worst "locker room" chemistry ever

[mathhog]

pull the plug on him, pel!

[3kgthog]

It's going to take the players taking control of their own team before things will get better. A leader needs to step up.

[Kevin]

who should he pull the plug on

[Hawgon]

Yeah, but that guy is best buds with Fortson and has gotten into his head as well.  I'm convinced Fortson thinks he is one and done and he is just trying to showcase his "mad skills" so he can get into the League.

[Hawgon]

+999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999

*chuck e cheeze pizza bells & alarms goes off*

We have a winner!!!!!!!

One doesn't have to be a scientific rocket to figure it out.

[PigSnort]

Is he really thinking this way or are you just assuming from the selfish play?

[Hot_Town_Hog]

someone else thinks they are playing their way to the pros, at a major detriment to the team... sigh...

The only player on this team that would get a shot in the NBA at this point is Washington. Anyone else on the team that thinks they have a shot at this stage in their career is sadly mistaken. Someone needs to set them straight if that is how any of them are thinking.

[Hawgon]

The only player on this team that would get a shot in the NBA at this point is Washington. Anyone else on the team that thinks they have a shot at this stage in their career is sadly mistaken. Someone needs to set them straight if that is how any of them are thinking.

Dude, what does Coach Pel know?  He wasn't good enough for the League.  darn, he cain't do what I do.  That country mother just needs to go on back to the log cabin and lets us plays some ball.

[elksnort]

It appears that you could be correct. But how are you so certain? Do you know team members or coaches?

[cardinalhawg]

pull the plug on him, pel!

I think it is obvious who you are talking about, but to be on the safe side, I am guessing that you are talking about a player who logged 36 minutes today and mentioned the youth of the team being a factor in the road loss to Ole Miss, despite a less than stellar performance by himself.

When this player is shooting well and playing more within a team concept, I enjoy watching him play, but too often his play and the allowing of it to go on by the coaching staff has made me lose some interest in watching the Hogs play at the current time.

[chiefsfan]

It appears that you could be correct. But how are you so certain? Do you know team members or coaches?

its been talked about since the Missouri State loss.   got quieted during the 10 game win streak, and is awake yet again

[Conway Hog]

I think Pel has lost the team...don't know if he can get them back...especially when you say that the coaching staff is allowing it to happen

[FaytownHog]

i agree. i hate it in a way, but there is CLEARLY a problem. its not even a maybe. just look at the freakin record, and let it speak for itself. i think ATLEAST a suspension should be put out, for a couple weeks, or whatever it takes. give him a chance to let people know your not playing around about winning, and being a team, bc that's what it takes when your getting out talented in most of these games. if he doesn't change, cut him loose. maybe pbev can get him a spot on the roster over seas. we saw it today, when we got down big, we just stopped even caring with 8 minutes left, and that's unexceptable.

pull the plug on him, pel!

[chiefsfan]

I think Pel has lost the team...don't know if he can get them back...especially when you say that the coaching staff is allowing it to happen

I wouldnt say he has lost the team.  I just think he might have lost a player or two who have gotten a rather large head maybe

the problem is, with only 8 scholarship players or so, pulling the plug means Stephen Cox is our #4 guard.   If its a forward thats the problem pulling the plug there means we might have 1 bench player if Moore ever gets his act together

Henry Moore and Clark havent panned out this year, so going to any of them could be just as bad.

In terms of hypotheticals this bad apple may be ruining the bunch, but getting rid of the bad apple may equal an 0-16 conference season

[The Boar War]

In terms of hypotheticals this bad apple may be ruining the bunch, but getting rid of the bad apple may equal an 0-16 conference season

Do you see a better record with the starters we have now?  Our best chance is either against Ole Miss or Alabama.  Yes that may be a little drastic but we just got pummeled by a much less talented Auburn team.

[elksnort]

The bottom line is that a once powerful basketball program, has to talk about next year.

[Ross U (HDHF)]

I wouldnt say he has lost the team.  I just think he might have lost a player or two who have gotten a rather large head maybe

the problem is, with only 8 scholarship players or so, pulling the plug means Stephen Cox is our #4 guard.   If its a forward thats the problem pulling the plug there means we might have 1 bench player if Moore ever gets his act together

Henry Moore and Clark havent panned out this year, so going to any of them could be just as bad.

