For maybe the first time ever, I agree with Wally Hall

[Corkscrew Johnson]

I am pissed off as everyone else about the 0-4 SEC start, but our fanbase has exhibited more behavioral volatility than a meth addict over the past 2 months.  First, we are resigned to a season of misery since we have to replace 85% of our scoring, 80% of our rebounding and assists (thanks STAN HEATH, not John Pelphrey), then we are wraught with anxiety about losing our head coach to Kentucky after the revival of hogball, and 3 weeks later we are trying to organize a mutiny.  Sweet Jesus...calm down, take a valium, go play with your kids.  It's exhausting listening to this myopic ranting, which is usually followed up by some ridiculous "eating crow" post that you think compensates for your months of needless bitching.

Wally Hall makes 3 legitimate points this morning, surprisingly without having to dip into his stash of 4th grade similies:

1.  Realistically, this is John Pelphrey's first year (when he got here in 2007, recruiting was already done for 2008...it's a miracle we pulled in Sanchez.) 
2.  Since we are starting 3 freshmen, we are going to be inconsistent.  Fact. 
3.  It takes 3 years to build a program.

Look at those 3 points.  Digest them.  Respect them.  Now accept them because they aren't going to change.  And in 2 years...maybe even next year...you will look back and appreciate them.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Now, as for some of the criticisms I have been reading over the past few days...

Do you seriously think Pelphrey learned nothing about defense under Petino and Donovan?  Really?  We can't run our style of play because Beverly cheated, Payne didn't make his grades, McDonald is a crybaby, and Jason Henry can't get healthy.   What's the common theme with those guys?  SIZE.  It's hard to press and defend the perimeter when your 1, 2, and 3 position players are all 6 feet and under.   Pel makes mistakes like any young coach, but he will learn from them.  Did Nolan?  Absolutely...he had a more talented team in 1990-92 than he did from 1993-1995, but which one had the best results?   

Do you seriously think Pelphrey can't develop players?  Darian Townes, prime example.  But for those who can't remember 10 months ago, I'll give you another example...MIKE WASHINGTON.  This kid was useless his first 2 years, spending all his time jacking up 3's, charging blindly into the lane, and fouling approximately every 30 seconds.  Now he's a lock for 1st team all-SEC.  A complete transformation in 1 year.

I'm pissed off too at the way we have played the past 3 weeks.  It seems like we are regressing.  But in fact we are learning. These are the lessons that you want your freshmen PG to be absorbing in practice, not in front of 20,000 people.  But the faster your throw someone in the deep end, the faster they learn how to swim. 

[blacksuit]

Good points all around. The thing that sticks out to me is that we're basically missing 3 rotation players (not counting Bev). Hard to win with such a young, depleted roster.

[Queen Hog]

Good post.  Thx.  Go Hogs...beat Bama!!! :razorback:

[Corkscrew Johnson]

As for recruiting...

it would have been MUCH easier to recruit with a Calipari, Self, Petino, or Gillespie.  But those guys all said NO.  That was a tough hit for our pride...but I don't think those coaches said no because of our fanbase, our facilities, or our tradition.  They said NO because they were going to inherit a mess.  Stan left a bare cupboard, as Wally pointed out this morning. That's the reality.

So we turned to a young, ambitious, passionate coach who wanted the challenge.  He has the type of offense that our fans crave, that has won 2 of the last 3 national championships, and that RECRUITS LOVE.  They just love it.  Who wouldn't want to play for the team that outgunned #4 OU in front of 20,000 people?  It's just that they have to see it with their own eyes to believe it, and they couldn't do that last year with Stan's frontcourt heavy team.  And with bball recruits getting locked up 18 months in advance, we won't see dividends for this foundation until 2010, 2011. 

[Razorod]

As for recruiting...

it would have been MUCH easier to recruit with a Calipari, Self, Petino, or Gillespie.  But those guys all said NO.  That was a tough hit for our pride...but I don't think those coaches said no because of our fanbase, our facilities, or our tradition.  They said NO because they were going to inherit a mess.  Stan left a bare cupboard, as Wally pointed out this morning. That's the reality.

So we turned to a young, ambitious, passionate coach who wanted the challenge.  He has the type of offense that our fans crave, that has won 2 of the last 3 national championships, and that RECRUITS LOVE.  They just love it.  Who wouldn't want to play for the team that outgunned #4 OU in front of 20,000 people?  It's just that they have to see it with their own eyes to believe it, and they couldn't do that last year with Stan's frontcourt heavy team.  And with bball recruits getting locked up 18 months in advance, we won't see dividends for this foundation until 2010, 2011. 

your last sentence speaks to the truth. 2010 is almost taken when you look at the top 100 lists. i'm really hoping pel can reel in Luke Cothron in 2010. Main thing right now is that Washington comes back for his senior year. if he does and we can add Powell and Farmer, get Henry healthy then maybe we'll be back to a tournament team. Beyond 09-10, I hope we can soon start playing into the Sweet 16 Round.

