like Mantle and Mays are not the most recognized name in baseball..

Was Marciano not the only heavyweight boxer in the history of boxing to retire while still the undefeated, undisputed heavyweight Champion??

[alohawg]

Cool

[razorbacker3]

A man I tried to hate as a teen and young man. As I grew up and saw all the good he did as well as entertained in the ring, he became one of my favorite people in the ring and even more out of the ring. A great fighter, and great human, who , like us all , had faults, but he overcame many and did his best for all. Rest In Peace champ.

[Inhogswetrust]

I believe that was a quote from the movie Barber Shop. At least that is what Google pulled up.

Yes it is a quote. However some people didn't like the fact he did indeed change his name or his reason for doing so. Thus my post.

[Inhogswetrust]

Was Marciano not the only heavyweight boxer in the history of boxing to retire while still the undefeated, undisputed heavyweight Champion??

Maybe so...but that doesn't make him the most recognized or known historically. Even people that don't know anything about boxing as a sport can see a photo of Ali and name him. I doubt that's true for Marciano.

[nchogg]

It was fun to watch his interviews. I also enjoyed his fights. I will not get into a political discussion about many of the things he did. He did not hit fans or women like Tyson did. There is no comparison between them. I always felt that Ali would have beat Tyson when both were in their prime.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Down goes Frazier . . . down goes Frazier--> That's Cosell calling Foreman damn near killing Frazier. Frazier's legs were flopping like he'd been electrocuted.  No Ali involvement in that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zx9iSfRIFI

See about 2:34.

EFBAB

I remember watching Foreman win the title again in the 90's, forgot who it was against though....
edit: Michael Moorer

PP

[hogninja]

Made boxing relevant again after the 50's.  You wanted to watch.  Sure, He was  a showman , but that sold tickets. Watched every fight I could. RIP ALI.

[ChitownHawg]

Down goes Frazier . . . down goes Frazier--> That's Cosell calling Foreman damn near killing Frazier. Frazier's legs were flopping like he'd been electrocuted.  No Ali involvement in that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zx9iSfRIFI

See about 2:34.

EFBAB

Just another sign that Father Time is kicking my butt - memories melting together. 

Thanks for the correction.

[McKdaddy]

Down goes Frazier . . . down goes Frazier--> That's Cosell calling Foreman damn near killing Frazier. Frazier's legs were flopping like he'd been electrocuted.  No Ali involvement in that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zx9iSfRIFI

See about 2:34.

EFBAB

Man, that was punishing.

[hawganatic]

No.
Rocky Marciano.

Oh, there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin' 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out they ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano! Rocky Marciano!

[GuvHog]

Maybe so...but that doesn't make him the most recognized or known historically. Even people that don't know anything about boxing as a sport can see a photo of Ali and name him. I doubt that's true for Marciano.

Marciano and Ali were two of the greatest, that's for sure. A match between them would have been epic but due to their age difference, it wasn't meant to be (Rocky died in 1969).

[jbcarol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XKcGRREcaM