In terms of hypotheticals this bad apple may be ruining the bunch, but getting rid of the bad apple may equal an 0-16 conference season

Looks like the result of the season will be the same either way.  I agree about our depth, but if it's six-to-one half-dozen-the-other I say pull the plug and let the cards fall where they may.  I'd rather lose as a team with no depth than watch us completely give up with 8 minutes to go in the game. 

[jst01]

You guys talkin about Grape Juice?? 

[donewithdale]

Why the hell don't you just say "kick Welsh off the team"?  This board has gotten ridiculous with this 'insider' knowledge that Welsh has destroyed this team.  If that makes you feel better about our current situation vs the reality that we don't have anywhere close to the players needed to win at the level we expect then go ahead.  I guess that can be soothing to think, "if we could just rid ourselves of that guy then our chemistry will be better and we will start winning like we want."  whatever

[Hot_Town_Hog]

Without Welsh we don't beat OK or Texass. He was also key in the SECT last year. Maybe there is something going on that most are unaware, but to blame this all on one player is grasping at best.

[cityhog]

pull the plug on him, pel!

pull the plug on who?  Welsh?  He was the only thing happening today.

[BayofPigs]

no need to blame one single player when the whole teams plays uninspired like that.
we have a coach who we pay plenty of money to prepare this team to the fullest.

[JoePaul03]

I'm not questioning anyone's knowledge or sources, or trying to be a jerk, but what is the source and where has the idea that certain people on the team are "cancers" coming from? Are there some old threads or something I could read to catch me up?

Again, not trying to be a contrarian; the wife is pregnant and I've had a really busy schedule lately, so I'd like to get kind of caught up on what's going on and glean some insight as to why we're falling apart like a cheap used car.

[The Hogfather]

You guys talkin about Grape Juice??

+1   

[hogsndawgs]

The bottom line is that a once powerful basketball program, has to talk about next year.

We've been doing that for...like 10 years now! SSDD

[Razorvet]

They wont kick it out to open players.

Fort drives straight to the basket without any awareness to what is taking place around him ( which is intentional if you base his abilities on the non conference).

Post play is solid but Washington cant hit a free throw for his moms life. Those are free points.

Rotnie is just not getting any open looks.

Play is sloppy. I keep hearing "the shots just arent falling". Funny thing is they dont fall for most people. But when your getting a full ride to an SEC school your shots should fall bc you put them where they belong.

And I cant even comment on some BB players passing the ball like Casey Dick only to be intercepted at a critical point in the game.

Auburn is a bad team. And this should never have happened.

[hogchick26]

They wont kick it out to open players.

Fort drives straight to the basket without any awareness to what is taking place around him ( which is intentional if you base his abilities on the non conference).

Post play is solid but Washington cant hit a free throw for his moms life. Those are free points.

Rotnie is just not getting any open looks.

Play is sloppy. I keep hearing "the shots just arent falling". Funny thing is they dont fall for most people. But when your getting a full ride to an SEC school your shots should fall bc you put them where they belong.

And I cant even comment on some BB players passing the ball like Casey Dick only to be intercepted at a critical point in the game.

Auburn is a bad team. And this should never have happened.

Just one thing I would disagree with you, Vet.

IMO, Rotnei got some open looks, but he passes the ball off. I counted at least 4 looks he could have tried to make something happen, but he passed instead. He needs to learn to take those passes off the curl and SHOOT, since it appears that teams know his capability as a shooter. This is just my observation.

[Earl]

Quoting from todays ADG..."Welsh broke into questions asked of other Arkansas players, grew indignant when asked if he thought the Razorbacks were playing as hard now--during an 0-4 start in SEC play--as they did while going 12-1 in nonconference play and issued an apology to Hog fans".

[cardinalhawg]

pull the plug on who?  Welsh?  He was the only thing happening today.

5-14 from the field.  There were other guys not hitting much either, but 4-12 from three point range and 5-14 from the field is not exactly happening.  I would much rather see his point total be lower, with less shots taken and more assists.  He does have the ability to create shots for others, if he chooses to do so, but right now he is looking to go one on one and shoot almost every time he touches the ball.  I think that this type of play throws the whole team off.

I do not like to be critical of just one player so much, and yes there are others not playing well either, but his play appears to be a way to selfish IMO. 

[heathtits]

All this hush hush is almost as funny as Brad Pitt in Burn After Reading. "Your darn is SAFE".