[bellavistamike]

Well said, Cork! You bring good stuff to  he table. Keep up the good work!

[donewithdale]

Now, as for some of the criticisms I have been reading over the past few days...

Do you seriously think Pelphrey learned nothing about defense under Petino and Donovan?  Really?  We can't run our style of play because Beverly cheated, Payne didn't make his grades, McDonald is a crybaby, and Jason Henry can't get healthy.   What's the common theme with those guys?  SIZE.  It's hard to press and defend the perimeter when your 1, 2, and 3 position players are all 6 feet and under.   Pel makes mistakes like any young coach, but he will learn from them.  Did Nolan?  Absolutely...he had a more talented team in 1990-92 than he did from 1993-1995, but which one had the best results?   

Do you seriously think Pelphrey can't develop players?  Darian Townes, prime example.  But for those who can't remember 10 months ago, I'll give you another example...MIKE WASHINGTON.  This kid was useless his first 2 years, spending all his time jacking up 3's, charging blindly into the lane, and fouling approximately every 30 seconds.  Now he's a lock for 1st team all-SEC.  A complete transformation in 1 year.

I'm pissed off too at the way we have played the past 3 weeks.  It seems like we are regressing.  But in fact we are learning. These are the lessons that you want your freshmen PG to be absorbing in practice, not in front of 20,000 people.  But the faster your throw someone in the deep end, the faster they learn how to swim.

Washington wasn't useless.  He played on a team frontcourt heavy.  And as far as his development, he was one of the highest ranked players we signed this decade. 


Pelphrey didn't take over a losing program as we have been to 3 straight NCAAT.  Heath had to recruit to a losing program and against a racial discrimination lawsuit.  Pel has had the fortune of numerous scholarships in this past class and this class to build his type of team.  The 2010 class had better be good as I'm willing to let him work on the 2011 one but I'm not sure how many others are.  The true test will be attendance. 

[LamarMundane]

--->Do you seriously think Pelphrey can't develop players?  Darian Townes, prime example.  But for those who can't remember 10 months ago, I'll give you another example...MIKE WASHINGTON.  This kid was useless his first 2 years, spending all his time jacking up 3's, charging blindly into the lane, and fouling approximately every 30 seconds.  Now he's a lock for 1st team all-SEC.  A complete transformation in 1 year. --->


Jury is out on Pelphrey, he hasn't been here long enough, with his own players, so I'm neither negative or positive on him. But I would disagree a little. Pelphrey hasn't 'developed' Washington in one year. To me, it's a case of a guy finally getting his chance to play significant minutes on a regular basis, and that makes a big difference. Previously, he was stacked behind Hill, Townes, and Thomas and those guys were hard to supplant in the lineup. When he would get to play, it was spot-time only. Now if you want to argue he should have been playing more minutes, that's fair, but it's a separate discussion.

[LamarMundane]

--->it would have been MUCH easier to recruit with a Calipari, Self, Petino, or Gillespie.  But those guys all said NO.  That was a tough hit for our pride...but I don't think those coaches said no because of our fanbase, our facilities, or our tradition.  They said NO because they were going to inherit a mess.  Stan left a bare cupboard, as Wally pointed out this morning. That's the reality.--->

Those guys all said 'no' because they had an equal or better situation where they were. Why change?

[Hawg Barry]

I'm just glad we didn't end up with Dana Altman...............

[LamarMundane]

Petino, Self, and Calipari are all at equal or better jobs where they are. Most of them would think long-term and not just what they would 'inherit', imho.

Gillespie probably would have been here if Kentucky hadn't also offered him. We've already lost one coach to Kentucky(Sutton)

[LamarMundane]

I'm just glad we didn't end up with Dana Altman...............

Ok, I agree Altman didn't do a very enthusiastic Hog-call. And he clearly loves his home state Nebraska, so it's probably best he did a 180 and went back. Then there's the name Dana. On the other hand, Pelphrey has totally embraced Arkansas and has said all the right things. BUT...Altman is a very well respected coach, and a more established coach than Pelphrey is. Altman would have done very well here, imho.

[donewithdale]

As for recruiting...

it would have been MUCH easier to recruit with a Calipari, Self, Petino, or Gillespie.  But those guys all said NO.  That was a tough hit for our pride...but I don't think those coaches said no because of our fanbase, our facilities, or our tradition.  They said NO because they were going to inherit a mess.  Stan left a bare cupboard, as Wally pointed out this morning. That's the reality.

So we turned to a young, ambitious, passionate coach who wanted the challenge.  He has the type of offense that our fans crave, that has won 2 of the last 3 national championships, and that RECRUITS LOVE.  They just love it.  Who wouldn't want to play for the team that outgunned #4 OU in front of 20,000 people?  It's just that they have to see it with their own eyes to believe it, and they couldn't do that last year with Stan's frontcourt heavy team.  And with bball recruits getting locked up 18 months in advance, we won't see dividends for this foundation until 2010, 2011.

I asked this question in another thread.  What makes our job so appealling right now that we would think a coach would leave the Big East, ACC, Big 12 or a program like Memphis? 

I get we had a great 20 year run and we can have great large crowds at home.  Most Big East programs have great arenas - many are NBA/NHL level arenas - they have great support for basketball, they get tv exposure, and most importantly they are located in major cities close to high school basketball hotbeds like NYC, Philly, DC, Baltimore.  The one thing we could and would offer if we went this route would be a pay raise. 

Could our athl dept luck into another Petrino where a great coach is needing an immediate change?

[LamarMundane]

I agree about taking a pill and chilling. But Wally needs to take his own advice. Hasn't he referenced last team's alleged 'chemistry' problems before? And, after beating Texas and OU, he insinuated this team succeeds because they don't have those problems, and they play together? Yes, he did. So, after losing four in a row, do we suddenly have chemistry problems?

Wally is just as guilty as anyone else about drawing snap judgments based on a few games. Let the season play out, completely. As for Pelphrey, let a couple more seasons play out, completely, before making judgments on him.

[want2be]

Pel has got to get the NEEDED recruits. I don't understand signing a project like Borden for next year when we obviously have immediate needs. The rumor on Powell is that he may not qualify. So that leaves Farmer for next year so far. Farmer is 6'5" and could come in and help immediately but even he was not recruited by any big name schools.

Petrino has proven you can recruit to Arkansas and now Pel needs to proof the same thing. I think he needs 4-5 years to show who can get and in the meantime hopefully the fans will keep filling the seats.

As far a player development, Washington is the most improved player I have ever seen, and I expect the same out of Moore and Clark next year. 

[Niels Boar]

There has been a lot of manic-depression this season centered on the OU and Texas games.  If you look at the other 15 games, we have consistently demonstrated major weaknesses, even in the North Texas game between OU and Texas.  For some reason the OU and Texas games are the real team, but the other 15 are not.  If you look at the season as a whole, the OU and Texas performances are significantly above the mean performance.  Our 0-4 start is below our mean, but we have health and suspension problems on an already undermanned team, and all three starting guards are unable to knock down an open jump shot consistently.  With Washington slowed by injury and Fortson unable to make a shot outside five feet, who on our squad scares anybody at either end?

[donewithdale]

Pel has got to get the NEEDED recruits. I don't understand signing a project like Borden for next year when we obviously have immediate needs. The rumor on Powell is that he may not qualify. So that leaves Farmer for next year so far. Farmer is 6'5" and could come in and help immediately but even he was not recruited by any big name schools.

Petrino has proven you can recruit to Arkansas and now Pel needs to proof the same thing. I think he needs 4-5 years to show who can get and in the meantime hopefully the fans will keep filling the seats.

As far a player development, Washington is the most improved player I have ever seen, and I expect the same out of Moore and Clark next year.

Moore and Clark aren't in the same ballpark for potential that Washington was. 

And I agree on giving Pel a few years would be the right thing.  Unfortunately, I don't think as a fan base we have it in us.  The seats won't be filled barring a miracle given our current roster and Wash's health and won't be in the near future at this current rate of recruiting.  I'm not saying that is fair to Pel.  Its one of the negatives in regards to this job.  Our fan base is spoiled.

[DeltaBoy]

greatpost Cork+1

[Niels Boar]

Moore and Clark aren't in the same ballpark for potential that Washington was. 

And I agree on giving Pel a few years would be the right thing.  Unfortunately, I don't think as a fan base we have it in us.  The seats won't be filled barring a miracle given our current roster and Wash's health and won't be in the near future at this current rate of recruiting.  I'm not saying that is fair to Pel.  Its one of the negatives in regards to this job.  Our fan base is spoiled.

With big men you never know.  Clark is probably a better pure athlete than Washington.  Big men can sometimes make huge leaps in skill development.  Olajuwon looked liked an unskilled, foul machine his freshman year.  Nobody knows what David Robinson looked like his freshman year since nobody was paying attention.  Karl Malone still didn't have much of a jump shot his rookie year in the NBA and couldn't make a FT.  He basically out-athleted competition in college.