All you "cancer" conspirators answer me this. If Welsh or deepthroat or rumpelstiltskin is such a cancer, why is he still playing so many minutes?

Don't ya think at this point, with nothing more to lose, the coach would sit "deepthroat" on the pine? He sat a whopping total of 4 minutes against Auburn.

These posts are tireless.

[hillhog]

The first thing that upset me in Sat game was a Fortson pass down court to Welsh, ball hit the floor in front of him, he watched the ball bounce twice I think and go out of bounds without making ANY effort to get to it. If he had tried he would have had no trouble getting the ball, plenty of time/room. Didn't change his pace at all. And no, he wasn't going full speed. That gave me a bad feeling about the games future.

[SECGUY]

Too many guys went out the night before. Search on that one. No half court offense; shot clock getting down with no true option. Washington is playing un-inspired; Fortson is Gary Ervin/Kareem Reid after a 3 day binge. His decision making is awful right now. Rotnei is getting enough looks-that doesn't mean more shots-that means more looks at the basket so his shot selection is better. Welsh is Welsh. I wish we were in the Big 12.

[donewithdale]

The first thing that upset me in Sat game was a Fortson pass down court to Welsh, ball hit the floor in front of him, he watched the ball bounce twice I think and go out of bounds without making ANY effort to get to it. If he had tried he would have had no trouble getting the ball, plenty of time/room. Didn't change his pace at all. And no, he wasn't going full speed. That gave me a bad feeling about the games future.

About what minute mark of which half? 

[HawgAdvocate]

Dude, what does Coach Pel know?  He wasn't good enough for the League.  crap, he cain't do what I do.  That country mother just needs to go on back to the log cabin and lets us plays some ball.

It appears that you could be correct. But how are you so certain? Do you know team members or coaches?

Hawgon has no sources. He's just the guy that shows up to preach fire and brimstone when the Hogs don't win. He's the guy who knows basketball better than everyone else ever born, including everyone in the Razorback program. He's the guy who would coach the perfect team to an undefeated season without breaking a sweat.

All revel in his glory.

[Hog4Ever09]

Welsh is the only experienced player on this team with Washington, you can't pull the plug on him.  Have you heard all those big crashes on the floor the past few games?  That's Welsh's body.  He goes all out, and he's probably beat up by now.  I mean, he landed straight on his back on Saturday afternoon, and had to be helped off the floor.  Luckily I think he just got the wind knocked out of him, but if he had been injured none of this talk would be happening.  We'd be discussing how much more we're going to suck if he's not on the floor.

I don't know why he didn't chase after the ball when CF threw it to him.  He could've easily gotten it, but he's human.  We make mistakes.

Fort isn't tall enough to make the league even if he's an amazing PG.  His best chance will be overseas, so he just needs to get the idea that he's a hot shot out of his mind.  He's starting to play like Gary Ervin and making me angry.  He's a much better PG than Welsh, but that's because that's all he's ever played.  Welsh had to upgrade to backup PG after Bev left, so he's not going to be as stellar as CF.

They need to work as a team.  You cannot blame our slump on one person.  You blame it one person, you're blaming the team.  One person cannot revive our season, someone does need to step up and be a leader in the locker room, but you have to turn the season around as a team, not depending on one person.

[razorback93]

Do you see a better record with the starters we have now?  Our best chance is either against Ole Miss or Alabama.  Yes that may be a little drastic but we just got pummeled by a much less talented Auburn team.

I would disagree that Auburn is less talented.  They may not be great BBall players, but they are ath-uh-let-ic.  Some of those dudes looked like football players, not proverbial 98 pound weaklings.

[touchdownark]

It's going to take the players taking control of their own team before things will get better. A leader needs to step up.

the question is who is the leader because no one has steped up

[Hawgon]

Hawgon has no sources. He's just the guy that shows up to preach fire and brimstone when the Hogs don't win. He's the guy who knows basketball better than everyone else ever born, including everyone in the Razorback program. He's the guy who would coach the perfect team to an undefeated season without breaking a sweat.

All revel in his glory.

Given our recent lack of success, who has been more correct in his assessment of the team, you or I?  Hmmm?

If I'm just the guy who "preaches fire and brimstone" you're Polly Positive who never sees a problem even when said problem is standing in front of you and knocking you up the side of your head with its 10 inch penus.