It reminds me of a casting director that told both Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood that they had no futures in acting, Reynolds because he couldn't act and Eastwood because his Adam's apple was too big. 

Reynolds looked at Eastwood and said, "You're really in trouble." 

Eastwood replied, "How do you figure that?"

Reynolds, "I can learn how to act."

[donewithdale]

With big men you never know.  Clark is probably a better pure athlete than Washington.  Big men can sometimes make huge leaps in skill development.  Olajuwon looked liked an unskilled, foul machine his freshman year.  Nobody knows what David Robinson looked like his freshman year since nobody was paying attention.  Karl Malone still didn't have much of a jump shot his rookie year in the NBA and couldn't make a FT.  He basically out-athleted competition in college.

It reminds me of a casting director that told both Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood that they had no futures in acting, Reynolds because he couldn't act and Eastwood because his Adam's apple was too big. 

Reynolds looked at Eastwood and said, "You're really in trouble." 

Eastwood replied, "How do you figure that?"

Reynolds, "I can learn how to act."

Well I'm not one to give up on freshmen.  They do have some upside.

Drexler's interview with Shawn and Wally was funny when he talked about Dream and when he first practiced and had no understanding of the sport.  His soccer background really helped him from a coordination standpoint. 

[Razorod]

Ok, I agree Altman didn't do a very enthusiastic Hog-call. And he clearly loves his home state Nebraska, so it's probably best he did a 180 and went back. Then there's the name Dana. On the other hand, Pelphrey has totally embraced Arkansas and has said all the right things. BUT...Altman is a very well respected coach, and a more established coach than Pelphrey is. Altman would have done very well here, imho.

i also think we now have a better idea why altman did an about face. he started turning over a few stones and saw what was lurking beneath (many of the things we've experienced over the past six months) and said thanks, but no thanks. so i guess we should be grateful to pel for saying yes to us.

[Biggus Piggus]

Nobody knows what David Robinson looked like his freshman year since nobody was paying attention.

Robinson was Colonial rookie of the year in 1984.  He hardly played in their first seven games.  He averaged 10 ppg after January.

[Niels Boar]

Well I'm not one to give up on freshmen.  They do have some upside.

Drexler's interview with Shawn and Wally was funny when he talked about Dream and when he first practiced and had no understanding of the sport.  His soccer background really helped him from a coordination standpoint. 

Granted, the magnitude of the Olajuwon leap is obviously the exception. 

[donewithdale]

Granted, the magnitude of the Olajuwon leap is obviously the exception.

One in fairly recent Hog history to make a great leap into being at least an effective role player was Nicky Davis.  He became a rebounding machine through his length and athleticism and has earned a living now playing internationally.  If Clark could just develop into a defensive force and rebounder, it would help this team tremendously.  And I think he has some offensive potential too. 

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Washington wasn't useless.  He played on a team frontcourt heavy.  And as far as his development, he was one of the highest ranked players we signed this decade. 

Washington was ranked highly based purely on potential...he was extremely raw.  If his game was halfway evolved, he could have easily taken away PT from Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and to a lesser extent, Darian Townes.  Those guys didn't command all the minutes because they were seniors...this isn't church league basketball.  They got all the minutes because Mike Washington was a purely 1-on-1 player who couldn't incorporate himself into the game, didn't have control of his body and drove to the basket recklessly, had no low-post moves, and was beaten defensively to the basket so quickly that his only possible retaliation was to foul.   I don't think anyone on this board could have reasonably anticipated the amount of development that has occured in the past 10 months.  Not saying it's all due to Pelphrey, but if we can see similar development with our freshmen, we will be in great shape.  Moore looks much better as a freshmen than Washington did.

 

Pelphrey didn't take over a losing program as we have been to 3 straight NCAAT.  Heath had to recruit to a losing program and against a racial discrimination lawsuit.  Pel has had the fortune of numerous scholarships in this past class and this class to build his type of team. 

While what you said is technically correct, it bypasses the core issue, which is rebuilding a program.  It's a lot harder to start over when you have to waste an entire year babysitting an underachieving senior class, only to see them all leave en masse due to graduation.  Then you are forced to replace 85% of your scoring, 80% of your rebounding, and 80% of your assists because your predecessor had 2 abysmal recruiting classes in 3 years...but hey, your team is technically supposed to be better because it's your second year on the job?  That doesn't make any sense.

The truth is that Pel IS building his type of team, it's just that these kids aren't going to walk onto campus as men on day 1.  They have to develop and mature, and our program has to evolve so that we can have upperclassmen starting while underclassmen learn.  That's how programs are built. 

[roundball]

With big men you never know.  Clark is probably a better pure athlete than Washington.  Big men can sometimes make huge leaps in skill development.  Olajuwon looked liked an unskilled, foul machine his freshman year.  Nobody knows what David Robinson looked like his freshman year since nobody was paying attention.  Karl Malone still didn't have much of a jump shot his rookie year in the NBA and couldn't make a FT.  He basically out-athleted competition in college.

It reminds me of a casting director that told both Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood that they had no futures in acting, Reynolds because he couldn't act and Eastwood because his Adam's apple was too big. 

Reynolds looked at Eastwood and said, "You're really in trouble." 

Eastwood replied, "How do you figure that?"

Reynolds, "I can learn how to act."

No disrespect, but please try not compare Malone, Robinson, and Olajuwon in the same potential league as Clark and Moore. They were all beasts their freshmen years. It was obvious they were going to be stars. They made up for their weaknesses by just being beasts!

[HotlantaHog]

Lots of positive posts here and I agree the future is bright.

Still, it has been painful to watch the last four games -- and seems doubly painful to have a struggling basketball team after just enduring a struggling football team.

I think will Pel will likely be a huge success in say 2011 too, but is it too much to ask that Hogs win a home SEC game now and then in 2009? It would make the wait for greatness a bit easier to take.

[donewithdale]

Washington was ranked highly based purely on potential...he was extremely raw.  If his game was halfway evolved, he could have easily taken away PT from Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, and to a lesser extent, Darian Townes.  Those guys didn't command all the minutes because they were seniors...this isn't church league basketball.  They got all the minutes because Mike Washington was a purely 1-on-1 player who couldn't incorporate himself into the game, didn't have control of his body and drove to the basket recklessly, had no low-post moves, and was beaten defensively to the basket so quickly that his only possible retaliation was to foul.   I don't think anyone on this board could have reasonably anticipated the amount of development that has occured in the past 10 months.  Not saying it's all due to Pelphrey, but if we can see similar development with our freshmen, we will be in great shape.  Moore looks much better as a freshmen than Washington did.

 

While what you said is technically correct, it bypasses the core issue, which is rebuilding a program.  It's a lot harder to start over when you have to waste an entire year babysitting an underachieving senior class, only to see them all leave en masse due to graduation.  Then you are forced to replace 85% of your scoring, 80% of your rebounding, and 80% of your assists because your predecessor had 2 abysmal recruiting classes in 3 years...but hey, your team is technically supposed to be better because it's your second year on the job?  That doesn't make any sense.

The truth is that Pel IS building his type of team, it's just that these kids aren't going to walk onto campus as men on day 1.  They have to develop and mature, and our program has to evolve so that we can have upperclassmen starting while underclassmen learn.  That's how programs are built.

Pel is having to rebuild as Stan did somehow manage to get 6 seniors in one class.  And the discipline of a couple of holdovers has caused issues with one not being eligible.  But Pel is recruiting from a stronger position than Stan did in his first two real classes IMO. 

Charles Thomas' minutes should have been extremely limited last season.  Hill's defense affected games in a positive way.  And Townes' offensive skills and post moves have not been seen around here by a frontcourt player since Corliss and not by a center since O when his weight was under control.  Neither Hill nor Townes were close to complete players though. 

[want2be]

Lots of positive posts here and I agree the future is bright.

Still, it has been painful to watch the last four games -- and seems doubly painful to have a struggling basketball team after just enduring a struggling football team.

I think will Pel will likely be a huge success in say 2011 too, but is it too much to ask that Hogs win a home SEC game now and then in 2009? It would make the wait for greatness a bit easier to take.

I don't think alot of fans mind the losing, but it is how we are losing......The fans love to see a hustling, trapping, aggresive rebounding, pressure defense and we have not seen that latley ( And I know about the lack of players, but it doesn't matter.........when your down 15 points with 5 minutes to go, put on the pressure)

Also some of the corrections are just not "freshman mistakes"
1) Fortson should not be shooting 3's.........he has got a good shot from 10' so he needs to use it
2) Fortson long uncatchable passes.............just quit it
3) Clarke's shooting slump.........do more with the ball and try to get fouled and go to the line.......this kid is athletic enough to do more than JUST shoot 3's.
4) Sachez.......no rebounds, no play

Pel needs time, but these Freshman need to learn their roles

[rzrbackrob]

I don't think alot of fans mind the losing, but it is how we are losing......The fans love to see a hustling, trapping, aggressive rebounding, pressure defense and we have not seen that lately

Will really be disappointed if we lose to Alabubba this week
I will be furious if we give up like we did in the last 7min to Auburn

But what ever happens, Pel should and will be here for at least 3 more years if the unforeseen doesn't happen.