These players are easy to read.  They are playing for themselves and no one else.  That is painfully obvious and it has been for a good long while.

[HawgAdvocate]

Given our recent lack of success, who has been more correct in his assessment of the team, you or I?  Hmmm?

If I'm just the guy who "preaches fire and brimstone" you're Polly Positive who never sees a problem even when said problem is standing in front of you and knocking you up the side of your head with its 10 inch penus.

These players are easy to read.  They are playing for themselves and no one else.  That is painfully obvious and it has been for a good long while.

[CENSORED] is spelled with an i, not a u. If you had one, I'd bet you'd know how to spell it.

I've been telling you all along that you're way to smart to be posting here. I can't believe you haven't marched into Bud Walton and taken over the team by now, seeing how you can make every assessment after it's already happened before your eyes (and everyone elses'). If only Pel had that same luxury.

You were nowhere to be seen when we beat OK and Texas. When this team gets back on track, you'll disappear again. And when they lose you'll be back blaming everyone but your mancrush Rotnei, as usual.

Instead of blaming everyone under the sun, except you know who, you should step back and admit to yourself that no one guaranteed us a proven winner this season. We've gotten more early on than we should have expected, and opposing teams have made the right adjustments to stifle what few offensive and defensive strengths we had.

This wasn't a dominant recruiting class quality-wise. It had a few good pieces, but we have no interior depth, no solid rebounder except Washington, no experienced PG, and no size on the perimeter...all the while Pel has a team full of kids who can't act their age yet.

And somehow you've managed to throw Pel and the entire team, except you know who, in the trash. Way to go Hawgon.

Please let us all know when you're ready to take over and lead this brand new team, that has no depth and no experience, to the promised land.

[Hawgon]

**** is spelled with an i, not a u. If you had one, I'd bet you'd know how to spell it.

And if I had spelled it that way, it wouldn't have made it past the censor feature, genius.

[BigHog396]

About what minute mark of which half? 

If you didn't see it, you weren't watching the game.  It was absolutely pathetic, and just another example of his issues.  And yes, his attitude problems have been reported by many people.  A rather well known local business man got to travel with the team to the Florida game.  He said Welsh is a complete cancer, and one of the biggest babies he has ever been around.

The choice is simple, keep having the chemistry problems we are having with him around... or kick his butt out the door and suffer the consequences of not having any depth to replace him.  We are pretty much screwed either way, but the kid is a complete problem child on this team.

[donewithdale]

If you didn't see it, you weren't watching the game.  It was absolutely pathetic, and just another example of his issues.  And yes, his attitude problems have been reported by many people.  A rather well known local business man got to travel with the team to the Florida game.  He said Welsh is a complete cancer, and one of the biggest babies he has ever been around.

The choice is simple, keep having the chemistry problems we are having with him around... or kick his butt out the door and suffer the consequences of not having any depth to replace him.  We are pretty much screwed either way, but the kid is a complete problem child on this team.

Tell me when it happened.  First or 2nd half? 

And I get it, Welsh isn't a team player and should be off the team.  That isn't going to solve all of the problems.  But I guess it will make some feel better.

[Hawgon]

Tell me when it happened.  First or 2nd half? 

And I get it, Welsh isn't a team player and should be off the team.  That isn't going to solve all of the problems.  But I guess it will make some feel better.

I saw it.  It was in the first half.  Welsh thought the pass was to someone else and let it go by him.  But it was a really slow pass and he could have easily caught up to it.  He didn't.  He just watched it bounce out of bounds and then patted his chest as if to say "My bad".  It was strange.  My dad and I both commented on it.

[donewithdale]

I saw it.  It was in the first half.  Welsh thought the pass was to someone else and let it go by him.  But it was a really slow pass and he could have easily caught up to it.  He didn't.  He just watched it bounce out of bounds and then patted his chest as if to say "My bad".  It was strange.  My dad and I both commented on it.

Well just watched from the 1st tv timeout to halftime.  So it must have been before the 1st tv timeout as I didn't get that 1st 4 minutes DVR'ed.  After that, I saw Welsh extend himself for numerous errant passes mostly from Fortson and ended up flat on his back while trying to give help defense in the post.  Didn't see any more of a lack effort from him as anyone else. 


I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how getting rid of him will solve the problems.  Is it going to make our other guards taller or quicker or Sanchez more athletic or help Henry's knee or make Andre Clark a contributor?