[Niels Boar]

No disrespect, but please try not compare Malone, Robinson, and Olajuwon in the same potential league as Clark and Moore. They were all beasts their freshmen years. It was obvious they were going to be stars. They made up for their weaknesses by just being beasts!

Malone was highly recruited, if not very skilled.  Robinson grew 4 inches in college.  He was not a beast his freshman year.  There's a reason he was at Navy, where any pro career will be delayed.  Olajuwon was not highly recruited either, red-shirted, and played sparingly his freshman season.  Guy Lewis did not even have a member of his staff pick him up at the airport on his initial visit to Houston.  Olajuwon was fortunate that after his freshman season that he got to work out with Moses Malone in the summer.  Neither future NBA great was a certain All-American after their freshmen seasons. 

Another case I'll throw out there is John Salley.  I watched him play at Georgia Tech his freshman season.  He had to hop around in the shower to get wet.  Salley was the opposite of Clark, though.  He showed some skills but was just too weak to compete at an ACC level his freshman season.  By his junior season he competed fairly well against Patrick Ewing in the Elite Eight.

In any case I was just using those as extreme examples.  Obviously the odds of Moore or Clark being a top 50 NBA player are remote.  Heck, the odds aren't great that first-team All-Americans will be anything better than solid pros.  However, it's not rare for big men to develop significantly in college.  UConn has had several guys progress from the bench to legit All Big East type players.  Of course, lots of scrubs stay scrubs, too.

[elksnort]

"A miracle we pulled in Sanchez"

What?

I like Wally fine, but he also said tonight, that Billy Gillespie could be in the running for coach at Alabama.

Now, why in God's name would a coach leave Kentucky for Alabama (in basketball, of course)?

[al2305]

"A miracle we pulled in Sanchez"

What?

I like Wally fine, but he also said tonight, that Billy Gillespie could be in the running for coach at Alabama.

Now, why in God's name would a coach leave Kentucky for Alabama (in basketball, of course)?

Sanchez is a good player, he's just a freshman surrounded by freshmen.

[al2305]

Now, as for some of the criticisms I have been reading over the past few days...

Do you seriously think Pelphrey learned nothing about defense under Petino and Donovan?  Really?  We can't run our style of play because Beverly cheated, Payne didn't make his grades, McDonald is a crybaby, and Jason Henry can't get healthy.   What's the common theme with those guys?  SIZE.  It's hard to press and defend the perimeter when your 1, 2, and 3 position players are all 6 feet and under.   Pel makes mistakes like any young coach, but he will learn from them.  Did Nolan?  Absolutely...he had a more talented team in 1990-92 than he did from 1993-1995, but which one had the best results?   

Do you seriously think Pelphrey can't develop players?  Darian Townes, prime example.  But for those who can't remember 10 months ago, I'll give you another example...MIKE WASHINGTON.  This kid was useless his first 2 years, spending all his time jacking up 3's, charging blindly into the lane, and fouling approximately every 30 seconds.  Now he's a lock for 1st team all-SEC.  A complete transformation in 1 year.

I'm pissed off too at the way we have played the past 3 weeks.  It seems like we are regressing.  But in fact we are learning. These are the lessons that you want your freshmen PG to be absorbing in practice, not in front of 20,000 people.  But the faster your throw someone in the deep end, the faster they learn how to swim.

Great post, keep spreading the common sense to the masses no matter how stupid everybody sounds, maybe it will get through to a few.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

"A miracle we pulled in Sanchez"

What?

Do you remember Stan's 2007-08 recruiting class before Pel was able to manage Sanchez?  Exactly.

[roundball]

Do you remember Stan's 2007-08 recruiting class before Pel was able to manage Sanchez?  Exactly.

Like I said earlier..it was pathetic!!

[89ALUM]

I would agree that the fans need to turn down the heat on the players - they are making dumb (freshman) mistakes and not supporting them is just going to make them worse, not better.

But Pelphrey should bear a large part of the blame for our winless start in conference.  If 'Bama beats us, then there's going to be he!! to pay, and I can't see any reason why we shouldn't be prepared to beat the Tide with some decent coaching.

I'm willing to give Pel through spring of 2011, but I also reserve the right to criticize the man if I think I see some mistakes.  He's earning enough money to know that it comes with the job.

[HogBreath]

I am pissed off as everyone else about the 0-4 SEC start, but our fanbase has exhibited more behavioral volatility than a meth addict over the past 2 months.  First, we are resigned to a season of misery since we have to replace 85% of our scoring, 80% of our rebounding and assists (thanks STAN HEATH, not John Pelphrey), then we are wraught with anxiety about losing our head coach to Kentucky after the revival of hogball, and 3 weeks later we are trying to organize a mutiny.  Sweet Jesus...calm down, take a valium, go play with your kids.  It's exhausting listening to this myopic ranting, which is usually followed up by some ridiculous "eating crow" post that you think compensates for your months of needless bitching.

Wally Hall makes 3 legitimate points this morning, surprisingly without having to dip into his stash of 4th grade similies:

1.  Realistically, this is John Pelphrey's first year (when he got here in 2007, recruiting was already done for 2008...it's a miracle we pulled in Sanchez.) 
2.  Since we are starting 3 freshmen, we are going to be inconsistent.  Fact. 
3.  It takes 3 years to build a program.

Look at those 3 points.  Digest them.  Respect them.  Now accept them because they aren't going to change.  And in 2 years...maybe even next year...you will look back and appreciate them.

In response to Wally's 3 points....

1.  I'm not sure I'd label landing Sanchez a miracle.

2. So far in SEC play, we have been very consistent.  Consistently awful though.

3.  I can hold on another year or two. 

[deucea729]

Cork, thanks for the most well-reasoned thread I have seen on this forum since the losing started. 

I was at my wits' end this past weekend after seeing the Auburn debacle.  But the mistake that many of us have been making is to base our outlook for the rest of the season off of our last game.  After the MO State loss, how many folks thought we would go undefeated the rest of the non-conference schedule? 

I am in no way suggesting that we'll win out, or that we'll even have a postseason bid of any sort.  But I am all but certain that this drought will pass, and we will not go 0-16 in SEC play as some chicken littles have suggested.

[roundball]

4-12 is a realistic possibility for this team, but so is 0-16 but not likely..

[Razorod]

to me the issue isn't so much what record we finish with. Pretty obvious it will be somewhere between 4-12 to 0-16. the question to me is, does pel keep his team. at the end of his third season it was pretty obvious that Heath lost the team going into the SEC tourney. difference this year is that thing are coming unraveled much earlier.

if he loses the team, i don't know what you do. some poster are suggesting that certain players may already be tuning pel out. i know internet rumors are exactly that--rumors--but sometimes where there is smoke. . .

i think the bama game will be telling. how hard do they play? are they able to correct the mistakes they've been making over the past four games?

mainly rambling, but am interested in how they look against bama.

[rude1]

I am pissed off as everyone else about the 0-4 SEC start, but our fanbase has exhibited more behavioral volatility than a meth addict over the past 2 months.  First, we are resigned to a season of misery since we have to replace 85% of our scoring, 80% of our rebounding and assists (thanks STAN HEATH, not John Pelphrey), then we are wraught with anxiety about losing our head coach to Kentucky after the revival of hogball, and 3 weeks later we are trying to organize a mutiny.  Sweet Jesus...calm down, take a valium, go play with your kids.  It's exhausting listening to this myopic ranting, which is usually followed up by some ridiculous "eating crow" post that you think compensates for your months of needless bitching.

Wally Hall makes 3 legitimate points this morning, surprisingly without having to dip into his stash of 4th grade similies:

1.  Realistically, this is John Pelphrey's first year (when he got here in 2007, recruiting was already done for 2008...it's a miracle we pulled in Sanchez.) 
2.  Since we are starting 3 freshmen, we are going to be inconsistent.  Fact. 
3.  It takes 3 years to build a program.

Look at those 3 points.  Digest them.  Respect them.  Now accept them because they aren't going to change.  And in 2 years...maybe even next year...you will look back and appreciate them.

Nice try but youth doesn't account for the terrible free fall we are currently witnessing with the basketball program. It's one thing to lose your first four conference games, it is quite another to lose three of them to teams who are probably at the middle to bottom of the conference, and yet still quite another to lose two of those at home. There is no spinning this situation out of the responsibility of Pel. He was the hero when things were going good, so he is currently the goat for not having this team ready to play. Now the question has to be asked, who exactly can this team beat on the road? You kinda thought they would struggle on the road, youth accounts for that, but to lose badly at home, the youth excuse doesn't cut it.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

UPDATE:   thanks Wally Hall for snapping me out of my one day delirium of thinking you were a decent writer by starting today's article with a Webster's dictionary quote.  My third grade teacher would be so disappointed.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

In response to Wally's 3 points....