[al2305]

I know this isnt the whole problem, but has anybody realized we 're down to 7 players, 4 freshmen and 3 players that didnt play much last year.  I think that has something to do with the outcome of these games.  Seems like every game we lose someone else.  This last game we lost Monk and Henry.  Cant win with 7 players who ve never played together.

[arkmark]

And your not going to win games with 8 players who've stopped playing together.
I have no idea what the heck happened to this team after the OK/Texass wins but this is not simply a team shooting slump.  Watch any of the 4 SEC games and you see players standing around on the offensive end because they know they're not going to get a touch.  Offensive "plays" predictably are going to be largely no pass or one pass shots.  I can't even recall even a small stretch of time in a game where you could sit back and watch any indication at all of set plays being run or even attempted.  Playground ball is what you get and I don't believe for a minute that Pel coaches that garbage.  Any team in this league will have no trouble defensing that and you saw Auburn eat it up and spit it out in the Hog's faces.
The Fort to Welsh pass at the beginning of the 1st half was just amazing. Someone said, he's human, he made a mistake.  That was no mistake, a mistake is a bad pass, or a dribble off a foot.  Welsh's absence of effort was indifference or a message plain and simple either way.
It was also said here that if Pel were to take an action to remove a certain player that with the numbers we would likely not win another game.  I think it's pretty obvious that unless takes back control of this mess by whatever means necessary, and if the Auburn game is a preview, we won't anyway.

[donewithdale]

And your not going to win games with 8 players who've stopped playing together.
I have no idea what the heck happened to this team after the OK/Texass wins but this is not simply a team shooting slump.  Watch any of the 4 SEC games and you see players standing around on the offensive end because they know they're not going to get a touch.  Offensive "plays" predictably are going to be largely no pass or one pass shots.  I can't even recall even a small stretch of time in a game where you could sit back and watch any indication at all of set plays being run or even attempted.  Playground ball is what you get and I don't believe for a minute that Pel coaches that garbage.  Any team in this league will have no trouble defensing that and you saw Auburn eat it up and spit it out in the Hog's faces.
The Fort to Welsh pass at the beginning of the 1st half was just amazing. Someone said, he's human, he made a mistake.  That was no mistake, a mistake is a bad pass, or a dribble off a foot.  Welsh's absence of effort was indifference or a message plain and simple either way.
It was also said here that if Pel were to take an action to remove a certain player that with the numbers we would likely not win another game.  I think it's pretty obvious that unless takes back control of this mess by whatever means necessary, and if the Auburn game is a preview, we won't anyway.

Yesterday around the 8 min mark in the second half, Pel called a timeout.  Out of the timeout, he had Wash at the top of the key and Sanchez in the post.  The ball went to Wash to Sanchez out to I believe Welsh who was open after the inside out ball reversal and hit a 3 to cut into Auburn's lead.  The next trip down, we ran a similar set but with Sanchez and Wash reversed.  Sanchez fed Wash down low who was fouled.  So yes, we run set offensive plays.  And if Welsh didn't give effort, how do you explain the play when he was hurt when he took on an AU frontcourt player at the basket? 

[Hog4Ever09]

I know this isnt the whole problem, but has anybody realized we 're down to 7 players, 4 freshmen and 3 players that didnt play much last year.  I think that has something to do with the outcome of these games.  Seems like every game we lose someone else.  This last game we lost Monk and Henry.  Cant win with 7 players who ve never played together.

I do think that is a bigger factor in these losses than some people are giving it.  Given, we had Moore/Monk in the Miss/State/Florida games, and still lost.  I would say it was a huge factor in the Auburn game, we'll have to see how it pans out.

[arkmark]

Done, my comment about Welsh's effort was in regards to the play early in the first half and not about a lack of effort throughout the game.  I give Welsh his due for the effort he made which resulted in his falling hard on his back.  Had you seen the play I refer too, I think you may have been scratching you head like a lot of others who have made their WTH comments.
And yes you can cite some plays be run on occasion, but I still believe, and I think many would agree, that the team has lost it discipline, that there is way too much freelancing going on and that that is what will keep this team from putting it back together until Pel gets a handle on it, however, that gets done.

[songofthesword]

i think if pel doesn't get him off he is setting a bad prescident and being inconsistant.