1.  I'm not sure I'd label landing Sanchez a miracle.

2. So far in SEC play, we have been very consistent.  Consistently awful though.

3.  I can hold on another year or two. 

In response:

1.  I didn't say Sanchez himself was a miracle.  I meant that it was a miracle Pelphrey was able to reel in a 4* recruit (Scout #17 player at his position) when he was hired in APRIL to salvage a decent class.  This was a mere 5 months before the season started, impressive since 4* recruits are locked up 12-24 months in advance in bball these days.  And that wasn't supposed to be a compliment to Pelphrey, it was to point out how, for the 2nd time in 3 years, Stan Heath failed to recruit a competitive class...leaving his predecessor with a team bereft of talent.

2.  In the past 4 weeks they have beaten two top 10 teams and endured a (ongoing) 4 game losing streak.  Seems like the pinnacle of inconsistency.  There is no doubt the rollercoaster will continue the rest of the season.  Mark down a few upsets and a few more underachieving losses.  That's what you get when you start 3 freshmen and rely heavily on 3 more off the bench.

3.  Good, you will be rewarded. 


What's even more frustrating about the criticism, is that if we hadn't beat OU or Texas, we would all still be in the mindset of the pre-season where we were reserved to a season of learning.  We seemed to have a pretty good grasp on reality not 6 weeks ago...losses still sting but they are serving a higher purpose, setting our foundation for the future.  But the upsets propelled us into thinking that the future was now, which is just not realistic with a team full of freshmen.

[Razorod]

do appreciate the call for patience on here; but there is cause for concern.

1. Does Washington come back next year? Thread on here that shows him as a first round draft pick according to one of the mock draft services. I know that is not overly reliable, but also remember that Washington is in his fourth year away from hs. he was a fifth year prep at Genesis.
2. Does Fortson come back? could leave for a variety of reasons. may or may not be a bad thing. depends on who you believe on this board.
3. Do Powell and Borden get eligible? Probably doesn't matter with Borden as he is project anyway. Powell could contribute and if Washington does opt out, would be essential next year.
4. 2010 recruiting class. scroll down the top 100 lists and you won't see Arkansas beside many names. Still time, but if downward spiral continues less and less likely that pel will be able to convince any players to come here that he already doesn't have a strong relationship with--and that doesn't appear to be many players.

Now Washington sure could use another year and he may take it; Fortson may stay and mature and become the pg he's capable of being next year, Henry gets healthy, Powell and Farmer are eligible and next year provides a 20 win season. Pel gets Luke Cothron to come and at least one other nice player for 2010 and all that bridges us over to the monster 2011 in-state recruiting year.

To me the key is Pel demonstrating the rest of the season that he is in charge and that the players are buying in. If the players aren't buying into Pel and his system, then I think it more likely that Washington and Fortson are gone after this season and we're looking at more of the same next year.

[HognotinMemphis]

That is good advice for fans of Hog basketball. Regardless, it's very difficult to reconcile the 4 SEC games played so far with the 2 games against OU and Texas. Doesn't make any sense and you can't blame it on inconsistency.

[LamarMundane]

That is good advice for fans of Hog basketball. Regardless, it's very difficult to reconcile the 4 SEC games played so far with the 2 games against OU and Texas. Doesn't make any sense and you can't blame it on inconsistency.

I blame it on scouting. Teams know how to play Arkansas now, after watching those two games, which got everyone's attention. And I have no doubt there is some discouragement going on now, because we can't do anything about it, seemingly.

[mhuff]

I, along with others, overrated the incoming BB players. The fact that McDonald left and Henry is hurt does not help. Despite the losses I realize now that it will take time to mold a team. I will always think that no less than three years is appropriate in being fair to a coach. I have faith in Pel's recruiting abilities and in his coaching ability. Let's be behind this team no matter what. You can't read negative statements and want to come to Arkansas. There are a lot of excellent players out there watching to see how much Arkansas fans support their team. Now is the time to see who the real Arkansas fans are.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

I, along with others, overrated the incoming BB players. The fact that McDonald left and Henry is hurt does not help.

Absolutely critical.  Payne's grade issues were a huge blow to this squad.  Welsh and Clarke should be rotating at the 2.  Instead they are both playing - one of them at the 3 - and it makes us so small on the court.  We can't defend the perimeter, we can't press.  Also, they are both shooting guards, we have no slasher combo forward.  We have no one to control the game at the high post when we get zoned.

Ultimately Pel is responsible for the team he puts on this court.  But we would be a vastly more dangerous team with Beverly at the 3 and Payne at the 4.  And that's even true with a healthy Henry and an attitude-adjusted McDonald.   Size really dictates your strategy.  I'm ready for Pel to catch a few breaks....which will hopefully come in the shape of Washington, Fortson, and Powell all playing for us next year.  If that happens, I think we will turn enough heads to ignite some serious recruiting momentum.